Here she comes…. Benazir Bhuto
The year 2007 seems to bring all the politicians back to the country that were in exile. (Whether or not they are deported is another case.) With Benazir Bhutto announcing to land on Karachi on October 18, we see billboards welcoming her in advance. This billboard is installed at a prominent location near Baloch Colony flyover and was used by some MQM supporters in favor of Altaf bhai some time back. (Lets keep our finger crossed and expect “Altaf Bhai” to announce his date of coming back as well.)
“Lay ker rahey ga har insaan, Roti kapra makan” (Wow! How much luggage is she allowed to carry?)
Look who is talking
@jajay: u are more pathetic than any thing else in this world.
u can argue wid a mad person but not wid a fool
@alam: keep taunting on islam and muslims
when u spit on moon , it always comes over u again.
The agriculture tax and the land reforms – that is what the Nominee President – Justice (R) Wajih was discussing on AAJ TV wednesday night – Live With Talat Hussain.
I picked the prog from middle where he was quiet apologetic in response to caller for why is that Supreme court is not taking suo motto notice of rising cost of daily consumables and high rate of sucides in urban localities. Further we explained what his top agenda would be if he wins and thereby lead the country with able technocrates.
Smartly enough – :)
Justice (R) Wajeeh uddin is a Karachitie who is pinching the pulse of every one, and some how he surfaced for presendtial candidate nomitaned by lawyers.
if any one can grab the show and post on YOU TUBE – program name is: Live with Talat Hussain 2200 hrs – Wednesday 03 10 2007 edition, that would be a great post on this blog.
@ Adnan Siddiqui
Any references to support your claim that “MQM is supporting PPP(Benazir)’s return”?
In my opinion, they must not! that would not be fair to innocent young people who were brutally murdered in extra-judicial killings by her regime and way too naive for MQM to forget how BB’s regime ditched them in the past.
I was in Karachi during the 1990’s operation clean up and have witnessed the full-scale massacare of young activits of MQM; to be honest I don’t see any reason for the 1990’s operation cleanup except that Wadairas were afraid of MQM’s rising power and they needed a way to “take care” of it, hence the operation cleanup.
By the way, re-read my previous comment one more time; I do recognize the need for MQM to change their current path :) I would not stop supporting MQM until I see any other party who is able to bring forward the middle-class to our assemblies.
On a side note (again, just a request, feel free to disregard), stop humping everything that sounds/smells/feels like MQM :)
Slightly off topic but very relevant to current debate. Souds like Karachi University has developed lal masjid brigade of its own;
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/miscellaneous/story/2007/10/071002_ajmal_jarida_sen.shtml
When are we going to start dispatching these criminals (aasteen kay saanp) back to pethankot?
I think effect of Wajihuddin’s campaign would be more pressure on both Musharaf and Benazir to do a deal in order to keep Wajihuddin out. No one wants another person to share the pie with.
@Manny: yes I read in news paper,I don’t remember the date but the statement given by Farooq Sattar, Not once but twice or thrice that MQM will not mind to team up with PPP. You made a statement and I disagree. it doesn’t mean you are being labeled for something. You re free to follow whoever you want. Maybe I would have experienced MQM more than you. Frankly speaking it doesn’t make sense u have to support “anyway”, seems like a foreceful decision to me. I supported MQM till it deserved to be supported. When they tracked changed and start following terrorism then I simply left. Not a difficult task. it’s everyone’s right.
I have also witnessed 90 in karachi and since you are old reader of this blog, you would have read my posts regarding 90s experience.
SELF & SHAHIDNUSA Income Tax is not like Sales Tax or excise duty. Its not a Tax on a product, its on your income. So how come when your income is such that you can afford multiple SUV’s / multiple palaces and not pay Tax just because your income is from Agriculture, whereas a guy who barely affords a bike pays Tax on his income. Thats something unique to Pakistan, remind you it has no bearing on prices, its just a blackmailing stunt.
Furthermore, I am not sure if these folks pay any Tax on Agricultural property, if they do then how much?
To add to the above the prices of agri products will only come down if the current outdated system is thrown out of the window. This in-efficient system is failing to deliver, and is tailored to serve the feudals with large land holdings. It neither suits the farmer or the consumer.
Reality_Check, because you don’t know what you are talking about so here is an example;
Say a landlord earns 1,000,000 without tax. Now say 20% tax is enforced by government. The landlord will raise the cost of his produce such that his income is now 1,250,000 and even after giving 20% tax on it his net income is still 1,000,000. So who won? The government who got the tax (and we all know where it goes…not to public). Who lost? The public who will have to pay increased food prices. Who was unaffected? The landlord.
Businessmen (of any sort) are generally unaffected by taxes as they can generally set their own prices, within reason, and can pass any additional costs to consumers. The losers generally are the end consumers as they have no one else to pass the cost to, in the economic chain.
@Alam
Yes. Just as i thought. Raised a red heering to dilute the issue.
Do try and stand on your own 2 feet next time instead of relying on rushdie or sweedish cartoons or indian army and see if you can carry on a discussion on your own.
@Alam
Yes. Just as i thought. Raised a red herring to dilute the issue.
Do try and stand on your own 2 feet next time instead of relying on rushdie or sweedish cartoons or indian army and see if you can carry on a discussion on your own.
SELF so where is free market and competition to check the prices, all around the world prices of agricultural produce are going down, does that mean that the govermants are not collecting the income tax?
No, it means that farmers are producing more, paying their taxes and keeping the prices competitive. Look at India or Bangladesh, dont their farmers pay Tax, then how come their prices are much lower than ours.
The fact is, in our country a landlord cultivates only a fraction of available land, lets say if he has 30,000 acres out of which only 5-10000 will be cultivated, the poor farmer will get enough to get by, the land lord will get the lions share, will get the support prices from the govt of which he is part and parcel). The system stinks. It does not encourage competition, it does not motivate the ordinary farmer as there is no need to produce more. Look at the livestock sector, we are still sheperding the herds the old fashioned way, there is a severe protien shortage and prices are jumping like anything.
Comparing with other businesses, currently, the inflation in agri products is already much much higher than industrial produce. The system stinks, it has failed, Now its the time to run it like any other business or industry – no exception. Give the land to those who can cultivate it, pay Tax to get infrastructure, education and health, its not a rocket science or is it?
@Reality_Check:
bhai, you sound so well-informed and up-to-date, you know everything about the history and the feudal system sh** of the great Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Why don’t you go ahead and tell us the names of these sucker land lords and feudals who have been screwing the country for 60 years?
Who are they basically? Mahajir or Punjabis?
What are their names?
How much would their net worth be?
Did they bribe Jinnah to give them a separate state?
How much they initially invest and the whats their growth rate?
Time to reveal some more truth so please enlighten us if you can.
KASHIF I dont know are you being sarcastic or inquisitive, any case here are some links, you may not agree with all that is posted, but will give you interesting insights on the questions being raised;
http://www.pakistaneconomist.com/database1/cover/c96-28.asp
http://www.sacw.net/2002/HamzaAlaviNov02.html
http://www.countryrisk.com/editorials/archives/cat_pakistan.html
http://indianmavericks.blogspot.com/2007/08/lal-masjid-feudalism-vs-democracy.html
Here I am borrowing a post from another blog and quoting as is;
“Feudalism is almost like an organization. It doesn`t matter which party they belong to. PPP and PML MNAs regularly change loyalties. They usually reprsent the two most powerful feudals in a constituency – one on one party, and one in the other. They are part of one clan, with similar views.
If you look at the statistics of Pakistan`s National Assembly, you will notice that generally balances around 60-66% feudal members. That range has been constant for a long time. This indicates that it is quite stable. Bhuttos are the unofficial leaders and interface for feudals. They hold the feudal flag. Jatoi maybe a bigger landonwer, but he does not have the charisma of a Zulfiqar or Benazir Bhutto. So the feudals have wisely kept the Bhuttos in front. Jatoi cannot talk to Hillary Clinton, in her language, but Benazir can. “
Oh!! One point I forgot i.e. five percent of agricultural households – between them own 64 percent of Pakistan’s farmland.
Sorry guys, for the lenghty posts, but it is very hard to stop….
Reality_Check,
Don’t forget the Army’s role but we found Altaf and he betrayed us, that alone tells us he was Army’s puppet. I think some leader will come within us and change everything otherwise common men being weak always crushed by Feudal + Army Combo. Until then we need to be content what’s best for the country.
Thank you, Rality_Check. There was no sarcasm or anything like that when I asked you that question. The links that you pointed me to are quite informative too, however, I still would like to know the names of some of the feudals like who are they, what do they look like, do the come on TV etc. etc? You know what I mean.
I am just being curious since this political drama that has been going on in the country has caught my attention.
Guys n Gals this site needs your two cents Um I mean paisas. Some dude there is twisting the facts in his favor.
More than 20 years ago, I met a professor type who was a grand nephew of the famous Wright brothers. I was fascinated by his name and started talking to him. I found out that he taught history and had done some research on Pakistan’s political families. When I asked him who funded his reserach, I guess he mentioned state dept (if you catch the drift) but it is so long ago now and my memory is blurred.
One topic we discussed was inbreeding among Pakistan’s political families (read criminal families). I will admit that even as a young college kid, I purchaared against inbreeding within a family ( cousin marriages).
Any way, I requested him to send me a copy of his paper, and he did. I still have that paper somewhere in my kabaaR but it tells you how these mofu’s are all related. For example, Pir Pagara has a wife, one from each province. I am exaggarating here, but you get my point. Jatoi’s sister is married to this family’s badmash politician from Panjab whose sister is married to this harami politician of Baluchistan.
These fucking moronic jahils are all related. And, the educated young people are just fighting on KMB.
the paper also described how these politicans are married to military families and sarkari babus. Eg. Ayub Khan’s criminal son Gauhar Ayub is married to Vali Swat’s daughter or something like this.
Based on my knowledge, another group in Pakistan that is bit inbred is military.
For example, Zia’s criminal son, Ejaz-ul_haq I believe is married to Gen Rahim’s daugther.
Gen Rahim’s wife was daughter of ex Karachi University VC, Mahmood Hussain who was a brother of Dr. Zakir Hussain (An Indian President in 60’s). So apparently, if this dumb ass Ejaz-ul-Haq (what is this idiot’s source of income?) has any kids, these kids are related to two presidents of the sub continent. My comment: if they are any intelligent, that must be from their nanihyaal, because father side is pretty retarded.
Anyway, Budnazir also married a small time political family’s cheap ass, non-matriculated, Bambino cinema operator Zardari and made him a billionire (meray may kaantay thay?) , and Karachi kay daadaa Altaf Hussain married daughter of some sindhi balochi politcal family. But, ho sakta hae yeh sachaa pyaar thaa?
Only God knows better!
“SELF so where is free market and competition to check the prices, all around the world prices of agricultural produce are going down”
Yeah, like how market forces keep the food prices down now. (not)
“does that mean that the govermants are not collecting the income tax?”
Quiet possibly. Many countries including Europe and US give huge subsidies to their farmers. In fact farmers in the eastern European countries joining EU, who previously had to work hard for living under communism, can’t believe their luck when they get paid by EU to NOT produce the crop to avoid over supply and causing lower prices. US government buys huge quantities of crop at high prices from some farmers and then either burns it over sends oversees (sometimes as aid to poor countries) to avoid market flooding and price drop again for the benefit of farmers.
No sane country messes up with its food supply.
“Oh!! One point I forgot i.e. five percent of agricultural households – between them own 64 percent of Pakistan’s farmland. ”
I would like to see some credible evidence for this…
Also you forgot to mention some other monopolies…
80% of bhata business in Karachi is controlled by MQM. When can others have a share?
MQM considers Karachi its Jageer and shoots/kills anyone who it does not like. I can’t imagine any other Jageer worst than this anywhere in Pakistan except may be Wazirastan. When can we have this Jageer eliminated? Or is it s case of chore machaay shore?
It is true that the feudals have controlled pakistan for way too long. But it is also true that there is no credible alternative available. What choices are there? lets see:
– Benazir and Nawaz are corrupt to the core and will bankrupt pakistan once again.
– Altaf hussain leads a linguistic and race based organization that proudly uses terrorism as a political tool. Its ethnic base by definition renders it a racist organization so it is going to always be limited to its linguistic roots no matter how right its political message may be. NO one outside karachi is going to vote for it. That will remain a fact until Altafa and his terror buddies leaves the scene.
Thus you are left with no choice and so the same 3 discredited looters ie nawaja, budnazir and altafa keep getting elected. What we need is real choice and real leaders from the middle class. Until then, the same picture will keep repeating itself.
*
cos thats exactly what Nusrat Bhutto did in 1950’s. Just to refresh memory, Nusrat was a married iranian cabaret dancer who met Zulfiqar in the swinging 60’s and then ditched her husband after having an extra marital affair. If Sindhis are proud to be part of this sort of family—I wish all the best.
****
What does it have to do with Sindhis?
Secondly, Nusrat Bhutto is not (or is she ‘was’) even sindhi. According to sindhi definition and even MQM defintion, she is a Muhajir. So Budnazir bitch is half Sindhi, half Muhajir.
Nusrat Bhutto was born in Bombay to parents who did not speak any language native to Pakistan.
This fits the profile of a Muhajir according to MQM. And works well with how everybody else thinks in Pakistan.
If we started educating every villager of Pakistan fourty years ago, we would have some decent leadership and a good competition by now.
The past is past we can learn from it,but it cannot be improved.
But the future can!
Budnazir bitch
Language please, you don’t need to use foul language if your comments are valid.
According to Historians if there were no landowners and Army faction involved then there wouldn’t be any Pakistan. I guess Altaf Hussain (Champion of common Men) attested it too.
SELF there is no such thing as quiet possibly …., the countries you mentioned do give subsidies, because they are producing much more than they can eat or even throw away. Its the same when some industries are subsidized or given protection from foreign competition, but still the TAX is there, they might get a temporary waiver. Nobody distinguishes b/w income types. Income Tax is Income Tax plane and simple.
Also, it was sad for me to see you drag MQM into this discussion, my intent was only to point out some real issues plagueing this country since its creation, whatever MQM does or does not is in-consequential in the broader spectrum of Pakistani Politics. The above postings are not about Sindhi, Mohajir, Punjabi or Pakhtoon, however, the feudals will love it if its seen that way.
BTW Karachi is nobody’s jaagir, ppl can throw out MQM whenever they choose too, its upto others to prove themselve worthy of their vote.
My dear you have disputed the statistics. These facts have been documented by not only Pakistani but also major international development related orgs, who have been pleading with Pakistan to reform.
Finally, yes I do advocate that there should be some sort of working relationship b/w PPP & MQM otherwise if hot heads on both sides get their way then this province will quickly descend into chaos. Furthermore, I believe that the most immediate threat facing this country is suicidal extremism, to counter it we require all hands on deck.
NEENA Altaf Hussain may or may not be the champion of the common man, Here, I am not going to argue on his behalf. This land has produced many who fought for this cause. The irony is that even socialist parties like PPP and ANP were infilterated by the landed gentry. They stopped Zulfiquar Bhutto from innitiating land reforms and later dumped him.
I strongly recommend that you go through the links that I have posted earlier.
I personally consider MQM, JI, lawyers, journalist and politicians like Sheikh Rasheed, Iqbal Haider, Aitzaz Ahsan all from the middle classes fighting it out with each other in the name of democracy, religion, constitution and other in-consequential issues, while the ruling elite watches the Tamasha, walks in and sits on the high chair…..We may not be able to stop this, but the least we can do is keep the real issues alive!
“Also, it was sad for me to see you drag MQM into this discussion”
Not at all…when we talk of jageerdaary we must not miss out the biggest Jageerdaar of all; Altaf Hussain. Which other Jageerdaar can prohibit the country’s CJ to enter his Jageer? to name just one of numerous incidents of Jageerdaaree.
“BTW Karachi is nobody’s jaagir, ppl can throw out MQM whenever they choose too, its upto others to prove themselve worthy of their vote.”
That may be bit difficult for others..as most wouldn’t stoop so low as MQM and their supporters would. Who would get his people to write ‘Imran Kutta’ and spoil the walls of one’s own city (sorry Jageer) for one’s ego? Only the biggest Jageerdaar Altaf Bhai. Why would he not instead get his supporters to spend their time teaching young children for instance and do some good? instead of demonstrating how big a Jageerdaar he is?
btw when is there going to be income tax on MQM bhatta?
* Reality_check wrote
personally consider MQM, JI, lawyers, journalist and politicians like Sheikh Rasheed, Iqbal Haider, Aitzaz Ahsan all from the middle classes fighting it out with each other in the name of democracy, religion, constitution and other in-consequential issues, while the ruling elite watches the Tamasha, walks in and sits on the high chair.
***
I am totally fascinated by this statement. How True.
Actually, I recently read an interview of Budnazir B* recently (I guess on BBC or CNN website) where the idiot Bitch (oh, I couldn’t control it the second time) admits that she wins in Pakistan because the majority of people in Pakistan are uneducated. She is publically admiting it. Can anyone believe this? How bad it has to get that baighairat does not even mind saying this in open. Dill may toe khush hotee ho gee, laikn kambakht Budnazir is so brave and in-your-face now that she does not mind giving illiteracy the credit even in public.
Ahhh….
SELF I will not travel on the beaten track with on this one. You have come here too late to enjoy the earlier battles .The arguments that you are presenting are not new. In fact there are commentators on this blog that do even better job, please go through such exchanges in the archives of this blog posted below for your convenience. This will save space, as well as time.
BTW Karachi is doing just fine and is rapidly moving forward.
http://karachi.metblogs.com/archives/2007/09/terror_rules_ka.phtml
http://karachi.metblogs.com/archives/2007/08/scared_of_karac_1.phtml
http://karachi.metblogs.com/archives/2007/09/terror_rules_ka.phtml
http://karachi.metblogs.com/archives/2007/09/proposals_for_a.phtml
I am sorry guys but I have to type this :)
@ BALMA
Do you ever get serious?
Ab is kadar bi na hasao ke dum nikal jaey LOL!
*Ab is kadar bi na hasao ke dum nikal jaey LOL!
***
what was so funny?
Reality_Check, I really appreciate your tireless effort to present the ground realities on this forum even when some ppl try to distract you by bringing in unrelated issues.
That’s right…keep screwing people of Karachi in the name of MQM and when someone complains, scream “jageerdaaree” and call it ground reality.
chore machaay shore..
SELF Dont Pass judgements sitting in Islamabad or whereever you are. The elections are near, that would be the day when people will have their say.
As for you keep on cherishing your feudals, nobody is stopping you. But I have many friends who’s thinking is not as miniscule as yours.
Rest assured nobody is complaining, we are all moving forward. Finally, for good or for worse people of this city control their own destiny and no feudal can change that.
If we started educating every villager of Pakistan fourty years ago, we would have some decent leadership and a good competition by now.
yeah,after experiencing few commentors here, seems we made a blunder forty years ago. *shakes head*
I am intrigued at MQM supporters complaining about feudalism. What is the biggest complaint about feudals they have; that feudals don’t pay taxes. How much tax does MQM pay? Instead they forcefully collect bhatta. At least traditional fuedals provide cheap food from their farms for everyone…MQM instead takes lives. I can’t see how traditional feudals are any worst than MQM, the new urban feudals.