Life for a single woman..
Read this from the blog of a local blogger, felt it needed to be brought into the limelight.
The city doesn’t seem safe anymore. There is too much harassment in the subtlest forms. Life for a single woman, even if she dresses modestly, isn’t easy. Harassment isn’t nothing new for me, but there are times when it just seems to be happening every day, in many forms. There would be a sleazy doctor, who would touch you in the wrong way. There would be cars following you around, towing behind you, with creepy guys calling out: “App ko kidhar jana hae?” there would be bike walas swerving and screeching in front and back, saying: “kidhar jana hae, hum chor deti hein!” in the public transport, there would be prying fingers of men, as they refuse to let women sit on the only two seats they have claim upon besides the one near the bumper. Then we sat in the public transport and saw the person sitting in the female section, facing us and staring and staring and staring and then touching himself….unbelievably gross.
Credit: Anonymous (on the authors request)
Raise your hand if anyone found that strange or surprising?
Mansoor you must be mistaken, these are not our values! This is not our culture. Our religion teaches us different….. blah.. blah.. blah..
Welcome to (Pak)istan, oops, sorry I forgot, Welcome to Islamic Republic of (Pak)istan.
not worst than that:
http://dawn.com/2007/03/05/local22.htm
No even worse than that:
Someone will come along here and say that their ‘Khala’ who went to Germany for a visit, was taken to the flea market and put on sale.
See, see I told you it also happens out there….
Bozz, would you be clear about what you’re trying to say here? Cause your point (or sarcasm?) is not understood by everyone. Thank you
On a seperate note, this is a very serious post, and almost all the girls who are or have lived in karachi would agree with every word. Life really aint easy for a woman.
Um, why the anonymous thing??? If anyone wanted to know the blog where this came from, he or she will just copy and paste the whole thing on google and will be lead directly to it.
Bozz, would you be clear about what you’re trying to say here? Cause your point (or sarcasm?) is not understood by everyone. Thank you
On a seperate note, this is a very serious post, and almost all the girls who are or have lived in karachi would agree with every word. Life really aint easy for a woman.
@BOZZ:
I think everyone knows who u are refering to here.
u really come across as s bad and mean person>> from reading ur different posts i think u are a mean and agressive person. judjing by your views i think u are proud of that.
@BOZZ;
It looks like someone has really stepped up on ur tail and pissed u off>>
i will totally agree with BT on this onei will totally agree with BT on this one
Bozz: I hear you and I totally agree; nothing like the raw truth to make people angry at you, is there? And, this is nothing new, it has been going on for ever. I guess the Muslim men the world over are blessed with raging hormones which they just cannot suppress.
I really did not get what “original-anon” understood from BOZZ………”I hear you and I totally agree”
Bozz did not even address the main topic and just hit out at another person who said something in another blog!
people, the reason i brought this issue to light is so we can make our own little efforts to stop this.
we cant change mentality in general. People do stare at others, men do at women, women do at women and women do at men, it becomes harrasment where one gender is present more than the other..
but the uncomfortable position it puts others is the one reason we should (at our own level) not do it.
How many have you oggled someone in the last 48 hours? why?? Did u stop to consider what it’ll be like for the other person to have ur eyes on them?
We cant change society in general, but stop urselves and educate others not to do so.. that is the only way we’ll ever be able to rid ourselves of these evils.
pls include this “original-anon” in my description of BOZZ above.
he/she looks like an exact clone of BOZZ!
I don’t c any chance of getting back t the original topic as loons as these two crack potts BOZZ & “original-anon” are there!
they both seem to negative stuff!
let peace prevail…..
BOZZ:
U wrote:
“Someone will come along here and say that their ‘Khala’ who went to Germany for a visit, was taken to the flea market and put on sale”
how can u, even if u have a grain of shame, say that for another women. u give long lectures and show ur self as an intelectual and anopen minded person but u use such third rate stuff for soemone’s khala!
the problem with our society is that shuch jalf baked self appointed scholoars like u are destroying it. you clones are also present amongst the mullahs.ur breed is no different
BOZZ:
U wrote:
“Someone will come along here and say that their ‘Khala’ who went to Germany for a visit, was taken to the flea market and put on sale”
how can u, even if u have a grain of shame, say that for another women. u give long lectures and show ur self as an intelectual and anopen minded person but u use such third rate stuff for soemone’s khala!
the problem with our society is that such half baked self appointed scholoars like u are destroying it. you clones are also present amongst the mullahs.ur breed is no different
this place is so represntative of our society with all the different points of views……but some people think they are God gifted thinkers and others don’t know anything.
i c this attitude all over this blog.
nothing will improve till this attitude is changed. “these know it alls’ are the big part of the problem!!
to be honest….after seeing the quality of the posts and comments …iam not so sure i want to continue using this site:)
every other person is imposing/aggressive/downright insulting…..
these people may be happy to live in their self created world….but someone should really tell them who & what they really are and show them the mirror!
some comments are truly 3rd rate. There should be some type of ckecks/quality control on the comments.
Well … guess the mentioned comments are not part of “Womens Right” & the newly implemented “WR Protection Bill”.
And then people love to criticise the concept of Hijab & pardah as prescribed by Quran & Sunnah.
I wonder why we lack in understanding !
@ME – My point exactly. This is indeed a grave matter. A very sad and annoying reflection of our morals and attitude.
However people from within us have a tendency to disparage and belittle the problem and justify it by saying this happens there (West) too. Hell my worry is us not them.
My drive is make our people to look within, put our own house in order before pointing a finger at someone else.
Remember whenever you point a finger at someone, there are always three fingers pointing back at you (at the pointer). Try it…..
(AT and F. AHMED – now the field is all yours. Have fun boys!)
We have become a disgraceful society! One that is asking God to bring the ultimate destruction!
“we cant change mentality in general. People do stare at others, men do at women, women do at women and women do at men, it becomes harrasment where one gender is present more than the other..”
hahaha i’ve seen some men stare at other men too. we’re a country full of hypocrites who pray five times a day and then go out to have some impure urges by eyeing women, since we don’t have any other outlets to interact with them. our girls are kept locked up and most boys have gone “nuts” (literally) or taken to holding hands with other boys at bus stops and roads. they might not be gay, but they are sure as hell lonely.
i’ve said this before here, and i’ll say it again: we need our women on top, or all our men will soon be aggro fags with tendencies towards violence and anti-social behaviour.
mushy should pass a new bill that makes it a serious crime to act rude with a girl and concerned citizens should always report the car number or bike number of the culprits to the police.
it would make the mullahs happy too…. or would it?
@shaDy all guys would end up in jail…. too much power in anyones hand corrupts.. as for mullah they’re definitely against perverts but they won’t like your idea of empowering woman too much..
yeah I wonder how the reader could be anonymous while it didn’t take more than few seconds to grab the contens from author’s blog. In presence of google, you can’t be an ANON :-)
publicly humiliating the perverts is the only solution i could think of..
Sorry Doc, it will not work this way. You have to change the mindset and that cannot be down in any short way, by an order or by any form of punishment.
It has to be a process that needs a start. A process starting with education. I cannot emphasize enough how crucial this aspect is. And I am afraid without bringing this into the equation not much can or will change.
Unfortunately there is no immediate relief or solution for this. The answer is to lay a strong foundation for the next generation, and then start praying….
This sort of harassment is one of the major problems of our society but we often fail to take it seriously and so it remains unsolved :(. I agree with Mansoor that we need to make “our own little efforts to stop this”
it is not only single women who live this way…it is the plight of all women and many young boys too….its ridiculous to say that if we all lives more mullah like things would be better…maybe in heaven …the west has its issues but why can western men as a whole find it in themsleves not to assault every woman around? this is a power dynamic that the mullahs actively promote.
No offence meant to all the great pakistani men who hate this behaviour and often take it upon themselves to punish the perpetrators.
Dear Shady, thanks for making a point that Mullahs are against every evil things while seculars adn liberals are promoters of evil stuff. :-)
hey ash you don’t miss a chance to shit around, do you? Are you claiming that these incidents are done by mullahs? and which WEST are you talking about? are you saying that Western Men don’t offend Women? go and google and you would find a horrible stats about Rape,sexual harassment in US.
hey ash you don’t miss a chance to $h|t around, do you? Are you claiming that these incidents are done by mullahs? and which WEST are you talking about? are you saying that Western Men don’t offend Women? go and google and you would find a horrible stats about Rape,sexual harassment in US.
@Ash- Too bad you shat on Adnan Siddiqi..he stinks anyway:)
Had harassment in the West that bad as we Pakis tend to delude, the Western women would start wearing shuttlecock burqas or stay home. Their body language, their dressing, the western society’s attitude shows that there is little harassment of women in the West as compared to the most extremist countries. We all remember what happened to women in Afghanistan under the Taliban or what happens in Saudi Arabia.
If you look around within Pakistan you will see there is more harassment and discrimination against women where the Mullahs have more influence. They sell and buy women in the Tribal Area, the hotbed of the Talibans, don’t we know that.
Muslim men and harmones don’t seem to go well together. It all about domination and power and the assertion of physical strength. Four wives, 72 hooris, 100 ghilmans…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/20/AR2006102001261.html
Uh qouting Asra Nomani? now unmarried[illegal sec] mommas would be treated as “islamic scholars”. Intresting. no doubt she’s ur god mother.
adnan siddiqi cant help but be a troll — suprise surprise
Asra Nomani the lady with hormone imbalance… thats driving her all crazy…
adnan not only do i mean to say that loads of so called mullah ‘s are perverts (which we all know) but that the power dynamic being pushed by all of them can only result in humiliation for women.
Rape stats in the west are bad, but God knows what they are in pakistan where noone in their right mind would report a rape. The west has its faults just like the east has its faults but be realistic, when it comes to having the most lecherous men in the world we could only lose to an arab country. Thats just the fact.
adnan not only do i mean to say that loads of so called mullah ‘s are perverts (which we all know) but that the power dynamic being pushed by all of them can only result in humiliation for women.
Rape stats in the west are bad, but God knows what they are in pakistan where noone in their right mind would report a rape. The west has its faults just like the east has its faults but be realistic, when it comes to having the most lecherous men in the world we could only lose to an arab country. Thats just the fact.
Adnan Siddiqi and Doctor have cleared epitomised the respect Islamists are ready to attach to women by criticising the private life of a woman, Asra Nomani. Paki Mullahs can give a run for money on this issue to the greatest of misogynists, Arab or non-Arab.
@ASH – Hail Mary… you got it spot on.
Was just talking to a middle-aged lady this morning who shifted from Isloo to Karachi. And she remarked, “We shifted to Karachi because people here are always so decent, we always had a good experience. But THIS time – I find everyone staring and following.”
I told her that recently, each time I have gone out of home, I have faced at least ONE persistent stalker who did this, “Come with me” thing. As some judgmental face might be contorting somewhere – let me point that not only I don’t dress up like a “Western girl” – I actually wear rather very modest clothes.
My friend was wondering whether she should wear a hijab? Methinks that no, the perversion is very deep, it’s a problem with men – who WILL NOT STOP even if one wears a hijab because it’s THEIR mental issue.
One more thing: kids using extremely foul language, screaming at top volume. It’s unbearable for anyone whose parents brought them up well.
In my teens, my parents would warn us even if it was a kids three blocks away who used such language.
I figure that one solution is for everyone to put their foot down, and deem such behavior as UNACCEPTABLE. Was just watching Oprah’s special on child abusers this morning… (topic of the day!?)… and I realize that we give too many excuses to the crime perpetrators.
Excuses like, “this wouldn’t happen if people had jobs… people had this or that….” I sometimes thought on the same lines, but then, I have met challenges in my life too without letting me become a perverted social hurting machine. It happens to us all, and it’s no excuse.
Whatever the reason, whatever the social background… this BEHAVIOR is UNACCEPTABLE.
Secondly, women have a great, great part to play. Women must totally give up the idea that we somehow deserved it. AND learn to take action. Recently had a talk with a lady whose daughter received some nasty remarks from a driver employed in the neighborhood. She didn’t complain to the employers. Why? “I thought he’d lose his job. I thought the family would react.” I got angry. So she’d rather the daughter face the prospect of molestation than this.
Excuse me, but I got to use the word. B*******
:) I wouldn’t really. But we got to re-examine our attitudes and STOP BEING SCARED OF THESE PSYCHOS.
ct Islamists are ready to attach to women by criticising the private life of a woman, Asra Nomani. Paki Mullahs can give a run for money on this issue to the greatest of misogynists, Arab or non-Arab
Asra’s “Islam” promote homosexuality and as I said I have no issue that you accept her your imam or god whatever, “muslims” don’t practise such Islam. Every Muslim[emphasis added] know GOD
s curse upon homosexuals. heck even Bible curse such retards but then I am expecting too much from a retard who can’t even comes out with his/her orignal identity and coward enough that uses alias which explains his /her ignorance and retardness level. Get orignal so that one takes you seriously.
Iam really surprised that we haven’t had the goood firtune of getting a long sermon from the Nutty Bitch “BOZZ”!!!
This topic is really her bread & butter:))
Iam really surprised that we haven’t had the goood firtune of getting a long sermon from the Nutty Bitch “BOZZ”!!!
This topic is really her bread & butter:))
Iam really surprised that we haven’t had the goood firtune of getting a long sermon from the Nutty Bitch “BOZZ”!!!
This topic is really her bread & butter:))
BT’s (and Adnan’s to some extent) remarks clearly show the level of intolerance and disrespect for women and victims in Pakistani society.
We must accept that this, indeed, is a problem and I don’t think religion has anything to do with it; it is a question of our intrinsic values, respect for other people and self dignity.
Being a Muslim obviously does not elevate people to a higher moral ground; were it so, we would have no security or respect for women in the west since most of them are not muslims; I live in the US, have lived here a long time – I do visit Pakistan very often so I feel I can speak from personal and valid experience.
http://blanknoiseproject.blogspot.com
I hear someone is leaking the truth, the reality …the mental oppression that they have to face on daily basis. They are getting ‘independent’ … but cannot get emancipated from the ogl-ing eyes that follow them till the very core. It’s a sin to be a woman in this society of ours. The inequity that they face at the hands of their kins adds more injury to the already drowned personality. And it has nothing to do with education at all as many might think it a case of ‘Jahalat’ even I see most educated of ‘em passing imaginary bows and kisses. Hell!!
thanks bozz mfh ramala oa and all the others who reaffirm again and again that dignity and sanity are still very much part of our culture.
Adnan i realise that the word homosexual or unwed mother has you off on a rampage you may not have noticed that the topic is about the indignities women have to suffer due to perverts. Thanks for dancing all around the issue and covering it in silly string…unless you have molested a woman yourself please understand noone is demonising you here.
Orignal,Thankyou my old friend, I always feel *good* after hearing your *wisdom words*.
Ash, I think it was you came out as an ignorant and changed a topic from women abuse to anti-Mullah bashing? Kindly stop acting like an ignorant fool and don’t potray yourself an intellectual while you are not. It’s not mandatory for you to show your haterd and frustration towards some community in each thread.
thankyou
ramla: good words! as they say.. the only way to stop bullies is to stand up to them.
bt: dude, language!
orginal anon: you’ve picked up the right tone from their msgs… and to think… adnan is so ‘islam oriented’ *shudder*!
kurracche gurl: they’re not ‘educated’ they are more classified as only ‘litereate’ being educated brings the realization of responsiblity for ones actions which is sorely lacking in this *fine* community!
adnan: what can i say… u’ve done it YET again!
To the Mullahs of this forum- One question –
If God created all human beings than who created homosexuals, lesbians, transvestites and even bi-sexuals?
bozz: i believe i can answer for them.. since i was given a ‘sermon’ this yesterday…
“insaan bura nahi hai, harkatein burey hain…”
makes sense? mmm… to me neither :S
Actually Mansoor that sentence does make sense but hardly answers the question!
In essence, a human in its pure form is always good. As it has been created by nature or God which ever you prefer. What is bad or eventually becomes rotten is what we choose to be/become after and later in our lives.
Nonetheless I do know what you are trying to tell me.
Sorry but I agree to disagree with you. :)
J. K. Rowling writes the Harry Potter series, with Harry & co. on the good side, and Voldermort as a supreme evil wizard.
So now:
If J. K. Rowling wrote Harry Potter, who created Voldemort as a bad character and put Harry & Co. through a character test?
And:
1/ Does J. K. Rowling not exist?
2/ If she create Voldemort, is she a bad woman?
3/ If she is a normal, decent woman, how come Voldemort is a bad guy?
4/ Should the good characters in the series give up because J. K. Rowling created Voldy?
5/ When will logic and philosophy end up being in the wrong hands/ heads?
6/ If any articulate person manages to twist philosophy bad, will common sense evaporate? Isn’t the right thing the obvious thing?
Okay, let’s create a permanent web page with three columns. One says:
“Mullahs are bad, and we don’t need no religion.”
The second column says:
“I (a person) decree that thou shall… (whatever comes to my mind)”
The third says:
“Humans are free; we have no responsibility.”
Let’s dedicate this page to every person who manages to steer away from action by: a/ putting responsibility on others. b/ quoting from authority.
In my personal experience, I am extremely disappointed by the “liberals,” and the “Khilafat-e-Rashida was the best” kind of people.
Truth: THIS IS 2007. WE ARE NOT GOING BACK. We are also not going to hurtle ourselves into an irresponsible future for the sake of satisfying those who claim no responsibility as humans, as citizens.
Let common sense and good sense guide each person – AND IT’S NOT UN-GODLY to use your brain.
Let’s get back to what we can do about the issues. It’s the same thing over and over and over and over again. And who’s benefiting?
The psychos.
I have to give credit to the psychos to be actually action-oriented. At least, these people know exactly what their mission is, and how to achieve it.
Thanks to our in-fights for helping them! No wonder we often see one bad person hurting 100 good people because no one dares stop them.
Enough of this baloney!
adnan you are clearly obliged to take your own twisted interpretation out of each and every post. In your world there is no sin but criticizing the same people who bring disgrace to our religion, your rational logic certainly classifies you as the worlds biggest intellectual.
The mullahs certainly push a power dynamic that is the root cause of violence and abuse against women and i am sure you know that unless you really were born yesterday
and the “Khilafat-e-Rashida was the best” kind of people.
Truth: THIS IS 2007. WE ARE NOT GOING BACK
Now our vetran intellectual Ms.Ramla Akhter chimed in with her wisdom words.
I wonder what do you know what “Khilafat” and about Prophet[saw]‘s companion’s biographies. I wonder why khilafat is considered backward thing?
It’s crappy and lame statment that Shariah aka Khilafat is obselete now. Most of ignorant considers Khilafat a way of living in huts,not adapting new things etc etc. If that was the case then the first generation of muslims were going to be strong enough to deal with govt,economic and education things. One can always read the old history of jerusalem in which even jews admitted and praised the era of Omar Farooq[RA] when he conquered the area. Omar[RA] period was one of the best Muslim era,after that Omar Bin Abdul Aziz who was the king of majority of world regions set the best example of Khilafat.
Thing is most of psuedo intellectuals demonstrate retardness and ignorance by talking things which they borrow from west. Cheap ,very cheap.
@ask: kid ,keep suffering from Mullah Fobia, as it’s not harming anyone at all. May God increase your ignorance more.
ramla: “I have to give credit to the psychos to be actually action-oriented. At least, these people know exactly what their mission is, and how to achieve it.” very true! as twisted as they are… they’re really persistant.. :S
adnan: the point was (as i see it) khilafat-e-rashida was one of the best era’s of muslim history.. but thats just it.. it was HISTORY. As usual, instead with keeping up with times, and ADAPTING, we tend to look at the past reliving *that* glory while the present pasts us by.
btw.. when did ‘budduas’ become a habit?
ash: yes.. mullahs are supposed to spread word of God, rather than spreading false information for streghtening their own positions!
The right thing is not always so obvious. If it were we would not be in this predicament.
No one can profess to have the absolute right answers and most of us cannot be all wrong either.
One of the most important aspect of Islam is that there can be ‘no compulsion in religion’. I think this sentence says a great deal more than we give it credit.
In my opinion, in the end all that will matter is what sort of a person – a human were you. And not what religion or what sect of what religion you were prescribed to.
Bozz: that is along the lines my thinking is aligned.. what matters is what sort of a person you are on this earth, rather than how quickly you can rote recite the Quran.
ofcourse, understanding Quran makes you a better person, but only if you understand it with an open mind and act on it, not just to quote mindlessly from.
The Khilafat-e-Rashida is not a form of government but rather a phase in Islamic history. Although, the Islamic empire expanded rapidly during this period, it was not free of internal conflicts and violence, therefore less thna ideal. Three of the four great caliphs were assassinated and several civil wars were fought (ranging from the uprising of several Arab tribes against the Zakat tax during the reign of Hazrat Abu Bakar to the Battle of Jemal fought between the armies of Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Aisha) during that period. No point in hankering for the past. It is time to move on.
I think, Adnan, you are right. You have read the books and your third eye has also seen what books others have not read.
But let’s not talk about books – anyone can read and quote a book. Let’s talk about how are we each implementing what we support.
So, Adnan, what have you done to emulate the Khilafat-e-Rashida/ character of the Righteous? (I believe such language and misanthropy wasn’t part of the package.) Please show us concrete examples of your work, and we will learn if you are in the right.
In case you want to challenge me to the same, I am willing to share my work.
Mr. Adnan,
Instead of being a wuss throwing mud on others, I have actually been doing things all my life.
Here is a brief, selected resume:
1. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vok – I am the editor with the initials SRA. Note how I ask people to find solutions, not just talk about problems.
2. http://helppakistan.wikispaces.com/
3. http://nextbyramla.blogspot.com/ – where I advocate community and social work, plus teach on business. I have started the only consultancy of its kind that advocates social responsibility. I have now refused all work offers that are not aligned with larger social values. Read the paper that I wrote on Business – where I have put Islamic teaching in context. I am in 2007, and I think, unlike the “let’s go back” people, that my religion belongs to all times – Islam is well-suited for this age, and THAT IS WHY I don’t give a tinker’s cuss to those who avoid responsibility by saying, “Oh, only if we got into the past.” WHAT HAVE YOU DONE to bring alive Islamic teachings? Examples, please??
4. http://www.orkut.com/Community.aspx?cmm=23873124 – a youth support community
5. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/marketing-360/ – where I advocate social entrepreneurship, marketing to the poor, social leadership, care for social values in advertising on Pakistan’s largest community. Many people use such communities to puff themselves up as candidates for jobs. But at the risk of my being unemployable, I advocate what I believe in because I don’t think ANYONE who doesn’t do what they preach have a right to preach. I think you are a coward, because anyone who has been through the pain of really doing something can’t speak in your ignorant tone.
You can ask Imtiaz, he is the moderator of the community and is familiar with my differences with the marketing practices.
6. http://www.iqragulshan.edu.pk/UNI/Service_Outline.asp?err=1
Go here, put ANY in all search boxes, and ENTREPRENEURSHIP in course – and download the outline of the course I taught. Many of my students will vouchsafe that I put them on the right track. If you want references, I will provide. Otherwise, just ring up the university, and ask the dean.
7. http://karachi.metblogs.com/profile.phtml?author=700&showall=1 – and look at the issues I brought to light. Makes sense??
I topped in my class of MBA, but did not take up a job in multinationals because I don’t believe in them. I worked and work with and for Pakistani enterprises and people – and I try to improve them rather than blame them. So much for you attacking me on my employment. You are a Pakistani; are you responsible for the govn? Likewise people don’t steer their organizations, but it doesn’t mean they are evil.
I don’t agree with everything they do; but I make a choice to change the system; not be a coward blaming others for doing nothing when others ARE actually out there doing things. You need to replace that third eye of yours.
What have you done, you coward, except attack people’s character? If a Martian were to arrive to learn from people of the Earth, I would hide you lest they think YOU are an example of living out the ideas of the great people who your leech upon. You are a leech fattening yourself by referring to people of great character and ACTION. You hide your inaction and inability to do anything by attacking other people with great ideas. These are ideas of OTHER people, anyone can quote them except they have grace enough not to. What have you done, you impotent mudslinger!? Your kind of people thrive on distracting others and wasting their time so that everyone ends up a loser like them and so the losers WON’T have the pressure to do anything. Ta da! What a strategy! Trip others!
You are a shame, and I worry because unfortunately, you represent a good number of sick people many of whom are smart enough not to make a public fool of themselves like you. But they exist. But it’s time we stop being afraid of the opinions of those who do nothing but talk to avoid action.
But let’s not talk about books – anyone can read and quote a book
yes any one “CAN” but “DOES NOT”. It would be better if we talk about reality. Most of people who make noise about the issue have no background at all. They borrow their ideas from others.
Ramla, My only question is how KHilafat or Shariah is not compatible with modern world. If you consider Shariyah/Khilafat is /was/will be compatible till Qayamat then i take my words back but if you oppose like several others psuedo intelectuals then you must give your points to prove khilafat is incompatible.
So, Adnan, what have you done to emulate the Khilafat-e-Rashida/ character of the Righteous? (I believe such language and misanthropy wasn’t part of the package.)
Ramla you would be credible enough if you prove yourself first tht you did SOMETHING for Islam or Khilafat otherwisse you don’t deserve to ask others while you yourself has done nothing. I don’t know bout you but I myself is in field of computing and I alreayd have been working alone+ my friends to build softwares for different platforms. I already started long time back by making MSN Messenger port for the Holy Quran which is currently bing used by 2500 people and daily 700 queries are sent to my software. I can work with in my domain for Islamic preaching and I didn’t ask [like you] from others what they have done. Offcourse I can’t do poetry which is NOT my work. If you have done thing, show off and don’t hide it and STOP underestimating others and consider urself superior in every thing.
.
@ Adnan:
Since I saw your challenge coming, I posted about my work already.
Here is the big difference. According to you:
[i]One can always read the old history of jerusalem in which even jews admitted and praised the era of Omar Farooq[RA] when he conquered the area. Omar[RA] period was one of the best Muslim era,after that Omar Bin Abdul Aziz who was the king of majority of world regions set the best example of Khilafat.[/i]
Exactly my point. One can read books, and keep reading. It’s like reading Zubaida Tariq’s recipe book. Great. But does that put food on the table?
People who say things like “Zubaida Tariq is the best cook” are actually saying: “I don’t wanna ever try to cook well – and if anyone suggests let’s cook, I will say ZT is the best cook – and who can challenge an obvious truth!?”
What a smart strategy.
There are billions of copies of Qur’an sold each year. With your glorious knowledge of the Qur’an – did it never occur to you that the worst thing one can do with the book is to READ IT like a ruddy parrot?
Oops – sorry – I have seen a talking parrot in captivity who tried to tell me how to pick the lock to his cage so I think parrots know more language than we credit them with.
I meant, like a ruddy ignorant fool? Because ignorant humans are worse than parrots.
This is what I do: I PUT THE BOOK INTO ACTION AS WELL AS I CAN – AS WELL AS I UNDERSTAND IT. You know what – everyone has copies of the Qur’an already and I am not sure what a 15th copy will do. It’s time people act.
And BTW, your language and your useless attacks on people – which are ignorant and driven out of jealousy of an ineffective man – are unbecoming of a man who puts Qur’an in people’s hands. I think you’re a horrid example.
Let’s see: any candidates for being Khalifa??
The idiots who preach this idea have no strategy. All they have is, “Do you think that early period of Islam was the best?”
Unassuming victim: “yes.”
Manipulative questioner: “So why haven’t you brought it back?”
Victim: “Errr… I’d love to but how?”
MQ: “Are you denying it? You haven’t read books?”
Victim: “Actually I have but how are you going to…??”
MQ: “I see you’re questioning the great people. You are not a Muslim (like, dude, I have the license from Allah to certify you as a Muslim – TOTALLY ignoring the fact that THE BOOK says not even the Prophets have this right, as the stories of Prophet Musa would show to whom ALLAH showed who was the Zahid and who was not – but let’s forget this. After all, it’s in the Qur’an, which I haven’t read with an open mind either, since I am too busy asking other people to read it, so I can ease up my conscience for not following the Qur’an myself. Ta da!).”
Victim: “I am only asking, since according to my knowledge…”
MQ: “You are trying to be an intellectual.”
V: “Right. One the one hand you say read the book, on the other hand you have problems when someone says something intelligent. Would you rather I be stupid? Then why re you in the business of asking people to read if you’d rather have debate with stupid people?”
MQ: “Actually, you are a woman, Victim Khala… hahahaha… that is why you talk like that. No one can argue with a woman.”
Victim: *PUNCH!!!*
@ Adnan:
By your admission, you don’t know anything about me. Then what gives your ignorant self the right to misbehave? You are rude, and I am afraid someone wasn’t watching over your manners when you grew up.
adnan: following in the same vein as ramla, how much effective has your preaching been anyway? apart from getting a few souls grumbling (and grudingly) to offer prayers?
when was the last time you displayed even a ‘modicum’ of patience? rather than lashing out at whoever/whatever you can? relating this to the points above.. is that what you get after reading the glorious Quran? go with sticks and stones after anyone who tries to show even some common sense because thats not what YOU know?
the point is yaar… actions prove much better than words ever would. There are many people all over the world preaching islam, and preaching it effectively. Take the example of Dr. Naik! when was the last time he attacked a questionner with vile comments?
dont just read for the sake of reading, or even make others read for the sake of it. Even though reciting Quran in the original language with correct talaffuz does have its benefits in the form of accoustic theraphy, but really.. how long can u go with just that?
I am not rude. Don’t play around. YOu said u have done something. I really don’t have time to read all the stuff u have written.
Mention in few words. What have you done?[Yes I have not read all of your lengthy posts]. Be kind enough and make a seprate post of your work. I really don’t care of your fatwas about me.
adnan: if you don’t care about whats written by us, and dont care about what we say about you, by what right do u say we’re wrong?
you are right in your own mind, why is it so hard for you to accept we may be in ours too?
that short enough for you?
Mansoor, for you offering prayer is a small thing?
He’s not SACKED – but SUSPENDED to avoid conflict of interest because there is a case in hearing against him.
@ Mansoor:
I made a rather detailed post which seems to have been lost. That post was pre-empting Adnan’s questions about what I have done.
And actually Adnan, I have done rather quite a few things, so you will have to bear with me.
Mansoor – I think the post was held up because of lots of links. Check please when the heat of the Chief Justice story has toned down.
Mansoor, I care things which are relevent. If one keeps talking here and there but not relevent then why do you expect me to keep my ears open.
With reference to my last post, the reference of my work is given here:
http://kadnan.blogspot.com/2006/10/msn-quran-quran-reference-on-msn.html
which is very effective as yet.
Ramla, I will love to know thingw which I[many] don’t know. Why don’t you share them? u even have ur website for it.
ramla: i published it.. and it got lost in the system :S
sorry about that.. pata nahi kahan gaye :S
@ Adnan:
Oh no, I am not your monkey – my post was held for moderation, but rest assured that alongside my resume, it has something of the revelation of your character too. Rest yourself, though, because I am not going to leave you. I will report on it when I am done with my real work.
In that lost post, which I hope Mansoor can find in the moderation bin when HE has time, I did say that your kind of people exist for one prime purpose: to waste others’ time by keeping on tripping them.
And I never use my blogs for answers to stupid people.
@ Adnan,
There you go, Mr. Care-About-the-World-by-Wasting-Peoples-Time and Mudslinging-in-Ignorance. Mansoor found the post. Roll back up.
I am willing to waste this some bit of time on you, because, I am afraid, you do represent a large number of “let’s-pretend-we’re-doing-something-by-harassing-innocent-people.”
Thanks Mansoor. I am sorry it took you away from the more critical story of the Chief Justice.
Just a general note: I would never make light of an effort to spread the message of Allah. But I am very disturbed if it’s by people who are not examples of how a Muslim should be.
I am a Muslim, and no judge can make me think I am not. What an idiot would such person be to put ideas in the heads of someone who *might* try to do good.
If the Khulfa-e-Rasheedeen were like that, we’d have no Muslim left on earth today. Haven’t you read the books of what their behavior and examples were like? AND used your brain after that to reach the simple conclusion, it’s not the BOOK, stupid, it’s how you act upon the book.
Enough said.
So Adnan has now decided to drop his surname. A few more posts form Ramla will make him completely disappear for good.
ramla: found it.. it was somewhere in the system afterall :p
adnan: tsk tsk…. still not understainding…
jayjay: yayy! haha
Rest yourself, though, because I am not going to leave you.
I am all yours *grin* .
Let me recap the mighty wisdom of our vetran intellectual.
And I never use my blogs for answers to stupid people
and then
it’s not the BOOK, stupid, it’s how you act upon the book.
And then she complains that I was rude. Ramla, stoping being a hypocrite soul!!!
I will report on it when I am done with my real work.
*yawn*- Buzz me kid when you are done, Ok? do comeup with your work reference, quote anywhere rather whining that “I am doing something”. If following is your RESEARCH work then I must salute you.
Unassuming victim: “yes.”
Manipulative questioner: “So why haven’t you brought it back?”
Victim: “Errr… I’d love to but how?
oh yeah, you didn’t answer me yet, Is khilafat/Shariah compatible with modern world or not . Just give me one word answer, YES or NO.
@jayjay: Atleast I have a name along with surname. What i see that you are ashamed of revealing your Orignal identity[if there is any] *grin*
Mansoor -
I made an enraged comment on this post a moment ago. I am rather very upset about the Chief Justice news. Please be kind enough to remove this and the *slap* comment if it made it through.
I apologize for the inconvenience to you.
Ramla Huh Respect? Look who;s talking? Where did I misbehave? Your and mine attitude are same. No difference at all.
ehhe. As far as giving me a slap, just keep this in mind that you would get a slap as well. Don’t expect any special treatment from my side. After all pakistani women are equal to men so they should face equal treatment like men. ;-)
dear ramala,
Adnan if you are the one handing out awards on intellectualism ignorance or prayer then i am clearly out of luck. Thankfully i am quite happy to always be on the wrong side of you…it means i am still right, if we ever agreed on anything i’d feel wretched :) rave on buddy :)
ramala – adnan believes in equality when it comes to slapping women around and nowhere else. Does more need to be said? You are wasting your logic here by targetting it at him he is on the world stage resisting oppression from God knows what :)But i did hear you and you have my complete respect.
lol jayjay
rock on mansoor
ramla: the worst thing about being emotional on this issue is that people like adnan just keep on coming. If u answer to 1, 10 more will come up.. its like they’re hiding under rocks or something :S its an uphill battle all the way… just keep your senses intact and maybe.. just maybe one of them might actually listen to reason. Until then, i just pray they dont have to listen to reason after getting a big thokar on life.
adnan: hitting women back is equality? come on man! hitting ANYONE (man/woman) is a crime against humanity! tsk tsk.. if i could.. i’d pity your exisitence, but its not in my hands…
ash: thanks
hitting ANYONE (man/woman) is a crime against humanity! tsk tsk
Mansoor kid, stop being an ignorant moron. Go and open your small eyes and read who said it first. As far as hitting back to Ramla, after all your secularist musharraf said women are equal to men. If I am using same power then why is it irking you?
I know you always have a soft corner for women but it doesn’t mean you even get ready to demonstrate your retardness to “please” them. Shame on you, instead of asking Ramla how that kid thought to slap me, you are “preaching” me about what is sin and what’s not? go away and hide in some stinky army mess.
hitting ANYONE (man/woman) is a crime against humanity! tsk tsk
Mansoor kid, stop being an ignorant moron. Go and open your small eyes and read who said it first. As far as hitting back to Ramla, after all your secularist musharraf said women are equal to men. If I am using same power then why is it irking you?
I know you always have a soft corner for women but it doesn’t mean you even get ready to demonstrate your retardness to “please” them. Shame on you, instead of asking Ramla how that kid thought to slap me, you are “preaching” me about what is sin and what’s not? go away and hide in some stinky army mess. You should feel pitty on your own existance that you can’t even think freely.
adnan: this argument does not fly… “she did it first”.. men and women are equal as humans, and its a fact of being COURTEOUS to fellow humans that hitting is not acceptable behaviour. Even if its in retaliation.
p.s. she said that in an emotional upset state (which she admitted later herself..) from your side, i did not get any emotional distress, which leads me to believe you would hit a woman even in a calm state of mind. THAT is totally creepy behaviour!
Ash darling your intellectuality[read retardness] was revealed on the thread “three sword” when you were being a potty mouth lady towards your opoents. But then I shouldn’t curse you because it’s not your fault. After all this is all had learnt among army men.
itting ANYONE (man/woman) is a crime against humanity! tsk tsk
Mansor, can you say this among other army officers in your family and raise your voice when dictator ordered to beat 16 years old kid coz he was protesting for his dad? do u have enough courage to come out and raise voice against removal of CJ by dictator?
I know you can’t. you are such a filthy prisoner of a mentality that you can’t even raise voice against injustice or I say that you army kids have been brainswashed in a way that you can’t say a NO to anything which is unppleasent or unbearable. Go and curse your own existance kid. You guys can’t even say a word.
Mansoor, if she’s mentally ill then go and admit her in some hospital. She has NO right to demonstrate her mentall illness. Such patient shouldn’t appear on public forums.
As I said you just favor women no matter they are wrong or right. How could people forget your baised favor of Huma post she was being a retard towards a saleswoman.
adnan: “Such patient shouldn’t appear on public forums.” and yet you’re here…….
enough said :)
This guy adnan has lost his mind or what? and what is this army kids nonsense? people like adnan always keep reminding us that Pakistanis can never be united as we have such stereotypes living amongst us. Wasn’t the sindhi punjabi balochi pathan war enough that you’ve now started war against army kids? grow uo man! and im not by any chance related to the forces. I really wish and pray that Pakistanis start thinking as one nation, until then we should not even think about any progress in our country. we don’t deserve it!
@ Mansoor:
Yes, I was and am enraged at the Chief Justice issue. But. Time to think things through. It’s just that – whatever technical feasibility is presented for this action, the bottom-line is that it is high-handed, and it has made people suspicious. For good reason.
BTW – thanks for the support. Over with the troll.
@ Ash:
Apparently, even Harry Potter admits nothing works on trolls. So.
How’s the weather?
@ Adnan:
Your whole purpose is to trip others to hide the fact that you do nothing. By advocating 1 issue per second, you give the impression that you are doing something. No, you are not, as you managed to show. Period.
@ Mansoor & others:
So. Back to the issue before we get distracted.
We need to affirm to ourselves that the psychos are wrong, and that they must be dealt with. Also, in our homes, in our schools, in colleges – we have to support those affected by such harassment by taking them seriously – not making fun – not averting from the issue.
Adults and more experienced persons have a role to play in encouraging the affected to speak up – of course, in an appropriate manner, since such issues are sensitive and publicizing them might expose the affected person to people who don’t give a darn and will take the opportunity to wag tongues.
Mothers have the most critical role to play by listening to their daughters and sons who complain. It’s the whole family which has to give confidence, ultimately.
Above all, as Jamash said, it’s not a taboo. Not an unspeakable subject. The victim is not dishonored – it’s the psychos and criminals who deserve the title.
Ramla yo were asked a simple question and you made and issue and start bullying and discussing anything but not the REAL issue. I simply dared to ask that whether you believe shariah/khilfat is compatible with today’s world or NOT. YOu had no courage to answer it ,you rather started talkig like typical desi girls like “slap me”,”stupid” etc. Grow up! If you had no answer or had no courage then you could simply walk out but since consider urself some QUEEN[which was noticed by othrs as well] of KMB, you started whining that you are being misbehaved while ur comments are still on this thread that you are also abusing me. Why the heck u beg for special attitude? THe issue is that you have an ego problem kid. You were not stopped in your childhood by your elders and your level of arrogance kept increasing. I was one of those who used like your post as KMB author but it doesnt mean I am bound to accept every crap you share here or anywhere else.
Go and think once. Fix your ego issue. It would help others to experience your real intellectual skills.
@mansoor: kid i think it was you who declared Ramla mentally ill. I think you are upset enuf after watching gand rape of your foji community every where TV,Internet,papers etc.
YA ALLAH BANGLADESH WORLD CUP JEET JAAY….PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE…!
nothing works on trolls heh? ive heard you can kill a troll with starvation:)
adnan what i dont understand is how you pretend to run around with this great religious message that you want to tell everyone about, but the second anyone doesnt agree with you you erupt into a ball of abuse ….
Maybe you should ask yourself why you need to behave hatefully to everyone else instead of just allowing them to disagree with you. I mean really ….if you act this way in real life you need lithium. Why are you nutty madmen the ones who keep trying to tell other people about religion? If you were truly a religious person you would know that treating other people respectfully is as mandatory as anything else. But like every other hypocrit in town you just want to disguise your hate as morality….do you think you fool anyone?
All this heated back and forth was one of the saddest things; it just made me feel really bad. We lost sight of the issue which I think is an extremely importnat one.
Ramla darling, calm down , take a deep breath and remember you do NOT need to prove yourself to others in this manner; you know what you are doing and you have faith in yourself and your abilities and that should be enough.
Adnan, I know you are argumentative but I also always thought that you have a good heart – what is going on with you? I don’t think I ever knew you to behave this way.
@ Orig-Anon:
I agree that I have shown temper.
As a normal human, I do get distracted by persistent abuse – there is a limit to which one can ignore slurs against them.
Yet I reply to slurs for a more practical reason… as follows…
@ general -
Why do I reply? Actually I wouldn’t, as I often don’t, but for a very practical/technical reason: This is the Internet; thousands of new readers visit a page daily – and may end up with wrong ideas. Regulars know other regulars, but not everyone.
The recent accusations about a certain paper journalist lifting content from this forum, e.g., were serious. I didn’t have time to read the whole discussion – and for a good time, I had the impression that the writer in question had “stolen” a story. Only by chance did I read her/his explanation – and I still don’t know which way the camel settled finally. What about those who quickly read the story and decided that the journalist was in error when they weren’t (I remember that being the conclusion).
It’s nothing personal – it is about the way Internet works. Fake Orkut profiles, un-factual accusations, putting words in people’s mouths – is it right? There should be a way to monitor it.
Why is Adnan allowed to tarnish people’s reputations? Why is anyone allowed trigger-happy journalism?
I advocate use of more careful attitude – from the post about JPMC to the Daily Times copying CNN to the mass-mail about Essaji lab. I also don’t pass on SMS’s about boycotts – I passed by HotSpot the next day after the rumor about their food being virus-infected – and their shop was EMPTY. They get 100′s if not 1000′s of customers a day.
That is the kind of damage a complete lie can cause.
What we do in well intention can hurt others – and journalists MUST CHECK FACTS to the best of ability before making posts. I believe blogs to be serious journalism.
For instance, at one point Adnan alleged something like “Jang Employees attack other publications” – referring to me and Omar – and I had to refute him with reminding that I actually *defended* Daily Times on the very thread where I was tilted the queen.
But Adnan never corrected himself nor expressed regret. Interestingly, I am not a Jang employee, I am self-employed since 2005; yet I don’t wish to get my ex-employer’s related company tainted in my name.
I was titled “queen” by a reader b/c I kept reminding IllusionFS that the thread amounted to libel – and I did this because I once received a copyrights violation notice myself for using “Got Brains” in the subject of a post @ KMB. I didn’t want Illusion to get a notice – I mentioned the copyright notice thing on the thread too.
My crime was that I bothered, and that I gave information about how media works, not guesswork in that thread. I work with media and I shared info about how wires work which probably came across as arrogant to some. What can one say?
This whole blogging and commenting business has to be taken seriously. Because blogs, including KMB, themselves claim that 1000′s of people read and believe them. Readers on this and other leading blogs say they turn here for news. Strong research world-wide suggests that blogs spread like wildfire…
Therefore blogs can create a better atmosphere if they moderate discussions and make sure that all can comment without being personally attacked. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH ARGUING A POINT – the problem is when people avert discussions by delving into private, unrelated matters.
No human is a saint; we can always find skeleton if we open closets – which is strictly prohibited in all moral system of each faith. Everybody including saints and Prophets lived with bad families, bad employers, bad neighbors, bad cities, half-baked systems. Most reader here live under a govn they don’t support – we are all liable to 10 sins a day. Will we make criminals out of everyone?
I remember on PakPositive specials blog, I made a post about how my then-employer represented Pakistan on a global forum, and did a great job vis-a-via India.
http://www.pakpositive.com/opinion/specials/2005/03/we-will-we-will-rock-you.html
The post was made to share with the public the research we did to highlight the role of Pakistan – and the opportunity existing in “bottom of the pyramid” market – vis-a-vis elitist marketing. It was a very important research that I shared to empower others with information we all should have about Pakistan.
And then, a lady attacked the company on an unrelated issue. Actually, she was someone whom I had turned down for employment – previously she had worked as intern in Jang and expected herself qualified. I turned down b/c she deserved a full employment, while I was inviting interns.
It was a trilemma for me because:
1/ The post’s intention was to share our research with Pakistani public – so that our nation can get facts on what is Pakistan’s potential as a South Asian market. The South Asian Business Conference is usually completely India-dominated. I wanted to also share that a Pakistani company – Geo TV – actually did research to present Pakistan’s case and the case of the market of the poor.
2/ I didn’t want to create an opportunity to threaten my employer’s reputation, nor wanted to threaten my employment. Blogging was rare those days; Orkut was new; and I was not sure if it was ok to let my employer be shot at. PakPositive was popular, and I didn’t like the lady’s attempt to use the comments section to malign the company.
3/ It was unethical to reveal to the forum that she was avenging her being turned down for employment – I knew this because she had chased me on Orkut and any other place possible.
Fortunately, PakPositive intervened by taking out the name of my employer from the post and removing the entire comment thread. The thread showing there now is of another post.
Epilogue:
Interestingly, a couple of months ago – the lady in question joined the company whose “policies she disagreed with”. Talk about intentions.
The Harvard South Asian Business conference is now “India Conference.” While we were sleeping…
I still remain amusedly shocked at how – just to avenge her ownself – this lady made sure she’d avert attention away from the real thing: PAKISTAN’S POTENTIAL AS A SOUTH ASIAN MARKET. THE POTENTIAL OF A MARKET FOR THE POOR.
—-
*THIS* is why I reply. This is why I don’t give up. This is why I share any info I have – I am not perfect; I only want to share what I learn through an imperfect medium.
This is why, it is my sincere wish that Adnan would not use his kind of language because I am perfectly willing for a discourse with him and anyone else. It is not a time for discord, it is a time when we must unite.
I think we are living in important and dangerous times. I am tense because I am worried – and it upsets me, as it does any sensitive person – that we are involved in petty issues when we have a *duty* to take charge of the situation. We can’t dwell on dreams and wishes when the situation of our country is threatened from within and without.
It is my plea that kick me or slap me – but remain focused on the fact that we have to solve the issues around us. We have to denounce crime with hands, tongues, and hearts. We have to register our protests. We have to use all means of communication to reach out and connect together to work together. We have to WORK, not DREAM.
Books will not do it, words will not do it, past will not do it. WE HAVE TO CREATE THE FUTURE BY TAKING A POSITIVE COURSE OF ACTION IN THE PRESENT.
I may have mixed two things up:
Bloggers as journalists – need to fact check – be responsible.
Comments which become a good part of the blog – esp on KMB, comments are a very strong part of the experience. At ANY blog of note where comments are published and taken seriously, it is NOT ok to allow infactual information to remain published. If it does, it’s natural that one would want to clear their name – wise or not, but natural.
Yes, it can happen a few times that a non-fact is presented – we are not Omniscient – but to persistently tarnish people’s image intentionally – to not allow for a conversation to flow – to become threatening and abusive – to test others patience – it is too much.
Enough said about blogs. My end note is the offer of peace in the post above.
Thanks for bearing with me, Mansoor & others.
Ramla, point taken; I wasn’t thinking from a journalistic perspective.
If I see this blog as a microcosm of Pakistan, then I indeed see a bleak future.I am bothered by how quick we are to point fingers at others, how much happiness we derive from others’ failures, whether they be true or false; as in the journalist’s case, she had clearly said she was writing a story about the topic of the blog post and yet, everyone was branding her a thief. And, even worse, another important issue (the disappearnace of the structures) was lost in the self-importance of the KMB bloggers; because rather than talk about the issue, they were jumping up and down about how their idea was copied.
So yes, you did well to speak up for the issues you believe in.
Right now, the country is facing a crisis, and yet, the KMB is again more caught up in how they are the first, the most vocal, the most passionate.
Okay, I’ll get off my soapbox now. And a good night to you.
ramla: well said~! the comments section cannot be used for misleading other readers into thinking other things…
and thankyou for taking the time out to set the record straight.
@ Original & Mansoor
Thanks; actually the time Wamiq – who has never meddled with me, so I believe he means me no harm – said that I “act like a queen” – I did give a thought to what he said.
Because being habitually inoffensive, if *he* felt that, there has to be merit in it. Perceptions are fact in themselves – what people feel about us matters, and if Wamiq and others felt that way, I have to check if I can communicate better and not lose my message in the way it’s communicated.
So I did stay away from the blog for a few weeks. Yet I enjoy being here as the only Internet-based KHI community I know of, so I come here and participate.
However, I will look over my comments again, and see how I can communicate ideas better. I do note that I use a lot of “I’s” – but my reasoning was that it is a way to say that “it’s my opinion – and not necessarily representative of others.” As Chomsky said, many people act as if their ideas are universal, and hence use language to tyrannize others. That’s what I try to avoid.
But I guess on the one-dimensional Internet it comes it sounding the opposite way. I’ll look into an alternative, better way of communicating. Thanks.
Mian Mansoor i tend to agree with you wht you pointed out was clear n through to everyone but we have we ever tried soemthing to stop a single person doing or staring any women or girl like????i think NO because i’ve seen thousands of people who in fact enjoys the scene and pleased themselve!!why cant we stood up right at the moment and smack aur pull out those who do this….I did ths so often not because m a hero or a gangster per karna parhta hai chahe aise chahe waise!!kyunke Hukoomat ne na kabhi kuch kia hai na karegi aur awam moun takti rehti hai to khud kuch karlo na bhai
shahbaz: its enough you do it on ur own than make everyone else do it. atleast that’ll be one pair of eyes less which will be oggling. Good that you do it too.. lets hope someday, this catches up.
THANKYOU LORD FOR THIS AMAZING TRIUMPH
http://cricketworldcup.indya.com/scores/html/live/inba1703.html
can anybody tell me why i did not ask for an ATM last sunday….?????
BTW,the bullish may seem a little bearish here but that means nothing….the holy grail is still intact