In other blogs #5: Karachi & the Existence of God

Karachi is a proof for the existence of God. Without a merciful, compassionate, caring, and forgiving Lord, Karachi and Karachians would have long disappeared.
[No, not in the rigorous, logical sense of “proof.” Karachi and its people are beyond logic.]

Its always interesting to note what how visitors perceive are city as. The above observation is that of Shyakh Faraz Rabbani, a researcher in Islamic law who answers religious questions and teaches at the popular website Sunni Path. He is in Karachi these days learning under Maulna Taqi Usmani’s guidance and maintains the regularly updated blog Seeker’s Digest. What he suggests isn’t exactly a compliment, but you can hardly deny its accuracy, can you?

26 Comments so far

  1. KhiTorPit (unregistered) on June 1st, 2007 @ 12:14 am

    I am with you Zainub and completely agree with you as I know a couple of times that some strong flood use to hit Karachi but then suddenly it turned its way to a different direction, and then there was a time so many years ago that a satellite which ppl use to call skylape something was also about to fall on Khi but that also gone somewhere else.


  2. Pkhan (unregistered) on June 1st, 2007 @ 12:52 am

    What about your birth to this day?does this not show EXistence of GOD?Why only Karachi ?Who this Person is? who can not see GOD in other cities? or in himself existence of GOD?


  3. anon (unregistered) on June 1st, 2007 @ 1:06 am

    if there is a compassionate, merciful God, don’t you think he would prevent all the madness from happening in the first place? why make everyone suffer?


  4. FIZ (unregistered) on June 1st, 2007 @ 1:14 am

    Without a doubt, our creator is truly compassionate and caring, especially to the people of karachi. Anyone who has driven a car here should be able to appreciate that.
    Of course, some people will still not comprehend the delicate irony in the comment. Such people should read whats written in the square brackets. They are truly people beyond logic.


  5. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on June 1st, 2007 @ 1:45 am

    Karachiites are also live proof of what same Allah said in Quran.


    For each one are successive [angels] before and behind him who protect him by the decree of Allah. Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves. And when Allah intends for a people ill, there is no repelling it. And there is not for them besides Him any patron(Quran 13:11)

    Urdu:

    اس کے آگے اور پیچھے خدا کے چوکیدار ہیں جو خدا کے حکم سے اس کی حفاظت کرتے ہیں- خدا اس (نعمت) کو جو کسی قوم کو (حاصل) ہے نہیں بدلتا جب تک کہ وہ اپنی حالت کو نہ بدلے- اور جب خدا کسی قوم کے ساتھ برائی کا ارادہ کرتا ہے تو پھر وہ پھر نہیں سکتی- اور خدا کے سوا ان کا کوئی مددگار نہیں ہوتا

    I hope Anon would have got answer of “why do he make everyone suffer”.


  6. d0ct0r (unregistered) on June 1st, 2007 @ 1:56 am

    @Adnan kindly post the link of that Quran’s urdu translation site…


  7. A Self In Exile (unregistered) on June 1st, 2007 @ 2:13 am

    Well, not so impressive.


  8. Kashif (unregistered) on June 1st, 2007 @ 2:21 am

    Same stands true for lahore [Run, Lahore Run] and other cities. Quoting Nasim Hijazi “Qudrat kisi quam kay ijtemai gunah maaf nahi karti hay”


  9. anon (unregistered) on June 1st, 2007 @ 2:44 am

    “And when Allah intends for a people ill, there is no repelling it. And there is not for them besides Him any patron”.

    So if someone is sick, we should only just pray? Not take medicine, talk to a doctor, etc? And (to repeat a famous question), why does God hate amputees so much? If prayer can cure any illness, why don’t limbs grow back?


  10. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on June 1st, 2007 @ 2:46 am

    Doctor I didn’t use any website neither I do anymore. I use a BOT application made by a Indian muslim by using GAIM API in TCL language. Something which I discovered far later after my own attempt for MSN. Read further here:

    rafeeqmusk.googlepages.com/

    or add following IDs,depends on IM you use:

    Gtalk: quran.noble@gmail.com
    MSN: quran.noble@msn.com
    Yahoo: quran.noble@yahoo.com

    it contains translation of both hadith and Quran in 4 o5 languages including urdu. so I just searched Quran 13:11. This is a very sophisticated and rich application and offcourse very helpful :)

    For web, I prefer quranexplorer.com.


  11. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on June 1st, 2007 @ 2:59 am

    @doctor, sorry read that as “Quran 13:11 UR” where UR=Urdu, AR=ARabic, EN=english

    @Anon: here “ill” means Burai[evil] and please don’t read out of the context. The previous part Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves.’ does answer your medicine part.. I am not expert but I can try something for you. Just split the verse:

    Allah will not change: It answers your question that “we should only just pray?”, that is only dua will not be enough.

    they change what is in themselves– Consult a doctor.

    If some person is ziddi enough and not going to doctor then it’s not Allah’s fault. As far as asking about amputees, a long and way off the topic debate and frankly I am not eligible enough to satisfy you. Do read source book or someone else might be able to answer you. All I can tell you that Allah doesn’t hate anyone.


  12. anon (unregistered) on June 1st, 2007 @ 3:09 am

    actually, i read the translations from a much better source:
    http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

    each verse has 3 different famous tranlations, so if anything is contentious, you can atleast get the gist of the message by reading all 3 translations. also, an introduction to each surah from maududi.

    as for this verse, i think i read it wrong… it’s not about making people ill, but wishing ill on people. which, if you think about it, is roughly saying the same thing.

    the amputee question is pretty relevant, at least if you’re concerned about WHY you believe in a God… go to http://www.whydoesgodhateamputees.com/ for more details. i don’t want to make this a forum for debating the existence (or non-existence) of god.


  13. Imran (unregistered) on June 1st, 2007 @ 8:40 am

    Humko (maloom) hai jannat ki haqeeqat Lekin!
    (Dil ko Khush rakhne ko) Ghalib ye khayal acha hai.

    ~ Ghalib.


  14. Red_Munk!! (unregistered) on June 1st, 2007 @ 9:20 am

    @ PKhan: God is everywhere around us, but some people take it for granted.

    With time, more and more people seem to be drifting away from the teachings (not just Muslims & IN NO WAY AM I SUPPORTING THE EXTREMISTS MULLAHS here).

    The authour is not trying to bring down Karachi or the ruling party you so blindly support.

    It just points to the fact that despite things being so irrational & the situation so bad, people are still alive & well.

    In many ways this shows that the world is being run by a Supreme being—-& does not follow a certain pattern as preached by Darwin or as the athiests would belive.

    Thnx for sharing this Zainub :).


  15. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on June 1st, 2007 @ 10:38 am


    actually, i read the translations from a much better source:

    My friend, the website like other is just a source of sharing translation of others, PicktHall and Yousuf Ali’s translations are also shared by other websites/applications as well and they don’t say different than what I quoted.And as I said that you can’t understand every Quranic verse literally and out of context. Quran is easiest but not as easiest that everyone can just interpetate it exactly what it was said.

    @Imran: Same ghalib when suffered severely and lost everything including kids then he had no option other than accepting the power and existance of God and saying following shair:

    Na tha kuch tu Khuda thaa, kuch na hota tu Khuda hota

    Read the biography of Ghalib. It explains everything. Just don’t pick a shair which suits your taste :-)


  16. anon (unregistered) on June 1st, 2007 @ 1:01 pm

    i think everyone should read the quran to really find out what their faith preaches, and find out WHY they believe what they do, and not just listen to mullas and THEIR interpretation. ofcourse you lose alot of meaning if you don’t have the historical perspective… if anyone’s interested in reading a GREAT historical book on islam, there’s “No God but God” by Reza Aslan. it came out 2 years ago and does a more rigorous job than what you learn in islamic studies or from your local moulvi.
    red_munk: please read up a bit on evolution and charles darwin before you try to challenge him. the whole of modern biology, geology, archealogy, bio-genetics and medicine are built upon the foundations he laid down. the world, and life itself, is alot more complicated than you think. religion can possibly enhance your understanding of the world around you (if you’re so inclined), but it can’t discredit modern science.


  17. Allahditta (unregistered) on June 1st, 2007 @ 3:51 pm

    I don’t think Shaikh Faraz was saying this entirely seriously… a joke, folks, a joke… not without truth…

    I know Shaikh Faraz, and I know that he loves Karachi.


  18. Hasan Zuberi (unregistered) on June 1st, 2007 @ 9:01 pm

    @ Adnan: Thanks for sharing the links, indeed Quran in every way is for enlightment.

    @ Zainub: Thanks for another good post.


  19. Lucifer (unregistered) on June 2nd, 2007 @ 2:10 am

    What a silly, out-dated concept: The Existence and Uniqueness of God. It sounds like the solution to a differential equation! Wake Up! Wake Up!

    Come to Knowledge, Come to LIGHT, Forget Religion, Remember What is RIGHT …

    … FREE YOUR MIND!


  20. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on June 2nd, 2007 @ 1:52 pm

    @Anon: my friend your first para consist of lots of assumption. First you think I am/was student of some local madarassah or some student of molvi which is wrong. Last time i studied quran from molvi sahab when i was 10 years old. Also, you assumed that everyone in Pakistan take his islamic knowledge about quran from local syllabus only. I also see you are getting angry:-)

    But i tell you one thing clearly that just like you need a teacher for other subjects like Science,Social Studies etc, you need a teacher or mentor for studying Islam as well. Is it not stupid that we say “I can read Quran myself, i don’t need anyone else”. When you need a teacher for other subjects then why not for Islam and this is the reason Islam has concept of “Bait” on hands of some Scholar/Shaikh who can guide you. I say it because after studying things myself , I feel that I do need a mentor or teacher who can guide me properly. It’s not because Quran was not helpful. Its all about I am not capable enough to interpetate all things properly and in true meaning.

    Sure Quran is name of all guidance but several times individuals who didn’t take guidance from anyone else are misguided from same Quran, not because Quran had fault, it just they couldnt grasp it. Like my friend who quit Islam just because he couldnt understand how God made the entire universe in 6 days. My friend is very intelligent but too much intelligence is also harmful. Same happened to him, he tried to figure out God with his own wisdom and misguided. Now’s he is an agonostic. So, you can’t ignore the factor that Islam could be learnt without anyone’s help. If that was the case then Companions of Muhammad(Saw) wouldn’t have studied Islam from the Prophet(saw) himself who established the first madarssah in Madinah. The Imams like Hanifa(RA) were also in bait on several shaikhs(Teachers) of their times.


  21. FIZ (unregistered) on June 2nd, 2007 @ 4:58 pm

    I really appreciate the useful comments on this post, especially those by adnan. I also appreciate the fact that the comments on this posts have not degenerated into a shouting match.

    My own two cents on the common mis-conception that we can all study islam by ourselves by reading translations of the quran.

    1) As shaykh hamaz yusuf says, if you have a disease, you won’t go and read medical books and experiment on yourself. No, you’ll want to go to a real doctor who has studied and practised with teachers and has been qualified by a reputable institution. If this is your attitude for your body, then your soul is infintely more important. It would be foolishness to entrust your soul to your own thoughts and opinions developed from reading translations without guidance. “He who has no teacher in religion, shaitan is his teacher”

    2) Consider that even if you’re reading a translation to figure out what God says, you are actually putting your trust in one or two or three translators. In other words, if these translators were unscrupulous, you’ve taken knowledge from an inauthentic source.
    If you want to dispose of these translators, you’ll have to go and learn classical arabic in order to understand the quran directly. Guess where you’ll go to learn that arabic. Only true ulema have that knowledge and to learn it, you’ll have to subject yourself to them.

    3) The only person qualified to explain what the quran means, was the prophet himself. He is no longer here to teach us personally, but he did teach his companions. And those companions taught students who went on to teach other students. Thus, there exists what is called a chain of transmission from a genuine scholar back to his original source, the prophet.

    From the above three points, the conclusion is that one cannot gain knowledge of religion except from scholars. He who attempts to do so, will find himself misguided. As a result, he’ll end up either confused, or worse, he’ll leave islam altogether.

    One final point, the above comments are valid not just for religious sciences, but for any knowlegde. Even if you’re a PhD candidate looking to do new research in say… physics. You still have to go back and study what other scholars/scientists have done before you. In other words, you need to subject yourself to a teacher before you can go and learn and research on your own.
    As Einstein said, “If I have looked farther, it is only because i have stood on the shoulders of giants”


  22. Lucifer (unregistered) on June 3rd, 2007 @ 4:12 am

    We need to give up primordial misconceptions like “God made the Universe in 6 days”. Whenever we don’t have a precise answer for something, we like to say “God did it”, or “God willed it”. These are just meaningless statements that betray our ignorance. Why can’t we just “I don’t know”? Actually, scientists say that all the time, rather than pretending that they know everything (like the Allah Hafiz crowd). Whenever you ask that crowd how something happened, you can’t help noticing the glazed look in their eyes “Allah ki marzi hai”.

    Come to Knowledge, Come to LIGHT, Forget Religion, Remember what is RIGHT …
    … FREE YOUR MIND.


  23. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on June 3rd, 2007 @ 4:52 pm


    God made the Universe in 6 day

    Ever read Theory of Relativity and Different TIme frames? if not then do read it first because rejecting anything which you don’t know.


    omething happened, you can’t help noticing the glazed look in their eyes “Allah ki marzi hai”

    why is it illigical dude? if some employee is fired without any justification or even with justification, people just say “Boss ki Marzi”. When govt ban live coverage,it’s coz “Govt k Marzi”- It doesn’t mean whatever God does or done by humans doesn’t have any background. God clearly mentioned in Quran what he likes or what doesn’t so He takes action upon this. Offcourse an Owner of a Company is more powerful than employees ,similarly Allah the owner of everything is more powerful than anyone else hence whatever happens whether it’s liked by ones or not is done by Allah?


    Why can’t we just “I don’t know”? Actually, scientists say that all the time,

    Incorrect! Scientist give theory first. Several time their theories appear fictitious and far from reality like Aristotle’s “Stationary Earth” theory and Darwin’s Evolution theory. Science doesn’t always give correct answer all the time. If science was so powerful then it would have got answer to stay alive all the time.


    FREE YOUR MIND

    I don’t think your mind is free


  24. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on June 4th, 2007 @ 12:17 pm

    This morning I read these lovely translation of Surah Hajj which tells whether Allah hates us or like to punish us for no reason.
    (Quran 22:8-12)

    And of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening book [from Him],


    -Twisting his neck [in arrogance] to mislead [people] from the way of Allah. For him in the world is disgrace, and We will make him taste on the Day of Resurrection the punishment of the Burning Fire [while it is said],



    -That is for what your hands have put forth and because Allah is not ever unjust to [His] servants


    Urdu:


    اور لوگوں میں کوئی ایسا بھی ہے جو خدا (کی شان) میں بغیر علم (ودانش) کے اور بغیر ہدایت کے اور بغیر کتاب روشن کے جھگڑتا ہے


    (اور تکبر سے) گردن موڑ لیتا (ہے) تاکہ (لوگوں کو) خدا کے رستے سے گمراہ کردے- اس کے لئے دنیا میں ذلت ہے- اور قیامت کے دن ہم اسے عذاب (آتش) سوزاں کا مزہ چکھائیں گے


    اے سرکش) یہ اس (کفر) کی سزا ہے جو تیرے ہاتھوں نے آگے بھیجا ہے اور خدا اپنے بندوں پر ظلم کرنے والا نہیں

    So Allah actually wants to punish those who cross all the limit otherwise Allah always ready to accept Tauba of His followers.


  25. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on June 4th, 2007 @ 12:18 pm

    This morning I read these lovely translation of Surah Hajj which tells whether Allah hates us or like to punish us for no reason.
    (Quran 22:8-12)

    And of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening book [from Him],


    -Twisting his neck [in arrogance] to mislead [people] from the way of Allah. For him in the world is disgrace, and We will make him taste on the Day of Resurrection the punishment of the Burning Fire [while it is said],



    -That is for what your hands have put forth and because Allah is not ever unjust to [His] servants


    Urdu:


    اور لوگوں میں کوئی ایسا بھی ہے جو خدا (کی شان) میں بغیر علم (ودانش) کے اور بغیر ہدایت کے اور بغیر کتاب روشن کے جھگڑتا ہے


    (اور تکبر سے) گردن موڑ لیتا (ہے) تاکہ (لوگوں کو) خدا کے رستے سے گمراہ کردے- اس کے لئے دنیا میں ذلت ہے- اور قیامت کے دن ہم اسے عذاب (آتش) سوزاں کا مزہ چکھائیں گے


    اے سرکش) یہ اس (کفر) کی سزا ہے جو تیرے ہاتھوں نے آگے بھیجا ہے اور خدا اپنے بندوں پر ظلم کرنے والا نہیں

    So Allah actually wants to punish those who cross all the limit otherwise Allah always ready to accept Tauba of His followers.


  26. Lucifer (unregistered) on June 8th, 2007 @ 4:05 pm

    Theory of Relativity does not say that God made the Universe in 6 days! It refers to relative time frames in the context of an observer either travelling at constant velocity or accelerating. So, please stop mis-quoting validated scientific theories to support your superstitous beliefs from yesteryears.

    “Boss ki marzi” or “Govt ki marzi” have nothing in common with “Allah ki marzi”. Boss and Govt exist in reality, but Allah only exists in your imagination. Learn to seperate reality from imagination!

    I never claimed that Science has the answer to every question. I said that scientists don’t claim to have all the answers, unlike Muslims, who claim that Islam has the answer to everything. Various scientific theories are propounded, tested, and either accepted or rejected, depending on the evidence. This is known as the Scientific Method. In Islam, nothing can be rejected, no matter how stupid, because “Allah ki marzi” always kicks in to the argument.



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