Alcoholics We Poison.
In the newspaper (DAWN) today: “At least 18 people died after drinking toxic liquor in different localities of the city on Thursday” The death count is said to be over 30 now (Geo).
Alcoholism is a disorder in which people cant stop them selves from consuming alcohol. In a literate society people understand the problem and seek professional help but for our poor illiterate masses there is no hope. And to make it worst we ask the licensed liquor to shut down for a whole month, and as a results the alcohol addicts and alcoholics of all religions and cast who cant afford to call their liquor dealer for a home delivery of a bottle of expensive vodka go for the only available “Kupi” and “Tharra” and end up killing them selves.
Why are we forcing our religious values on them who don’t follow our religion? Why there is no help for the underprovided alcoholics? Why our authorities don’t feel comfortable to identify and accept that such a problem exists? Why don’t they do something to solve such issues? These are just a few of the countless questions we as a nation have in our minds, and with every new issues, incident many such questions popup in our minds and go unanswered as they have always been since ever.
I wish the 50s and 60s could come back when majority of the public use to mind their own business.
Be ALLAHs curse on ZIA and he be thrown into hell for throwing this country into hell of religious extremism in the name of Jihad.
Curse on our ISI and all those who trained, supported and financed the terrorist in 80s.
Blaming this tragedy on religion instead of on the people who drink alcohol is cowardly and smacks of bigotry on your part!
Keep the blame where it belongs ie on the brain dead morons who think drinking alcohol is hip. And no, no alchoholic ever died from NOT drinking. But they all do die FROM drinking.
Get your facts straight in your head before spouting ignorance and spreading fallacies.
@Jamesh
I disagree with you, Pakistan is a muslim country and we should not promote such things in our country, no alcohol should allow in any month, should bann all the time.
Alcohol is even not allow in other religion.
*MB wrote
Be ALLAHs curse on ZIA and he be thrown into hell for throwing this country into hell of religious extremism in the name of Jihad.
**** But it was Budnazir’s daddy, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, who banned alcohol.
It seems that toxic liquor has effected the tiny brains of both Jamash and MB as well. :-). Last year it affected severely the other author named Cy.
Jamash, my ignorant kid, this is not the first incident in Karachi,specially in Ramadan that you came out such lame and lunatic statement
And to make it worst we ask the licensed liquor to shut down for a whole month,
Either you are not used to read papers or you are an imaginary Ignorant. So many times I read that people died due to toxic alcohol and there was no month of Ramadan. Keep it up and keep entertaining us with your utter ignorance.
*Sohail wrote,
I disagree with you, Pakistan is a muslim country and we should not promote such things in our country, no alcohol should allow in any month, should bann all the time.
******
I guess you will agree with RSS and BJP’s efforts for banning beef eating in India. I am sure you will tell all the Muslims in India to follow any Indian govenment ruling against beef consumption.
I guess you will also tell Muslims in the USA to stop marrying cousins, after all it is officially prohibited in many states in the US to marry cousins. Good Muslims should not be breaking laws of the land they live in. Great.
I like your willingness to live by the rule of the land and willingness to agree with the will of the majority. Congratulations. Great!
so we shall change our laws for the sake of the 2 % minority instead of 98% majority? What good alcohol is for after all? y support alcoholics? they r just pathetic bastards if they cant tolerate the absence of it.
Gotta agree with Adnan on this one, Jamash. It happens year round, and the same kind of people die. As far as not doing anything about it is concerned, let it be known to yourself and others, that Allah sends his wrath (la’nat bhejta hai) on 7 kinds of people. Those who drink, those who sell them, who carry them, who make them, who serve them, who buy them, and one more I can not recall at this specific point in time. But I really do hope I make myself clear in this holy month.
This behaviour should be condoned during AND besides ramzan as well. If the non-Muslims want to drink, they are more than welcome to do so. Byram D. Avari has his own brewry, for instance.
almost 37 dead and 30 in critical condition.. families are wailing and whining… all this was happening right under the nose of area police…
Many of you would have heard about “Good friday”? and some of our so called liberals used to celebrate it in western countries? From Wiki Entry of “Good_Friday”.
The Republic of Ireland, a predominantly Catholic country, prohibits all alcohol from being sold on Good Friday. The day is a bank holiday but not a public holiday. Almost all pubs and many restaurants in Ireland close for the duration of the day.
Educate yourself first. Blaming pakistan and Islam doesn’t make you credible. One HAS TO respect what majority practise, for instance catholic Irish people here. This is what I tried to teach to Cy last year and now to you or any other KMB author who is pumped to work future post on similar lines.
USA, the so called secular state announce holidays for Xmas which is a Christian fest but no such facilities for Muslims or other followers. Go figure! If you re so eager to blame, just blame to everyone. Picking up single instance and keep dragging it again and again just make you less credible.
* Adnan wrote:
One HAS TO respect what majority practise
***** So you agree with RSS and BJP that Muslims in India whould not eat beef and should not marry more than one wife at a time?
And, you agree that Muslims in the US should not mary their cousins since it is illegal in many states in the US?
@ADNAN ( no PORK-NAAN from now on)
“The Republic of Ireland, a predominantly Catholic country, prohibits all alcohol from being sold on Good Friday. ”
well, the same republic has denied divoce rights to couples for long…so whats the point?
Religous ppl can be nuts all around the world. Muslims r more nuts than others, but the general rule applies.
Religion if a mental disorder, y not just limit it to urself.
grand terrorist Altaf bai’s wife is divorcing Altaf… is this new related to karachi?..
@Balma
Muslims do NOT marry cousins in the US. It is against the law of the majority. If they do want to marry a cousin, they go overseas and get married to cousins where this practice is permisable and come back to the US.
And try sticking to the topic at hand next time(drinking, in case you havnt caught on yet).
relations between Altaf bai and his in laws were sour and his father in law even accused him of attempting to murder him..
I kinda like your stuff Jam but this is not reasonable. afterall will there ever be such a thing as personal responsibility or will all grown men act like uncontrollable children? How miserable and poor are they? Its a lame excuse.
No one is personally poisoning them. Nor do governments sit and plan to poison people.
Sit in their office one day and look at their decisions from their angle. What do they choose? Provide health care to the needy? Or to the reckless? Imagine if they set up an alcoholics trouble-shooting center.
This *is* an “Islamic country” no matter how poorly defined. With a nation full of irresponsible aggressive people who know 150 ways to pick a lock and 35 ways to tele-scare a women, some of these men can put their brains together to run their own legitimate businesses and become useful, healthy people.
There is no excuse, and our conscience needs to focus on more critical things than take responsibility for every adult lunatic.
“Imagine if they set up an alcoholics trouble-shooting center.
This *is* an “Islamic country” no matter how poorly defined.”
By mentioning the Islamic country thing, I mean these men and the ones who indulged in the trade ought to be aware of where they are and what kind of resistance, even if hypocritical, will they meet. Besides, there is a lot of work to do in this world should bums deign to do it.
Health assistance is everyone’s right, btw… especially when they are dying of poisoning. Yet we have to remember the old-fashioned wisdom of prevention over cure. Once something terrible has happened, you can only control damages without choice. But why did it happen? At that point, these drop-dead alcoholics had the responsibility to think.
If they can think of ever-new ways to indulge in hedonism and ill behavior, they can also aspire to doing better. Many good things in life are actually free, once someone wants to make that choice. Who prevents some of these men to sit together and say, “Brother, instead of discussing new methods of torturing our women, stealing other people’s money, and escaping work as our children and women labor for us while stay home pitch drunk - how about we discuss how can we give up this nasty habit?” Haven’t we heard our poor maasis telling us how their husbands do nothing but indulge in gambling, drugs, and illicit relationships? If they are the victims of their situations, how come their women and young kids are responsible enough to be employed for 15 hours a day, earning for these burdens on Earth?
When we say all people are equal, the assumption is that they were born with equal spirit and brains.
death toll rising 38 dead.. those dorks reportedly used methanol
why are we drifting out of the topic , discussing about Quiad e Altaf and other un related stuff , the main cause for families who lost there loved ones yesterday or today , you guys shud ask them how they feel about this , as a matter of fact , the people who were caught were no other then our own police , one was identified as a police senior constable who sold this poison which resulted in the death of so many…lawlessness sad but true.
“At least 18 people died after drinking toxic liquor in different localities of the city on Thursday”
Gunah e bay lazat..
another somewhat ironic event occurred in Lahore when film star Eleena died, allegedly due to Aids……and since then, a large number of officials have turned up allegedly (and in official cars) at hospitals, demanding urgent Aids test…
I must congratulate Umar to hire some really imaginary idiots who:
1)don’t know the background of the things they discuss and refer things out of the context
2)have no ability to interact with users and can justify/convince what they posted while on other hand they do backbiting(gheebat) about commenters in private discussions and mailing list. Give chance to public Metroblog mailing list and you will see the real face of these tin soldiers who show there true colors while talking to each others. Losers!
I must congratulate Umar to hire some really imaginary idiots who:
1)don’t know the background of the things they discuss and refer things out of the context
2)have no ability to interact with users and can justify/convince what they post while on other hand they do backbiting(gheebat) about commenters in private discussions and mailing list. Give chance to make Metroblog mailing list public and you will see the real face of these tin soldiers who show there true colors while talking to each others. Losers!
JAMASH, I think you are missing that alcohol kicking in your blood, that’s why you are showing such sympathy with these people. I say this serves them right!! There should be no alcohol! I blame the government for letting them run those shops for the rest of the eleven months! What cheap and sick mentality we have here… SPECIALLY… amongst the authors of this blog! >bSHAME ON YOU JAMASH, SHAME ON YOU!
DOCTOR you asswipe, get a fucking miserable life you pinhead. Look and god damn read before you post your rubbish Altaf hussain bashing on every topic. Altaf is an ass but so are you. Again… get a fucking miserable life! Do you have any other job? I hope your children grow up into MQM activists!
@zee i can understand its frustrating time for supporters of this terrorist organization,but with leader like Altaf you’d continue to stay frustrated for time to come..
WHAT A BUFFOON THIS AUTHOR NAMED JAMASH IS.
its no new news that ppl died after consuming substandard hard drinks, this kind of incidents occurs through out the year, it has nothing to do with ramazan.
I just couldnt understand his point.
Was he himself under the influence of some drugs when he wrote this crap. Or probably he has got license to sell alcohol and he is pissed at government cuz he cant serve his customers in this BUSINESS WRECKING MONTH OF MOSLEMS.
JAMASH=JAM(chalice) + ash(raakh)
jam khali hai saaqi
apni raakh se hi bharde isko.
matti ka tail(kerosene oil)lay aaon??????
bhai koe lakrya jama kare for the FUNERAL PYRE, we have got to perform funeral rites for JAMASH.
@DOGTOR
doctor is jealous of altaf’s wife cuz Altaf used to assfuck DOGTOR in a DOGGY style( before getting narried to that baloach woman), and this is where he got his name from i.e DOGtor.
altaf’s wife is DOGtor’s rival so you guy should know that how happy dogtor must have been after getting the DIVORCE NEWS.
Now after divorce ALTAF will start banging DOGtor’s ass again.
Some of us are happy that people have died after drinking adulterated alcohol. The reasons presented vary.
If alcohol is bad for health, so is tobacco. Why anti-alcoholists do not set blogs on fire with anti-tobacco campaigns? In fact, more people die in road accidents, ban all motorized vehicles. Some people take pleasure in having a dip at a beach but many more drown. Ban beaches.
If drinking alcohol is breaking the law of land, why the drinkers are scorned more than violators of traffic laws or the laws against preaching and inciting hatred against others? If there should be a law, it should against the selling of substandard drink.
If drinking alcohol is against religious edicts, so is lying, cheating, killing, hatred, hypocrisy, and many other social ills.
Should not everyone be liable for their own personal affairs, rather than preaching morality to others?
BTW, nobody dies by drinking adulterated alcohol in the countries which allow the regulated trade of alcohol. It is only in the countries where alcohol is banned that people died of substandard stuff.
shut the fuck up all who are pro and against alcohol.
Its not the BIGGEST problem we have got to resolve immediately.
If ever needed we will have a NATIONAL POLL on this issue, let the fucking ppl decided what they want in their fucking country you mother fuckers.
Go DRINK MILK and make sure you drink it, DONT EVER TRY TO SUCKLE BREASTS OF YOUR FUCKING WIVES/GRILFRIENDS.
Go buy your daily quota of MILK from the shop.
and FINALLY dont evert try to MILK THE BULL you fucking bunch of MORONS.
YOUR LEADER
QUAID-E-AZAM
@ELIZAMANTIN
I have to disagree with you
so many people die in countries where alcohol is regulated, there is drinking and driving, suicides, and murders due directly to alcohol
yes not to many people die from substandard alcohol but people die from alcohol non the less.
the one thing which always gets me is the holier than thou attitude we ‘muslims’ have!
everyone has the right to manage their OWN piety, while no one has the right to IMPOSE it on others.
the one thing we have a fundamental right to as human beings (although many of you including no-pork-nan might disagree here too) is the right to CHOOSE!
imposing morality did this country in, many of you accept that, whether it was through hudood ordinance or through general zia or through bhutto.. yet that is what many of you still advocate!
don’t you even listen to yourselves? or read what you’ve written?
“accepting what the majority does” is the right thing????? since WHEN!!! what happened to individuality? what happened to my right to choose? i choose not to eat beef! does that make me a hindu? juz because a majority of people who dont eat beef are hindus? it has been proved TIME AND TIME AGAIN that the majority is not always right! if it were, we would still be believing the world is flat and we can fall off the edge! or the whole universe revolves around us, or even that smoking is good for you!!!!
hypocrisy, thy name is kmb commenter!
This poison is for poor only, whereas, you can find most expensive picks (the selected vines from south of france or nicely aged scottish whiskey’s) in the inhouse bars of the people that matter in our society. Ban or no ban they will always have their quota. Its the ordinary folks who have to wait for Jannat to have their fill.
TO Second MANSOOR:
“If fifty million people say a wrong thing, it is still a wrong thing”
Thank you Mansoor I couldn’t have said it better.. :)
At reality_Check : You are absolutely right and just because they are poor or in minority we treat them like venomous creatures, we call them names and tell them that they deserve to die for their little sins and also because we know they will not bite back.
@mansoor
YES PORK DOESNT EAT BEEF, IT FEEDS ON FILTH.
and everyone has the right to choose, make sure you CHOOS(suck)anything but a WILLY.
@mun-soo(a)r
u wrote,
accepting what the majority does” is the right thing????? since when…
thats what ppl like MOLANA ABUL KALAM said when you got your seprate homeland NA-PAKISTAN.
and btw majority of the world population believes in GOD, atheists are still in minority, it means we should get rid of religion first.
accepting what the majority does” is the right thing????? since WHEN!!! what happened to individuality? what happened to my right to choose?
Look who’s talking here! the supporter and member of the fascist cult in Pakistan that is “Pakistan Army”
Did you ever dare to rant infront of your fascist cult to give rights to Individuals? Did you ever slap on face of some General that why Army cult is keep sucking the rights of individuals? Did you ever abuse them why r they keep destroying country because “they are in Majority”
Go and rant on some other planet if you don’t have ability to deal with what happens in world[Not only in Pakistan] and yeah,
hypocrisy, thy name is Mansoor Adenwala, the member of Fascist Army
@Jamash, gadhay, people even suffer due to low standard foods and even die. You don’t have balls to talk against them. You came out and start bullshitting about this issue because you found 1)Ramadan 2)Islam so it gave you rights to start vomiting your inner filth.
as i said, you tin soldiers don’t have balls to interact with commenters. You can just curse them while talking with your fellow authors.
although many of you including no-pork-nan might disagree here too
ye huwi na baat!! Finally my lecture awoke the “ghairat” of a KMB blogger- LOL!
See, I helped you to getrid of backbiting. Be thankful of me. Encourage your fellow bloggers to follow you rather cursing us[readers] in private. :-)
from the link Jamash posted:
Sindh Health Minister Sardar Ahmed told Dawn that the victims belonged to the Muslim, Christian and Hindu communities and they had consumed the poisonous liquor on Wednesday night.
and what this ignorant author wrote above:
Why are we forcing our religious values on them who don’t follow our religion?
Minority? Ironically those _tunaris_ were demonstrating “Inter religion Unity” and they all died *in each other arms*. Don’t make yourself a laughing stock for the visitors of this blog.
Aur apni jaan dekh bhai, tum tu ek glass ka bhe nahi ho! you guys shouldn’t believe in, Nasha sharab mey hota tu nachti botal.That was just poetry. :>
o dear o mine.. give them lil drugs too..
mind it very clearly and if you don’t agree you might need to reconsider your faith.. must start blaming your parents why the hell they made you Muslim..
And if your not muslims.. then let me tell you this clearly that Alcohol is proven bad for both individuals and societies.. and in no way.. we are not stopping non believers from practicing their religion.. we don’t stop them wearing their cross or other religious things.. as we get difficulties with our beards, azaans and letting our women wearing hijaabs in west..
Islam is not an individual practice… it allows people their rights but it asks practicing it as collective effort… if anyone takes it as individual’s business then he/she should stop going to the mosques.. its a collective law and code of life and societies, that tells you how to develop and behave individually and socially..
we do allow non believers to hav alcohol sometime .. knowing and believing a thing Haram and all about its bad impacts and even then we allow them is simply happens because of our weak Emans and by following west blindly..
we now don’t even hav guts to say bad as bad.. rather few jerks like to support shits..
I wonder why you dint ask for drugs and all.. why you dint tell us definition of drug addicts? .. coz its considered bad in WEST too? Or you may have other reasons?
dont think too much about it .. its just happening coz of being sick westernized brain…
you guys feel that whatever happens in west is good.. and if we were in a bad practice we should revert to that..
I think Muslims like you should start blaming their parents for giving this religion that’s making it difficult to live in boundaries and might give them hard time thereafter too.
@PORK-NAAN
roza lag raha hai? y so much garmi? tameez sey batain karo na, bhai
I think if Pakistani Muslims eat pork and drink wine in iftar, then their behavior would be much better and civilized.
And yes, I am assuming good wine and pork, not kutta gosht, or adulterated murree beverage.
I think if Pakistani Muslims eat pork and drink wine in iftar, then their behavior would be much better and civilized.
Alam n balam, but your attitude here proves something else? see below.
@PORK-NAAN
“civilized” :-). May you preach this civilization among your own people. -:)
This post has me scared. The amount of hatred, irrationality and most importantly, lack of tolerance spewing out from so many different people is a frightening indicator of the state of this nation. Reilgious fanaticism seems to have won hands down.
@ Adnan Siddiqui - You’re an idiot, I have no other words to say to you.
@ Jamash, MB, Reality_Check - please keep on commenting and posting; hopefully this will lead to Adnan Siddiqui losing his mind…whoops too late for that now!
hopefully this will lead to Adnan Siddiqui losing his mind.
:-)
Hazaro khuwahisin ayse k har kuwahish pay Dam niklay
bhai, tumharay ancestors like nimrod,pharaoh mujh jaiso k baray me ayse he hasrat liye dunya se ghayeb hogaye tu tumhari,mb aur jamash ki kia majaal hay? :>
*sigh* - what a great diversion from topic.
Like someone said - Religion is Individual’s way of practising life.
Be it Kuppi, Thurra, Smirnoff, Jack Daniels, etc etc it is an individuals act, - responsible are those whose DUTY is to keep check on its dispensibility.
Hardline crimnals are the people who sponsor and provide “protection” to the manufacturer of Local Kuppi Thurra, Gaanja etc etc.
The license SHOPS does not check the CNIC of individuals when dispensing. They assure you safety within 1 km of their operating radius and full refund if apprehended. They pack the bottle in specially marked Brown Paper bags and police pickets / snap checks identify the bags and let those pass.
- Only 2 license brewery factories exist in Pakistan One in Quetta other One in Murree - anywhere else, it is police be taken to task and punished.
Case has to be registered against the TPO and UC Nazim - without their blessing and monetary catch there is Zero possibility of Liquor business operated by the ‘Local distillery’ on its own
Somebody is trying to be Mussa (Moses) here by declaring others pharohs!!! Why hide behind religious mythology?
http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/screwup.html
Shamsi, diversion from the topic? can you enlightened us what was the orignal topic?
-was it condemnation of toxic liquor?
-was it an attempt to expose local authorties’ cunningness?
- Was it to curse the disadvantages of being alcoholic?
I am sorry but none of mentioned things were targeted. What the author tried to offend a community who might not like alcohol at all and then to strengthen his hollow statement he made a lame statement that it happened due to ramadan and MINORITIES suffered while neither his own reference nor paper cuttings from other month refute his claim. In short he bullies that those died because they didn’t find a “quality” liquor.
THe author made a sick attempt to associate an issue with a religion.What you mentioned seems to be the main reason. The current flour(aata) issue in pakistan is getting worst day by day. Nobody is discussing it, why? because it doesn’t have a religion factor and most of criminals might belong to party which is in sync with mentality of Jamash and others peers.
being a part of managment of a forum doesn’t mean one got freedom to rant whatever he likes. Cursing readers as Intolerant just because they refute hollow claims and whining doesn’t put any weight in the statement(s). If one doesn’t have ability to fulfill his job with responsiblity then he/she should quit the job rather mishandle it. Otherwise I don’t see why some authors here curse MQM and Musharraf heavily here.
@Eliza: it’s not methodology and following Moses is not a sin either. However when atheists re free to bring darwin all the time and hide behind his theory then anti-darwinism also has similar rights.
- Quote -
Why are we forcing our religious values on them who don’t follow our religion? Why there is no help for the underprovided alcoholics? Why our authorities don’t feel comfortable to identify and accept that such a problem exists? Why don’t they do something to solve such issues?
- Unquote -
seems this was topic -
and this is diversion -
- Quote -
Altaf Hussain wife filed for divorce - :)
-
Curse on our ISI and all those who trained, supported and financed the terrorist in 80s.
-
thats what ppl like MOLANA ABUL KALAM said when you got your seprate homeland NA-PAKISTAN.
-
- Unquote -
Thankyou shamsi, my speculation was not so wrong at all.
@nizam-e-shamsi
QAMAR ko lag gaya gehn ab kya kijye (qamar-moon)
tulu-e-seher ki hi ab tou dua kijye (seher-dawn)
wat ever happened wat good. why they were drinking in month of ramzaN?
@balma, u r really a shit head
Look at the topic of the post. “Alcoholics We Poison”. Please just include urself in “WE” if u want but ofcourse no one else here has a hand in it. I am not happy for the deaths but blame where it belongs. “Religion is an individual stuff” & “let the ppl decide what they want” then here u go, those who died were responsible for their own acts & deaths
o dear o mine.. give them lil drugs too..
mind it very clearly and if you don’t agree you might need to reconsider your faith.. must start blaming your parents why the hell they made you Muslim..
And if your not muslims.. then let me tell you this clearly that Alcohol is proven bad for both individuals and societies.. and in no way.. we are not stopping non believers from practicing their religion.. we don’t stop them wearing their cross or other religious things.. as we get difficulties with our beards, azaans and letting our women wearing hijaabs in west..
Islam is not an individual practice… it allows people their rights but it asks practicing it as collective effort… if anyone takes it as individual’s business then he/she should stop going to the mosques.. its a collective law and code of life and societies, that tells you how to develop and behave individually and socially..
we do allow non believers to hav alcohol sometime .. knowing and believing a thing Haram and all about its bad impacts and even then we allow them is simply happens because of our weak Emans and blindly following west..
we now don’t even hav guts to say bad as bad.. rather few jerks like to support shits..
I wonder why you dint ask for drugs and all.. why you dint tell us definition of drug addicts? .. coz its considered bad in WEST too? Or you may have other reasons?
dont think too much about it .. its just happening coz of being sick westernized brain…
you guys feel that whatever happens in west is good.. and if we were in a bad practice we should revert to that..
I think Muslims like you should start blaming their parents for giving this religion that’s making it difficult to live in boundaries and might give them hard time thereafter too.
Who is wrong who is right. Problem is that the day this question will be answered………it will be too late.
Emotions have flared, names have been called, all sorts of filth has been flung from one end to the other. I think time has come that we stop infuriating ourselves and get into verbal jousts. Instead, we should all take away whatever beliefs we had before this post to wherever it is we are. As it is quite evident that we, the people, can not discuss matters in a civil manner. It would, thus, be prudent to let things be as they are, i.e., to each their own.
Long story short, all the time and energy spent reading these posts, then conjuring up a (un)suitable reply, could have been better utilised elsewhere.
new death toll.. 44 dead and counting.. the ASI of police and the person selling it also expired in hospital yesterday night..
ASI? he was also with those guys?? oh, i didn’t know this? Now I believe they took following ghazal of Jagjit’s seriously and thought they would have another chance :>
Baat Saaqi ki na talee jaye gi
Kar k tauba torh dali jaye gi
” I think if Pakistani Muslims eat pork and drink wine in iftar, then their behavior would be much better and civilized.”
Well my comment on this. The father of this Nation Mohammed Ali Jinnah, did both, i.e. eat pork and drank wine. If he stayed alive a little bit longer the poor of this nation would be drinking some good quality stuff.
Cynicalrealist makes a really valid point. The amount of intolerance, condescension and judgemental attitudes show in the comments on almost every KMB post never ceases to amaze me (and frequently makes me question the point of coming back to read any of the posts). I’m not sure why people seem to find it necessary to disparage those who disagree with them; the concept of civilised debate or polite difference of opinion seems to be utterly lacking here.
That said,
We force our religious values on people because we’re scared and traumatised by difference. We don’t understand it, we don’t like it, we freak out. It’s easier to take refuge in custom and tradition than it is to actually think or rationalise behaviour. I know several Muslims, for example, from very devout families (who have genuine faith, and aren’t just paying lip-service to religion) who simply don’t have “faith” in Islam or find that the religious messages in the Bible or Buddhism (just as examples) resonate more strongly. That doesn’t make them bad people; faith and religion are incredibly personal matters, and no one has the right or the authority to comment or dictate one’s belief system. Your parents raise you to follow a faith because it’s what they know, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re damned because it doesn’t carry the same weight or meaning for you.
I think by asking about help for underprovided alcoholics, the issue is about providing them with treatment or rehabilitation facilities, not showering them with more booze. If people weren’t so reactionary, that point could have been discussed further. There’s a basic infrastructure lack here; if you can’t have sufficient schools or public utilities (water etc.), rehab centres are practically impossible to conceptualise.
Also “And no, no alchoholic ever died from NOT drinking. But they all do die FROM drinking.” What rubbish. It’s called systemic shock. Unless it’s managed, alcoholics can and do die if they go cold-turkey. I refuse to comment on the morality of consuming alcohol–it’s none of my business is someone chooses to drink. But don’t be so facile; alcoholism is also very much a physiological addiction, and there are people who are prone to it. The argument can be made that they shouldn’t be drinking in the first place, but it’s not like you’re born with a stamp “prone to alcohol abuse”, and it’s not as though anyone has the right to regulate their behaviour. Ranting about how something is wrong bears no relevance to addressing the simple fact that people DO drink, that there ARE issues rising from it, and that they have to or should be addressed.
But it’s easier to condemn people from the comfort of a narrow mind and dogmatic blindness, or to hurl invective at people who don’t agree with one’s opinions than to actually get off one’s ass and try to do something about it.
To add to my above comments. Karachi upto 70’s had open Bars, Night Clubs, and every hotel served liqour. Indeed Karachi was much much more civilized. No shootings, no mass killing, art and culture but then came Zia and his havarees…..rest is history.
@Reality_Check
I had to agree with BALMA, that all “gund” started bhutto. He submitted to moulvis for declaring Ahmedis non-muslims and prohibiting alcohol. But he could not satisfy the bloody muslim fanatics. Zia came later. He capitalized on the Islamic fever.
Right now, we have an elitist culture. Rich ppl can snort and drink anything, have sex with all kinds of women and men they want. Its just the poor ppl, who r expected to follow Islam, as others see fit.
The point is, if ppl dont like following Islam, y force it on them? Pork-Naan Siddiqi ppl want everyone to follow their rules. “Don’t eat in public in ramzan”, don’t drink wine/beer.
There should be complete freedom here. If Muslims can go and proseltize their religion, Ahmedis, hindus and atheists should have the same right.
@Ridiculous
I agree with u 90%, except the impression I get from ur post that u think ppl who drink are always alcoholic. Nothing can be farther from truth. Some ppl r social drinkers (like me)…Some ppl r regular drinker but modest.
Every drinking person has no issues. As George Carlin says, its the motivated ppl who r the real problem…the person is smoking weed and jerking off in his privacy, is the least threat to the society, and maybe, a very profitable to the society.
@ pee-drinkers and non-drinkers
just go and throw urselves off any peak/building/bridge/tower or aeroplane.
its enough!
ALAM I agree with you, in fact it was Bhutto that gifted us Zia-ul-Haque. Since then we have preached ignorance to such an extent, that the kids raised during the eighties got a whole new doze of history and religion - the Zia’s version.
Now the people simply dont know. Its not possible to make an over night change, however, what we should do is fight lies with facts and let the people know. They can make up there own minds. Let them them know that Jinnah drank wine and ate pork, so that they can declare him kafir.
Why stop at Jinnah? Most of the top leadership of Pakistan movement indulged themselves but it did not make them any less Muslims. So did subsequent leaders of the initial era. All of them were Muslims and nobody tested their “muslim-ness”, if I may, against the standards exported by a certain Arab country to the world in 1970s. If not religion, then adherence to religious edits, was left to individuals and the society in the Pakistan of 1950, 60s and 70s was tolerant, largely peaceful and devoid of sectarianism. I doubt that Pakistan has had a single head of government or State who had not drunk (albeit it is their private and personal act which does not impact on their ability to lead or otherwise or makes them a lesser human) from Jinnah to Mush. Even the holy of the holies, Amir-ul-Momineen President General Mohammad Zia ul Haq Rahmutullah Alaye, experimented with alcohol as a young officer in the army mess. Although Bhutto started the nation’s slide towards the pit of fanaticism by submitting to mullahs for political expediency, Zia aggressively promoted the culture of hypocrisy by corrupting the mindset of the youth. While legal alcohol became out of bound for ordinary people, it was still made available to elites by Zia himself. It is not a hidden fact that habitual drinkers like Sadiqain, the artist, and many other renowned poets were supplied their quota of Scotch by the Chief Martial Law Administrator himself. Often people used to come back from a meeting with the ever-smiling Zia clutching a brown paper bag under their arms (can we say that Zia was the greatest bootlegger of all, certainly a step higher than a casual drinker?). In the holy land of Saudi Arabia the $4 billion annual trade of bootlegging is controlled entirely by a couple of high profile “rajkumars” of the house of Saud. Well, where there is need, there is supply. If a trade is not legal, regulated and controlled one, it does not take long for substandard, adulterated, uncontrolled and un-taxed moonlight to fill in the gap. Governments succumbing to alcohol bans only lose revenue and taxes, and the common man ends up with poisonous liquor.
This is where it is necessary to decide whether we are an Islamic State or a Secular State. Mind you, I tactfully miss out the word “welfare” above. Both types of states differ a lot and are governed by a completely different sets of rules and regulations.
We suffer from a dilemma that has been present for the past few decades, as to exactly what quadrant we fall in. We are now at a point where even a civil revolt wouldn’t help because when the ruling junta’s all dead, we’ll start killing eachother for national supremacy. We need a new solution…a radical one at that…
@alam: remember one thing. If you can’t cope better leave it. You’re in US, ask them NOT to impose Xmas in entire country because Xmas,Thanks Giving is related to specific country. if you have guts, deal with Americans first. you don’t need to get worried about what should be done in public or not. Sitting infront of PC and whining is just declaring you a lamer. Calling my names don’t put weight in your statement. It just reflects what kinda teaching were given back in home by your elders. Keep entertaining as its exposing about yours ancestors here.
its amazing to see how filthy morons have started bitching about jinnah that he ate pork and had wine. Pre-islamic era, every companion of Muhamamd(saw) was an Infidel and many used to drink wine. Later they changed their life style and become pious muslims on earth. Does that give others right to say they used to drink wine so we should as well? I see that kid Alam claimed he was a follower in past but not anymore. Do I have to right to keep bringing his past again and declare him “Muslim” while he’s a not?
Regardless of What Jinnah did in past, Jinnah had more knowledge about Islam then secularists who are always confused where they put themselves. Jinnah’s speeches. Following speeches are enough to prove how he changed his life style later from westernized to Islamic.
It is my belief that our salvation lies in following the golden rules of conduct set for us by our great lawgiver, the Prophet of Islam. Let us lay the foundations of our democracy on the basis of true Islamic ideals and principles(Civil, Naval, Military and Air Force Officers at Khaliqdina Hall Karachi on 11th October 1947)
What is it that keeps the Muslims united as one man, and what is the bedrock and sheet-anchor of the community. It is Islam. It is the Great Book, Quran, that is the sheet-anchor of Muslim India. I am sure that as we go on there will be more and more of oneness, one God, one Book, one Prophet and one Nation(All-India Muslim League, Karachi on 26th December 1943)
If your brains don’t have capability to comprehend anything and it got stuck somewhere due to IQ level equivalent to shoesize then it doesn’t mean you start cursing jinnah. Just look at yourself,the filth inside you might not give you chance to look towards others.
Well I dont like Bhutto as such but to be honest i admire a couple of his work & I think he did a great job i.e. Declaring Qadiyanis as non muslims, ban on alcohol and the 1st step towards nuclear Pakistan.
As for those who want alcohol availability non stop please dont wish to change rules here rather go somewhere else where it is available 24×7.
ADNAN no one has cursed Jinnah. I have just mentioned what father of Nation liked or dis-liked and there is no evidence that he made any changes in his preferences. Please dont try to give an incorrect impression that he changed and became a moulvi.
If you think that you can type two paragraphs in bold without any substance, doesnt mean that you are out of your shoe box. In fact your writings sounds like words coming out out from the mouth of none other than Zia-ul-Haque. Are we seeing a re-incarnation?
On the other hand here are the words of Jinnah delivered to the first legislative assembly of Pakistan, as the guiding principles for formulating the Constitution of this country;
“You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed - that has nothing to do with the business of the State……………….. We are starting in the days when there is no discrimination, no distinction between one community and another, no discrimination between one caste or creed and another. We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one State”
For the whole text refer to any relevant history book or go to;
http://pakistanspace.tripod.com/archives/47jin11.htm
The word “Islam” didnt even popped up once in the whole utterrance. Every Pakistani should read this speech.
As for Muslims united as one…..very FUNNY, I have to admit, ” I do like your jokes”
I dont really see a ban on religious activities of minority here except of preaching. btw, which religion allows Alcohol? I believe every religion whatsoever has denounced alcoholism & prostitution. Hence a ban on alcohol doesn’t mean a ban on religious activities. How many times we have heard abt attacks on churches & hindu or sikhs’ temples? very very rare & that too upon provocation.
BTW police has increased their bhatta after the said incident :) http://ummat.com.pk/leads_news/data/ummat_news-23092007-08.gif
@PORK-NAAN
remember, the secular and agnostic ppl r not criticising the holidays on Eid-fitr or Eid-ul-Azha. Most ppl r Muslims in Pakistan, and they have right to a holiday on these Eids. Similarly, USA has most ppl christians and they have this right too.
What is being criticized is denying ppl the right to go to a restaurant and eat something in Ramzan, or going out and drinking a decent alcoholic beverage. If USA denies ppl right to eat pork on Christmas day, that would be a moral equivalent.
If you don’t get this striaght in ur tiny brain, then every other expectation is useless.
Second, Jinnah was eating pork and drinking when he was adult. On the other hand, I was brought up (brainwashed) as Muslim…I had no choice. When I had consciousness and a mind of my own to think independently, then off course, I didnt see any rationaity in these beliefs.
You can brin my past (adolosent period) and criticize me for offering prayers 5 times a day, and fasting all days in ramzan, but that would be very childish, dont u think?
A word about Jinnah:
He was a political chameleon, just like Molana Fazlur Rehman in 3 piece suite.
He was Muslim fundamentalist when convincing Muslim religous leaders on Pakistan. He was federalist and anti-socialist policies of Congress when talking to Panjab’s unionist leaders. He was secular and modern when talking to Western media.
I belive there is nothing about Jinnah that should be taken seriously. He was just wanna-be “something” that he could never decide.
HITMAN you still dont get it, its about the State’s attitude towards the people and its constitution, read the whole speech please!! its not about minority rights or alcohol or prostitution.
“You may belong to any religion or caste or creed - that has nothing to do with the business of the State”
This means that State will not ask about your religion, in other words State does not care about religion, cast or creed of its citizens.
ALAM every speech has a context, the significance of the one I quoted is that it was delivered to the legislative assembly embarking on the job of making the constitution of Pakistan. As for Jinnah’s actions pre/post partition of India, that requires a separate discussion/scrutiny.
@Reality_Check
Historians agree on one thing: This jinnah’s speech on the legislative assembly, surprised ppl. If u want one reference for this claim, read three last articles of Dr. Ishitaq Ahmed, in this URL
http://www.statsvet.su.se/publikationer/ahmed/ahmed_daily_times_2005.htm
A glass of wine at dinner is good for you, it cuts down the fat and relaxes you. But if you abbuse alcohol , no matter who you are, you will put yourself and others in danger specially in the society where there are no alcohol anonymous programs.
HAPPY RAMADAN FOLKS! Fasting is recomended in every religion, it teaches you to control your temptations.
A glass of wine at dinner is good for you, it cuts down the fat and relaxes you. But if you abbuse alcohol , no matter who you are, you will put yourself and others in danger specially in the society where there are no alcohol anonymous programs.
HAPPY RAMADAN FOLKS! Fasting is recomended in every religion, it teaches you to control your temptations.
ALAM I know what Jinnah and Muslim League / Unionist parties of Nawabs and Jaagidars stood for. I was just making a point that after partition, during the quoted speech he is essentially saying that what has been done is done, lets move forward. However, that too was a pipe dream as he was sidelined by the all powerful class, and in 1948 he died a lost and lonely man. Since then every subsequent ruler of this country has re-invented the ideology of Pakistan and made a mockery of history.
Now people are make baseless assertion about trivial issue like alcohol, when essentially all our founding fathers drank it and the foremost ones also ate pork.
Alam, what I think you have still in your childhood era. As it’s said, Admi Pachpan me bachpan me chala jata hay :-)
reality, aha! so you say they ain’t speeches of Jinnah :-)
If you have not read speeches of Jinnah then not my fault. You re rather making fun of your own ignorance rather mine. spend some time in library rather preaching about fascist MQM everywhere. A humble advice otherise you’re free to babble on like minorities of Pakistan are free to worship anywhere. *grin*
to all alcoholics, your infinite rants and babblings can’t help to open wine shops in Pakistan nor could help others to stay away from Islam. Try to prove yourself enlightened as you claim. Broaden your mind and face the facts even if they are more bitter than a wine. :-). Trust me , your potty mouth language just reflects your frustration level. I am sure alcoholics here would have started consuming more liquor to overcome their frustration. But don’t get excited so much that you opt to try toxic liquor warna Dastaan bhe na hogi dastanoun mey . Thankyou to entertain me yet again. :-)
Evenyone keeps saying that we shouldn’t allow alcohol sales because it will ENCOURAGE alcoholism. The question is, why all of a sudden has mere availability become outright encouragement???
The government allows cigarettes to be sold, so are you telling me that the government and the state of Pakistan are actually encouraging smoking and lung cancer (because so many of you think that legal alcohol sales promote alcoholism).
We should have laws like in Turkey, you can drink if you want, but no one will force you to drink, and prevent you from doing so. Only in Pakistan do we think that everyone who doesn’t follow religion tooth and nail is cursed and must be avoided. Let me tell you, don’t wear your trousers below your ankles because TRUE muslims (ie Taleban, right?) say its haram. While youre at it, stop smoking, and showing your hair because thats unislamic. I hope Pakistan outlaws unveiled women, because obviously, its promoting vice. Do you realize how dumb these arguments are?
Drink if you want, and don’t preach to others. Cheers, Sante, Cin Cin, BSihha!
If u want to know abt Islam, don’t study muslims, study Quran instead. Muslims are humans and “To err is human”…………thats what the Hell is for right???
Its written nowhere that only muslims will go to Jannah or all muslims will go to Jannah. What really matters is an individuals own effort, how he helped himself and helped others, was he the one who really was in search of truth or just so dumb to follow their parents. Was he a true believer or lucky one to be born in a muslim family.
Wake up people! now is the time, snap out of it.
Excuses like bhutto was wrong or zia was the culprit won’t work on the day of judgement. You will only be asked abt ur acts and only ur acts.
@Tariq Khanani
The belief that every day is not the day of judgement, encourages lawlessness, didorderly conduct, and jungle law in Muslim socities.
If u belive in what Faiz said: “yahin sey uthay ga shore-e-mehshir, yehin peh yom-e-hisab ho ga”, more personal acountability will be promoted at all levels.
The belief that “one day”, “after death”, an accountant will open ur books, and then punish or reward you, is the root of all evil in our society. Every Muslim is roaming around committing crimes, hoping that he will go to haj, and ask for forgiveness, or donate 10 laks of illegal money to local madrassa to clean his act.
@Alam
Allah is well aware of ur intentions behind every good or bad deed u do. so these childish tricks won’t work.
U have been given a life, u have been provided with knowledge (Quran). U had Messengers of Allah to tell u the path of success. As i said earlier, don’t study muslims to judge Islam. This whole life is a test, don’t try to cheat and plz struggle and study, as u will do for seeking admission in MIT or something.
let them make fool of law and let them misconduct, they will get thier punishment don’t worry. but do worry abt urself.
Just came back from a trip to interior Baluchistan and Sindh. It was really heartening to see people sitting in hotels annd cafes eating and smoking to their hearts content, without anyone giving them a second glance. We were really hungry at one point at around 2 pm so we stopped at a roadside hotel that looked closed. We asked (rather timidly) if they were serving food. The guy asked us “Are you fasting?” and we said (with reservation) “Uh…no” and he’s like “Well then what’s the problem. Have a seat. We have chicken Karahi, chicken boti…”.
Just thought I’d put in that story to illustrate the fact that Pakistan isn’t as intolerant as we tend to believe, having been brought up in the cities. It is not nearly as religios as we tend to believe either. Thank god for that. I think us city slickers should take a lesson from our village bretheren and chill the f**k out. To eat his own. If someone wants to eat during ramadan or drink booze, leave him be.
@ME: if some one wants to drink, he/she can but not in public. as this is SUPPOSED to be a muslim country where every one is SUPPOSED to be fasting during ramzan aprat from traveller or a sick person.
and for ppl like u and @ALAM, Iqbal has written that
Taba-e-Azad pay Qaed-e-Ramzan bhari hay…
tumhee kehdo kia yehee Aien-e-Wafadari hay?
http://e-iqra.com/v2/pages/booksCat.php?id=33
Prophet (Blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Every intoxicant is forbidden. If a big quantity of any thing causes intoxication, its small quantity is forbidden”.
Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam) said: “Everyone who has faith in Allah and in the Last Day should not sit at a dining table where wine is passed around” .
The Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam) said “Allah and His Messenger had prohibited selling wine, dead animals, pig and idols” [ Bukhari and Muslim ].
Another Hadith reads: ‘Allah has cursed wine, its drinker, cup-bearer, one who squeezes it, one for whom it is squeezed, its seller, one who purchases it, its bearer, the one for whom it is carried and the one who consumer its prices.’ [ Abu Dawood and Ahmad ].
@ADNAN
reality, aha! so you say they ain’t speeches of Jinnah :-)
I dont know what point are you trying to make, or what inference you are drawing. Basically you have nothing to say, are you drunk?
Please dont force me to dwelve into ebarassing facts about Pakistan and Muslim history, dont drag me into that. Also, dont throw cheap shots about my utterrances about MQM. You are a prime example of negative reasoning+statement mongerring used by people like Bill O’Reilly, Go join FOX.
ME you have really nailed it. The common man, the poor in any part of the country has a very open heart and humility that is beyond compare. Its the seudo educated religous zealots, who want to take the so called ummah to the state of jaahiliat, anarchy and plunder that prevailed 1400 years ago in Arab society. So that they could make a fresh start from the beginning.
* seudo educated religous zealots, who want to take the so called ummah to the state of jaahiliat, anarchy and plunder
***** Please, oh phuleeze, stick to ‘ummat’ and don’t fall in the trap of people you are complaining about. In Pakistan lets stick to age old Namaz instead of salaat, hidayat instead of hidayah, and so on.
oh yeah, and don’t be harrassed into saying ‘Allah Hafiz’, if you have been saying ‘Khuda Hafiz’ for ages. Down with the extremists!
BALMA thank you for correcting me, but this is an occupational risk, when you lock horns with these guys so often, then something is bound to rub off, I’ll be careful next time.
Down with the philosophy that makes life so boring and worthless!
IUNKNOWN, SAM , TARIQ when it comes to personal choices like eating and drinking, you have a right to choose what and when, as your faith dictates. This is the same for others around you, as long as they are not infringing upon your personal space they too have the same fundamental rights.
True a society can legislate, but to what degree?, this I believe depends on how civilized the society is. Right now we dont even figure in the scale of 1-10.
@reality
not drinking anything, they are talking abt drinking alcohols in iftar.
“Aae Allah, maine teray liye roza rakha, tujh hi par Iman laya, aur tujh hi par bharosa kiya aur teri di huee beer se iftar kiya”
keep it up! Allah will be proud of you.
yeah reality_check, after all its namaz who is stopping u in to jahiliat… duh!!
its our mentality that is taking our selves to jjahiliyat.
The golden age of muslims clearly states that muslims were following islam very strongly and they invented some gr8 things.
see http://www.muslimsheritage.com for details
P.S. some brainless (so called seculars) are requested not to write long posts against this as they would be useless. How can a brainless person write some good thing after all?
IUNKNOWN in the Golden age, the Arabs came out of the desert and were fascinated by what they discovered. They ventured into Greek philosophy, science, arts, poetry and music. This happened from Baghdad to Qartaba. From Ibn-e-Sina to Ibn-e-Kahaladoon, all were persecuted by the so-called ulema’s and declared Kafir. The Arab scholars of that time delved deep into Mantaq and Falsafa and the universities of Faiz, Samarkan, Bukhara and Undloos promoted inter faith dialogue and taught secular subjects.
It was a weak Caliph of Baghdad who was forced by the Ulema in not supporting Khawazam Shah against Changez Khan, because he was shia and they were sunni. The result, ironically Baghdad was eventually destroyed by Changez Khan and the golden age ended.
@TARIQ the sooner you realize it the better that, not everyone shares the same faith as you. People have other ideas of how to live their lives or they follow a different belief system. So as long as they are not intruding on your personal private space, you also have no right to dictate to them how to live, eat and drink.
Its not such a complicated issue.
@TARIQ the sooner you realize it the better that, not everyone shares the same faith as you. People have other ideas of how to live their lives or they follow a different belief system. So as long as they are not intruding on your personal private space, you also have no right to dictate to them how to live, eat and drink.
Its not such a complicated issue.
@reality
my faith reflects that of a muslim, so sorry if u minded it.
TARIQ I didnt mind at all, I respect your faith but its not a unipolar world, people do have other faiths and other belief systems, all should be respected. Its a very personal matter. If you think that your’s is the ultimate truth then you have every right to preach and propagate but you dont have the right to impose. Also, when you preach you should expect some very tough questions, likes of which you thought cannot be asked.
@reality_check: so wat do u wanna say???
arabs did nothing??? or they did excellent?
continuing the previous work requires more struggle as u have to understand the previous things, which must have some glitches. also , it doesnt mean that they didnt invent ne thing their selves.
I m sure, had the arabs been in place of greeks at that time, arabs would have done much better than greeks
Read more history and stop reading stanley lane pool and other racist historians.
IUNKNOWN The torch of knowledge had been lit and carried by civilization after civilization from Babylon’s, Assyrians, Egyptians, Indians, Chinese, Greeks, Arabs, Europeans and the present day ones. Great men and women in every era have fought and endured persecution by priest, king and military to advance the cause of knowledge and free thinking.
The current age is unique i.e. not one but all the races from Americas to Europe and from Asia to Australia are working simultaneously to further the cause of science and exploration, hence such explosion of knowledge in every field. However, the only people that seem to be watching the show from the side lines are the ones practicing the Muslim faith. Ironically, they are the ones who claim to have the complete code of life.
In the present day diction there is a very appropriate word for ideas that have become outdated and replaced by newer / better ones i.e. “OBSOLETE”
@reality
i have said again and again that don’t study muslims to justify that islam is right or wrong, study islam instead. by reading your comments it seems that u want to separate muslims fro the rest of the world and u urself are trying to sideline them.
Islam has given complete code of life and muslims are expected to follow it. but if they don’t it doesn’t mean that their religion is responsible.
everybody in their childhood is taught not to tell lies but do everyone follows it, no, so who is responsible, definitely the individual.
TARIQ it’s not about Muslims, the fact is that mankind has taken enormous leaps forward after settling religion on a back seat. It’s ok for me if religion is practised as a means of personal solace and well being. However, (for me) religion is not the right model to follow when seeking knowledge or truth or a just social order, because religion essentially tells you what to do, what to question and what not to. No matter how liberal a religion is, as a follower you have to work within its frame work. Whereas, to seek knowledge the golden rule is, “Question every thing”, nothing is divine or sacred.
As an adult one of the first things I did was to challenge my inherited faith and when it failed rigorous scrutiny, I gave it up.
“the only people that seem to be watching the show from the side lines are the ones practicing the Muslim faith. Ironically, they are the ones who claim to have the complete code of life”
Its due to their lazyness, not the faith DUDE!
Also, do u think ppl like tariq azeem, parvaiz musharraf and durrani are muslims?? never ever. they are disguising their selves as muslims. These kinda ppl are stopping the progress of our country.
Those illeterate jahil politicians are stopping the progress of our country. IT, IT ,IT , they keep barking that but never have done ne thing to improve software export etc etc.. They never invited ne company like DELL or MS to come here and invest. now dont tell me that these companies are afraid of suicidal bombings.
we need to get rid of all such politicians first, before we can go ahead.
P.S. The above lines have been said in teh context of pakistan only, not the whole muslims world. Every country has its problems