Is Pakistan Going Down?

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Reading a recent news article on BBC made me question myself? Is Pakistan going down?

So many things going wrong at the same time.
- differences with India, Afghanistan & Iran.
- economy not doing any wonders
- removal of chief justice
- street crime in all major cities of the country
- extremist elements in NWFP and other parts of the country
- PIA crisis
- diminishing exports
- failure in cricket
- disappearance/kidnapping of Pakistani Citizens by the agencies..
- major water crisis in the making

The list can go on & on.. its such a difficult time for our country.
I just pray that our country makes it against all these odds.

Ameen.

83 Comments so far

  1. ash (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 12:46 am

    i disagree, the economy is better than it ever has been…and violence in karachi is at an all time low …the rest of what you said is valid..if we want to do better we could learn from India but sadly extremism/feudalism/ethnic superiority subjugation of women/minorities and sectarian strife has to be overcome first and thats a hard battle to win.
    We need to put the blame on ourselves as a society for the faults we see in pakistan today.


  2. Zainub (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 1:00 am

    I’m an internal optimist. I refuse to give a hope, in cricket at least.


  3. Zainub (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 1:04 am

    Besides we should look at the positives (er, now can some one help me find those please)


  4. darthvader (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 1:18 am

    …errrr easy ..
    we rank #6 in the list of most populous countries in the world !!!!
    how you like them apples HUH

    DV


  5. cyrus (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 1:37 am

    I think we will be alright. We need an accountable Govt and rule of law. Bus,the rest will take care of itself. What is the difference between India and Pakistan? None, except that they have a functioning deomcracy.


  6. Sufi (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 1:40 am

    Economy being better than ever? who are you kidding :S?

    Violence in Karachi is low because the ‘violent’ lot are busy collecting the ‘maal’.

    Cyrus, India has a growing economy. There is no zameendari nizam in India. There are so many Indians in Forbes list of billionaires 2007. Let’s not compare India with Pakistan, not right now please.


  7. Sufi (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 1:42 am

    cont’d

    & the way you said ‘we need an accountable govt. & rule of law’ sounded like abc. you do realize how difficult it is in our society.

    I hate to be a pessimist, but that is how I feel right now.


  8. king_faisal (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 2:03 am

    pakistan may or may not be going down but this website certainly is.

    is there another website devoted to all things karachi? i am afraid this website dont cut it no more.


  9. Kashif (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 2:13 am

    It’s time for a regime change in Pakistan.

    http://www.chowrangi.com/time-for-a-regime-change-in-pakistan.html


  10. Concerned (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 4:29 am

    I agree with King Faisal we seem to be getting too politicised. we dont need a regime change. seriously who the f*** do u want in the government. Wht you need is a revolution to kill all chaudaris and zamindaars. but u can have tht, so live with it.

    try to make the best of it.

    and Sufi the economy may not be better then ever but it is a whole lot better then it has been in a long time. Do u agree with tht atleast? You gotta learn to be a bit more optimistic.

    We gotta make this country, think ahead dont let ur today spoil ur tomorrow.


  11. ash (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 4:30 am

    guys honestly whats going on here? i am always the biggest supporter of political debate but every single post here is so doom and gloom its as if a bunch of gora’s are learning about pakistan for the first time , seriously look back at the posts over the last 2 months …. i have to second king faisal here…whats going on?
    meanwhile you guys have absolutely nothing to say about our first match in the world cup – what country are you in guys? cricket trumps politics every time in karachi/pakistan post at least one crummy post already , daym i am missing unaiza, where is she?


  12. Concerned (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 4:31 am

    Sorry,

    Thts “cant have tht” not “can” in the first para.


  13. ash (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 4:31 am

    thanks concerned i was starting to feel like i was in wonderland


  14. ash (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 4:32 am

    i meant thanks for your post – not for the typo clrification :)


  15. Sufi (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 5:06 am

    Concerned, ok. let’s not fool ourselves, what economy are we talking about? Macro/Micro?

    I know a lot of businesses are doing good. Consumer loans are easy to get. We have a lot of international food outlets, a couple dozen nice restaurants, new airlines, new mobile companies..

    But are our people happy? Is it easy for the people to buy their daily use items? tomatoes, onions, yogurts, eggs .. one SHOULDN’T have to be a millionaire to afford these things, why are they getting out of reach even for the middle income families? why does every one in in the private sector have to rely on dihaari (commissions) etc?? I can say a lot more, but I have to go.


  16. Concerned (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 5:12 am

    Thanks ASH

    As for the cricket team I say we bring the back, there I see a very bleak future.


  17. Concerned (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 5:16 am

    @ Sufi

    were people happy 10 years ago?? If it isnt this its that. People will always have problems. Wht you have to see is does the government care.


  18. KarachiForEver (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 5:26 am

    Nice comments by Concerned,King Faisal and Ash..We need to be more optimistic then pessimist.It seems that there are some authors and contributors which just want to make comments on Political issues (actually they just want to critisize).


  19. Sufi (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 5:38 am

    I think we need to be more realistic than optimistic :).

    Thank you everyone for your comments.

    Concerned, 10 years ago, I was unsafe but happy. I know 100s of people who are in a similar situation.


  20. ash (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 5:48 am

    dont worry, that biatch bhutto is likely coming back so soon you will be unsafe again like every family in karachi ….i want to see how happy your posts sound when that happens.
    I am sorry sufi i dont mean this personally to you at all…i am just feeling really angry like i guess everyone in pakistan, (on both sides)


  21. Pak_Stallion (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 6:07 am

    This is one of the major problem with us, the people. We are so pessimistic and with no will-power and self-esteem. Always thinking negative. The issues that the blogger is talking about are serious but keep in mind that now Pakistan has a strong media base (including blogs like this) and everything that happens anywhere in the country becomes a part of discussion within hours. We know more then we ever did before. A lot of good things are happening too but who cares since we r a pessimist broken hearted nation.

    You will get what you will think. If you think this nation is going down then it will – if you think this nation will rise as the greatest country then it will. It depends on you. And before blaming anyone, blame yourself cause the country is you.

    Wake up Pakistan – Mush is not an angel nor is the CJP. Everyone one of us can make mistakes. What happened was clearly wrong but we will not let CJP go down like that… Things will get better. The thing that I have learned from this CJP incident is that how close of a nation we are. How informed and how just we are as people. I was listening to the radio show on “Voice of America” and people from Dir to Quetta to Pindi to Karachi to Gilgit and everywhere in-between called including Pathans, Baluchi, Sindhi, Punjabi, Mahajir & Kashmiri. Every single one was united, asking questions that were linked in a cause, it truly sounded like voices of “One Family” and One Nation. This is what we learn from it… The bottom line is that we are a great nation and we are on our path to success. All these issues will come to pass InshaAllah as long as we stick together. Work Work and Work & keep the faith…


  22. Pak_Stallion (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 6:11 am

    And by the way – we all know very well that BBC is a biased service. You will notice Pakistan mostly negative while India related topics are mostly positive such as bollywood, economic boom etc. Even though good n bad things are happening in both countries. I sometime wonder about the chain of officials at BBC cause it just seems too obvious at times.


  23. ash (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 6:25 am

    thanks a million pak stallion


  24. Fawad (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 6:55 am

    @ PAK_STALLION What is good to publish about Pakistan, for India yeah they do have a strong Movie Industry, they have economic boom, they have lots of good thing going on, thats why they are publishing it, but for Pakistan … nothing.

    We even dont have a common thinking, which play a major role in a development of society and why is that ?? just because of our educational system, we have double standards, we dont have a common educational system.

    Everybody here is expressing his/her own view, thats a bullshit, if any one from army background , that person is supporting army action regardless the thing is right or wrong, if someone from religious background he is giving his own stuff.
    this country is full of confused ppl like u and me.


  25. Sufi (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 8:31 am

    LAHORE: Police and intelligence agencies arrested several opposition politicians and lawyers in raids carried out at their residences in Lahore around midnight on Wednesday, following protests against the suspension of Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry.

    KARACHI: The Preedy police have registered an FIR against about 150 lawyers on charges of attacking the Sindh Assembly building and breaking down its gates in protest over the non-functional chief justice.

    KARACHI: The Al-Khidmat Group filed a petition with the Sindh High court (SHC) against the sale of Kidney Hill land Wednesday.

    KARACHI: Like under-performing exports, the textile sector’s profitability in the first half of current financial year also dipped by 10 percent as against the corresponding period of the previous year.

    ISLAMABAD: Most industrial units in the country are not in compliance with the globally accepted social obligations like minimum standards on minimum wages, working hours, child labour, workers health, workers safety, working environment, to eliminate social exploitation in the country.

    MOSCOW: Russia will ban rice imports from Pakistan from March 19 after finding a shipment infected with a dangerous pest, the animal and plant health watchdog Rosselkhoznadzor said on Wednesday.


  26. Fawad (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 8:39 am

    @SUFI. Yeah we are now expert in making these NEWS.


  27. Pak_Stallion (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 9:54 am

    Dear SUFI Sir – Are you a born Pakistani? I am more concerned about people like you than the news you posted. I can post worse news about India or even America. We all have the option to create a negative energy or a positive energy. The question is what are our options & where do we want to go? We give up on our own home or we fix it? Trust me after living 10 years overseas in different countries I know for sure there is no place like home, and we have only one.

    So if you are a true Pakistani, you do have the right to blame your country but do it while standing in front of a mirror. The fact is that we have all the ingredients for complete success and giving up is NOT in our blood. When we got our country we had nothing, no money no logistics, we (our parents) built everything by working hard day n night. That is why we are also known as the nation of Mazdoors, and we r proud of it. We must continue that. We have the potential and the ability, let us do it.

    Go Pakistan…


  28. Poo Poo head (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 10:44 am

    Yah Illusion, Pakistan is going very down :-) Failure in Cricket :-) that made me really laugh. Gimme a break please …. Any how the nice thing about this post is an ipod style poll. Though I agree with you that economy is not helping lower class but then I do not care for any one as long as I can afford my 1500 Rs sushi meal.


  29. pmar r. quraishi (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 11:08 am

    sufi — the problem with people like you is you only believe anything about your country once it comes in the foreign press — ahmed rashid is not exactly a very unbiased source — and frankly speaking i think he seems to over exaggerating PIA’s EU ban — its a quarterly ban imposed on 102 other airlines and is periodically reviewed –


  30. Fawad (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 11:21 am

    @ PMAR R. Quraishi, the problem with ppl like is you ppl didnt admit that there is something wrong, and if you didnt realise then no point to correct it.


  31. Adnan (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 11:38 am

    This is really joke of the day that Pakistani Econ is going UP. Providing no facts behing this fictitious argument.

    Econ was good back in 2003/2004 not anymore. Reserves are decreasing,inflation high,high goods prizes. Govt is selling things in the name of privitization. How Pakistan is doing good in Econ? I would really like to learn.


  32. Adnan (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 11:56 am

    It didn’t take much time to find out these.

    “Pakistan’s external debt rises to $37.72b”-7th March 2007 news

    tinyurl.com/324kp2

    see the inflation rate of FPI specially which varies a lot from 2003 to 2006

    tinyurl.com/2zwm59


  33. BoZz (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 12:04 pm

    Let us not forget to give credit where it is due. Our economy was pushed along by the US, with millions and billions of dollars post 9/11 to help fight terrorism and its effect.

    Not sure if all that money went where it was supposed to go!


  34. F. AHMED (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 1:30 pm

    @SUFI:

    i agree with “Pak_Stallion”.. Pakistan has great future!!!MashaAllah.

    it is indeed going through a troubling phase but we will get over it InshaAllah….

    We are not here to agree to a timtable of when Pakistan would come to an end….! BUT to discuss the problems it faces so that they can be overcome and Pakistan emerges stronger then ever!!

    even the headline of your Blogg is really out of taste!

    Pakistan will out last many other countries u thin are better and u look upto!!INSHALLAH!


  35. omar r quraishi (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 1:30 pm

    i dont admit that things are wrong in pakistan??!!!
    hhahaahhaaha


  36. F. AHMED (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 1:32 pm

    @SUFI:

    i agree with “Pak_Stallion”.. Pakistan has great future!!!MashaAllah.

    it is indeed going through a troubling phase but we will get over it InshaAllah….

    We are not here to agree to a timtable of when Pakistan would come to an end….! BUT to discuss the problems it faces so that they can be overcome and Pakistan emerges stronger then ever!!

    even the headline of your Blogg is really out of taste!

    Pakistan will out last many other countries u thinK are better and u look upto!!INSHALLAH!


  37. omar r. quraishi (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 1:32 pm

    yes adnan — now why dont you also google pakistan’s GDP growth rate for the past3-4 years and tell us what it is


  38. Adnan (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 2:27 pm

    Omar why don’t you mention GDP growth rate of Pakistan and how did it help a layman who earns 4000/month to run a family. What all Iknow that today Tandoori Roti/Chapti costs Rs.4.00 and daals are not cheaper than Murghi.

    Pakistan Econ Boost=Selling institutes[privitzation + selling Pakistanis[In name of Terrorism].


  39. omar r. quraishi (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 2:35 pm

    typical of a troll to deflect a question with a counter-question

    i asked you something simple adnan — try and be balanced — if you know what that word means that is


  40. king_faisal (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 2:58 pm

    its pointless arguing with google economists especially those claiming to receive wahi from ghareeb awam. instead read the following report to get a good idea of how financial mkts view the economy today. also karachi was built on trade and investment and we have most to gain when the economy grows. karachites are some of the hardest working and the most resourceful people anywhere. we should be demanding open economy because we can compete with any city in the world. only thing missing is self belief. woh bhee aa raha hai aistay aistay:

    Following is from KASB “Morning Shout” published March 14

    Economic Update: Re-assessing Pakistan

    ÙÄÇÉ M-o-M current account deficit has been on a downtrend since September 2006 lending credence to our current account deficit forecast of US$7bn (4.8% of GDP).

    ÙÄÇÉ At the same time higher foreign inflows have improved the country’s foreign exchange reserves position resulting in 0.5% appreciation of Pak Rupee since Jan.

    ÙÄÇÉ However in the trade weighted index, Rupee is overvalued by 2%. Therefore, we maintain our Rupee vs US$ exchange rate forecast of PRs62.20 by Jun 30th 2007.

    ÙÄÇÉ US slowdown and withdrawal of global liquidity due to Asian Central Banks’ tightening coupled with expectations of monetary loosening in Pakistan 4QFY07 onwards make Pakistan a good choice in wake of the global slowdown threat.
    Punch line Importantly, month-on-month current account deficit statistics have been on a downtrend since September 2006. This has helped us maintain our non-consensus current account deficit call of US$7.0bn (or 4.8% of GDP) for FY07. In addition, higher foreign direct and portfolio investment have improved the country’s foreign exchange reserves position since January 2007. Resultantly, the exchange rate has appreciated from PRs61.05/ US$ to PRs60.72/US$ in the last 2 months.

    So what does it all mean?

    Low C/A deficit + high capital account receipts = Surplus Balance of payments.

    ÙÄÇæ Surplus balance of payments means higher Net Foreign Assets (NFA) of the banking sector,
    which translates into lower long-term yields and stable exchange rate.

    ÙÄÇæ Lower long-term yields ultimately reduce the risk of re-pricing of equity risk premium, positive for Pakistani equity markets.

    Pak exchange rate protected by foreign inflows
    Robust foreign inflows of the past two months have protected the exchange rate from downward
    adjustments; however in the trade weighted index Rupee is overvalued by 2%. Therefore, we
    maintain our Rupee vs US$ exchange rate forecast of PRs62.20 by Jun 30th 2007.

    SBP to loosen while rest of Asia tightens…
    Domestic fundamentals vis-à-vis the region are not looking bad. Recent decline in Pakistan
    Investment Bond (PIB) yields has reaffirmed our view that SBP will start loosening the monetary
    policy from 4QFY07. In comparison the rest of Asia (China, India, Japan, and Korea) needs to keep tightening as inflationary expectations are rising.
    …which makes Pakistan a good choice
    For those pundits who expect a US slowdown and withdrawal of global liquidity as Asian Central Bank tighten, we recommend them to focus on Pakistani equity markets, as Pakistan.

    ÙÄÇæ Is largely immune to the global slowdown. Export to GDP stands 12% of GDP.

    ÙÄÇæ Not exposed to carry trades and foreign ownership of equity markets is below 5%.

    ÙÄÇæ Offers attractive valuations and dividend yield (5.4% vs 2.8%APR average).

    Additionally, GDP growth appears on track, domestic consumption remains robust and as we realized over our recent round of meetings with blue chip Pakistani corporates, a general sense of optimism prevails which is evident in the resources being committed to expansion by both local and foreign
    investments.

    Muzzammil Aslam
    maslam@kasb.com
    Ph. No. (9221) 263 5501


  41. F. AHMED (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 3:25 pm

    what was that…..????

    can people stop coping and pasting whote 5 -10 page articles on this blog….. giving references is ok….but posting whole articles!!

    give ur own opinion …don’t copy / paste others openion!!


  42. F. AHMED (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 3:26 pm

    if anyone wants to read books they won’t be on this blogg so plsssss save us from this……!


  43. Adnan (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 3:30 pm

    @omar: when you find someone who disagrees with you, you cal him a troll. My mistake I paid attention to lamer like you.


  44. Concerned (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 3:52 pm

    Thanks for the info KinG Faisal.

    And F.Ahmed people have been copy pasting news papers on this blog, this was in no way different.


  45. F. AHMED (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 4:02 pm

    @:))))

    then what can i say!


  46. Concerned (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 4:02 pm

    A simple story for you guys, about 8 years ago a renowned brand of electrical equiptment had to close down their factory in SITE because they had been incurring losses for years and could not take it any more. The reason for the losses was low demand and smuggling of electrical goods from Iran and Afghanistan.

    It was so bad tht the senior management couldnt even sell the machines and were planing on scrapping all of them.

    Tht factory opened up abt 2 years ago and is doing very well.

    The Fact of the matter is there are more jobs now, therefore people have more money, which leads to high demand and constant suppy (which does not increase in the short term). This has lead to an increase in prices. Basic economics for all those dumb a**** out there.


  47. F. AHMED (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 4:03 pm

    i guess we should stop reading newspapers when we have this blog!


  48. Sufi (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 4:54 pm

    Concerned, there are more jobs today. Banks are doing great and so is telecommunication. Loans are easier to get. It’s easier to buy cars today, or move to a bigger house, or have a new telephone connection at home.
    Per Capita Income USA: $42,000
    Per Capita Income Pakistan: $ 728

    A very significant difference, hence the fuel prices in Pakistan are almost twice as much high as in the USA. We all know everything in the economy is tied up to the fuel. Hence, everything is expensive here, many times beyond the reach of an ordianary Pakistani.

    We are doing good internally. But we are not competent in our exports. China, India even Bangladesh is doing better than us.


  49. Sufi (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 4:58 pm

    PIA is the only airline that’s banned besides other poorer African airlines. The issue was serious. One of a close friend’s father who is a station manager in the area told me that they have been telling the higher officials about it for a long but no one did anything about it on time.


  50. Concerned (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 5:31 pm

    @ Sufi just so you know the fuel prices in the UK are twice that of Pakistan, so dont compare the the US with us.

    Our exports are good but we are trying more, tht counts for something

    Our airline is in bad state but lets see wht happens. For the record, I ahve travelled with both PIA and turkish airways in Europe and the Turkish airways are in much worse shape. This could be a case of discrimination.


  51. king_faisal (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 5:33 pm

    actually neither india nor bdesh are doing better than us. bdesh’s exports this year will be about 2/3rd of that of pak ($12bn for bd vs. 18bn for pak). pak’s export growth is slowing because of unfair tariffs imposed by scumbag eu on products over which pak has a competitive advantage such as bed linen. btw bd’s gdp and budget is half of that of pak.

    as far as india is concerned, merchandise exports relative to the size of the economy is about equal for both countries. where india exceeds is due to the very rapid growth of its service exports (software, bpo etc). in addition, due to hype over the economy, india is able to attract very large inflows in its equity markets and thus has much higher foreign reserves than pak has. overall india runs a trade and current account deficit just like pak though pak’s deficits are higher. pak govt finances are however in better shape than india’s. pak debt/gdp and budget deficit/gdp is lower than that of india. furthermore pak’s gdp per capita is higher than that of india and that is reflected in the purchasing power. for example, pak teledensity and car per person are nearly 2x that of india. also from personal experience, i could not walk in indian cities like calcutta and delhi at night beacuse of the number of people sleeping on the streets.

    people should do a little research on these things unless the goal is to spread misinformation about pak.


  52. king_faisal (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 5:37 pm

    also to set the record straight pak’s gdp per capita last year was in mid 800′s and this year is expected to reach in the mid 900′s which will mean pak will be on the lower end of mid income scale.


  53. Taaha Haq (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 6:15 pm

    What does failure in cricket have to do with the success of the country?


  54. F. AHMED (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 6:22 pm

    I totally agree with “king_faisal” on this one…..

    that has been the main benifit of getting in the American camp and i do not blame mushi at all for doing that.infact i support it! i cannot c myself in the situation AFG/Iraqi peopel are!!

    just c Afg/Iraq?? they are not even talking about growth…just counting dead bodies!! and just praying to GOD that the voilence stops!! they would even give up their GDP growth for the next 10 years in exchange for peace!

    what we have is not complete peace but it’s not total anarchy either. we r much better of.

    but i just cannot digest what mush has been doing to the CJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he is pushing Pakistan in the direction of anarchy!

    One more thing! the jack ass “gee hazoor” ministers he has are doing him the greatest harm!

    i just hope he realizes that b4 it’s too late….and believe me time is fast running out for him!


  55. F. AHMED (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 6:34 pm

    a few days back i read the article & also saw the TV interview of Hussain Huqqani…the ex-ppp minister now teaching at a US university….

    i just can not believe pakistanisgleefully saying such things on the international media as if it was a big accusation…..he said that pakistan has infact been able to get at least 10 Billion USD in US Aid…and infact implied the mush has been almost blackmailing the US in giving Pakistan aid!

    well we all should be happy if our leaders are able to milk the US. whats wrong with that?

    But i have no respect for seemingly well respected pakistani writers (please include AHMED RASHID in this list) who come on western media and smilingly/gleefully try to expose pakistan in front of the whole world!

    i remember watching Benezir on BBC on their Doha debate program, i think last year, where she looked really sad that the US had attacked Iraq instead of Pkistan as pakistan was involved more on the nuclear poliferation then Iraq, and was a much bigger threat! she was almost begging the USA to attack pakistan and ofcource give her power!

    how can these peopel live with themselves….:))


  56. king_faisal (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 7:17 pm

    good point about the scumbag haqqani. true situation regarding u.s. aid is as follows:

    u.s. gives pak about $600mm a year which is actually a fairly insignificant amount for pak. this year pak will recieve about $28bn in foreign exchange inflows – about $18bn from exports, $5bn from remittances and $5bn from fdi. u.s. aid in % terms therefore amounts to about 2% of total in flows. if u.s. was to cut off this aid, pak can easily borrow this money from intl banks. u.s. aid cut would however cause problems for the army because half the u.s. aid is in the form of military assistance. aid cut off would result in pak falling behind india in military terms. moreover aid cutoff would also likely result in sanctions which would impact exports and fdi which would impavt the generak population.

    bottomline is that pak has to work work with the u.s. but the necessity is no where as great as its made it to be. in a few years, chinese defence industry will be more advanced and can easily meet pak’s requirement.


  57. F. AHMED (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 7:38 pm

    @king_faisal

    i agree to most of your comments but please note that the US can also squeeze pakistan by cutting of the lending channels as IMF/ WB/Asian ..etc are controlled by US.

    the same thing happened in the 90′s.

    so the 600 million $ don’t matter that much but the goodwill of US govt. matters most.

    and also the US caa curb pak exports to it’s markets and also put pressure on others to follow suit…etc

    all this is linked and all the strings are in the US hand:))

    it’s the big boss and i guess we have to live with it.

    i guess non-muslims states must have felt the same when the Muslims were ruling the world from the gates of Viena to Indonesia(1500-1600′s AD)

    Ottoman+Persians+Mughals+ muslim states in africa & central asia, southern russia…etc

    “jis ke tahee uskee bhains”


  58. F. AHMED (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 7:39 pm

    @king_faisal

    i agree to most of your comments but please note that the US can also squeeze pakistan by cutting of the lending channels as IMF/ WB/Asian ..etc are controlled by US.

    the same thing happened in the 90′s.

    so the 600 million $ don’t matter that much but the goodwill of US govt. matters most.

    and also the US caa curb pak exports to it’s markets and also put pressure on others to follow suit…etc

    all this is linked and all the strings are in the US hand:))

    it’s the big boss and i guess we have to live with it.

    i guess non-muslims states must have felt the same when the Muslims were ruling the world from the gates of Viena to Indonesia(1500-1600′s AD)
    …….
    Ottoman+Persians+Mughals+ muslim states in africa & central asia, southern russia…etc

    “jis ke tahee uskee bhains”


  59. king_faisal (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 7:50 pm

    f.ahmed, you are right on the money. the reason i bought up the u.s. aid topic was just to highlight one of the biggest lies spread about pakistan mostly by pakistanis themselves – haqqani being a very good example and ahmed rashid being another one. some people i think do it out of hatred and some for the money. btw its not only pak that has to do what uncle sam. other third world countries have to operate under the same parameters. problem with pak is that its a muslim country with bombs and with strong enemies like india. what makes things worse is that you have many pakistanis willing to lie about their own country. in comparison you never see turks or iranians acting in the same manner.


  60. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 9:55 pm

    Govt compares Pakistan with India about sugar prices,gas and then claim “We provide cheaper services” but ignorants forget the size of India and Econ boost of India. India is progressing more in industrial and IT field. India is huge,both in population and area wise so definately there is more demand in India this is why India is willing to get Iranian natural resources to fulfill the requirments. On other hand I don’t find any significant growth in Pakistan except Telecom[as the govt claim]. If buying more and more cell phones and cars is indication of good econ[as illetrate dictator claims] then country developed countries are POOR because they have less private cars on roads due to their good transport system.

    Talking about GDP, Stock exchange etc, these are just political stupidity. Fact of the matter is that a layman is suffering more today and can’t feed his family. poor is getting more poorer and rich getting richer. those who re singing praises of Mush should be thankful of Allah that they sleep on bed and use A/C and can buy Dahee of Rs.48/KG and Milk Rs.34/Litre today, Roti Rs.5.00 and daal Rs 50/kg. Try to live in areas like Orangi,Sheeren Jinnah Colony where they live like parasites then I would see how courageous you guys are to praise such econ policies.

    Today if Pakistan is doing anything then its POP Industry which produces no revenue but retards only. Is this not shameful for Pakistan that KMB authors just find instances of reporting opening of different food outlets but not branch offices for Int’l IT companies in Pakistan. I don’t know whether we will ever be able to read on KMB that “Oracle opened its R&D center in Karachi” or Google started its services in Pakistan.

    Even the telecom which govt claims is going high and high, we are still dependant on 3rd class DSL services at home because wicked PTCL doesn’t allow others to provide state of the art services. In India you can get a 256k line in Rs.500-800 only and monthly unlimited. This is something you can’t imagine here.


  61. d0ct0r (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 11:31 pm

    former chief economist Dr A R Kamal seems to be saying that economy is going down


  62. d0ct0r (unregistered) on March 15th, 2007 @ 11:44 pm

    economy is going up … and the indicator is that Shaukut Aziz and Mushrraf’s farm houses in Chak Shahzad are appreciating in price… for them its a good indicator that economy is going in right direction…


  63. F. AHMED (unregistered) on March 16th, 2007 @ 1:30 am

    @king_faisal:

    i can’t agree with u more.

    as fas as the iranians are concerned…pls note that it was the iranian opposition based in usa/iraq which broke the news about the Natanz nuclear facility a few years back b4 that the west did not even know there was any such facility there.

    the iranians have been under pressure ever since.

    by the way i do not mind that too much…the iranian would stab pakistan in the back when we are at our weakest…..they ar einvolved in baluchistan…etc


  64. ash (unregistered) on March 16th, 2007 @ 6:28 am

    to the people saying the debt has gone up in pakistan please google the us debt and get back to me …


  65. Sufi (unregistered) on March 16th, 2007 @ 6:43 am

    Ash, I will take your last comment as rather naive. Please don’t compare US debt with Pakistani debt :P it sounds ridiculous.

    1. US economy is some 100 times bigger than Pakistani economy
    2. They control all major financial institutions in the world, Pakistan controls none
    3. Everybody wants to export to US
    4. Everybody wants to invest in the US, no matter what. I am sure you realize how many want to invest here.
    5. US dollar means paper for the Federal Reserve guys, they can print all the paper they want and pay off their debt in a day if they wanted to :P

    lol. I am still laughing at your innocence :)


  66. ash (unregistered) on March 16th, 2007 @ 8:16 am

    that is exactly my point. If you pay attention to all the frontrunners for prez in the us today they are all making a big deal out of the national debt “we are selling our future generations to china” sort of thing and yes US debt is at an all time high infact it is the highest in the world. But as you just pointed out debt is NOT the best measure of a countries economy – ours or theirs. Get it sufi sahab?
    Oh and the US has a lot of international debt which they cant “print more paper” for, actually and just to point out for the second time on this blog printing more paper does not translate into getting richer :)
    Well at least you laughed.


  67. Ronin1770 (unregistered) on March 16th, 2007 @ 10:05 am

    situation of whole region is little shaky -


  68. Poo Poo head (unregistered) on March 16th, 2007 @ 10:58 am

    Ash, I agree that US has lots of debts but do you really think that some one expects it to get returned ?? If US defaults then whole world will get down with it. Just see Toky’s Nikki performance for last two weeks. Yen is getting stronger against dollar and shares of Toyota Motors and Sony are sinking. We simply can’t afford it.

    And US would always be super power as long as it can attracts the brains of the world. From Yahoo to Google to Oracle to youtube every one has got some foreigner as founder. God bless America


  69. Me (unregistered) on March 16th, 2007 @ 7:54 pm

    Not relating to the economy diectly, but I think the news of Khalid Sheikh Mohd. should be added to the list. He has sure given a bad name to Pakistan and almost all the major newspapers in thw world today had it as the front page headline.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2811855.stm


  70. ash (unregistered) on March 17th, 2007 @ 9:06 am

    poo poo …i reread my post to see why people think i said pakistan is in the same league as the us …we are not anywhere near that league …all i am saying is that debt is not the best measure of an economy it may even be the worst …
    re. the whole world going down with the US ? i think we are going to live long enough to see china and india overtake the west, and the sad thing is that we could be part of that too, but as long as we cant get rid of what is simply hatred towards other pakistani;s and utter disrepect for any kind of minority, as long as we worship tradition and the losers who think tradition is more important than morality we are going to be more like afghanistan.


  71. Arisha (unregistered) on March 17th, 2007 @ 9:12 am

    Americans have a saying “Dissent is patriotic.” Sometimes the people who criticize what is going on are the real patriots, not the ones who keep saying “all is well” and “things are getting better.”

    I wish there had been a Husain Haqqani and Ahmed Rashid at the time of the East Pakistan crisis. They would have woken us about what our government was doing wrong and how our country was being divided in half. Instead we continued to believe the unintelligent propaganda that BBC etc. were all our enemies and there was nothing wrong inside the bigger portion of our homeland.

    Incidentally, if CNN and BBC ec. are all so anti-Pakistan why does Musharraf always keep giving so many interviews to them? And why are they not described as wrong when the praise Musharraf and his achievements?

    Pakistan was going down in 1971 and we were blaming those who were reporting the problem instead of facing the problem. Please let us not do that again.

    And before someone calls someone a scumbag again let them remember that smart people respond to ideas and idiots attack personalities.

    As for U.S. aid figures, here is an extract from Reuters based on a report from the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) in Washington DC. Those interested in learning and not keen only on repeating preconceived ideas are welcome to visit the South Asia section of their website http://www.csis.org

    “US Aid to Pakistan Questioned”
    By Carol Giacomo, Diplomatic Correspondent

    WASHINGTON, Feb 26 (Reuters) – The United States has given Pakistan more than $10 billion in the five years since the Sept. 11 attacks but there is little accountability for how the money is spent and it has afforded Washington little leverage over Islamabad, researchers said on Monday.

    A report by two experts with the Center for Strategic and International Studies has highlighted doubts about the effectiveness of the Bush administration’s strategy of enlisting Pakistan as a front-line ally in trying to combat al Qaeda and resurgent Taliban militants.

    The CSIS report said the United States had given Pakistan more than $10 billion in military, economic and development assistance since Sept. 11 and perhaps even more in covert intelligence and military aid.

    Even when a cease-fire along the border was in place between June and September last year, Pakistan sought and received $100 million per month in U.S. reimbursements for troop operations “raising questions about what they are being reimbursed for,” said South Asia expert Alan Kronstadt of the Library of Congress’ Congressional Research Service.”

    So the figures cited above by a couple of people about US aid are incorrect and on the lower side.

    Last, but not least, I take exception to calling former prime minister Benazir Bhutto a “Bi***” by one of the bloggers above. If you disagree with her, express and explain your disagreement. Please do not use a term widely considered sexist, demeaning to women and a sign of the lack of education of the person who uses it.


  72. ash (unregistered) on March 17th, 2007 @ 9:29 am

    o.k . let me explain to you as a women why i hate BB.
    1. Being the first woman prez was a tremendous oppurtunity – what did she do? acted like the typical victim being slapped around by her husband, allowing him to plunder the country, having zero control over him and being so incredibly weak she could do nothing …and did nothing for the status of women in pakistan. on the other hand she reinforced every pathetic stereotype out there
    2.She was however able to start what was essentially the begginings of a genocide against the people of karachi…she was able to loot the country …she was able to let her husband harrass and threaten every second buisness in karachi…
    lastly biatch is a gender neutral term and the last time it was used specifically to demean a woman was maybe in the 1950′s. I wouldnt be too sensitive about that, if you are any way implying that out of womans solidarity we should say nicer things about BB then we wouldve had she been a man then i think thats a self defeating position to take.


  73. Arisha (unregistered) on March 17th, 2007 @ 9:54 am

    None of these arguments are relevant to my point.

    You are welcome to disapprove of BB, disagree with her or even hate her though hate is considered the lowest of human emotions. I did not ask you to say nice things about her, just to use civilized language.

    You still have to learn how to express your views with decorum. There is a right way of doing things and a wrong way of doing things.

    Just as you used an abuse for BB, King_faisal called Hussain Haqqani a “scumbag,” another abusive word. He should disagree with Professor Haqqani intellectually, maybe even write a book or two to criticize his views. This name calling just reflects inferiority of intellect. Again, I am not getting into whether Haqqani is right or not. I am just pointing out the need for civil language.

    Of course, much of what you say about BB is a rehash of propaganda of last 15 years. The fact remains, BB has been out of power for 11 years. Her husband has served 8 years in prison and not one of the charges against either has been conclusively proven in any of the 20 or 24 courts where cases have been filed and kept pending against them. Surely there is a reason why the propaganda against her has been kept alive but no serious effort has been made to prove cases against her in 11 years since she was last dismissed from power.

    We Pakistanis have to grow up one of these days. Someone having failed as a leader in our opinion does not allow us to abuse them. A difference of opinion with someone does not entitle us to deny their merit. Two wrongs do not make a right.

    Many of our problems stem from our tendency to think that ends justify the means. So-and-so is bad so we can do anything to them or say anything about them. In its worst form this attitude is what leads the army to overturn the constitution because the politicians are allegedly corrupt. In lesser form it manifests in you responding to my comment about bad language with a rehash of why you don’t like the person you abused.

    In civilized societies, process is as important as the result.

    Someone wrote above that there is nothing wrong with Pakistan fooling the Americans into getting more aid out of them. Americans are now getting angry because they have the leverage of aid and they also read blogs like this and know that Pakistanis are just after them for their money.

    This is the stark result of not giving importance to the right way of doing and saying things.


  74. ash (unregistered) on March 17th, 2007 @ 10:59 am

    actually you said “If you disagree with her, express and explain your disagreement ” if you hadnt i wouldnt have explained.
    One further qualification …biatch and scumbag are not even swear words and they were not targetted at a person who is on this blog – so again, i think you are being overly sensitive, and needlessly preachy.


  75. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on March 17th, 2007 @ 12:11 pm

    Ash’s mass swearing proved one point that the real enemy of a woman is another woman. :-)


  76. ash (unregistered) on March 17th, 2007 @ 9:50 pm

    lol adnan….dont even start that stuff with me by your logic a women may criticize another women ..but only men are hateful enought to call each other wh@res and pray for their death..
    i am not a believer in women and men being from different planets we are both the same not better or worse.


  77. F. AHMED (unregistered) on March 17th, 2007 @ 11:23 pm

    y does it bother some women if a women like BB are called names. don’t women call evil/bad men names??

    and another thing….if women like to have equality then they also have to bear equal abuse when it is warranted!

    just as men who deserve, face abuse, so should the women! it has nothing to do with gender!


  78. F. AHMED (unregistered) on March 17th, 2007 @ 11:24 pm

    i agree with ASH on her point of view on this issue!


  79. ash (unregistered) on March 18th, 2007 @ 12:02 am

    well said fa ..true equality means both in the good and bad , not selective.


  80. F. AHMED (unregistered) on March 18th, 2007 @ 12:15 am

    @ASH:

    yup…it really does, otherwise we are just plain hypocrites!

    evil does not know any gender…it only knows power!

    it has just so happened that men have been in power since the begining of time…….

    let women share power and in a few generation we would also have a few women Hitlers as well!


  81. ash (unregistered) on March 18th, 2007 @ 12:48 am

    yes you are right about that. I dont agree with a superior gender either one –
    I once heard this quote
    “true equality is when mediocre women are elected to high offices”…
    given human nature at this point we all have a lot of evolving to do, men and women .


  82. F. AHMED (unregistered) on March 18th, 2007 @ 1:12 am

    we sure need a bit of fast paced evolving:))

    well. good nite to all of you…i have office in the morning…sunday is a working day in dubai. c u all tomorow! Allah Hafiz!


  83. s khan (unregistered) on March 30th, 2007 @ 6:28 pm

    its all over, only around 4 to 5% of muslims remain, all others are karfra. As long as pakistan has women in charge and presidents and primeinsters who have mostaches and dogs the country will continue to go down hill big time. we need a real muslim incharge an not a bushe and blair ass licking fool



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