T2F fatigue
T2F has gotten a lot of flak out here, so this is for all the T2F haters: it is simply the most crass, commercial project imaginable. If T2F becomes the “cultural hotspot” of Karachi, may god help us all.
Consider. T2F has very successfully managed to position itself as having an artistic/intellectual/sophisticated side where the coffee is cheap and the ideas rich. But then I actually went to the place and found it to be as unwelcoming as a hospital cafeteria. The spotless, multicoloured walls (other than the incomplete mural), the uncomfortable wooden stools, the awful lighting, all tucked away in the most soulless, corporate office block imaginable. Zamzama isn’t a pretty place at all, but the cafes there at least manage to mask the ugliness of the buildings that house them.
And, it isn’t exactly the cheapest thing out there. I went there in a group of three for a recently organised “jazz evening” and we had to fork over nearly a thousand rupees to gain entrance. If you thought that would buy you at least a chair for the evening, you’d be mistaken: the place was so crowded that it was barely possible to find a spot to stand on. I guess when it comes to making money, small issues such as overcrowding and fire hazards can be disregarded – so much for the “new awakening” of T2F.
I didn’t go for the Science Ka Adda event advertised here, but was I the only one who thought that perhaps the 100 rupee entrance was 100 rupees too much for an educational lecture? Don’t get me wrong, 100 rupees isn’t a lot, but then why charge a fee to have others come and listen to the exchange of ideas? Surely if the event is stimulating enough, people will order a cup of coffee or at least a Coke?
Which is what my biggest problem with the place is: it is commodifying the arts, science and culture. Cafes on Zamzama make no bones about what they represent and one has to at least grudgingly respect them for that. But T2F is doing something more insidious: it is trying to capture the moral high ground and then carve it up and sell it back to the people of this city.
These are obviously my personal views, but I for one would be happy to see the back of T2F.
As for the Rs. 100 issue, i think its important to put this price up to make sure 100’s of people donot end up to fill 4 dozen chairs, but again the complain is if all the guests are pre-inviated via mailing list and when you have hardly 4 dozen chairs then whats the purpose of advertising all this at metblogs?
If you have enough room to accomodate everyone then the much needed advertisement is somewhat ok, but its harsh when you advertise and people end up at t2f and then they hardly find a place to sit.
Apart from it the most discouraging fact that i personally observe is that the visitors are a specific group of people. You may find the same bunch of people ending over there everytime making it something as a society level gathering. The real object has to be to attract diversified group of people.
Quote: The real object has to be to attract diversified group of people.: Unquote
Sajid, care to explain your above comment – how T2F should do the above, other than advertising in the mass media.
And, what is your definition of a ‘diversified’ group? The last time, I went to T2F to listen to Cowasjee, I saw a very diversified group.
Cyril, it looks like that you either piched by Sabeen or Zaheer sahab, at your last sojourn at T2F, hence, such a negative post.
Actually i too bought tickets for the Jazz session @ 1,000 for 2 persons but when i walked in the door there was no seating available, we came back and took a full refund.
I agree with Sajid that Rs. 100 is essential for keeping out the crowd who might be there just for the airconditioning !
Another thing i fully agree with CY, the place is one ugly building from the outside, looks like a govt office or something, let hope the T2F guys do something about it very soon.
I went there twice, once alone 2nd time on insistance of my little one, and I have no plans to visit the place again, place seems like Haunted,
Now it seems am not alone who is not attracted to that place be it Cowasjee or Hoodbhoy.
Cheers !
arsalan — plz grow up — stop assuming that cyril has something personal against the owners of T2F — the ‘mass media’ btw arsalan is not this blog —
finally, someone other than me has said these things — though i should point out that i have not been there — i also thought why charge 100 rupees to hear pervez hoodbhoy speak — esp since he speaks often at seminars, which are usually open to the public for free — also, if a charge of rs 100 is being levied, is it because the speaker is being paid a fee for the lecture?
the point is that T2F, like any other place, is not a charity, though those who run it seem to sometimes indicate that it is — hence the refrain that they charge much less than what zamzama cafes charge — though they clearly its much more what khairabad cafe near my office (on chundrigar road) would charge
There’s a cafe on Chundrigar road that serves coffee??!!! WHERE??? Tell me tell me tell me, you just might save my life!!! :O We’re moving to Chundrigar road too (on August 14, hopefully) — right beside the MCB Tower — and I’m making a list of food places and coffee places around there. The peons at our office make tea that tastes like a camel peed in it or something, and when you work 15 hours a day, caffeine and nicotine become major sources of sustenance (and sanity-maintenance)… :-/
As I said in the last T2F advertisement on KMB … too much publicising kills the brand.
T2F might be a good venture … but they have over-done publicising themselves … and here on KMB I wonder why our authors are racing to post its event when one can receive their direct mail by subscribing to their website.
I must say … a very good post Cyril.
Can come one please stop Bolshivek from commenting, her posts are enough. She is hell of an irritating person who think she is super cool.
Oh that’s one gooooddd post! Well done!
I can’t help but to HIGHLY disagree with KASHIF-X when he said the following
I agree with Sajid that Rs. 100 is essential for keeping out the crowd who might be there just for the airconditioning!
Why? Why can’t a person enjoy airconditioning? What’s wrong with that? That my friend is the mentality which has held us back for so long! We just don’t want to “GIVE” anything for free even if it’s air conditioning that is not only there for the people to come but it’s also there for the bloody people who are working there! Sheeshh, that’s just low and sick!
Cy – you da man!
I was definitely missing your posts, good to see you here again.
@ Quraishi saheb: T2f is not a charity — it isn’t supposed to be one. It is a “social entrepreneurship.”
While social entrepreneurships may be compared with non-profit organisations (NPOs), the two have one major difference: the latter relies on outside funding and aid; the former, however, is a business venture — it is SUPPOSED to be (and have) a continued, sustainable, SELF-SUFFICIENT source of income, so that welfare/development projects that the parent company is undertaking do not have to rely on outside funding or grants.
A social entrepreneurship may be a development project in itself by providing employment to marginalised sections, along with other social advantages (as is the case of t2f, I think), or it may be the source of income for other development projects that the parent company wishes to undertake/is undertaking.
For those who are aware of “Karavan” — the little candle shop in the Costa Coffee waali lane at Zamzama: Karavan is an example of social entrepreneurship. By tapping into the indigenous handicrafts market, they are not only training the locals in production, but are also making sure that the makers of the candles, bags, belts, kurtis and jewellery on display get a deserved cut of the profits. They are ensuring that the communities that they tap into reach a level where they can sustain their own development, rather than rely on middlemen who generally run the handicraft market in interior Sindh.
As for the difference between a regular business venture and a social entrepreneurship, I’ll quote from a paper written on the topic by Jerr Boschee and Jim McClurg: “Traditional entrepreneurs are ultimately measured by financial results: The
success or failure of their companies is determined by their ability to generate profits
for their owners. On the other hand, social entrepreneurs are driven by a double
bottom line, a virtual blend of financial and social returns. Profitability is still a goal,
but it is not the only goal, and profits are re-invested in the mission rather than being
distributed to shareholders.
More info here on social entrepreneurships here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_entrepreneurship
bolshevik no need to call me ‘sahib’ — and good that they have you as their spokesman —
interesting that no one associated with the place has come here so far to defend it
oh — the cafe is khairabad — but its too far from the mcb building — its right opp shaheen complex
@ Zee
Don’t feel frustrated my friend, if you are ever in the need of ‘air conditioning’, you can always visist PT ot Forum, they won’t charge you an extrance fee.
But what we are talking here is that even if its a non-profit venture, there are expences to run it, and for freebies with nothing to do with the subject (sorry if you are one of them) pls visit Park Towers !
Nice review Cy, for the first time :)
Don’t disturb me. I am busy eating.
News:
40pc dropout rate raises eyebrows in Senate body
ISLAMABAD, July 30: The Senate committee on education on Monday expressed serious concern over the staggering 40 per cent dropout rate at primary level and asked the Ministry of Education to make necessary arrangements to take the children back to schools.
http://dawn.com/2007/07/31/nat11.htm
Is it only me who is not aware at all or there is no coffee shop in “ghareebo wala areas” like FB area,gulshan or even north nazd?.
Ancient Karachi had lots of coffee shops in areas like Radio Pakistan,Burns rd etc where famous people used to sit and discuss valuable things but I find no coffee shop at all. Central Coffee shop near Paradise also got closed 4 years back. :/
Adnan, Gareeb people do not drink coffee, they only drink thandi bottlain. :-))
If Costa does opens in Gulshan, then we, Gulshanites, will get only more gareeb not to mention more hot-headed & caffeine-addicted.
Hey Cy,
I really feel that people are missing the big picture here. I don’t see how T2F is commodifying art and culture. What they have done is provided a space for artists/intellectuals to come and express themselves. For the Rs. 1000 entry to a jazz concert, I think it is more appropriate to hold the artist/performers accountable since they are the ones charging that kind of fee and hence “commodifying”.
There is no need to accuse T2F of holding a moral high ground simply because it is a performance space. I don’t think that is how the management feels. Sure some of the events that happen there may be pseudo-intellectual and of course they will try to profit from it, they are a business after all…do you seriously think they are the first people to make money off art/culture?
Speaking on behalf of performers, especially upcoming performers who are not well known enough to attract a large crowd or book large venues, T2F has provided a secure and easily accessible venue that provides us performers with a place to entertain.
If you don’t like their interior or their menu choice/ service then that is your respected opinion. But, I would argue, wouldn’t you think that a place that provides entertainment, a forum for discussion and a safe social meeting place provides a far greater good than bad?
Were you to provide me with another place in Karachi that regularly holds events like this, charges people much less for it and has a much better interior/service, I would be happy to join you in your criticism. But as it is now, don’t you think its time we gave credit where its due?
Thank you for reading. :)
Yours truly,
Omar Bilal Akhtar.
@ Quraishi saheb: Clarifying a concept does not mean I’m their spokesperson. God knows Sabeen doesn’t need someone to speak FOR her! :D
Also, the ‘saheb’ is a suffix I attach out of respect. I do the same for Sethi saheb too. It wasn’t meant offensively.
OBA, my sentiments exactly.
i know you said it out of respect but i think najam sethi is prob old enough to be my father —
you sounded like their spokesman — and also like arsalan and bilal here fail to understand cyril’s valid observations
btw bilal, the second floor on their website certainly gives the impression as if they are not in the business of making money — esp the bit about the coffee pricing and saying that they are non-profit
and if they are, as you say, ‘making money off art/culture’ then that is fine — but what we are saying is that then dont claim a moral high ground implying that that (ie making money) is not the objective or primary aim
can someone explain to me why these people are against a coffee shop? i still don’t get it.. my fault, may be………..
personally, i wouldn’t hate a coffee place until and unless I find a fly or a mosquito (i don’t care dead or alive) in their coffee or unless someone can prove to me that they are selling liquor and/or crack to muslims & minors behind the scene…. however, if their coffee and donuts aren’t fresh OR are expensive OR if their customer service sucks, then instead of hating and making a fuss out of it, i would simple stop honoring that place..
same goes for the performers/speakers that they bring in house.. i like listening to people who CAN sing or talk about ideas as opposed to those who simply talk about other people.. and you know what ‘talking about other people’ means.. mud slinging- karachi’ites’ favorite hobby..
i personally like chai and bakarkhani from a khoka.. somebody told me, and i have to google for a technical research paper, that our pathan bhai’s at these dhaabas know how to elevate the boiling point of chai ka pani to such an extent (way over 100 degrees celcius) that it makes the tea surprisingly tasty.. tell me if that is true ‘cos I am bad at Algebra and Histroy and Sindhi and …………..
@ ORQ:
Okay, let’s pick a younger example. I refer to most of our senior reporters at DT as ” saheb.” Quirky habit of mine that I can’t seem to be able to let go off. :-/
As for Cy’s piece, I do understand what he’s saying, and can see where he’s coming from. Whether I agree with what he says, however, (except the part about the chairs being less-than-comfortable) is a separate matter altogether. : ) I haven’t commented on his piece at all — “difference of opinion” should be acknowledged and respected, I believe.
BULL-SHOVE-IT or whatever BOLSHEVIK, OMQ, UMAR, Arsalan Nihari, whats the hype about that Coffee shop :) u don like it, don’t go there, the place is not asking, begging for a visit or draging you there by collar, or is it that someone is held up their for your visit as ransom ?? – hype and high so is everyone :)
first up- if u despise t2f that much, and it gives u that much discomfort, PLEASE, dont come!
ur not doing any one a favour
the fees are essential, because it helps seperate the riff raff who come out to cafes for cheap thrills, from the people who really ARE interested.
not only is t2f a coffee shop that needs to make money to survive, it is a damned good coffee shop that we are determined to keep open!
Incase u havent noticed, space is short, in karachi! Also, the interior is warm and welcoming! as are the owners, who actually step forward to greet u, and make u feel at home!
and i hardly think u go to t2f to stand outside the building and stare at it, as opposed to going into the rich warm atmosphere of the cafe!
Also, where in karachi do u find events like these?! what other cafes offer events that really make a difference?!!!
how can u grudgingly admire cafes on zamzama that only promote artificial aunty-pana and gossip sessions.
how can u POSSIBLY be okay with paying THREEE HUNDRED ruppees for a flipping cup of coffee,
but not okay with paying a hundred bucks for knowledge?!!!
also, u say the cafes on zamzama mask the revolting buildings in their dilapdated state that inhabit zamzama – but u dont complain that costa should paint the building next to it bright pink to make the atmosphere more festive, do u?! or say that they shud clean out the empty lot for easier parking?!
t2f is a brilliant cafe – i feel like ive come to a second home everytime i go there. i get all the intellectual stimulation i crave! where else do u get to talk 2 proffessionals so openly, and ask all the questions ur heart desires?! where else are u provided such interactive forums? these events have honestly broadened my horizons!
do u know they have open mic nights, so that new talent in the form of poets, authors and musicians can be discovered? who else in the world promotes POETRY!!!
People write about events because they enjoy them – jus as u are entitled to ur opinion, we are entitled to ours.. and im pleased to say, every time there is an event, the crowd gets bigger and bigger MAshallah! the events are SO worth attending, people dont even mind standing!!!!
so i guess people better jus start accepting that t2f IS the recognized cultural hub of karachi- and i highly doubt anything anyone says or does can change my mind! :)
first up- if u despise t2f that much, and it gives u that much discomfort, PLEASE, dont come!
ur not doing any one a favour
the fees are essential, because it helps seperate the riff raff who come out to cafes for cheap thrills, from the people who really ARE interested.
not only is t2f a coffee shop that needs to make money to survive, it is a damned good coffee shop that we are determined to keep open!
Incase u havent noticed, space is short, in karachi! Also, the interior is warm and welcoming! as are the owners, who actually step forward to greet u, and make u feel at home!
and i hardly think u go to t2f to stand outside the building and stare at it, as opposed to going into the rich warm atmosphere of the cafe!
Also, where in karachi do u find events like these?! what other cafes offer events that really make a difference?!!!
how can u grudgingly admire cafes on zamzama that only promote artificial aunty-pana and gossip sessions.
how can u POSSIBLY be okay with paying THREEE HUNDRED ruppees for a flipping cup of coffee,
but not okay with paying a hundred bucks for knowledge?!!!
also, u say the cafes on zamzama mask the revolting buildings in their dilapdated state that inhabit zamzama – but u dont complain that costa should paint the building next to it bright pink to make the atmosphere more festive, do u?! or say that they shud clean out the empty lot for easier parking?!
t2f is a brilliant cafe – i feel like ive come to a second home everytime i go there. i get all the intellectual stimulation i crave! where else do u get to talk 2 proffessionals so openly, and ask all the questions ur heart desires?! where else are u provided such interactive forums? these events have honestly broadened my horizons!
do u know they have open mic nights, so that new talent in the form of poets, authors and musicians can be discovered? who else in the world promotes POETRY!!!
People write about events because they enjoy them – jus as u are entitled to ur opinion, we are entitled to ours.. and im pleased to say, every time there is an event, the crowd gets bigger and bigger MAshallah! the events are SO worth attending, people dont even mind standing!!!!
so i guess people better jus start accepting that t2f IS the recognized cultural hub of karachi- and i highly doubt anything anyone says or does can change my mind! :)
ps. incase ur thinking that its easy to say people dotn mind standing at the back, at the last event, i PERSONALLY sat on the FLOOR!!!! and believe me, i had no qualms about it!
so im only preaching what i practice!
batty — so you admit its elitist — because it wants to keep the riff raff out — although it claims to be intellectual and non commercial
whether people should or should not be going to a particular cafe or restaurant has no link to what they say on a blog —
and btw i dont go to a cafe to feel at home — my own home is okay for that — most people who go out do not necessarily do so in order to find a ‘second home’
‘cultural hub of karachi’
haha — now i am pretty sure that’s something the owners themselves will not be claiming any time soon
*most people who go out do not necessarily do so in order to find a ‘second home’
**** Unless, ghar vaali nay naak may dum kyaa huaa ho :-)
Coffee shops and bars have a useful purpose!
* Adnan wrote
Is it only me who is not aware at all or there is no coffee shop in “ghareebo wala areas” like FB area,gulshan or even north nazd?.
***** Hmmm, I didn’t know people living in 1000 yards houses in Gulshan, North Nazimabad, and FB area were ghareeb. Just because the neighborhoods have Urdu names does not make them ghareebo’n vaalaa areas.
More than 10 years ago, there used to be a coffee shop on RAshid Minhas Road near what is now called Gulshan Chowrangi… I think that space then changed hands and converted into KFC?
There were lots of these Irani Restaurants in old parts of Karachi such as Saddar, bandar road, which did serve as coffee shops / chai shops. You could go and get just tea and smaosa. Ordering food was not a must. Slumy parts of DHA (Zamzama, Itehad/Korangi Roads intersection etc) don’t have monopoly on cofee shops.
Anyone knows real names for FB Area and North Nazimabad? yaa poori qaum kambakht burger ho gayee hae?
Been out of Karachi for ONE month and already have no clue whats been happening. So um, what is T2F?
I hate not knowing whats happening in my own city!!
real name of north nazimabad?
balmy that is the real name of the area
mehreen, wanna trade? first tell me what this ‘um’ means?
@ Balma
I would love to find out the real names of FB Area and North Nazimabad – i live at Landikotal!
To all:
You’re getting too worked up over a single coffee shop. Maybe it’s not about the place,it’s just about them being perceived hypocrites. But think of this: It’s a simple business. They keep enough people happy to keep them running, and they make money while they do it. At the same time,they are trying to make the city a better place,trying to help some of the people in this city by giving them a place to do their thing. That shouldn’t hurt anyone else. Live and let live.
omar – i did not say it was elitist what so ever
by riff raff i mean the cheap ass johnies in their too tight jeans and dirty vests, chewing paan, and the bryl cream slicked hair…or the the defence wannabes’. or the girls who come to be seen. or the teen kids who think theyre COOL jus cuz theyre sittign at one of the most happening cafe’s. or the new moneyed ppl with no class, who’ve moved up in life and dont know how to handle it, so they try to act uber-classy, when at the base, their actions give them away – for example, the way they tlak to people serving them.
or people like urself, who seem to only be happy when putting things down, instead of appreciating a good thing when they see it.
what do u have against the place anyway?!
did u not fit in when u visited? or did u not even bother to go there?
I live in North Nazimabad. As far as I know, that IS its real name… O_o
Hi Guys,
I am planning to open a bunkabob Thela infront of Sahil restaurnat at sea view. It will be one of the best bun kabob in the area only 10Rs with three flavored chutnies and two shapes of Buns (round and long). Please help me to pay my education expenses. The name of Thela would be “bunkabob for Burgers”. If you guys think it is not a good idea then let me kow if you have any other ideas for the name..Thanks
North Nazimabad is not the real name of North Nazimabad. I will give you folks a bit more time to guess. And yes, come up with the real name for FB area too. Cheating IS allowed. Hamari poori qaum cheater hae!
Also, another question:
Where was Country Club Road?
why are my comments awaiting approval?
where as everyone else has free reign to speak as they wish?!
Balma: In Urdu North Nazimabad is called “Shumaali Nazimabad”
The way T2F is being cursed, I think it should be renamed from “T2F” to “WTF”.
Everybody (except uneducated burgers) knows that North Nazimabad can be called Shumaali Nazimabad. And just to piss Pakistani mullah types, it can also be called Uttar Nazimabad (Mullah types, go take a hike to jahanum).
The correct answer is:
F.B. Area = Mansoora
North Nazimabad = Taimuria
And where was Country Club Road? yeh bhee mujhay bataanaa paRay gaa?
I tried not to get into this argument, but just couldn’t hold myself :-)
Balma, how would you describe ‘real name’?
As far as I am concerned, North Nazimabad and F.B.Area ARE their real names. Maybe, you meant to say, ‘old’ or even ‘previous’ names of these localities.
Then, maybe Taimuria and Mansoora could be their old names.
My two paisas worth. And, I meant no offence, what-so-ever :-))
Well, until late 70s, KDA maps used to refer to these areas as Mansoorah and Taimurya. In fact, even today, the (or one of the) police station in Uttar Nazimabad (small brain mullah types, take a hike again to Jahanum and never come back) is called Taimurya police station.
And, while North Nazimabad does make some sense, there is absolutely no justification for calling any area Federal B Area in Karachi. Karachi is not a federal area.
Actually, someone should test the official status my mailing a dummy letter to someone in Taimurya and see what happens:-)
@Balma,
You always right someting really stupid and nonesense..Dont you have anything good to do and leave us alone..Take some pills and sleep for two-three months plzzzzz…
Balma, how would you describe ‘real name’?
Balma’s real name is CHUTTO.
u can also call him ‘Baboon’ because it also starts from “B”