Is Pakistan Going Down?

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Reading a recent news article on BBC made me question myself? Is Pakistan going down?

So many things going wrong at the same time.
– differences with India, Afghanistan & Iran.
– economy not doing any wonders
– removal of chief justice
– street crime in all major cities of the country
– extremist elements in NWFP and other parts of the country
– PIA crisis
– diminishing exports
– failure in cricket
– disappearance/kidnapping of Pakistani Citizens by the agencies..
– major water crisis in the making

The list can go on & on.. its such a difficult time for our country.
I just pray that our country makes it against all these odds.


83 Comments so far

  1. king_faisal (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 5:33 pm

    actually neither india nor bdesh are doing better than us. bdesh’s exports this year will be about 2/3rd of that of pak ($12bn for bd vs. 18bn for pak). pak’s export growth is slowing because of unfair tariffs imposed by scumbag eu on products over which pak has a competitive advantage such as bed linen. btw bd’s gdp and budget is half of that of pak.

    as far as india is concerned, merchandise exports relative to the size of the economy is about equal for both countries. where india exceeds is due to the very rapid growth of its service exports (software, bpo etc). in addition, due to hype over the economy, india is able to attract very large inflows in its equity markets and thus has much higher foreign reserves than pak has. overall india runs a trade and current account deficit just like pak though pak’s deficits are higher. pak govt finances are however in better shape than india’s. pak debt/gdp and budget deficit/gdp is lower than that of india. furthermore pak’s gdp per capita is higher than that of india and that is reflected in the purchasing power. for example, pak teledensity and car per person are nearly 2x that of india. also from personal experience, i could not walk in indian cities like calcutta and delhi at night beacuse of the number of people sleeping on the streets.

    people should do a little research on these things unless the goal is to spread misinformation about pak.

  2. king_faisal (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 5:37 pm

    also to set the record straight pak’s gdp per capita last year was in mid 800’s and this year is expected to reach in the mid 900’s which will mean pak will be on the lower end of mid income scale.

  3. Taaha Haq (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 6:15 pm

    What does failure in cricket have to do with the success of the country?

  4. F. AHMED (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 6:22 pm

    I totally agree with “king_faisal” on this one…..

    that has been the main benifit of getting in the American camp and i do not blame mushi at all for doing that.infact i support it! i cannot c myself in the situation AFG/Iraqi peopel are!!

    just c Afg/Iraq?? they are not even talking about growth…just counting dead bodies!! and just praying to GOD that the voilence stops!! they would even give up their GDP growth for the next 10 years in exchange for peace!

    what we have is not complete peace but it’s not total anarchy either. we r much better of.

    but i just cannot digest what mush has been doing to the CJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he is pushing Pakistan in the direction of anarchy!

    One more thing! the jack ass “gee hazoor” ministers he has are doing him the greatest harm!

    i just hope he realizes that b4 it’s too late….and believe me time is fast running out for him!

  5. F. AHMED (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 6:34 pm

    a few days back i read the article & also saw the TV interview of Hussain Huqqani…the ex-ppp minister now teaching at a US university….

    i just can not believe pakistanisgleefully saying such things on the international media as if it was a big accusation…..he said that pakistan has infact been able to get at least 10 Billion USD in US Aid…and infact implied the mush has been almost blackmailing the US in giving Pakistan aid!

    well we all should be happy if our leaders are able to milk the US. whats wrong with that?

    But i have no respect for seemingly well respected pakistani writers (please include AHMED RASHID in this list) who come on western media and smilingly/gleefully try to expose pakistan in front of the whole world!

    i remember watching Benezir on BBC on their Doha debate program, i think last year, where she looked really sad that the US had attacked Iraq instead of Pkistan as pakistan was involved more on the nuclear poliferation then Iraq, and was a much bigger threat! she was almost begging the USA to attack pakistan and ofcource give her power!

    how can these peopel live with themselves….:))

  6. king_faisal (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 7:17 pm

    good point about the scumbag haqqani. true situation regarding u.s. aid is as follows:

    u.s. gives pak about $600mm a year which is actually a fairly insignificant amount for pak. this year pak will recieve about $28bn in foreign exchange inflows – about $18bn from exports, $5bn from remittances and $5bn from fdi. u.s. aid in % terms therefore amounts to about 2% of total in flows. if u.s. was to cut off this aid, pak can easily borrow this money from intl banks. u.s. aid cut would however cause problems for the army because half the u.s. aid is in the form of military assistance. aid cut off would result in pak falling behind india in military terms. moreover aid cutoff would also likely result in sanctions which would impact exports and fdi which would impavt the generak population.

    bottomline is that pak has to work work with the u.s. but the necessity is no where as great as its made it to be. in a few years, chinese defence industry will be more advanced and can easily meet pak’s requirement.

  7. F. AHMED (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 7:38 pm


    i agree to most of your comments but please note that the US can also squeeze pakistan by cutting of the lending channels as IMF/ WB/Asian ..etc are controlled by US.

    the same thing happened in the 90’s.

    so the 600 million $ don’t matter that much but the goodwill of US govt. matters most.

    and also the US caa curb pak exports to it’s markets and also put pressure on others to follow suit…etc

    all this is linked and all the strings are in the US hand:))

    it’s the big boss and i guess we have to live with it.

    i guess non-muslims states must have felt the same when the Muslims were ruling the world from the gates of Viena to Indonesia(1500-1600’s AD)

    Ottoman+Persians+Mughals+ muslim states in africa & central asia, southern russia…etc

    “jis ke tahee uskee bhains”

  8. F. AHMED (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 7:39 pm


    i agree to most of your comments but please note that the US can also squeeze pakistan by cutting of the lending channels as IMF/ WB/Asian ..etc are controlled by US.

    the same thing happened in the 90’s.

    so the 600 million $ don’t matter that much but the goodwill of US govt. matters most.

    and also the US caa curb pak exports to it’s markets and also put pressure on others to follow suit…etc

    all this is linked and all the strings are in the US hand:))

    it’s the big boss and i guess we have to live with it.

    i guess non-muslims states must have felt the same when the Muslims were ruling the world from the gates of Viena to Indonesia(1500-1600’s AD)
    Ottoman+Persians+Mughals+ muslim states in africa & central asia, southern russia…etc

    “jis ke tahee uskee bhains”

  9. king_faisal (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 7:50 pm

    f.ahmed, you are right on the money. the reason i bought up the u.s. aid topic was just to highlight one of the biggest lies spread about pakistan mostly by pakistanis themselves – haqqani being a very good example and ahmed rashid being another one. some people i think do it out of hatred and some for the money. btw its not only pak that has to do what uncle sam. other third world countries have to operate under the same parameters. problem with pak is that its a muslim country with bombs and with strong enemies like india. what makes things worse is that you have many pakistanis willing to lie about their own country. in comparison you never see turks or iranians acting in the same manner.

  10. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 9:55 pm

    Govt compares Pakistan with India about sugar prices,gas and then claim “We provide cheaper services” but ignorants forget the size of India and Econ boost of India. India is progressing more in industrial and IT field. India is huge,both in population and area wise so definately there is more demand in India this is why India is willing to get Iranian natural resources to fulfill the requirments. On other hand I don’t find any significant growth in Pakistan except Telecom[as the govt claim]. If buying more and more cell phones and cars is indication of good econ[as illetrate dictator claims] then country developed countries are POOR because they have less private cars on roads due to their good transport system.

    Talking about GDP, Stock exchange etc, these are just political stupidity. Fact of the matter is that a layman is suffering more today and can’t feed his family. poor is getting more poorer and rich getting richer. those who re singing praises of Mush should be thankful of Allah that they sleep on bed and use A/C and can buy Dahee of Rs.48/KG and Milk Rs.34/Litre today, Roti Rs.5.00 and daal Rs 50/kg. Try to live in areas like Orangi,Sheeren Jinnah Colony where they live like parasites then I would see how courageous you guys are to praise such econ policies.

    Today if Pakistan is doing anything then its POP Industry which produces no revenue but retards only. Is this not shameful for Pakistan that KMB authors just find instances of reporting opening of different food outlets but not branch offices for Int’l IT companies in Pakistan. I don’t know whether we will ever be able to read on KMB that “Oracle opened its R&D center in Karachi” or Google started its services in Pakistan.

    Even the telecom which govt claims is going high and high, we are still dependant on 3rd class DSL services at home because wicked PTCL doesn’t allow others to provide state of the art services. In India you can get a 256k line in Rs.500-800 only and monthly unlimited. This is something you can’t imagine here.

  11. d0ct0r (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 11:31 pm

    former chief economist Dr A R Kamal seems to be saying that economy is going down

  12. d0ct0r (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 11:44 pm

    economy is going up … and the indicator is that Shaukut Aziz and Mushrraf’s farm houses in Chak Shahzad are appreciating in price… for them its a good indicator that economy is going in right direction…

  13. F. AHMED (unregistered) on March 16th, 2007 @ 1:30 am


    i can’t agree with u more.

    as fas as the iranians are concerned…pls note that it was the iranian opposition based in usa/iraq which broke the news about the Natanz nuclear facility a few years back b4 that the west did not even know there was any such facility there.

    the iranians have been under pressure ever since.

    by the way i do not mind that too much…the iranian would stab pakistan in the back when we are at our weakest…..they ar einvolved in baluchistan…etc

  14. ash (unregistered) on March 16th, 2007 @ 6:28 am

    to the people saying the debt has gone up in pakistan please google the us debt and get back to me …

  15. Sufi (unregistered) on March 16th, 2007 @ 6:43 am

    Ash, I will take your last comment as rather naive. Please don’t compare US debt with Pakistani debt :P it sounds ridiculous.

    1. US economy is some 100 times bigger than Pakistani economy
    2. They control all major financial institutions in the world, Pakistan controls none
    3. Everybody wants to export to US
    4. Everybody wants to invest in the US, no matter what. I am sure you realize how many want to invest here.
    5. US dollar means paper for the Federal Reserve guys, they can print all the paper they want and pay off their debt in a day if they wanted to :P

    lol. I am still laughing at your innocence :)

  16. ash (unregistered) on March 16th, 2007 @ 8:16 am

    that is exactly my point. If you pay attention to all the frontrunners for prez in the us today they are all making a big deal out of the national debt “we are selling our future generations to china” sort of thing and yes US debt is at an all time high infact it is the highest in the world. But as you just pointed out debt is NOT the best measure of a countries economy – ours or theirs. Get it sufi sahab?
    Oh and the US has a lot of international debt which they cant “print more paper” for, actually and just to point out for the second time on this blog printing more paper does not translate into getting richer :)
    Well at least you laughed.

  17. Ronin1770 (unregistered) on March 16th, 2007 @ 10:05 am

    situation of whole region is little shaky –

  18. Poo Poo head (unregistered) on March 16th, 2007 @ 10:58 am

    Ash, I agree that US has lots of debts but do you really think that some one expects it to get returned ?? If US defaults then whole world will get down with it. Just see Toky’s Nikki performance for last two weeks. Yen is getting stronger against dollar and shares of Toyota Motors and Sony are sinking. We simply can’t afford it.

    And US would always be super power as long as it can attracts the brains of the world. From Yahoo to Google to Oracle to youtube every one has got some foreigner as founder. God bless America

  19. Me (unregistered) on March 16th, 2007 @ 7:54 pm

    Not relating to the economy diectly, but I think the news of Khalid Sheikh Mohd. should be added to the list. He has sure given a bad name to Pakistan and almost all the major newspapers in thw world today had it as the front page headline.

  20. ash (unregistered) on March 17th, 2007 @ 9:06 am

    poo poo …i reread my post to see why people think i said pakistan is in the same league as the us …we are not anywhere near that league …all i am saying is that debt is not the best measure of an economy it may even be the worst …
    re. the whole world going down with the US ? i think we are going to live long enough to see china and india overtake the west, and the sad thing is that we could be part of that too, but as long as we cant get rid of what is simply hatred towards other pakistani;s and utter disrepect for any kind of minority, as long as we worship tradition and the losers who think tradition is more important than morality we are going to be more like afghanistan.

  21. Arisha (unregistered) on March 17th, 2007 @ 9:12 am

    Americans have a saying “Dissent is patriotic.” Sometimes the people who criticize what is going on are the real patriots, not the ones who keep saying “all is well” and “things are getting better.”

    I wish there had been a Husain Haqqani and Ahmed Rashid at the time of the East Pakistan crisis. They would have woken us about what our government was doing wrong and how our country was being divided in half. Instead we continued to believe the unintelligent propaganda that BBC etc. were all our enemies and there was nothing wrong inside the bigger portion of our homeland.

    Incidentally, if CNN and BBC ec. are all so anti-Pakistan why does Musharraf always keep giving so many interviews to them? And why are they not described as wrong when the praise Musharraf and his achievements?

    Pakistan was going down in 1971 and we were blaming those who were reporting the problem instead of facing the problem. Please let us not do that again.

    And before someone calls someone a scumbag again let them remember that smart people respond to ideas and idiots attack personalities.

    As for U.S. aid figures, here is an extract from Reuters based on a report from the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) in Washington DC. Those interested in learning and not keen only on repeating preconceived ideas are welcome to visit the South Asia section of their website

    “US Aid to Pakistan Questioned”
    By Carol Giacomo, Diplomatic Correspondent

    WASHINGTON, Feb 26 (Reuters) – The United States has given Pakistan more than $10 billion in the five years since the Sept. 11 attacks but there is little accountability for how the money is spent and it has afforded Washington little leverage over Islamabad, researchers said on Monday.

    A report by two experts with the Center for Strategic and International Studies has highlighted doubts about the effectiveness of the Bush administration’s strategy of enlisting Pakistan as a front-line ally in trying to combat al Qaeda and resurgent Taliban militants.

    The CSIS report said the United States had given Pakistan more than $10 billion in military, economic and development assistance since Sept. 11 and perhaps even more in covert intelligence and military aid.

    Even when a cease-fire along the border was in place between June and September last year, Pakistan sought and received $100 million per month in U.S. reimbursements for troop operations “raising questions about what they are being reimbursed for,” said South Asia expert Alan Kronstadt of the Library of Congress’ Congressional Research Service.”

    So the figures cited above by a couple of people about US aid are incorrect and on the lower side.

    Last, but not least, I take exception to calling former prime minister Benazir Bhutto a “Bi***” by one of the bloggers above. If you disagree with her, express and explain your disagreement. Please do not use a term widely considered sexist, demeaning to women and a sign of the lack of education of the person who uses it.

  22. ash (unregistered) on March 17th, 2007 @ 9:29 am

    o.k . let me explain to you as a women why i hate BB.
    1. Being the first woman prez was a tremendous oppurtunity – what did she do? acted like the typical victim being slapped around by her husband, allowing him to plunder the country, having zero control over him and being so incredibly weak she could do nothing …and did nothing for the status of women in pakistan. on the other hand she reinforced every pathetic stereotype out there
    2.She was however able to start what was essentially the begginings of a genocide against the people of karachi…she was able to loot the country …she was able to let her husband harrass and threaten every second buisness in karachi…
    lastly biatch is a gender neutral term and the last time it was used specifically to demean a woman was maybe in the 1950’s. I wouldnt be too sensitive about that, if you are any way implying that out of womans solidarity we should say nicer things about BB then we wouldve had she been a man then i think thats a self defeating position to take.

  23. Arisha (unregistered) on March 17th, 2007 @ 9:54 am

    None of these arguments are relevant to my point.

    You are welcome to disapprove of BB, disagree with her or even hate her though hate is considered the lowest of human emotions. I did not ask you to say nice things about her, just to use civilized language.

    You still have to learn how to express your views with decorum. There is a right way of doing things and a wrong way of doing things.

    Just as you used an abuse for BB, King_faisal called Hussain Haqqani a “scumbag,” another abusive word. He should disagree with Professor Haqqani intellectually, maybe even write a book or two to criticize his views. This name calling just reflects inferiority of intellect. Again, I am not getting into whether Haqqani is right or not. I am just pointing out the need for civil language.

    Of course, much of what you say about BB is a rehash of propaganda of last 15 years. The fact remains, BB has been out of power for 11 years. Her husband has served 8 years in prison and not one of the charges against either has been conclusively proven in any of the 20 or 24 courts where cases have been filed and kept pending against them. Surely there is a reason why the propaganda against her has been kept alive but no serious effort has been made to prove cases against her in 11 years since she was last dismissed from power.

    We Pakistanis have to grow up one of these days. Someone having failed as a leader in our opinion does not allow us to abuse them. A difference of opinion with someone does not entitle us to deny their merit. Two wrongs do not make a right.

    Many of our problems stem from our tendency to think that ends justify the means. So-and-so is bad so we can do anything to them or say anything about them. In its worst form this attitude is what leads the army to overturn the constitution because the politicians are allegedly corrupt. In lesser form it manifests in you responding to my comment about bad language with a rehash of why you don’t like the person you abused.

    In civilized societies, process is as important as the result.

    Someone wrote above that there is nothing wrong with Pakistan fooling the Americans into getting more aid out of them. Americans are now getting angry because they have the leverage of aid and they also read blogs like this and know that Pakistanis are just after them for their money.

    This is the stark result of not giving importance to the right way of doing and saying things.

  24. ash (unregistered) on March 17th, 2007 @ 10:59 am

    actually you said “If you disagree with her, express and explain your disagreement ” if you hadnt i wouldnt have explained.
    One further qualification …biatch and scumbag are not even swear words and they were not targetted at a person who is on this blog – so again, i think you are being overly sensitive, and needlessly preachy.

  25. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on March 17th, 2007 @ 12:11 pm

    Ash’s mass swearing proved one point that the real enemy of a woman is another woman. :-)

  26. ash (unregistered) on March 17th, 2007 @ 9:50 pm

    lol adnan….dont even start that stuff with me by your logic a women may criticize another women ..but only men are hateful enought to call each other wh@res and pray for their death..
    i am not a believer in women and men being from different planets we are both the same not better or worse.

  27. F. AHMED (unregistered) on March 17th, 2007 @ 11:23 pm

    y does it bother some women if a women like BB are called names. don’t women call evil/bad men names??

    and another thing….if women like to have equality then they also have to bear equal abuse when it is warranted!

    just as men who deserve, face abuse, so should the women! it has nothing to do with gender!

  28. F. AHMED (unregistered) on March 17th, 2007 @ 11:24 pm

    i agree with ASH on her point of view on this issue!

  29. ash (unregistered) on March 18th, 2007 @ 12:02 am

    well said fa ..true equality means both in the good and bad , not selective.

  30. F. AHMED (unregistered) on March 18th, 2007 @ 12:15 am


    yup…it really does, otherwise we are just plain hypocrites!

    evil does not know any gender…it only knows power!

    it has just so happened that men have been in power since the begining of time…….

    let women share power and in a few generation we would also have a few women Hitlers as well!

  31. ash (unregistered) on March 18th, 2007 @ 12:48 am

    yes you are right about that. I dont agree with a superior gender either one –
    I once heard this quote
    “true equality is when mediocre women are elected to high offices”…
    given human nature at this point we all have a lot of evolving to do, men and women .

  32. F. AHMED (unregistered) on March 18th, 2007 @ 1:12 am

    we sure need a bit of fast paced evolving:))

    well. good nite to all of you…i have office in the morning…sunday is a working day in dubai. c u all tomorow! Allah Hafiz!

  33. s khan (unregistered) on March 30th, 2007 @ 6:28 pm

    its all over, only around 4 to 5% of muslims remain, all others are karfra. As long as pakistan has women in charge and presidents and primeinsters who have mostaches and dogs the country will continue to go down hill big time. we need a real muslim incharge an not a bushe and blair ass licking fool

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