A man of the cloth?

“I sent my son to the mosque to learn the Qur’an,” Hussain told Daily Times. “Last week, my son came home crying in pain. When we questioned him, he said that Ali took him to his hujra in the mosque by force and sodomized him. He also said that this had been going on for many days. Ali also threatened the children against telling their parents.”

Incidents like these are probably played out all over Karachi day after day. It’s sad but true the danger that parents will expose their children to in the name of religion.

95 Comments so far

  1. Ramla A. (unregistered) on April 6th, 2007 @ 8:35 pm

    Congratulations to our society for ensuring that the child of the poor goes to the school of the rejected (so-called “Mullah” – in real, often the person who gets NO LOVE from the society). Fireworks erupt!

    I visited a home in North Karachi yesterday, in a not-so-well-to-do area. They told me of a family where the mother took charge after the father fled from India to Pakistan. She became rather regimented and dictatorial as well as shouldered the entire responsibility of the house hold on her shoulders.

    Of course, as is the custom of our culture, boy children are delegated little to NO responsibility of the household. So the lady brought up two daughters and two son in India – the daughters sew, work, and earn. The boys grew up into men who literally don’t move to pour water in their glass – remember our traditional male mantra: “ham to hil kar paani bhi nahi peetay.”

    Anyway this is my analysis of what happened. Ten years later, the family found the father in PK, and came over. One more girl, one more boy. the eldest brother has grown in a violent person whose first wife died as result of a concussion, and he divorced the second for returning late from a family wedding with her sister. He, of course, considers it below him to accompany a wife to her relatives’ weddings.

    So the wife is divorced at 2 A.M. and kicked out of the house of this “ghairatmand mard.” The second brother leaves home with his wife, also threatened by this violent potato. This lady told me the story.

    This man first joined a series of political parties in the area in order to perpetuate his tyranny, from which his mother and sisters even aren’t safe.

    Lately, however, he’s favored the “tablighi jama’at.” According to him, you can’t have Moharram ki nayaz – or he will hit whoever does it. But he wasn’t shy to accept bags full of nayaz ki biryani from a charitable distributor!

    The mother is now worried why none of her sons ever work. The daughters, one married, one widowed, are scrapping together a living by sewing and just good ole living by.

    The sons, brought up irresponsible, remain irresponsible. The second brother keeps dropping out of jobs. The third brother considers himself above a job. Why do they need to work, when their sisters will give their sweat & blood to keep the family going?

    So – my dear friends – this is one of the many, many stories that I have been hearing lately – and I planned to share with all of us here.

    I teach entrepreneurship and I have decided to teach business and family business to the ignored strata of the society. So far, my attempt is to talk to women first, and then gently convince them to raise their sons better and more responsible humans, as well as have dignity themselves.

    Point: this whole issue is so deeply layered, it is not to easily classified as “poverty” or “religious school.” Who is going to these political parties and these religious schools, and why?


  2. Ramla A. (unregistered) on April 6th, 2007 @ 8:45 pm

    There is no simple answer and none must be assumed. It’s best to see real-life from up close and personal rather than pass judgments. In fact, isn’t it beyond time to DO SOMETHING? Why talk? I mean who NEEDS another lecture to tell us how rotten we are? Been listening to this again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again.

    Did these again’s irritate us? Well it’s worse to actually listen to this Blame-istan.

    Why did the farmer of this country raise crops and the van driver drove us to school? So we, the mighty educated, English-speaking, grammar-correcting, fact-checking lovelies could grow up to remind the rest of Pakistan what a piece of #&^& they are?

    Really? Do we ever grow up with the notion that other than some patronizing “Duh-nation” we have a responsibility to give much more back?

    what have we given back to the farmer whose crop and chicken ended up as our dinner except blatant disrespect and the title of “jaahil?” What have we done for the van driver? Why did this bottom 98% or 96% or 56% of Pakistan serve us, the top of the pyramid of blame-dishing?

    What have we done? And what on earth do we intend to gain form blaming, blaming, blaming.

    Ask your maasi – she leaves her kids in the madrissah because her drugged husband won’t take care of the kids either – will snatch her hard-earned income, and beat her and the children up. OR, he will open his own religious school.

    Ever wonder where these religious schools come from?

    THEY ARE THE BOTTOM OF THE EDUCATIONAL PYRAMID WE HAVE – of the desperate, by the desperate, for the desperate.

    Oh but to WORK for these people – except to get a certificate of “I did volunteer work, so get me into this American University” – is below us.

    Because we speak English and know grammar.

    Get a life. In fact – give one. Stop finding a list of tiresome blames, blames, blames. Get out on a limb, and find people who are making things happen. Validate them. Hear them. Pack your bags this summer, and travel outside town. Don’t imagine the villagers and paindoos will attack you. Go to their homes. Talk to them. Learn about their lives. Understand your educated place in the scheme of things.

    We were given education by Allah or Mother Nature so that WE’D GIVE BACK. Just do it!


  3. Ramla A. (unregistered) on April 6th, 2007 @ 8:57 pm

    Here, get inspired. Learn something other than dancing in the desert castle from our neighbors in India:

    1. Future – India
    2. Social Work
    3. I Will Join Indian Politics
    4. Rural Development of India
    5. Indian Education Reform
    6. Social Entrepreneurism

    Give a life – back to Pakistan!


  4. Da-Man (unregistered) on April 6th, 2007 @ 9:05 pm

    Ramla: You are doing great work. Give a person a fish and he eats for a day. Teach him (in this case her) to fish and he eats forever.

    This post is about child abuse by the “holier than thou” clergy. It needs to be condemned regardless of which religion the clergy belongs to. What makes this story sad is that the clergy is expected to live by higher standards and be an example for the rest of us.

    CY’s religion is no ones business. Keep up the good work CY!


  5. Ramla A. (unregistered) on April 6th, 2007 @ 9:32 pm

    Well I think we need to listen to some encouraging stories. I was just checking out Flickr – and there it was again: a bad photographer apparently “bringing bad name to Pakistan.”

    PLEASE! What about a few hundred other photographers from Pakistan? Why make such a huge sweeping statement? Someone steals a photo and places them in their portfolio, and Pakistan starts bleeding.

    I am doing just what I think is my job and those of other educated people – but I am just TIRED of an absolute lack of encouraging stories. Blame, blame, blame – it goes.

    Kya kisi ko koi acha kaam karte huay dekha hai? Nahi? Perhaps the eyes are closed.

    It matters, actually. I am dead certain that by always finding the negative and not compensating that with finding the positive, we are reinforcing the negative.

    What is it? Glory? Calling black, black, and agreeing that black is black?

    Everyone knows that. What next? The next step is to bell the cat. Everyone knows bad things are bad things and bad people are bad people.

    Well. Ten points out of ten for finding out something is very rotten. 8/10 for agreeing. -15/10 for action.


  6. Ramla A. (unregistered) on April 6th, 2007 @ 9:38 pm

    It is NOT THE JOB of educated and skilled people to talk and talk like there’s no tomorrow. What did we get educated for? To call a child rapist bad? To agree, overwhelming, heart-bleedingly, that IT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN?

    Rocket sociology!

    My maid can do that. Actually, I find her wiser than most educated people about social matters.

    Now really. Shortage of topics to cover? Go out. find ONE PERSON who is doing something good for their family and community. Thank them. Talk about them. Work with them. NO, don’t throw money. DO GOOD. Find something proactive to do, and DO IT.

    We all know Pakistan is bad. Great! Now what should I do in the light of this heartening information!? Skin change with a new passport anywhere??


  7. Ramla A. (unregistered) on April 6th, 2007 @ 9:57 pm

    I really find NO PAKISTANI COMMUNITY on the Internet where one can sit in peace and learn something good – and decide with a group of people about DOING SOMETHING.

    It’s a drain on any positive energy and the dream of being productive and useful, to be exposed to a long never-ending list of blames.

    And in real life, it’s hard to meet young, energetic people who use their brain and hearts for what they were created for. Either one sees forever help-seeking cripples (otherwise completely blessed) or self-indulgent winners. You got your dream cellphone – great! – but what have you DONE!?

    I am starved to hear a good story. A happy story. A positive story. Oh no – not the kind that telco ads show us…. but a story of genuine faith and hope. Service to community. Determination to change.

    I want to meet good people. I want to meet people who are doing something. I want to pick up a paper that writes about them. I want to see something that doesn’t change my will to live in a feeling of doom.

    ++++

    Even the pathetic-est countries in the world are now doing something.

    You have a lot of time? You want to change Pakistan?

    Do this: form a little group; get registered. Go find people below poverty line, vet them (check their background). Meet with them often. Take their photos, collect their info, and share with your family and community and school/college/ office pals. Ask them to raise funds for a family to get it out of debt or poverty or to get them to start a tiny business. Loan that money to the poor.

    With more dollops of ample spare time at hand, go check on these people occasionally. Monitor their growth – and they WILL grow once they get some real help instead of critical nonsense.

    Take the money back – and give it back to the lenders. Ask them to re-lend. It’s called micro-finance. It is what is a proven way to change the world.

    Need more help?

    Check http://www.kiva.org. Be astonished at how every lame country is listed for micro-finance at every major donation site, but not Pakistan.

    Why? Because here we are, calling the pot black.


  8. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on April 6th, 2007 @ 10:51 pm

    haha urooj beyta sach kaha tu aag lag gayee? :-). I didn’t know that, it was you who told about yourself on same forum =) You believe that you are allowed to poke in others matters and when someone show you mirror, you start getting pissed? tsk tsk…

    I do agree with you that i was writing all ‘bullcrap’, after all my last post was all about _You_ *grin*


  9. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on April 6th, 2007 @ 11:30 pm

    Jay said:
    Above link to a Code of Conduct for a church

    On the other hand our Mullahs make you believe that their words and deeds are those of God. They will never confirm to any Code of Conduct or even the law of the land.

    Robertson: God “will remove judges from the Supreme Court quickly”

    Source:tinyurl.com/425kz


    Robertson said God told him during a recent prayer retreat that major cities and possibly millions of people will be affected by the attack, which should take place sometime after September

    Source: tinyurl.com/ykzevx

    But wait.. I should have asked you first that whether you even know who is Pat Robertson? ever heard of Ann coulter?


    Even the Jewish clergy has to follow a Code of Conduct

    “Jewish Protocols”- Ahem! Right?. Ever heard of Talmud?

    If someone acts like psuedo intellectual retard like many here then he wouldn’t hesitate to blame all Rabis and Pontiffs after experiencing Pat & Ann and reading “Jewish Protocols”.

    _Israel_ *nuff said”

    Jay,get off your momma’s lap. The real world is entirely different than your imaginary world.


  10. UZi (unregistered) on April 6th, 2007 @ 11:36 pm

    @ Ramla: Great work, dudette! Need to talk — gimme your email addy pliss! mine is urooj.zia@gmail.com


  11. JayJay (unregistered) on April 6th, 2007 @ 11:39 pm

    Peter Hollingworth AC OBE (born April 10, 1935), is an Australian Anglican bishop and was the 23rd Governor-General of Australia.

    On 28 May 2003, he resigned his office as a result of criticism of his actions in an Anglican Church report. The report stated that he had mishandled an allegation of sexual abuse by an Anglican priest during his eleven year tenure as Archbishop of Brisbane.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Hollingworth


  12. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on April 6th, 2007 @ 11:53 pm

    Bozz, I don’t know where do you live neither I know whether you even READ local papers. If one reads, he/she would find several instances of rape,child abuse,honor killings and many other crap in Karachi but this parsi kid don’t bother to pen about them at all. Why? because majority of incidents are done by non-Mullahs.

    This cy or other psuedo liberal don’t dare to pen about the filth present in posh areas of Clifton ,defence etc where these so called educated retards don’t hesitate to get involved in things which were common in west and now even they are bored of it. I am talking about Incest relationship and other similar activities which are not a “Big thing” in those areas. I know it because my friend’s friend used to work for one of leadig mag of Pakistan. Why doesn’t cy or other leftists write about it? because they belong to the society where such things are not considered bad at all.

    I would be the first one to appreciate Cy if he has guts to pen about every filth of society. There are no saints in posh areas nor there are all saints among parsis. Cy always make lame attempts to present himself a human activist while he’s not. This is why I don’t get surprised anymore after reading his posts.

    BTW, I do agree with you, Fallen and Frustrated.


  13. Original-Anon (unregistered) on April 7th, 2007 @ 12:36 am

    Well Ramla, some of us grammar correcting people have a heart too, you know.So here is an organization close to my heart and an encouraging story for you. If you are ever in Lahore, go and visit them – feel the peace and the light.
    http://roshni.org.pk/


  14. Truth (unregistered) on April 7th, 2007 @ 2:18 am

    well said Ramla.


  15. darthvader (unregistered) on April 7th, 2007 @ 2:25 am

    speeches sishpeeches –taqreer shaqreer and ayen bain shaien
    hoooraayyyyy to verbal-masturbation.LOLLLLLLLLLL

    cheers all

    to the Dada Movement
    Vader, the Dark Sith


  16. MB (unregistered) on April 7th, 2007 @ 10:39 am

    First of all thanks to Ramla for making it easy for me to answer. How?, I’ll let ya know.

    @Liberals
    It is very interesting that instead of discussing on an individual who made a serious mistake you are attacking the mullah’s. It could be fair enough if it was by a group of mullah’s or any related scenario.

    @HUSH
    No I don’t need to be a neutralizer. It’s just that the liberals & the conservatives both have few who defame the whole group. The mullah’s are no angels & nor the liberals & I am definitely in no way (lolz). But both are doing enough to damage the over all system.

    We should highlight the issues & do it fully & openly because being ostrich is not the issue but do accept that there are good souls in both parties. If you kick all mullah’s & all liberals because of few, then you are doing more damage to the few good among both groups.

    Also do try to go into the roots & find out about the wrong ones & its reason in both parties instead of irrelevant leg pulling.

    Looking into ones own color which has lately become difficult for both parties. While the mullah’s have nothing better to do then to teach/preach religion by force the liberals on other side are way too out of line thus both giving each other a chance to point fingers at, mostly in a wrong way.

    But luckily this time it was liberals turn so they are taking the conservatives to task. It’s as simple as that.

    What I wanted to deliver is to what RAMLA has summarized that there are many stories behind one story & “There is no simple answer and none must be assumed “
    And also :
    So we, the mighty educated, English-speaking, grammar-correcting, fact-checking lovelies could grow up to remind the rest of Pakistan what a piece of #&^& they are?

    And :
    Ever wonder where these religious schools come from?

    THEY ARE THE BOTTOM OF THE EDUCATIONAL PYRAMID WE HAVE – of the desperate, by the desperate, for the desperate.

    So many factors contribute in a big/bad incident. Instead of discussing that part you guys are bringing in the less relevant points.

    @Conservatives
    You decided to hit the author with his understanding of Islam & motives instead of appreciating that he brought it here.

    @Ramla:
    Sorry if i took your comments out of line or in wrong way. But i quoted them they way i felt their meaning.


  17. UZi (unregistered) on April 7th, 2007 @ 1:43 pm

    *standing ovation* :P


  18. MB (unregistered) on April 7th, 2007 @ 2:30 pm

    ones own Collar**


  19. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on April 7th, 2007 @ 9:08 pm

    Bozz, I don’t know where do you live neither I know whether you even READ local papers. If one reads, he/she would find several instances of _rap3_,child abuse,honor killings and many other crap in Karachi but this parsi kid don’t bother to pen about them at all. Why? because majority of incidents are done by non-Mullahs.

    This cy or other psuedo liberal don’t dare to pen about the filth present in posh areas of Clifton ,defence etc where these so called educated retards don’t hesitate to get involved in things which were common in west and now even they are bored of it. I am talking about Inc3st relationship and other similar activities which are not a “Big thing” in those areas. I know it because my friend’s friend used to work for one of leadig mag of Pakistan. Why doesn’t cy or other leftists write about it? because they belong to the society where such things are not considered bad at all.

    I would be the first one to appreciate Cy if he has guts to pen about every filth of society. There are no saints in posh areas nor there are all saints among parsis. Cy always make lame attempts to present himself a human activist while he’s not. This is why I don’t get surprised anymore after reading his posts.


  20. Ramla A. (unregistered) on April 8th, 2007 @ 2:22 am

    @ Uzi:

    Thanks – done.

    @ MB:

    A word said and a piece of art displayed is yours no longer. :) Yet your interpretation is what I would mean.

    @ Orig-anon:

    I meant to point at our Angraizi-obsessed educational system. I have been an editor, and in another life, would love to teach English language… or even Urdu. Yet I am astonished how this has become the sole craze of our schooling system. I was encouraging a lady to start a business and she discussed the idea of a kids’ summer school – while we were brainstorming courses, she said, most parents only want their children to learn English.

    While that upset me – I thought we could work around it… and ALSO teach children Urdu.

    Other than that – we need to hear more of the Roshni kind of stories. Indeed I want to hear more about how service to community goes beyond charity or non-profit. I feel that separating “doing good” from normal “life” and “work” actually compartmentalizes doing good. We don’t HAVE to give charity to do good. A far superior way is to align our thoughts, life, and work with the general good of the society.

    There is a growing school of thought that advocates “For Impacts” to replace “Not For Profits.” It’s simple: why should profit NOT go to doing good? Logically, this leave the BAD with PROFIT – not totally, but somewhere on that spectrum. Check FORIMPACT.ORG.

    Another practical application of this idea, especially for businesspeople, is here:
    Why Do We Do Business?

    I wrote this paper and previously shared on KMB at some some point.


  21. Ramla A. (unregistered) on April 8th, 2007 @ 2:35 am

    @ Cy:

    1. One of my comments with plenty of links is likely held up in spam filters – plz check.

    2. My dear man – you went to a top business school in Pakistan. You have a good job, I believe. You have the freedom to speak. What more could Pakistan give to a Pakistani? What do you really want? How do you think your negativity is being helpful?

    Don’t you think YOU fit the profile of the person who should be working to improve things and making them happen? Or if you’re somehow waiting to “get there,” at least give and get positive energy and hope on the way instead of dissing things right and left? Can you answer one simple question: Who can bring change in Pakistan?

    Why did this society educate you? Not so you can turn around and pick on everything from mithai to rapes. You are gives resources so you can shoulder great responsibilities.

    And this comment is not about you-you… but for all of us, even myself. My realization is that we have left the critical functions of the state and governance to the untrained, unwilling, uneducated (literally – and a 1/2 pun for you, my dear OA), unsystematic.

    It’s simple: either we change, or we will be changed. The papers today are testimony. Something is happening in Pakistan, and we no longer have time to blame.


  22. wasiq (unregistered) on April 8th, 2007 @ 2:48 am

    this newspaper is either an online or printed only for parts of lahore…our pakora wala at tariq rd who usually keeps newspapers from around the world does not have it yet….lol


  23. wasiq (unregistered) on April 8th, 2007 @ 2:58 am

    this is funny i posted the above comment at 01:48 am and here it shows 02:48 am….now lets see what happens now… Apr 08 1:50 am 2816 posts 29717 comments


  24. Ramla A. (unregistered) on April 8th, 2007 @ 3:25 am

    @ Orig-Anon:

    I am not saying we’re not doing good – I am certain that almost all of us are… and it’s certainly a part of our value system to be quiet about charity/ helping others.

    That said, what we bring to the discussion table or the public is more often this negativity.

    @ General….

    All I want to say is that, let’s validate something good for a change. Let’s not perpetuate negativity. There is a whole body of thought from ancient to the latest management guru who agree that consistent poisoning of the mind kills determination or otherwise diverts energy.

    We are humans, we need hope to get by.

    A story: once upon a time there was a blog called PakPositive.com. Poor chap was trying to do some good. In response to an overwhelming demand for “Why don’t you show the dark side?” (I mean by God, we certainly have morbid national tastes!) – he simply left the blog. I am not privy to why he stopped, but as a reader and part contributor, I can sense what drove him away.

    Yes, yes, heroes are made of tough stuff but we are all humans. Not exactly one person’s job to clean up others’ unnecessary negativity.

    BTW – sigh! – I was saying the exact same thing two years ago too:

    http://www.pakpositive.com/opinion/specials/2005/03/two-to-tango.html

    :(

    Good night!


  25. Cy (unregistered) on April 8th, 2007 @ 7:16 am

    Ramla: I checked and there arent any posts pending. As for negativity – I can only smile at the irony of all these people sitting around telling me to ‘do more’. Do you even know me? My story? My life? What I do? Where I do it? My values? My interests? My politics?

    I avoid commenting on my own posts for obvious reasons – take for example this Adnan Siddiqui chap. He’s so sure he knows everything about me, but betrays basic ignorance about the world outside his little shell with his odd hints at me being a Parsi. Like because he watched MTV once upon a time, saw a VJ named Cyrus and stupidly assumed that my name is spelt the same (hint: it’s not!) So, yeah, forgive me for not engaging people here enough – I guess I really am intolerant when it comes to dealing with deliberately, willfully inferior people.


  26. MB (unregistered) on April 8th, 2007 @ 12:35 pm

    @CY: What this meant: I guess I really am intolerant when it comes to dealing with deliberately, wilfully inferior people.

    And i guess Adnan has a very strong point regarding not bringing out the filth in a particular area. If your answer to it is by saying its none of our/your/anyone’s business on what they do in particular area, then you have a point but then those who treat their women like animals inside their boundary walls do have a point too which is, its none of the liberals business to talk on it either.

    The point is, both parties have extremists who are adding destruction. At the left are the conservatives.

    The leftists & also the rightist both need to move towards centre for a balance. But instead they are moving more far away from it & are once in a while engaging in you-did-this-wrong attitude without looking into their own collars.

    That’s the reason that instead of talking on roots about the incident in the post the liberals pulled every mullah’s leg & the conservatives pulled you understanding about a religion.


  27. Ramla A. (unregistered) on April 8th, 2007 @ 4:28 pm

    @ Cy:

    No. I don’t know if there is a more constructive/ positive side to you. I don’t know that you believe in anything positive despite all energy and resources you have the gift of.

    And *that*, my dear, is the point.


  28. Cy (unregistered) on April 8th, 2007 @ 4:48 pm

    Ramla: I didn’t realise people had a responsibility to reveal everything about themselves here. I did think that most would use common sense and not attribute certain qualities to people on the basis of occasional blog posts.


  29. Ramla A. (unregistered) on April 8th, 2007 @ 4:59 pm

    @ Cy:

    Basic business economics:

    To increase profit:-

    a. increase revenue
    OR
    b. decrease cost
    OR
    c. both a & b.

    All right. Don’t do more (deposit into the reader’s emotional bank account); but meanwhile do less (withdraw from the EBA). Simple.


  30. MB (unregistered) on April 8th, 2007 @ 6:09 pm

    hhahahaa….mmmmmm


  31. BoZz (unregistered) on April 9th, 2007 @ 3:00 am

    @ADNAN S. – Your lines got me thinking and after much deliberation this is what I have to say.

    Most blogs started here are based on a critical observation. And that is ok. Since if all things were right and in order there would not be any need to discuss anything.

    What CY reported was a problem no matter where it originated or surfaced.

    CY may or may not have a history of reporting only these particular kind of problems. But if the problem persists, than reporting it is valid and reason enough.

    But what really won the argument in favour of CY is this fact. That CY is a Pakistani and that gives him every right to speak on any problem afflicting any part of our society.

    That is or should be the fundamental right of every citizen. No matter what his race, creed, religion caste or color. Incidentally, this was the vision of Mohammed Ali Jinnah too when he fought for Pakistan.

    Unfortunately now we have become what we are, a so called, and let me emphasize here, so called Islamic Republic.

    In my opinion Muslims are no better if not worse than most other people of other religions. I do not speak of Islam but of us, again the so called Muslims. Deeds speak far better than words.

    Lastly but not in the least two wrongs never ever make a right. Morality and Islam both teach us the same.


  32. ash (unregistered) on April 9th, 2007 @ 7:21 am

    the islamic republic for whtever reason has a hindu chief justice is it possible other religious minorities are not allowed to speak about injustices done in pakistan? wouldnt that be a weird double standard?
    MB well said.


  33. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on April 9th, 2007 @ 12:57 pm

    Cy darling when did I claim that I know you? Whatever I said , I expressed on the basis of your several posts here. If you are “something else” then why are you afraid of not exposing your “other” side?

    ASH , as naeem said , in Pakistan minorities are free to do whatever they want. They just whine for nothing to do “Dhandora” of Mazlomiat. They are sure thankless people. They should be thankful that they are not in german and austria where talking against holocaust cost leading entire life in prison.


  34. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on April 9th, 2007 @ 1:07 pm


    In my opinion Muslims are no better if not worse than most other people of other religions. I do not speak of Islam but of us, again the so called Muslims. Deeds speak far better than words

    *nods*

    Islam is the best religion, with the worst followers (George Bernard Shaw)


  35. ELIZAMANTIN (unregistered) on April 9th, 2007 @ 5:25 pm

    “Islam is the best religion, with the worst followers (George Bernard Shaw)”

    A tree is known by its fruits. You cannot claim that a tree is the best of its species but its fruit somehow is rotten.

    A school is known by the quality of its graduates. You cannot claim a school to be the best amongst all but somehow its students always fail to graduate.

    A religion is known by its followers…


  36. SELF (unregistered) on April 9th, 2007 @ 5:38 pm

    ELIZAMANTIN, well said.


  37. Hasan Zuberi (unregistered) on April 9th, 2007 @ 8:08 pm

    All we are good at is … to pull the otehr leg.

    Cy, I know him from long, is much more patriot then any of us here.

    Patriot to the “Islamic Republic of Pakistan” … atleast he have guts to write something constructive.

    I personally think, the crap written above about “Mullahs” is more harmful then what CY tried to highlight.

    Ever wonder that your parents solomonised & received blessings for their marriage (Nikah) by the same “il-literate & un-educated” Mullahs … or …. ???


  38. SELF (unregistered) on April 9th, 2007 @ 8:29 pm

    Why do people keep bringing up these “belssings” of these admittedly illiterate, uneducated and some even extremist Mullahs? All these things nikah, janza, azan etc can and is done by others too. If at some places it is done by Mullah it is not that we can not do it without them. My father used performed nikah (of others :P) and said azan for new-borns even though he was as secular (not atheist – for those Mullahs who are ready to jump in) as you can get. So let’s agree that there is really nothing we need Mullahs for….at least nothing constructive.


  39. MB (unregistered) on April 9th, 2007 @ 8:47 pm

    @ELIZAMANTIN
    aap ne itni zabardast baat kerdi hai ki i need to repeat it , in bold


    A tree is known by its fruits. You cannot claim that a tree is the best of its species but its fruit somehow is rotten.

    A school is known by the quality of its graduates. You cannot claim a school to be the best amongst all but somehow its students always fail to graduate.

    A religion is known by its followers…

    Its useless when we talk about the good things about ISLAM. ISLAM without good followers is useless so stop talking about how good its a religion.

    A theory on paper & a theory on ground is different . What matters in the end is how it was followed on the ground. If it failed due to any reason the theory will be rejected too.

    Similarly saying Islam is best just because it looks best on the paper doesn’t mean the world should accept it too.


  40. SELF (unregistered) on April 9th, 2007 @ 9:11 pm

    MB: Quit trying to appear most intelligent here and come down to earth.

    It is quite possible that Islam had been corrupted in so many centuries just as other religions have before Islam. It happened before and it can happen again. So if we see the fruit rotten it could be that tree is rotten too.


  41. original-anon (unregistered) on April 9th, 2007 @ 10:10 pm

    @Ramla, I wish I knew what you were saying with your (voodoo) Economics. Are you saying authors are responsible for stroking all the readers and their egos?
    @General:
    It is unfortunate that every discussion turns into this battle of who does more, who does what, how Islam is the best, let’s beat up the messenger since he is not a Muslim; and since people don’t know what anyone else does they are then free to assume nobody else does anything … blah blah blah…
    The self-righteousness is knee deep here.


  42. ash (unregistered) on April 10th, 2007 @ 5:41 am

    adnan the holocaust was 50 years ago nowadays you cant compare the human rights (even relative) of religious minorities in Pakistan to Austria or Germany today.


  43. khan (unregistered) on April 10th, 2007 @ 2:55 pm

    Dear all,

    Its important to see, while commenting on anyone what is the message in the talk. NO ONE ON EARTH IS FREE FROM SINS. So if anyone is calling you towards the right path, accept its message instead of commenting on his character.


  44. SELF (unregistered) on April 11th, 2007 @ 3:51 am

    Here are some more men of cloth. I suspect CY would be blamed for this too for being non-Muslim and around in Karachi at the time this happened.

    Normally Police listen to Mullahs…but if both sides are Mullahs who should police listen to? Mullahs at it again…the thing they do best…fasad.

    کراچی: پولیس موبائل نذرِ آتش

    کراچی کے علاقے لائنز ایریا میں دو مذہبی گروہوں میں تین روز سے جاری کشیدگی نے منگل کی شب شدت اختیار کرلی، جس کے دوران پولیس موبائل کو نذر آتش کیا گیا اور فائرنگ میں ایک شخص زخمی ہوگیا ہے۔

    ÿßŸÜ ⁄©ÿß ⁄©€ÅŸÜÿß ÿ™⁄æÿß ⁄©€Å ‘ÿߟ܀şà⁄∫ ŸÜ€í ŸæŸàŸÑ€åÿ≥ ⁄©Ÿà ⁄©€Åÿß ÿ™⁄æÿß ⁄©€Å ÿ¨ÿ® ÿ™⁄© €å€Å ŸÖÿπÿߟ֟рŠÿ≠ŸÑ ŸÜ€Å€å⁄∫ €ÅŸàÿ¨ÿßÿ™ÿß ŸÖÿ≥ÿ¨ÿØ ⁄©Ÿà ÿ≥€åŸÑ ⁄©€åÿß ÿ¨ÿßÿ¶€í ŸÖ⁄Øÿ± ŸæŸàŸÑ€åÿ≥ ŸÜ€í €å€Å ÿ®ÿßÿ™ ŸÜ€Å€å⁄∫ ŸÖÿߟ܀å ÿ¨ÿ≥ Ÿàÿ¨€Å ÿ≥€í €å€Å ÿµŸàÿ±ÿ™ÿ≠ÿßŸÑ Ÿæ€åÿØÿß €ÅŸà⁄Øÿ¶€å €Å€í’€î

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2007/04/070410_katrachi_blas phemy_sen.shtml

    Now one sect wants to seal other sect’s mosque…sigh.


  45. Ramla A. (unregistered) on April 11th, 2007 @ 2:08 pm

    @ Orig-Anon:

    Oh no, my dear. No. I am not going to answer your assumption this time. My POV is stated quite at length.

    Secondly, I am going to respond to the blog post here without going through the screening room. THANK you.

    P.S. You have lamented at the condition of thoughtful writing on this very blog several times. How would you characterize that? Do you believe the right of critique is franchised to other readers, also? When you give yourself answer to these questions, many more answers will reveal themselves.

    @ Cy:

    The last line of the post left the field open for all kinds of interpretations. Some thought you attacked religion. I thought you passed a judgment at the social condition. You wanted to spark a debate – and it’s sparked.

    All right, let’s assume everyone misunderstood it. Then it’s an excellent reason for you to tell what YOU meant by it.

    When a person attempts to publicly address such an issue WITH THE INTENTION OF SPARKING A DEBATE they assume responsibility for their words too, i.e. address the consequences. That’s part of the “Devil’s Advocate” job description. What do you say?



Terms of use | Privacy Policy | Content: Creative Commons | Site and Design © 2009 | Metroblogging ® and Metblogs ® are registered trademarks of Bode Media, Inc.