For how long?

I remember listening to the stories of making of Pakistan from my grandmother and believed in them (as both my grandmother and grandfather had worked with Quaid-e-Azam and Liaqut Ali Khan and later had been in government as well).

Among the many stories of struggle and war was this story of what was believed to keep Karachi safe. I Had doubts, as both of my grandparents were very educated and did not believed in craps of “mazars and manats”. However the saints and the heroes were respected but the attitude of people towards their mausoleum was strictly condemned.

This particular story that I’m talking about is concerning the protection of Karachi.

Later when I grew up, I once found this book in my (Late) grandfather’s library which narrated how the unexploded bombs were found on the shore of Clifton during the India- Pakistan war of 1965. Indian fighter pilots when asked were reported to say that they saw some people in white dresses (like souls) who catched the bombs they threw, hence none of the bombs hit the ground and never exploded.

I do not remember the name of the book, nor the author, neither is the text written above the exact as read. It has been ages and I do not remember any reference to quote.

Times and again my mom used to tell me this story too.

On 26th June, I read this article in The Daily Times, which refreshed the old memories of the story, “The saints will save us” What’s the truth behind it, is a long discussion. This topic has been controversial and will always be, I don’t want to get into it. Just that “How long will the saints save us?”.

92 Comments so far

  1. Salman A. (unregistered) on June 29th, 2007 @ 10:55 pm

    who came first, the egg or the chicken?

    who can best answer that, science or faith?

    educate me :))))


  2. original-faisal (unregistered) on June 29th, 2007 @ 11:09 pm

    @ Imran: Thanks for correcting *caught*… I was wondering how many viewers it would take to get one who knew his tenses

    Arifa, about a year or so ago, I, alongwith another reader (original-anon), gained notoriety
    on this blog as being overly concerned with spelling and grammar mistakes by some of the authors as well as some of the people leaving comments.

    I kept at it for a couple of months but gave up in frustration because the battle seemed insurmountable. It was like lava flowing down the side of a volcano. The deluge of grammar and spelling mistakes just seemed to be endless.

    A couple of glaring examples are the correct usage of the words “then” and “than” as well as the words “there” and “their”. I also used to cringe whenever I would read the word “your” used where the word “you’re” should have been used.

    But no more…now I visit the blog, read the occasional interesting post and accept the
    English language aberrations as a fate accompli.


  3. Ramla A. (unregistered) on June 29th, 2007 @ 11:18 pm

    These concepts are not alien to contemporary mankind. In Pakistan, we are still going through the phase of world knowledge otherwise crossed by the world in the 1980’s.

    Come 2007, the world is ACCEPTING spiritual concepts such as that of karma (lingering effects of deeds – what goes round, comes round). No matter what book is shoved down people’s throats, everyday in daily life, people see and feel and experience things which are “inexplicable.”

    “Intuition,” once frowned upon by logic-oriented societies a fuzzy-wuzzy concept associated with women and “soft” people, has made a tremendous come-back, and how!

    Do we believe that plants “talk?” Not only that the “plants hear” part is already old news – with detailed programming on the matter on Discovery & BBC, but “plants talk” is the fresh news.

    Here you go:
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/06/070614-plants.html

    Perhaps one day we will arrive in the 2000’s Knowledge Land, but currently we are only going through watered down theories from the West, which are already rejected and deemed a failure in the West. “Religion vs. Science” is – ugh! – SUCH a borrowed concept. Cliche, and rather unfashionable.

    I wonder how can people proclaim to hold a belief in one hand, and its contradiction in the other? Why quote concepts from the latest read – why not examine the cosmos ourselves for a change?

    P.S. Know thy subject!

    P.P.S. Interestingly, I have met hundreds of people who feel their lovers and mothers are “with them” from the other part of the world/ afterworld. I’ve especially known people with strong connections to dead mothers through dreams, presences, and what-not. But these very people will deny having any belief in other dead people’s ability to “hear” from the other side.

    P.P.P.S. Decode Shakespeare: “All the world’s a stage…”


  4. d0ct0r (unregistered) on June 29th, 2007 @ 11:24 pm

    criminals and drug addicts control all these mentioned mazars and those pirs can’t even cure their diseases and get their own
    objectives achieved let alone granting others their prayers… most saints were no doubt very pious persons when they were alive but once they’re dead they have no control over happenings of this world and praying to them instead of Allah is sheer stupidity and shirk and many ignorant people do that not only illiterate but literate as well… a saint who don’t even have power to remove a fly or an insect from his grave how can he grant your wishes..


  5. Arifa (unregistered) on June 29th, 2007 @ 11:28 pm

    @original -Faisal: My fault too, I keep forgetting it’s not our mother-tongue just a complex that makes us yearn to speak better, a language that has us shackled for over a millenium.


  6. Arifa (unregistered) on June 29th, 2007 @ 11:28 pm

    @original -Faisal: My fault too, I keep forgetting it’s not our mother-tongue just a complex that makes us yearn to speak better, a language that has had us shackled for over a millenium.


  7. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on June 30th, 2007 @ 12:10 am

    @noc: Interesting documentary about Noah(AS)’s arch.

    @Jamal Shamshi: I wonder what do you say about Shrine culture? that is considering saints above God? Recently I experienced a ricksha wala who was suffering shrine fobia and shared very interesting thing with me. I got ill and I forgot to blog about it but now I think I should share it publicly. According to him,he left an arzi(Request) to TEEN HATTI WALAY Baba to save Karachi and according to him “aap k bhai k darkhuwast qabool huwi”-He was an interesting character, a very Interesting one I must say who considered saints figure aboev sahabas and Nabi(saw)


  8. Jamal Shamsi (unregistered) on June 30th, 2007 @ 12:21 am

    @ Salman A. —-

    who came first, the egg or the chicken?

    who can best answer that, science or faith?

    educate me :))))

    Posted by: Salman A. at June 29, 2007 10:55 PM

    — Salman A. WHO CAME First — You or your…??

    – that answers your very own question, – Origin – is what existed before anything, –


  9. darthvader (unregistered) on June 30th, 2007 @ 12:41 am

    yet another dumb post by Unaiza , oh BTW did i tell you all that MY grandparents worked with Quaid-e-Azam and Liaquat Ali khan too and than later saved Pakistan on numerous occasions by volunteering to work in high places in the government for free ?? …well if i did’t than I am telling you now …*grinnnnnnnnn****

    cancel my subscription to the resurrection
    send my credntials to the house of detention
    i got some friends insideeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

    well..above lines have nothing to do with nothing..just that i am listening to the lizard king right now.

    peace love and rusmalai


  10. Arifa (unregistered) on June 30th, 2007 @ 12:58 am

    I better find out what my grandparents were upto in those days (besides making babies)


  11. Salman A. (unregistered) on June 30th, 2007 @ 1:46 am

    @darthvader:
    I am already rich in love and peace so will take just rusmalai. Thanks :)

    @Arifa:
    On your earlier comment on patriotism, KUDOS!!

    @Jamal Shamsi:
    I wanted to hear an answer in favor of religion which I think I did.

    @original-faisal:
    thanks for your tips on ingles, i mean english, or should I say English? any way, I will try to remember them all.

    AH


  12. Salman A. (unregistered) on June 30th, 2007 @ 1:57 am

    one more,
    @Balma:
    Muslims achieved ONLY few things in the past century, Pakistan being one of them.

    Say it loud & clear:
    Dil Dil Pakistan
    Jaan Jaan Pakistan


  13. Original-Anon (unregistered) on June 30th, 2007 @ 2:46 am

    What have they done to the earth?
    What have they done to our fair sister?
    Ravaged and plundered and ripped her and bit her
    Stuck her with knives in the side of the dawn
    And tied her with fences and dragged her down


  14. Balma (unregistered) on June 30th, 2007 @ 3:08 am

    * Muslims achieved ONLY few things in the past century, Pakistan being one of them.

    ****** Bhayyaa, mai’n bhee yehee keh keh kar thak gayaa hoo’n. Muslims have very low rate of achievements, and it is no surprise that Pakistan bhee aik ma’arkaa (achievement) lagtaa hae….estandards hee itnay ghaTyaa hai’n!


  15. Balma (unregistered) on June 30th, 2007 @ 3:19 am

    *Arifa wrote
    To all the Salmans and Balmas of Pakiland…. it’s people like you who make people like us wonder why so many of our ancestors worked hard
    …stuff deleted….

    ***** My response

    Lady, naam arifa hae, baatai’n bhee aarifo’n vaali karo….what is this patriotism in blood kind of ghair aarifaanah bakvaas?
    You almost sound like Budnazir, who thought she knew if people’s blood is good or bad….


  16. darthvader (unregistered) on June 30th, 2007 @ 3:51 am

    Persian night, babe
    see the light, babe
    Save usssssssssssssssss
    jesusssssssssssssssss
    save usssssssss
    So when the music is over
    When the music is over
    When the musics over
    Turn out the lights
    Turn out the lights
    Turn out the lights
    Well the music is your special friend
    Dance on fire as it intends
    Music is your only friend
    Until the end


  17. nocturnal (unregistered) on June 30th, 2007 @ 5:06 am

    @ arifa

    Science, is a by-product of religion.

    hahaha. who told you this????

    i pity COPERNICUS and GALILEO who faced persecution just because Church thought they were heretics.

    Some famous scientists were burnt alive due to their progressive thoughts which were against the religion.

    BUT AS YOU SAID SCIENCE IS A BY_PRODUCT of religion,then I wonder why western clergy’d been messing with science for centuries?????


  18. Zeeshan Syed (unregistered) on June 30th, 2007 @ 8:49 am

    I don’t think we need an enemy from outside to finish it. We are already doing it for them. Just a glance at KMB and you can tell this so easily!

    Unaiza should be banned from posting ANYTHING!


  19. Zeeshan Syed (unregistered) on June 30th, 2007 @ 8:53 am

    NOCTURNAL: Dude you gave a link from inside your gmail mailbox! I’ll need your userid and password to see the image and so would all other visitors here at KMB. I don’t think you would want to do that so it’d be best if you could share the pic posted elsewhere or upload it on a free image hosting website (google it and you’ll know what I am talking about)


  20. ALAM (unregistered) on June 30th, 2007 @ 9:14 am

    My gradparents were trying to kill Jinnah and Liaqat, but then they got busy producing my parents


  21. udass (unregistered) on June 30th, 2007 @ 11:15 am

    @UNAIZA
    it’s ALAKH NAGRI, Mumtaz Mufti’s autobiography second part
    and it’s not Karachi, rather Lahore in 1965 war


  22. JayJay (unregistered) on June 30th, 2007 @ 2:31 pm

    NOCTURNAL@: There is a difference between hearsay and fact. Unless you provided an authentic source to your Iraqi episode, it will be considered a fiction or worse. Consider:

    My understanding is that Iraq, Mesopotamia then, was a British protectorate from the World War I, until after the end of the World War II. It includes the year of 1940, the year of the “miracle”.

    The other fact is that Britain and Germany were at war, the World Ward II, from September 1939 to April 1945.

    It is impossible for an Iraqi government, falling under the suzerainty of Britain, would rely on the experts from an enemy country, Germany, for documenting the stated “miracle”.

    Bodies have to decay with time. If anything can halt the natural phenomenon it will be use of chemicals or any other such technical means, not one religion, not one’s piety.

    Sydney Tree: What will you say of millions of trees in the world which are not prostrating? Million, rather billions, of kafir trees and only one pious tree.


  23. unaiza nasim (unregistered) on June 30th, 2007 @ 3:41 pm

    @ Balma: Dear mr balma, take it as showing off for u narrow minded guys, big deal huh?
    As for clarification to the rest, The authencity of the stories then heard by my grandmother (My grandfather died in mid 1970’s) is based on teh fact that they themselves have participated actively in the freedom struggle and had a social circle which for me atleast is highly respectable/trustworthy.


  24. unaiza nasim (unregistered) on June 30th, 2007 @ 4:06 pm

    @UDASS: No man, I have read that book alakh nagri and Ali poor ka aili both its not from that book.
    But yes you may be right, as many other writers (other than the one that I read) must have published their thoughts in their books.


  25. Abdul Sami (unregistered) on June 30th, 2007 @ 4:17 pm

    Bodies have to decay with time.

    Read something from Christian faith if u r reluctant to accept anything from Islamic religion.
    http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/8437/incorrupt.html


  26. Original-Anon (unregistered) on June 30th, 2007 @ 7:55 pm

    Oh tell me where your freedom lies
    The streets are fields that never die
    Deliver me from reasons why
    You’d rather cry, Id rather fly


  27. Arifa (unregistered) on June 30th, 2007 @ 8:35 pm

    ***** My response

    Lady, naam arifa hae, baatai’n bhee aarifo’n vaali karo….what is this patriotism in blood kind of ghair aarifaanah bakvaas?
    You almost sound like Budnazir, who thought she knew if people’s blood is good or bad….

    @BALMA: Your Chinese is Greek to me :P


  28. nocturnal (unregistered) on June 30th, 2007 @ 9:34 pm

    @JAY JAY-

    If only you could read what i read,

    I wrote regarding teh german company,
    “i am not sure about this bit”
    reason why i wrote this not becuz it was german of persian or whatever but THE FACT IS THERE IS NO VIDEO EVIDENCE HAS EVER APPEARED ON THE MEDIA.

    AND AS YOU SAID AS IN 1940S BRITAIN HAD TEH CONTROL OF MESOPOTAMIA THATS WHY ANYTHING THAT OCCURED IN THAT YEAR WAS DUBIOUS SO MY FRIEND INDIAN SUBCONTINENT WAS ALSO IN BRITAIN RULE, IT MEANS ANYTHING THAT HAPPENED IN UK’S RULE OVER SUBCONTINENT WAS DUBIOUS AS WELL.

    and here are some pic and clips abt,

    TREE PIC:
    http://www.anwary-islam.com/a-pic/p-tree1.jpg

    THIS CLIP RELASED BY NASA, WHEN THE FIRST MAN-MISSION TO MOON TOOK THE PICTURE OF EARTH FROM THE SPACE, WHAT TEH CAPTURED ON THERI CAMERA IS IN THIS CLIP,

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4e2m-8U3D4s&mode=related&search

    and what would you say abt. NOAH’s ark discovery I provided that link before.


  29. Keep Walking! (unregistered) on June 30th, 2007 @ 9:36 pm

    Waste of time on KMB. Believe in God and keep walking; change with times but don’t change your values..


  30. nocturnal (unregistered) on June 30th, 2007 @ 10:33 pm

    @ ABDUL SAMI

    great link A SAMI,

    I found the documentary of saint Bernadette on you tube, her body is kept in a glass case in France.

    LINK to the documentary,

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XvVneF_eD9Y&mode=related&search=

    and following is the narration of teh incident occured in IRAQ, BODIES OF PROPHETS(peace be uopn him) were exhumed,

    http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1865


  31. Arifa (unregistered) on July 1st, 2007 @ 7:50 am

    @Nocturnal: The person who told me Science is a by-product of religion was definitley not the same person who told you Galileo was more informed than Koran ……
    Western clergy CREATED their own Christianity and tainted it with lies hence couldn’t keep up with the new discoveries being made that defied their rleigion and brought them no money.. Popes were loosing too much money…..
    Our religion just gets proven right everytime a valid theory comes into notice….. need I say more?


  32. JayJay (unregistered) on July 1st, 2007 @ 8:46 am

    MOHAMMAD AKRAM R. — Very impressive. You must be a real scholar, rather a saint. Please keep enlightening us mortals with your dreams and travels to the other world. Thanks for sharing your views.


  33. nocturnal (unregistered) on July 1st, 2007 @ 11:56 pm

    @Arifa-
    ur comment,

    The person who told me Science is a by-product of religion was definitley not the same person who told you Galileo was more informed than Koran ……

    where did I say that Galileo was more informed than KORAN????

    oH! i reckon it’s the same WELL INFORMED person who told you science was a by product of religion.

    btw who’s this person??? just curious.11111


  34. Arifa (unregistered) on July 2nd, 2007 @ 5:27 am

    @Nocturnal: The best defense is an offense…and you just did that :) *low*
    You didn’t say that Galileo was more knowledgeable than Koran… you IMPLIED that by saying: Galileo and Copernicus were persecuted by the Church… We as muslims believe, and are taught that all that needs to be known in this world about EVERY subject matter that you can think of, is right there in the Koran…. what the church does and did to preserve its standing amongst the believers has got nothing to do with Muslims and their beliefs and hence science for us is still a way to decipher all those codes in Koran that would tell us the real secrets of life.
    It’s common knowledge that Muslims can find all the answers in their holy book and that’s where I got all my answers.. definitely not from the person who has been telling you STUFF.


  35. BoZz (unregistered) on July 2nd, 2007 @ 12:42 pm

    I sincerely suggest to everyone one, especially those still residing in the 14th century to read this Sundays letter by Mr. Cowsajee.

    Here is the link – http://www.dawn.com/weekly/cowas/cowas.htm

    or just pick up yesterdays paper and read about the national Muslim mindset.


  36. Bolshevik (unregistered) on July 2nd, 2007 @ 3:16 pm

    Someone mentioned something about the virgin Mary up there. I fink it was Jamal Shamsi who said something along the lines of “Jesus was born to Virgin Mary – Does science acknowledge that ????”

    Bhai jaan, the laws in Pakistan don’t acknowledge that either. If Jesus were born in Pakistan abhi, he’d be born in prison. Why? Because, my friend, going by Pakistani laws, pregnancy is “proof” of Zina. Ze Virgin Mary would therefore be serving time in prison for alleged Zina.


  37. farhan777@gmail.com (unregistered) on July 2nd, 2007 @ 5:56 pm

    @arifa-

    ur own words,
    It’s common knowledge that Muslims can find all the answers in their holy book and that’s where I got all my answers..

    if you’ve got all ur answers from QURAN then cud you help me find an answer to the following question from the QURAN plz,

    what causes the wind storm or cyclones???


  38. Salman A. (unregistered) on July 2nd, 2007 @ 8:16 pm

    farhan bhai,
    what kind of crack are you smoking these days?


  39. Arifa (unregistered) on July 2nd, 2007 @ 9:06 pm

    @farhan: Did I fail to mention that I am no scholar of the KORAN? I merely mentioned it’s common knowledge that Muslims look/and should look for all answers in Koran as it has all what you will be looking for…. I haven’t had the URGE to find an answer for Cyclones and storms yet.. Care to look it up yourself? or do you want to wait till I decide to look for it and I can enlighten you then?


  40. farhan (unregistered) on July 3rd, 2007 @ 3:12 am

    @arifa
    I am no scholar of the KORAN.

    oh! i thought you were, the way you wrote that everything was in QUR’AN made me think so.

    some poet wrote a perfect line to describe people like you,

    HAIN KWAKIB KUCH, NAZER ATAY HAIN KUCH…..


  41. Arifa (unregistered) on July 3rd, 2007 @ 3:22 am

    @Farhan: You are arguing for the sake of argument… the MISRA doesn’t apply to me if you know its meaning at all….
    I think I have said it at least thrice that IT’S COMMON KNOWLEDGE… a scholar would know more than common stuff….


  42. farhan (unregistered) on July 3rd, 2007 @ 3:25 am

    @salman

    SAME ONE THAT YOU SELL UNDER THE GUISE OF CRIPPLED BEGGAR AT GRUMANDIR.

    You are lucky man! your BEGGING BOWL always remain full with LOOSE CHANGE while your pockets with the money of stoners like us ;)

    DOUBLE KAMAI,keep it up



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