Comments on: just a thought-

By: Arifa

Arifa — Fri, 02 Feb 2007 03:34:43 +0000

@ASH.. my replies in descending order
1. HE IS URDU SPEAKING THOUGH.. OR ATLEAST THE REST OF HIS FAMILY IS
2. I won’t mind equality but while I am waiting for it, I am enjoying the chivalry too :)
3. That’s just a thought, a what if… from the immigrants perspective, not the government of that country’s. No country would be allowing mass migration unless it was workign out for them too.
4. I asked my dad last week why he hit the guy peeing on the roadside. He doesn’t remember :)

By: ash

ash — Tue, 30 Jan 2007 07:40:40 +0000

Finally a polite disagreement on kmb.thanks.
1.I would probably not have gotten into this but the western nationalists/right wingers have been saying paki/mexican etc go home since kingdom come. Immigration actually works for a countries benefit which is why its allowed. Also there are enough people in every part of the world who dont want to see hostility and name calling towards any group of people and i think thats an admirable thing. That we should all be part of.
Youve been very honest about your prejudice/opinion i hope that at some point you will come to the conclusion that the world is a better place when we are all a little more open minded.
2.Equality and chivalry are both good things. In the long run equality is actually better. even if you have to wait longer for groceries.
3.Lastly mush identifies himself as punjabi, not urdu speaking :)

By: Arifa

Arifa — Tue, 30 Jan 2007 04:10:36 +0000

While tlaking tO some other people who live here and yearn to go back to Pakistan, I realized that they all like being here but do want to go back. They are torn between what they like and what they need. They like being in their own country but they need to be here as this place provides more than where they like to be. It makes sense.

Women were considered 2nd class citizens by everyone at the turn of the previous century, this discrminiation is slowly fading away, it will take another 50 years or so for it to materialize in our country but I am hopeful it will. In the meantime these 2nd class ctizens enjoy more privileges then the 1st class male. I, as a woman am allowed to pay first in the line at a store or pay my bill or go to the bank teller first. The grocer comes to me rather than me going to him, every single shop is targeted towards me. I can easily get help from strargers while trying to fix my car, corss red-lights without getting a ticket and get away without paying a fine. I like this chivalry if for having all this I am considered 2nd class.
As for being a non-pujabi or non-sindhi, well I think our President is from none of the above CASTES, infact even color for that matter. He still was able to throw out a 1st class citizen’s government wasn’t he? We are getting there. Just not yet but we will be there pretty soon. I can only say one thing for my country” With all thy faults, I love thee still”
Yes I do see very many desis here.. no comments on this one…it seems to offend some people here…
And I always feel that the people from this country have every right to think about us the way they can, we are afterall barging into their country and taking up jobs and land and homes and whatnot that belongs to them. It’s awonder they haven’t decided to throw us out yet.

By: ash

ash — Sat, 27 Jan 2007 08:03:34 +0000

arifa you are already a second class citizen (woman) and if you are not punjabi or sindhi or if you are not sunni muslim then you are third class. If your skin colour is dark then fourth class etc…
Every society needs to break out of its inherent stupidity of dividing people into brahmins and shudra’s.
The west is actually better than we are so far at doing that, not perfect but better.
I am sure you did not mean either thing the way it sounds but uncle should still not have hit that poor guy, and you should refrain from saying
“I really get perturbed (at how) many desis I see in NYC”
how would you like to hear that from a decent well educated normal white person?

By: Dee

Dee — Sat, 27 Jan 2007 07:44:15 +0000

@Arifa: I have heard this third class citizen comment before but usually from people who live in Pakistan but never before from a person who actually lives abroad, got her education and got a job(i assume a decent one).

I dont know how you define a third class cititizen but if one has a liberty to get education, access to health care, right to vote, get a job, not thrown stones from majority or not denied of most services and most importantly you are allowed to practice your religion then its not what third class citizenship is all about.

(i am using word majority as there are always some losers who think of you as a —- , no matter how sucessful you are).Thinking of the place where you were born or brought up is only natural.It doesnt/should not make you a third class citizen.

I dont know what do you mean by having difficulty *Adapting*, i think you have adapted well.I do miss my country and most importantly friends and family.It will be easier if you use the word *integrate* rather than *adapt*.You can always visit or if you feel that strong then i dont think anyone can stop you from moving back.
Hope that helps.
Dee

By: Arifa

Arifa — Sat, 27 Jan 2007 03:57:18 +0000

@ANON: I would get really perturbed if I ever see as many Goras in Pakiland as many desis I see in NYC. It’s not natural, that’s what I meant by *more than I need to* and Desis include all Bengalis, Indians and Pakistanis here. Yes
my dad did hit a man for peeing and showing off his genitals in public in HIS country as he was trying to correct a wrong going on in HIS country,unfortunately in his military kind of way. He wouldn’t care where people pee in some other country, having lived abroad most of his life he finds flaws in our society and gets upset.Let the old man be :)
Missing ones country applies to those who have problems with adapting life in the West, as much as you get out of it (in terms of benefits), you still want to go back to your roots. It’s all about human nature, each person works in his/her own way. A few others & myself think differently, that’s all.

By: original-anon

original-anon — Sat, 27 Jan 2007 02:27:08 +0000

Arifa, I too don’t get the third class citizen argument that people bring up. I have lived in the US a very long time. Just read my old buddy PPH’s comments since they echo my sentiments.
Aren’t you the one whose father hit a man with his car for some reason? I wonder how that guy feels – surely not like a first class citizen.
And then you say you see more desis here than you need to – well, I’m afraid that is all you will see in Pakistan – desis!

By: Arifa

Arifa — Sat, 27 Jan 2007 01:23:33 +0000

@POO POO Head: It’s not that I have ever faced discrimination and not that I don’t like it here, it’s great here, but not mine.It’s like when you are a guest at someone’s place you would ask for a glass of water and you are politely handed one but when you are at home you just go and get it from the refrigerator yoruself. GET THE DRIFT? But like I said before I guess some expats just don’t like to adapt and they want to go back home where they belong, others can adapt well, people like you and they are happier I guess.
I have always lived on the East Coast where I see more Desis then I need to but the fact that you nomrally work on Eid or you have your iftaar on the subway etc… just makes one feel more out of place than any other time.
Thanks for the tip, I’ll check out TCF.

By: Poo Poo head

Poo Poo head — Sat, 27 Jan 2007 00:23:40 +0000

Arifa, I believe in US. I really. I love this country as much as I love Pakistan. This country has shown me the true meaning of life. How is it possible that you live some where for 5 years and don’t love it ?? I really do not know about this third class citizen theory. In 5 years I have never ever faced any discrimination. It has never happened that I deserved some thing and I was denied due to my race/color. I hate it when people brings this third class citizen. US knows only one thing “merit”. If you can take it by horns then it will follow you. Reagrding India/Asian , this is not discrimantion/racism . Do not we classify people as Muhajir/Punjabi etc. This is identification not racism. Not sure what part of US you are but for my last job I was in rocky mountains(all republicans white area) and I never saw any muslim there , even saw only 1-2 brown skin but never had any problem. All people were great.

Regarding charities, I work with TCF(http://www.tcfusa.org) only. The donations are tax deductible so you enjoy two rides. You could set paypal account and it could be deducted automatically on monthly basis and at end of year they send you a letter about total donations and you could save almost 30% tax on it. Like if you pay them 1000 then at end you would save 300 from tax so it means that you agve only 700. My company also matches my donations so that 1000 becomes 2000. My 700 means 2000 for TCF. Try to get some one whose company could match donations for you or I could help if you do not find any one.

By: Arifa

Arifa — Fri, 26 Jan 2007 11:15:25 +0000

@ Adnan K: I couldn’t agree with you more, this is something I say day in and day out: I’d rather be a 1st class citizen in my own country than a 3rd class citizen in a first class country” Just like the Devil puts it in Milton’s in Paradise Lost: It is better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven”
I proclaimed never to leave my country and then landed far away from it 5 years ago. I am dying to return home. We are living a third class life in first class countries. I’d rather live a first class life in my own country, so what if it is considered a not-so 1st class country in the eyes of the world I LOVE IT.
@Henna P: One thing I don’t get is how the hell do people get AN ACCENT??? I wnet to a convent in Khi and then for further studies I came abroad I don’t ever rememebr any of my frineds having an accent.
If you went to school in Pakistan and then went for higher education abroad I don’t see how you can develop an accent, unless you tried very hard. I have studied outisde Pakistan for 3 years am working here too and so far no accent has developed..hmm…might be some deficiency in my brain cells or maybe I am clinging too tight onto my Pakistani style.. or maybe I didn’t want one as it looks cheesy and I know what my friends back home would say if they hear me talk with an accent. So people who have accents by being outside the country for less than a decade are either masters at adopting languages/accents or just plain wannabes.

@Poo poo head: if you don’t see beggars on the streets, people suffering and overall poverty and absolute rule of the jungle doesn’t mean these things aren’t happening.However, I know where you are coming from, the standard of living is higher than it is back home but what it means to be a part of your country and not *ASIAN, INDIAN OR OTHER* on a form you fill out here means a lot to some sensitive expats. Life is great but not complete, know what I mean? no identity. Living abroad makes us honest, hard-working people and that’s what’s lacking back home we need to harden ourselves towards all the wrongs and try and correct them one day.
Know of any chairities abroad where I can give money for Karachi? I normally end up sending money home through a friend or via bank account.