New Year Balls Delayed by a Day
In a very interesting development all (at least according to my sources) New Year balls which were scheduled today on New Years eve have been delayed by one day as it seems the Core Commander Karachi has informed the organisers that the team of Rangers would be unavailable to extend their security protocol late into the night as the jawans have to offer early morning prayers themselves.
It now seems that tickets have become a hot commodity especially from those who were a little reluctant to join the drinking festival on Chaad Raat, now the its probably an even better excuse to dance away the Eid celebrations, who cares about 2007, its the drinking and dancing that’s more important (am I too sarcastic)
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sarcasm is the way to go doc. looks like i am not the only sarcastic one around hehe. anyway these balls (lolz at balls) are just an excuse for the rich to drink like fish. hmm wonder what they do on other days? funny how they become so moralistic coz new year’s eve is on chand raat. drink your “Sorrows” away people.
What’s wrong in it if they’re not harming anyone but themselves by drinking, smoking and staying up late at night?
It’s a good thing that govt. is providing security and I hope they’ll stop anyone one who are drunk from driving.
Uff, typical karachi people worried about others drinking and having a good time…if someone chooses to drink, what is the big deal? I say, open up just as many bars in karachi as there are mosques and just as many clubs as there are madarsa’s! Investors…any? Eello?
My uncle says that “if you’re ashamed of something don’t do it and if you do then don’t feel ashamed”.
When will we learn to act like mature,responsible adults.No one has the right to impose his thoughts or way of life on me in the name of creating a puritan society.Are Turks or Malaysians any less muslims than us.It’s only here that this danda brand of Islam is creating problems both locally and hinderance to creating a softer image elsewhere.Suppression only helps in spreading the “evil”(which of course is normalcy to some).I think it’s time that we should stop overblowing this new year issue wether for political reasons or any other logic.The corps commander has the important task of protecting the country,you should have the guts to follow and live the life the way you want it as long as you are not stepping on my toes.
Who’s selling the Halwa? Saalay ka band bajanay ka.
As everyone is too busy in teaching others morals while forgetting what their responsibity is religiously and morally. If they do then we too be self sustain like Malasyia and Turkey and don’t forget UAE and most middle east countries who are very active in bussiness world.
Think outside the shell so most people can benefit from it.
wow. i am amazed by the comments posted here in response to boshe’s ridiculous statement.
the kmb is obviously becoming a better, more open minded place.
keep it up.
“Amar Bilmaroof Wanahiunil Munkir”
gee i guess someone doesn’t know a thing about sarcasm. oh yeah i forgot open minded is all about being hedonistic and doing cool stuff. silly me for voicing my opinion which was soooooo ridiculous. by the way i don’t care about people who drink. its their gunaah not mine. you don’t see me going around pleading with people to stop in the name of God. drinking is just an excuse for people (read:cowards who cant deal with their problems )to calm their nerves down. interesting how security is being provided to people at their balls while the common man has to worry about being mugged and carjacked. give a round of applause to all those brave security men who are working hard to protect the elite. why our country would be lost without them and their socializing? infact we should pool all our resources and make sure they are always happy.the only problem with our people is that they are hypocrites. they love to drink while pretending to be great Muslims. i am not asking for a suspension to parties and drinking. people will drink no matter what.
Didn’t mean to look like Maulana Akhlaaqiyaat or Daada Jaan.Enjoy life to the fullest but not at somebody else’s grief or creating problems for others.
its simply amazes me… hellbent to justify some thing thats wrong… “countries like Malaysia and Turkey do it so why shouldn’t we”… its more like the case of “kawa chala hans ki chal apni chal bhi bhol gya” these people will continue to do stupid things in the name of trend,fashion and enjoyment…
Saying from Prophet Mohammed (sal-Allaahu ‘alayhe wa sallam) that if One see some thing wrong/bad happening he should stop it by force(hand) if one isn’t so influential(powerful) then one should verbally raise his voice against such wrongdoing and if even thats not possible then atleast think of it as a wrong and sinful act in his heart… thats the last degree of iman one can have… anything below that threshold person is no more a muslim…
but who cares most of em are only muslims for namesake and society pressure..they’re the case of Adha teetar Adha Batair
If they drink and are not a hinderance to anybody else then let them drink. If they are not sure about their religious beliefs then its their concern, not ours.
The thing with us is that we usually lead a very boring life (or good life) as some may say. Being bad is the new mantra, and actually where all the fun is. I have actually seen people boasting off their bad habits (everybody knows drinking, smoking etc. are not exactly good habits).
as long as they don’t drink and drive!
I wonder if Pakis were lesser Muslims pre-1977? Whether everyone was roaming around drunk then? I think we should trust adults to make their own decisions about their eating and ‘drinking’ habits as well as their preferred life styles.
The politically-motivated prohibition on late 70s only resulted in creating a booming boot-legging business and a thriving heroin market (no one had heard of the damn drug before the “Islamization” of our nation)in our wretched country.
Doctor: I hope you are familiar with the phrase; “Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone.” Better not have a religion police (aka Hasba Bill. Please don’t drag our country to the utopia toyed liberally (no pun intended) and unsuccessfully by the Taliban across the Durand Line. Turkey is certainly better than the Talibanic Afghanistan. Let us copy a better example. What is the “chaal” of the Paki “Kawas” by the way?
Oh, one more thing, religion is a tool of the fool. Let us confine our religion to our private lives and be rational and realistic in our debates.
At least people who go around drinking and dancing dont go and blow up innocent people in mosques and imambarghas. If one wants to have a good time let them, its that kind of narrow minded religiousity which made Pakistani society religiously and ethnically divided today.
Yes we should stop bad things by force. Drinking is the least of all the bad things in our society but surprisingly one of the only ones that anyone tries to stop. Pretty weird priorities.
How in the world does someone connect drinking to ‘cant deal with their problems’? What a jahil!
Security is being provided because it is paid for! b/c of morons that try to get into parties that they have no passes/access to! They should be sent to jail for these attempts.
Drinking has ABSOLUTLY NOTHING to do with being a good/bad person. Stick your head out of that tunnel that you’ve been looking into. As far as being a bad Muslim goes, you have no right to judge, only God does so stop judging because you’re insulting God by doing so yourself! Reading some of the posts above truly make it obvious why Muslims are still stuck in the stone age, let alone Pakistan, what a shame!
i seriously dont understand what people have against drinking and dancing. everyone is there to have a good time. nobody is stripping naked in front of you, or being a courtesan. they’re drinking to enjoy. they’re not doing anything to anyone else. why does it matter? they’re old enough to realise whats the harm in drinking. as long as no one is drunk driving and a threat to another its all good.
and its all about having fun. we dont have a problem with your ways of life. why do u have a problem with the others’?
It now seems that tickets have become a hot commodity especially from those who were a little reluctant to join the drinking festival on Chaad Raat, now the its probably an even better excuse to dance away the Eid celebrations, who cares about 2007, its the drinking and dancing that’s more important (am I too sarcastic)
A little too presumtous, arent we? :/ Nice way of reporting (sarcasm).
looks like there are pretty open minded muslims here who dont know drinking ,dancing and such stuff is clearly prohibited in islam.
When these things aer started to go public, we r gona face tsunami or an earth quake or any thing like that. This is clearly stated in Islam.
i dont know y we do such things while still claiming jannat (heavens).
Anon and Anathema , We didnt take Pakistan for drinking and dancing and doing such nude stuff. We didnt sacrifice 6 hundred thousand ppl to get a place for getting drunk.
Better keep these things to ur self. Dont tempt others at least
who’s tempting? did i say this is what we’re doing and whats it to u?
we didn sacrificce anything to sit at home and sulk either
where can I get the passes for the ball ??
“drinking ,dancing and such stuff is clearly prohibited in islam.”
The drinking bit i’m sort of sure of but pray tell, where does it say anything about “dancing and stuff”.
Honestly Shahzad, I also don’t think the country sacrificed to become a nation of prudes who are scared even to smile. For me personally, Islam is not a religion of fear as you seem to portray it.
Moreover, on a personal level, I’m not a drinker (mainly due to health reasons), but I don’t see any harm done if I had a few last night in order to welcome in the new year. I was with a group of close friends in a private home. I acted responsibly by choosing to stay the night over at said friend’s home and not risk hurting myself or others by being on the roads and freeways on new years eve. If i sinned, well then that’s between me and my God and I don’t see how that should affect you or an entire nation.
We ate, we drank, we danced and had a safe new years night. The couple of glasses of cristal at midnight were sparkling and bubbly and caressed the throat as they went down but I have to tell you, one has not lived until one has tried some Grey Goose vodka with cranberry juice and just a splash of freshly squeezed orange juice with a wedge of lime served in a tall glass over crushed ice. Mmmm, my lips are puckering as I type.
Live and let live! Jeo aur jeenay do!
“some Grey Goose vodka with cranberry juice and just a splash of freshly squeezed orange juice with a wedge of lime served in a tall glass over crushed ice”
TRUE THAT!!
or better than…plain old johnnie walker on the rocks!
to drink or not to drink! is surely a topic for debate in our society nowadays. It cannot be debated on kmb but because its like a forum so one can express his/her views on it.
In this era of science and technology people have forgotten the very fact that human mind has its own limitations. One cannot think what others can think and all of us even collectively cannot think what allah knows alone.
for those people who think that drinking smokin and similar activites are personal issues and no one else than the person doing it should be bothered about it than they are mistaking.
Whatever a person does on an individual level surely has an impact on the society and society has its own impact on the next levels. My understanding says drinking by an individual creates a temptation for his friends to drink, peer pressure, a way to chill out when together or on occasion. started by one person will eventually make whole society to do the same IF there are no opposing views to it. And everyone knows its something which is not good for health, not only for an indiviual health but the health of the society as well.
I may not have enough points right now to explain how does that work BUT my belief in allah and the holy qura’an is sufficient enough for me to believe in the fact that one should not drink. I cant think of its implications but allah knows the best and he has told us not to do it.
for any PRACTICING muslim its enough for a reason to not drink.
those who do it may be do not entirely believe in allah or are in a state of dilemma or may be do not want to believe in anything other than what they think is good for them. And no one cannnot impose his or her religious beliefs on anyone. One can only express it and ask others to atleast think about it. thats what i am doing here.
Plzzzzzzzzzz ppl answer my one Question!!!!When did our notation of having fun turned into Drinking nd Dancing?????
Whatever a person does on an individual level surely has an impact on the society and society has its own impact on the next levels. My understanding says drinking by an individual creates a temptation for his friends to drink
Very well said and it’s just not with drinking only. Every action performed by an invidual leaves an impact on others. A very simple example is drinking water in 3 gulps and in sitting position.
At one side I am practising my religion which was the main source of this habbit and on other hand I am doing something which was scientifically proved as well. By exhibiting my habbit I am actually saving a person from something which is harmful for him. Compare this individual practise with drinking habbit and analyze yourself which is being good for you and for others.
The only way to make your habbits isolated is to prison yourself in a room and then do whatever you want.
It’s “habit”.
Kia ho ga is mulk ka! So busy fighting eachother…full time disgraceful scene hai, no wonder pakistani’s are badnaam everywhere in the world! KUCH SHARAM KARO! JEENAY DO BABU! *bottoms up!*
Anon, I don’t see people fighting, I see good healthy rational debate. As far as Pakistanis being badnaam, my friend remember people treat u the way you want to be treated.
teebee, I don’t agree with u, because I have never felt tempted when surrounded by friends who drink regularly. I even don’t feel ashamed or any peer pressure drinking orange juice/lucozade/red bull while they go for liquor. They don’t even feel bad or uncomfortable either.
Drinking is prohibited in Islam, but so is smoking, television, music, banking (interest), insurance, mortgage, car financing, bribe, misuse of power, bizli chori, tax chori, over-pricing, under-invoicing, black markets, smuggling, killing innocents, poondi-bazi, letching, bay-imaani, commissions etc etc..
And I think bringing improvements in these sectors will help our nation, help us be better muslims. Far as I could remember, people drink in the chaar diwari of their homes, and there are no pubs around.. so I think its a completely personal issue and does not have a big impact on the society.
the last i was in K-city was a year ago and i guess not much has changed, i had been working with a group of ppl (local ‘n gora sb’s) that drank at will and encouraged others in the heart of the city that is……it’s ironic but i guess this is another IN thing creeping in the loose veins of our city (not society) along with underage smoking, from a religious point yes all points mentioned by Sufi are not acceptable in Islam and yes its a matter b/w you and Allah but then again you just never went and got the bottle from the konay ki dukan it was a private home where you started it out from and now you enjoy the experience as frequent or infrequent it may be. ever noticed anyone new at those parties ?
i will not act here as being very pious and not have had a swing at any of the activities mentioned above, once and only once yes i did lite a joint and a few months later i nearly fell victim to a drunk driving colleague of mine after a party of the same nature that the rangers jawans were not available to cover, khair in a nut shell collectively could it be agreed upon that its morally and ethically not to add religiously wrong ?
@Sufi,
I must say that, with each passing day, I get more impressed with the content of your various comments. You put forth some very valid points.
Salamalikum,
Why should govt. protect these people? Is it an official celebration or some important meeting? Were Rangers there at all Eid-ghas just in case? The govt. is in fact helping people in their secretive, sleazy activities.
Somebody has already said it: ‘Aml bil Ma’aroof wa Yanha anil Munkir. A Muslim’s responsbility doesn’t stop at just doing good but he has to stop bad as well. Sufi, you might not be tempted but not everyone (most) might be as strong-willed as you. An individual activity does have an affect on a society. Ever hard the kahawat: aik machli saray talab ko ganda kar daytee hai. And, it’s a very true kahawat.
Sufi: I agree with you that other things you mentioned are very wrong as well. But outside of different choris (theft) and killing, no other thing that you listed, as far as I know, has a hadd punishment but drinking does have a punishment.
So, why does drinking have a hadd punishment but dealing in usury (interest/riba’/sood) doesn’t? Because, drinking corrupts the society in a much worse and quick manner, and can (and does) lead to other worse things like zina, fahashi/’uryaniyat, fasaad and many more haram things. It’s commonly known and have been scientifically proven that drinking reduces one’s inhibitions. And, what do you think a person will do once his/her inbhitions are reduced? He will go and pray? Start fasting? Talk nicely? No, he will talk foul and show unwarranted agner. Hence, drinking has always been prevented from spreading/used in a Muslim society. As a side, don’t get me wrong…I’m not saying that people involved in usury or other things will not be punished. Indeed, they will be if Allah wants on the day of qiyamat, as several ahadeeth have mentioned.
dude sufi, you dont feel tempted and i am sure there is a good reason for it. maybe your age/your social circle etc. but everyone is in a different situation, generally people do get tempted to such things, i got tempted, my friends got tempted i have seen people doing these things in peer pressure and thats the most obvious reason. so you cannot deny that it is not ture. for example, what do you think is the reason for people to start smoking at the age of 16-17 at an average in our society. its the peer pressure/temptation to try/to be in with friends. it is the time when kids start thinking about life, about differentiating right from wrong, they set their lifestyle and these are the people who make up the society. So technically it is not a personal issue but a public one.
agreed that there are no pubs and its done in so called chaar diwari but it does effect the personal and societal health otherwise it would not have been mentioned in the quran so explicitly.
i totally agree on the things you mentioned which are prohibited in islam. i agree that some haram things do take place in our society but that doenst mean we open the gates for all others.
atleast one should stop on which he has control. one cant go and physically stop a person from financing a car but he can stop drinking or whatever is under his control. and there are people who work towards bringing the improvement in all the sectors youve mentioned.
“Honestly Shahzad, I also don’t think the country sacrificed to become a nation of prudes who are scared even to smile. For me personally, Islam is not a religion of fear as you seem to portray it.”
UR understanding is wrong. Islam has not restricted us to smile or laugh or study or playing some games etc. But it has imposed the limit on it in way that one doesnt fall astray in doing that.
True Understandin of Islam is a blessing of ALLAH.
“we didn sacrificce anything to sit at home and sulk either”.
this doesnt mean we shud start dancing and drinking. We dont have any purpose of living. We just dance, drink and die out. Why not we shud put our selves together for any achievement. Any invention, any creative thing etc. That would be good for us and our country as well.
“people drink in the chaar diwari of their homes, and there are no pubs around.. so I think its a completely personal issue and does not have a big impact on the society.”
Why not? Every good/bad deed has its effect on society. Whether its done in chaar diwari or openly.
I agree wid u that there are lot of open bad things which shud be stopped but they cant be stopped untill we get TAQWA. The fear of ALLAH.
At last, TeeBEE and Ibrahim! excellent job.
I am ashamed to read so many comments in favour of drinking here, even some of my christian english friends dont drink and think its not a good thing. Drinking is clearly banned in islam. Once in a party (I live abroad), a singaporean asked me, what for you ? i said , red bull (its Non alcoholic, softdrink), and he said, “we also have this and that.., i said, no buddy, i am muslim i dont drink (somehow i feel elated everytime i say this in such gatherings, if only u could see the pride on my face at such times). He looked at me with a little strange look, and asked “oh…sad!”,I said “sad?? why?”
he said,”I was thinking you have never known how does it feel to drink, u will never have the taste of it”
and i said “I think its sad, you will never feel the experiance of being a muslim, you will never know why i can turn down hard drinks so easily, you will not know this pleasure,i think its a pity”
and he was left in deep thought. For once, i agree with DOCTOR. May God forgive us all. I might be sinful,when i dont say my prayers, i plea my dear God, please be kind, i am too lazy, its so cold… but at least i am glad i never drink, drinking is like , i tell God, i dont care what you said, see i break your words so easily..you watch me as i take a sip…although i dont need it. even i have no excuse to do this sin, but i just want to revolt against you. Think again, do you have an excuse for drinking (for the drinkers only) ?
I would recommend a movie to my friends here. its called KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. I invite you to refuse to drink Next time, and feel like Saladin from the scenes of this movie. No drink can match that feeling, when i say “I dont drink friends, You know i am MUSLIM” , reminds me when in the movie Salahudin says: “I am not those men, I am, Salahudin”. May Allah forgive me. Amin!
I am so happy not to see any personal attacks in this post, rather very constructive replies.
Religiously wrong, absolutely. Ethically & morally, I am not too sure about. Yaar, I know a bunch of people closely, who are very honest with their jobs, their families, and are spiritual people if not very religious. I can vouch for them that they have never stolen a single penny in their lives, or used any unaccounted electricity or done any supposedly minor crimes and they even pay taxes, and don’t disturb/hurt other people on the roads or in their lives with their actions. But yeah they drink, maybe every night, maybe on weekends. For me its more ethical & moral not to cause any Negative Externality (an economic term) on other people. You might argue that they cause negative externality by binge drinking, but then again they do it in their chaar diwari and pass out and sleep.
Ibrahim, rangers do gaurd most of the Eid Gaahs & mosques. And yes I have heard the kahawat. Ibrahim, I belive most of the things that I mentioned should have a punishment in Pakistan. You should realise, Pakistan is a very hypocritical society. At least the law governing bodies. So yeah, drinking has a punishment in Pakistan. Lets see.. Ever heard Pehlay Apnay Girebaan Mein Jhaanko? I am sure you have. so the law governing bodies, the government, the judiciary, police forces, interior ministry, rangers, army, city governments, jailers, senate etc etc.. these are the heaviest consumers of alcohol in Pakistan. Would you disagree? I am sure not. So do you expect people to care about any punishment if the law enforcement activists are the heaviest of drinkers?
teebee. its a personal choice. I never got tempted because I had decided early on in my life that I would not smoke or drink and my friends respected my decision and even if they didn’t I wouldn’t care. I am sure it varies person to person, if someone is weak at taking peer pressure, why blame the whole society? I agree we shouldn’t open gates to all other sins in our society. Well technically, if all of us were so righteous, banks in Pakistan wouldn’t be making such sky high profits. And if they were not making profits, they’d shut down and that is how we could have stopped (almost physically) other people from car financing etc (because as a general rule if the demand for interest money is low, price of interest that is the interest rate would be high and if it is high, it would further discourage people)..
my whole plea here is that stopping people from bijli chori, or from abusing PIA (Pakistan International Airline) and thinking its their daddys Jaageer and stopping smuggling and collecting more taxes from the rich and redistributing among the poor, and better utilizing the funds for roads, hospitals, schools, libraries, and producing more jobs for the poor, and increasing exports, and decreasing imports, and installing more power plants, and making more dams (for power & storage) .. all these things are more important than a person consuming alcohol. I mean what percentage of people consume alcohol. And just stop blaming the elites man.. I mean in the villages, people do drink (or smoke I am not sure) Bhungg.
Everything has its right time, and I believe presently it shouldn’t even be on our agenda to stop alcohol consumption, because we have far more bigger problems to deal with and we need to focus our energies there.
Shahzad, we badly need fear of Allah man..
Khan Sahab, if you are hinting towards me, I am not writing in favor of alcohol. Aaoozubillah. Drinking is prohibited in Islam, Christianity & I think Judaism as well (all Abrahamic Religions).. I know tons of Christians who don’t drink. A lot of them in Pakistan and in the USA as well. If you know about the Mormon Christians, they are more devout than any other religious group that I know of and 90 % of them don’t drink and their population is around 12 Million I think. So yeah, we are not the only people in the world who don’t drink.
Peer Pressure, Being IN.. You know drinking is a primitive way of life, its not modern. Its not a new thing. Islam is modern and not drinking is the modern way of life. So whoever thinks that drinking/smoking pot etc is very cool and IN, they are just deluded. I tell my friends how I feel about it, and if they don’t stop, honestly I don’t give a flying F to it. Its their life, they can do whatever they wana do with it.
That’s the whole idea, I am not writing in favor of alcohol, its just that I know a lot of good people who drink and a lot of bad people who don’t drink, so I don’t think it matters to me if my friends drink of not and once again, we have far more serious things in our society to worry about.
I hope all of you had a fantastic eid.
hahahah i love mr shahzad telling us how we didn’t give away 600,000 lives so that we could attain pakistan to get drunk in it.
i suppose we gave those lives up to be corrupt thieves, have child labour problems, have the most disgusting sex trade this side of the world, and to have our women degraded and raped if they leave their houses!
hahahhahaah but noooo. alcohol is the problem. not our backward ways. we must fear god, not ourselves! (this is sarcasm, fools)
and for all those people feeling “ashamed” about reading about so many people who are indifferent to who drinks and doesn’t, find something new to be ashamed about. i’ll make bets that it exists right inside your house, and you’ll never do anything about it, because it’s too much work, or a tabboo topic.
shame shame.
hahahahahahahh.
lets talk about all the innocent goats that were killed on eid instead. i assure everyone, that’s a bigger problem than a few hundred drunk people having fun. what kind of god would play that kind of a trick on someone? the kind where he tells you to kill your son in his name and then replaces it with a goat at the last minute and encourages muslims to go on killing goats for the rest of eternity?
hahahah not my god. i don’t fear my god because i believe he didn’t put me here to live a life of fear, and no one can (and should) convince me otherwise. to each his own, but that concept bounces of most people over here. everyone wants to be an internet maulana sahib 5 minutes after they close their windows upon windows of porn.
grow up people, or put a sock in it.
You know whats ‘IN’? ‘BAD’ is in…
Being Bad and doing wrong activities is ‘IN’
I have hardly seen people bragging about their good virtues etc. but I have seen people bragging about how they drank at a party and passed out, how they were in a big phudda, how they drove at 150km/hour, how they did drugs, how they disgraced women (by looking, taunting etc.).
Its sad really, but the youngsters (me being a part of them) are going downhill, and taking the society with them. Unfortunately the worse part is that while abroad foreigners (first world countries) have counterattacked their bad hibits with good ones (hardly anybody steals etc.), we on the other hand are adopting everything bad and hardly anything good. And if this momentum previals it will just lead to a bleak future.
@Shady , we respect your religeon. But Karachi is a city of muslims. And muslims live here in majority. We welcome you to stay here, drink as much as u want. Its cool if u stop eating lamb , by the way!!….as prices are sky rocketing.. ;-)
Mr. Khan is feeling shame for muslims, not for you, stay cool. In our country you can live peacefully and follow ur culture.
@Shahzad,
“I agree wid u that there are lot of open bad things which shud be stopped but they cant be stopped untill we get TAQWA. The fear of ALLAH”
There you go with the fear again. I believe in a loving, forgiving Allah and you keep harping on fear.
@Mr. Khan,
You’re lucky your Singaporean friend did’nt bop you one for that preachy, judgemental remark.
TEEBEE: you have raised some excellent points, well done!. Leave these kids all alone who are desperate to get highlited by favoring drinking or allowing it. They prefer to live in illusionary world.
It’s true tat drinking is not allowed in Islam ,Hinduism and few other religions but apart from religious factor, drinking is discouraged by science as well.
By the way drinking was not prohbited in christianity neither Jesus[AS] had recieved any such order by God at that time. Wine was OKed even after the Prophethood of Muhammad[SAW] unless He recieved an order by Allah. But do make difference between drunkness and drinking wine. Christians or Old testament followers[jews] used to consider wine a gift from God and chrisitians used to drink wine in the festivals like “Eucharist” therefore drinking wine was allowed but not accessive drinking. Islam prohibited all form of drinking habits.
tee bee, i think you have done excellent job and don’t waste your time to convince them because there is nothing between lines and your message is crystal clear. Those who talks about “Between me and Allah/God” never got chance to read “Amar Bil Maroof wanahye an munkir” in Quran so its pretty stupid when they talk about religion .
Most of them are young kids and not married. Let them get married and have kids then they would learn themselves that how an INDIVIDUAL Act leaves impact on a child then they would realize that they have missed the train.
@Original-Faisal
I was not lucky, there is a right way of saying everything.
Teetotalers don’t know what they are missing. If alcohol was so bad, why were the faithful promised the streams of the substance after their death?
Enjoy, in moderation. Don’t binge.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=3968
http://www.therightmix.gov.au/pdfs/HealthBenefits.pdf
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/alcohol.html
Reason vs. revelation - logic wins. Always.
Good on you, Shady. Someone has the courage to be honest in public.
If alcohol was so bad, why were the faithful promised the streams of the substance after their death?
JayJay where is it written??? do provide proof?
Shaddy, My friend, killing[slaughtering] goats in the name of religion is much better than killing humans in the name of religion[Iraq/afghan war,Gujrat/Bombay riots]. Plus goats are not killed by muslims only. Millions of non-muslims love stakes,BBQ stuff. I m sure that even you would be fond of eating meat stuff :-)
By the way fear is not a disease it’s just a state which is not harmful at all. If a kid doesnt have about parents then there are 100% chances that he would suffer big time. If citizens doesn’t have fear of punishments after violating laws then a country[like pakistan is today] could face infinite disasters.
I think you are feeling very high. Do come back when you feel OK.
I reiterate.
My Allah is a loving, forgiving and accepting Allah and not one of fear and intimidation
Thanks for spelling correction.
There you go with the fear again. I believe in a loving, forgiving Allah and you keep harping on fear
the skins of those who fear their Lord shiver from it (when they recite it or hear it). Then their skin and their heart soften to the remembrance of Allah.” [Quran 39:23]
For, Believers are those who, when Allah is mentioned, feel a tremor in their hearts, and when they hear His signs rehearsed, find their faith strengthened, and put (all) their trust in their Lord; [Quran 8:2]
..Those truly fear Allah, among His Servants, who have knowledge: for Allah is Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving[Quran 35:38]
Those who rehearse the Book of Allah, establish regular Prayer, and spend (in Charity) out of what We have provided for them, secretly and openly, hope for a commerce that will never fail: [Quran 35:29]
The last verse is actually to refute claims of those who talk nonsense that religion is personal thing thus one should act like an addict and shouldn’t care about surroundings.
Remember If One of Allah’s attribute is Arrahman then other attribute of Him is AlQahar as well. Muslims shouldn’t take illegal advantage of His “Rahman” attribute by ignoring other attributes of Allah.
People,
Come on!!!!!
We are living in Islamic Republic of Pakistan.
Islam never allows drinking and dancing.
Atleast we should abide by what Quran says.
This is the only reason why Muslims are so infamous amongst Western World that whatever their religion is, they do not follow it.
We should do Istighfaar in front of Allah, because he has given us such a good religion which not only tells us the way we live but also to spread it to others.
Please come forward and make this world a happier place to live in.
On new years eve there were the highest number of causalties reported in London just because of the alcohol..
Now you can imagine alcohol not only harms you but the society overall…..
Do not get carried away in debate and be a Human atleast.
STOP PREACHING! It’s a choice, it’s a choice and guess what? It’s a choice.
just wonderinig out loud. what do u guys have to say about dancing at mehndis? by women. who you are not mehram to?
and do none of you blasters out here have a desire to dance with joy, ever?
@shaDy i dunno if you’re a Christian or not but ever thought about all those poor turkeys that are consumed worldwide on easter celebration?
“he tells you to kill your son in his name and then replaces it with a goat at the last minute and encourages muslims to go on killing goats for the rest of eternity”
he(god) did a favor, imagine your dad(practicing believer) conducting a draw and among your siblings your name came up for the sacrifice … *wink* , thats why we say Allah is Al Rahman Al Raheem…
all those people who drink do it in the name of having fun ,nice time and enjoyment.. don’t u have any other thing to do for enjoyment other then some thing thats clearly prohibited…
@JayJay
The cancer rate in alcoholics is ten times higher than that in the general population
alchohol consumption can suppress the immune system, leading to increased susceptibility to infections
http://www.benbest.com/health/alcohol.html
http://seniorhealth.about.com/cs/mentalhealth/a/alcohol_harm_5.htm
http://alcoholism.about.com/od/health/Health_Effects_of_Alcohol.htm
i m wondering those who doesn’t consider drinking in ‘chaar diwari’a sin, will one day defend ‘zina bil raza’ in chaar diwari
This is why a theocracy sucks - a bunch of religious people try to impose their belief systems on others.
If in my belief system drinking, adultry or watever is ok (which you may or may not consider islamic, that’s your prerogative, and which i may or may not consider islamic, that’s my prerogative too) then its none of your business.
As long as I’m not infringing on anyone else’s rights and going around forcing you to drink, you shouldn’t keep telling me to straighten up my ways and not party like i want to.
The x-files……eid is almost over…..feasting never does atleast in this part of the world….iam very sorry that most of you have to miss what we take for granted….khatoon(non-muslim) ki jeans dooh din disappeared rehney kay baad aaj khud hi wapas ajaay gi don’t you worry….it happens every year twice a year…..unexplained phenomenon…!!!Mtv tum bhi…??
@Doctor… i could post just as many links showing that having alcohol in moderation (like 1 glass a day) is good for the heart and blood pressure etc.
ahhhhhhhhhhhhh so sad that something so simple is so hard. All the people who are drinking, going to clubs etc etc. Just ask yourself one thing, WHY ARE YOU DOING IT? and please don’t say because you want to, stop being so shallow and dig a little deeper. This is not only goes for drinking; this is the case with everything. The only right answer for doing anything is “Because this is what my religion teaches me” at least for a Muslim this should be the only answer. I know I am not there either but I realize what are my shortcomings and I try not to justify them with trends, fashion, times. We need to work on it to get to that point and if at the end we can’t at least we will know that we gave our sincerest effort.
We are heading in the wrong direction and the saddest part is that we can’t even see it.
@RIX: This is why a theocracy sucks - a bunch of religious people try to impose their belief systems on others. That’s is the case with every system, even in an anarchy you have the strongest imposing there views on others, all societies are based on rules and regulations which are based on the culture, religion etc. So to say theocracy sucks because they impose their belief on others is na√Øve if not stupid. Would it be ok if instead of imposing we called it Integration (same thing different word) because we are not threatened by it when other nations call for integration of different social groups by forcing them to adopt the social norms of the majority.
@ANON: The corps commander has the important task of protecting the country
lol are you joking, which country are you talking about protecting. Protecting does not mean bending over every time you see a bigger dog. The only things I have seen them protect for the last 20 years are the interests of foreign powers. While giving our population an illusion of progress.
I dont know if its Kamran or some non muslim is using his identity to post here.
Some communists (non muslims) around here i guess posting their comments against Qurbaani and in favour of drinking etc. I guess there is no need to convince them.
Sufi! Either fear or love of ALLAH makes the one go to Jannah. Its ur choice now :)
Once u get the love, u get the fear automatically as its not wise to make ur loved one angry.
what do u guys have to say about dancing at mehndis? by women. who you are not mehram to?
Atleast I don’t prefer to visit such parties. I try my best to stop any such event in family shadis, If they don’t listen then I don’t go there. That’s the best I could do.
and do none of you blasters out here have a desire to dance with joy, ever?
ask yourself, you might have such desires but not everyone.
STOP PREACHING! It’s a choice, it’s a choice and guess what? It’s a choice.
Anon my friend, how do you define preaching? Those who are talking in favor of Alchol are ALSO preaching . Damn hypocrites!!
a bunch of religious people try to impose their belief systems on others
RIX, as long as you are part of a society, you gotta follow rules or just head towards Jungle but I have heard that jungles are not lawless either. Those who are favoring drinking ALSO trying to impose their views on others. No difference.
I think I am bored now. Everyone here[pro/anti alchol] have explained their views. I think it’s time to move on.
@Adnan Siddiqi
“If alcohol was so bad, why were the faithful promised the streams of the substance after their death?
JayJay where is it written??? do provide proof?”
Refer to following Koranic versus as a proof. Let me know you need any further help.
Koran 47:15
Here is a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised. In it are…rivers of wine…
Koran 37:40-48
But the true servants of God shall be well provided for,…they shall be served with goblet filled at a gushing fountain, white and delicious to those who drink it. It will neither dull their senses nor befuddle them.
Koran 56:7-40
They shall recline on jewelled couches face to face, and there shalt wait on them immortal youths with bowls and ewers and a cup of purest wine:
Koran 83:23-26
The righteous will surely dwell in bliss. Reclining upon soft couches they will gaze around them: and in their faces you shall mark the glow of joy. They shall be given a pure wine to drink, securely sealed, whose very dregs are musk…
Koran 78:31
As for the righteous, they shall surely triumph. Theirs shall be gardens and vineyards, and high- bosomed virgins for companions: a truly overflowing cup.
@JayJay: Well, before I answer, I would like to know that did you 1)read the verses you yourself referred 2)do you know arabic? or read the orignal arabic content 3) any idea about Intoxicants?
anwer these then I would reply you.
the x-files continues…..Yaar khatoon ney aik din aur eid manali terey ko kya..? tu eidi ley aur agay chal…..welcome back Mtv pakistan…!
@JayJay: Well, before I answer, I would like to know that did you 1)read the verses you yourself referred 2)do you know arabic? or read the orignal arabic content 3) any idea about Intoxicants?
anwer these then I would reply you.
Adnan Siddiqi@ 1) Yes, 2) Yes and 3) Yes: I hope your own answer to your own questions will be affirmative.
Now you don’t have any more excuses left to avoid replying to my original question.
@JayJay: If you have read then I am sure you would have enough knowledge that the word “sharab” in Arabic DOESNT mean ALCOHOL? Every wondered why do we use the term “Sharbat” or “Mashroob” in Urdu?
Mashroob-e-Mashriq Rooh afza-Does it mean wine of east Rooh Afza?
I am not giving any excuses and the reason I asked you that I wanted to know that whether you copy/pasted from some website or read yourself.
You yourself mentioned 37:40-48 which ends with
It will neither dull their senses nor befuddle
them.
While everyone knows that alcohol makes someone to lose his senses. So thise verse doesn’t mean ALCOHOL anyway.
then you mentioned Koran 56:7-40 which ends as:
ewers and a cup of purest wine:
First of all this translation is unauthentic and naughty as I believe that “wine” was added delibrately. Every muslim knows that Pickthall and Yousuf Ali are the most authentic translations of Quran in English and when I read their translation, they say something as:
056.016
YUSUFALI: Reclining on them, facing each other.
PICKTHAL: Reclining therein face to face.
056.018
YUSUFALI: With goblets, (shining) beakers, and cups (filled) out of clear-flowing fountains:
PICKTHAL: With bowls and ewers and a cup from a pure spring
but since translations re interpetitions, one could read the orignal arabic text here
then you mentioned:
Koran 78:31 as Theirs shall be gardens and vineyards,
First of all you referred the wrong verse # and it’s actually 32. The arabic text doesn’t reflect anything regarding alcochol here. Check yourself the arabic text of same verse.
The verse 56:55 contains the word “sharb” as “Shorbal Heym” means drinks like a thristy camel. Now someone might translate is “wine of camel” since it has the term ‘Sharab’?
Islam/Quran completely prohbits INTOXICANTS and it was mentioned more than once in Quran.
Quran, 2.219: They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say: “In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit.” They ask thee how much they are to spend; Say: “What is beyond your needs.” Thus doth Allah Make clear to you His Signs: In order that ye may consider.
O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan’s handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper.The Holy Quran, 5.90: O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan’s handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper.(Quran:5.90)
Satan’s plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah, and from prayer: will ye not then abstain?(Quran: 5.91
Quran clearly mentioned Intoxicants are not allowed this is why I asked you whether you have any idea about intoxicants or not.
Now who’s giving excuses, decide yourself. I don’t need to say further beside one shoudn’t seek religious excuses for pathetic fantasies. Next time do read orignal arabic text along with authentic translation rather copying from Internet.
@JayJay heaven is an exceptional case… many things that are prohibited here are allowed in after life, there won’t be any social implications and problems in after life and all the desires would be fulfilled ..
God just wants to test our patience , and for this patience we’ll be rewarded…
So, in other words, in the afterlife it will be ok to be an alcoholic womanizer. Ha!
I am really disappointed to hear people justifying drinking and dancing (even if it is at Mehandis). I dont mind what people do in their own homes but you have no right to say that it doesnot make you a bad muslim, bec if I remember correctly these things were Haram.
You might be a good person but it is still Haram and therefore you are a bad muslim. These things are haram for a reason, because they lead to the degradation of our morals. Imagine if these things became more common and all restrictions were lifted, You might not notice it now, but 15-20 yrs from now when your son or daughter walks in drunk or does something stupid while drunk then you will realise.
As for Pakistan living in the stone age, my dear if following my religion means I look backward, then I am backward. And if you cannot take living in the stoneage with the rest of us, you are more then welcome to go to the civilised world where girls get pregnant at the age of 11-12 or where drunk driving is normal on weekends or where you can find people puking all over the place on a major holiday.
So, in other words, in the afterlife it will be ok to be an alcoholic womanizer. Ha!
Depends on your perspective. I am too lazy to write some thing meaningful right now as reply so I would just pray that Allah gives all of us strength and faith.
Girls in pakistan also get pregnant at the age of 12-13, they also infact get burnt by their husbands and relatives - muslims are no better than christians as human beings, no doubt about it! Muslims are probably worse, hypocrits, lost and confused!
Actually I had replied to JayJay Mian but since it got lengthy so it’s held for approval. JayJay actually don’t know that the word “sharab” in urdu and arabic have very different meanings. in Urdu it means alcohol while in arabic it means a “drink”. Even in urdu we use Mashroob and Sharabat words for drinking stuff.
Jayjay copied all the data from somewebsite which even produced wrong translation of 56:7-40, which according to authentic translations like Pickthall and YOusuif Ali is:
YUSUFALI: With goblets, (shining) beakers, and cups (filled) out of clear-flowing fountains:
PICKTHAL: With bowls and ewers and a cup from a pure spring
and it contains no term like “cup of purest wine:”, neither in Orignal arabic text nor in English. Infact Jayjay refuted himself by quoting 37:40-48 in which it was mentioned as:
those who drink it. It will neither dull their senses nor befuddle them.
and it’s not a nature of a “Sharab”. Alcochol always makes lost of sense when use in accession while the quranic text says that it would “NOT DULL” the sense.
IN orignal text in arabic it was also not mentioned any term which gives the meaning of “alcohol” in arabic
I could produce lots of mistakes in the post but it would again make a lengthy post.
what quran says about alchol and gambling, read yourself.
The Holy Quran, 2.219: They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say: “In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit.” They ask thee how much they are to spend; Say: “What is beyond your needs.” Thus doth Allah Make clear to you His Signs: In order that ye may consider.
The Holy Quran, 5.90: O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan’s handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper.
I wonder our english zealots fail to grasp the meanings of intoxicants? why is it so hard to make an effort to find yourself the actual thing in orignal source even in the presence of Internet? why such ignorance?
@Adnan, thanks for the clarification.
ADNAN SIDDIQI: If your interpretation is to be trusted, it will take away one of the biggest attraction from heaven. One might as well drink here, if one is not going to have it in the second life after suffering a “dry” life. While men still have 72 virgins to play around with, poor Muslim women will receive a double whammy - wretched in the life and nothing to look forward to in the other world (as if it exists at all). Duded out all the way.
You have not presented the translation from Pickthal or Yousaf Ali for any other verse, which I had cited, except 56:7-40. I take it that you agree with the translation I had quoted for these verses.
Anyway, contrary to your interpretation of word, “Sharab”, Dr Israr Ahmad (47:15), relying on Pickthal, seems very clear that the faithful would be rewarded with “rivers of wine delicious to drinkers”. He has not used word water or juice but wine. (http://www.tanzeem.org/resources/quranonline/English/Pickthall/surah47.html)
Dr Israr Ahmad again refutes your theory about on “Sharab” at 83.25. “They are given to drink of a pure wine, sealed,” (http://www.tanzeem.org/resources/quranonline/English/Pickthall/surah83.html)
Next you will say 72 virgins is also an illusion. Don’t spoil the concept of paradise for a few who still trust the mumbo-jumbo.
@Adnan, DOCTOR,
lets stop wasting our time, not everyone here is a muslim. The muslims even if they drink, know they are doing bad and ask for Allah’s forgiveness. The non-muslims can continue to drink, i dont mind.
Jay: As I clearly mentioned that when arabic source is present, I dont need anyone else whether its asrar or pickthall. *nuff said*