8 Reasons why MQM should stay away from presidential poll
Keeping it local I wonder if MQM will vote for a man who in all practical/real terms is ONLY the president of PML-Q (Pakistan Military League of Quacks) than the president of Pakistan. The rest of land is either in the hands of Chaudhries (Punjab), Waderas (Sindh) or Aliens (NWFP+Balauchistan) or men with gun. They may consider doing a re-think as:-
1. President represents unity of federation (Sindh/NWFP/Punjab/Balauchistan) in parliamentary system/constitution & Mush doesn’t. He came through a rigged & designed (himself accepting some irregularities on TV) referendum by intelligence agencies.
2. A president is supposed to be neutral while ours openly defy constitution and appears in PML-Q gatherings, takes side in speeches & lectures the nation to vote for a particular side of his like-minded thinking.
3. Musharraf would go down in history as cheater who excused himself on senseless pretexts while promising on state TV to doff uniform.
4. Considers himself sent by divine declaration & without him this nation that boasts about its fertility in talent cannot survive anymore. Had he used his valuable time reading history he would know Cheghez used to think the same. Even this self created myth broke into pieces two days back when he struck a deal with the party of thieves in his own words kionki doobtey ko tinkey ka sahara chaiye & Mush was indeed sinking so he compromised on his own 7 point agenda.
5. A man in uniform cannot be president, says constitution. If anyone says 17th amendment allowed, it was wrong as the same constitution doesn’t allow any change in its basic structure (civil servants cannot govern.). If the counter argument is the SC allowed, it than even that was wrong (as its proved now as many SC judges lately/openly/recently said e.g Bhagwandas/Iftikhar Chaudhry ). Moreover SC has the right to review its own judgment.
6. MQM is the only party that wants Army out of politics completely. This they compromised few years back but now can clean themselves if they stay away today from this process.
7. Voting for a man in uniform will end their strong argument about wadera system which in fact is the courtesy of Generals (majority of whom relatives of these jageerdars/sarmayadars) else it can be said Kis muu se jaaogey vote maangney ke liye Altaf, sharam tumko magar nai aati.
8. The president by all public opinion polls has loose credibility and trust of this nation and giving him energy would be making a ghost a reality. In any case if PPP comes to power, rest assure it has many Naseer-ullah Babars waiting to settle the May 12 score.
قانونی ماہر خواجہ حارث کا کہنا ہے کہ حکومت نے قومی مصالحتی آرڈیننس کے نام پر ایک انوکھا کام کیا ہے۔ ان کے مطابق اٹھارہ سواٹھانوے کے ضابطہ فوجداری کے قانون کی شق چارسو چورانوے کے تحت استغاثہ عدالت کی اجازت سے کوئی مقدمہ واپس لے سکتا ہے۔ تاہم استغاثہ یا ریاست از خود یہ مقدمہ واپس لینے کے مجاز نہیں ہوتے۔
قانونی ماہر خواجہ حارث کا کہنا ہے کہ حکومت نے قومی مصالحتی آرڈیننس کے نام پر ایک انوکھا کام کیا ہے۔ ان کے مطابق اٹھارہ سواٹھانوے کے ضابطہ فوجداری کے قانون کی شق چارسو چورانوے کے تحت استغاثہ عدالت کی اجازت سے کوئی مقدمہ واپس لے سکتا ہے۔ تاہم استغاثہ یا ریاست از خود یہ مقدمہ واپس لینے کے مجاز نہیں ہوتے۔
MQM Was the only party which had:
1)biggest miraculous support of the biggest city of the Pakistan.
2)Agenda to getrid of Feudalism. Even Bhutto didn’t comeup with such thing. The *Roti Kapra Makan* was not a war against Fudalism.
3)Getrid of Quota System which literally made us suffer for decades.
4) ability to listen issues of Middle Class because they also brought up in areas like Nazimabad,Azizabad,Lalukhet,FB Area etc. This is something was not in other parties including “Awami” PPP.
5) The Mohajir Factor
6)Against Army after 90s Operation.
Unfortunately they lost the track and got busy in *other stuff*. Altaf lost the chance to make this city a role model and Mohajir Community an examplory community which was already educated and consisted of professionals. Alas, Altaf’s lust for Money and stupidity made him to miss this chance. If he was honest, I am sure he could earn more money and respect than he has today. Karachiites were ready to sacrifice everything for him. He betrayed his own people and become reason of their destruction. Altaf didn’t use his charismatic personality(Yes he had. When I witness myself people become silent like deadbodies on his “Khamosh!!” in various Jalsas. Even Nawaz Sharif admitted it) for the betterment of Mohajirs. If he had used this power to order Mohajirs to take quality education, get busy in welfare work then no other community in Pakistan could beat Mohajirs. Mohajirs *did* listen him but on destructive calls. *sigh*
All sad but true. Even Altaf repent today and get ready to serve Mohajirs by all means, I am sure many like me would look towards him again and would vote for him but then I am asking something which is not possible.
Jab moo ko Haram lag jaye tu asani se nijat nai milti
MQM zindabad
Rightly said, Adnan.
On Principal you are correct but unfortunately principals are to be followed when your opponents ( in this case gang of mullahs MMA , PML (N) for personal reasons and few nationalists ) follow the same principals. I agree that two wrongs can not make one right but then we should be following a practical and realistic approach towards.
MQM should vote - and voted today for the reasons President Mushraff stood for - that is economical progress, war against religious fanatics , devolution of power , fair share of power and division of resources to smaller provinces.
MQM took a toll by boycotting the first Local Bodies Elections - on principal and Jamat came to power.
So , principal anyone? Only when there is universality of agreement on conduct and codes by all opponents!
Bravo MQM, Bravo Mushraff
Barrister Ali K.Chishti
This economic progress ?
http://islamabad.metblogs.com/archives/2007/10/awaam_aur_hakoomat_expense_she.phtml
Contrary to what is said above. I think in the past five years Muttahida has finally made all the right tactical moves in the context of Pakistan Politics. This has brought Karacahi out of perpetual oppposition syndrome which has plagued this city since time un-known. Finally, there is movement forward in this city, and its the people that are direct benefitiaries. Historically, when it was time to bring down a govt it was always Karachi that was in forefront of any agitation and when it was time to form a govt, this city was conveniently sidelined. Thats the case no-more people of Karachi now have a voice and a say in the future of the city / country.
The points listed by MB and ADNAN are nothing but emotional rhetoric. Despite the setbacks of the past eight months, like it or not, Musharraf is still the sole unifying figure in this country for both civil & millitary jaunta’s. None of the political parties can profess that claim.
Around the world people waste much less time on politics / politicians as they are busy working in their respective spheres and have no or little time to waste. This trend has caught on in Pakistan and its a sign of progress. This means people have work to do.
I believe that circumstances and time have overtaken many of the items of grievances on the MQM agenda. Rather than focusing on the issues such public service/educational quota and feudalism, it is now time to revitalize Karachi as the safest business destination in Pakistan as it used to be.
MQM can still play the role in the city by reinventing itself an organization which focuses in facilitating business activities in the city, not the one which thrives in harassing businessmen through ‘bhutta’ and forcing the party supporter on businesses for employment. By streamlining the process of obtaining various licenses (or eliminating the politics of licenses altogether) a conducive environment can be created. Karachi being a victim of politics of subjectivity and nepotism, MQM should ensure the city is governed locally with objectivity, merit, openness and fairness.
Next, MQM will have to take it as challenge to reduce the curse of robbery and street crimes by using its political weight to lead comprehensive reforms to the city’s law enforcement, investigation and prosecution system.
Third, the public transport is the issue need to be tackled head-on and now. If MQM can make it a point to have their man (with a rather dark history) as the Governor and now the withdrawal of all criminal (including terrorism-related) cases against their workers, the party surely can twist the arm of centre to make it underwrite international loans to finance a world-class mass transport system.
A city with thriving business activities will have enough employment opportunities that the ‘issue of quota’ will become irrelevant and so will many other problems of the citizens. It will also have to drop its political moorings, which reduces the MQM to an ethnicity (how about Karachi Development Movement?)
MQM, in the form of Mustapha Kamal, is focusing rightly in developing infrastructure but more important is create an environment which could bring back investor’s trust and citizens’ security. The rest will come automatically as a result.
Last, but not the least, the president, which is good for the city, should be the MQM’s choice for vote.
OMG! OHMYGOD ADNAN! I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU! Is this a dream? You are finally starting to grow up! Good post! What you have written here explain the past and the present of MQM in a very good and honest way.
What I still do not see is how this blog entry has anything to do with Karachi Metroblogging? It should be more about events and happenings in Karachi. This blog is becoming more and more like a personal blog for personal opinions while this should not be the case. This blog should rather promote Karachi on the world map by highlighting the events and stories related to Karachi NOT by personal opinions and grudges.
ADMIN, Please… seriously wake up! We have started to fight and have dispute everywhere. On TV, Radio and now on the internet too. Why? Because we let personal feelings run higher than the feeling of the responsibility. There are a hundreds of things happening in the city right now, as I type this but absolutely NONE has been mentioned here. I ask you why? Why do we have to keep on indulging in the political scenario alllll the time? Why can’t we remember what Metroblogging is about and what our responsibilities are when we write personal opinions here on KMB?
JAYJAY couldnt I have followed your posts at Metblog ISB during the Lal Masjid incident and have always valued your views. When I see above and compare your points with those of the nay sayers, I see forward thinking v/s regression. I am glad to say that majority in this city will second your thoughts.
Reality_Check : Thanks, I equally admire your thoughts, which I found full of logic and objectivity. I am not a Karachiite but I think Pakistan cannot progress without normalizing Karachi and restoring economic activities there. However, the key to it all lies with the citizens of Karachi primarily (especially MQM).
One more thing - After years of fighting, confuson , ideological re-discoveries and political lessons the greatest plus that has come out of MQM is that, it has provided a crop of dynamic, young go-getting leaders in sharp contrast to statement mongerring Newspaper Politician and thats the essence of middle class politics.
I have said earlier that the way the middle class is growing in Punjab, moving forward the feudals will ultimately be sidelined. This country doesnt need any ideological definition which could keep it eternally in struggle/strife mode, all it needs to do is to get its act together and discover the potential of its hardworking people.
emotional rhetoric
Emotional? right. If you call it emotional then you should curse First menifesto of MQM which addresses all such issues I mentioned above.
Kia Zamana hay, those(read “kal k londay laparay”) who recently heard about MQM are telling what’s wrong or right about MQM to those who spent(read wasted) a decade for that party.
@Zee: Kid, I had grownup that’s why I don’t support Altaf’s militant party anymore. You might be in K.G classes when I along with others were active during election campaign of MQM in late 80s and than early 90s. I felt the major shift in MQM’s policy that is more towards destruction.
hmm !
nice points !! MQM is going to loose much of its support if it continued to support Musharraf in this way !!!
LEts keep our fingers crossed ! I am a supporter of MQM ! but i dont support Musharraf !or the MQM’s support for Mush!
I think MQM should be a little bit more careful in supporting such a SHIT!
Well, slightly off the topic but another X Police officer goes down,thanks to the target killing. here
Ironically, Reality does say right that all I mentioned which was associated with EARLY MQM was “Emotional”. Surely MQM played with the emotions of suppressed class(URDU Speaking people) and fooled them for more than a decade and then betrayed them.
Sitting thousands of miles away and talking about “ground realities” sound so lame.
ADNAN I am a recent arrival in North America, and have been through the whole grind this city has gone through. I dont want to start a IOI with you again, because its obvious that we see life from very different angles. However, I appreciate an effort from your part to be objective and re-frain from name calling / slogan mongerring. This way you would be able to engage in dialogue with people of different views and your voice will not be lost in a mud slinging exercise. People do change and only change is ever lasting.
Musharraf supporters (mainly MQM guys) r celebrating his win in North Nazimabad at the moment with aerial firing & fireworks. Fireworks look good but sound work is horrible.
I think like the rest of the country, in Karachi too every party is looking for a quick gain for themselves instead of long term prosperity for the nation/community. However what worries me most about MQM are their core values. Until 12 May one could have imagined that MQM has finally grown into a proper political party…but successive actions by MQM since then have put serious questions on their legitimacy as a political party. MQM are using the same classic tactics as used by Mafia elsewhere - see the Godfather trilogy and you will notice many similarities immediately; target killing anyone who comes in their way; lawyers, police men, dissidents etc., harassing judges, racketeering and so on. I don’t know any other political party that does that to this level. Sure, Mullah parties have their militant wings like Jamiat but at national level, unlike MQM, they do try to maintain a political facade. Unfortunately it seems there is no one in MQM who can stand up to this and make MQM take a turn for the better. I have a feeling things will get worst (with MQM, and as a result for Karachi) before they will get better, now that MQM has an avid supporter of their crimes in general Musharaf. Of course one still hopes for the best.
After this poll exercise, the best thing that has come out is the before and after stands of politicians / parties are in public domain.
There are those on both side of the divide whose pro/against stand has been consistent and there are those who have lurked in grey areas. Its your judgement call, have your pick.
There is only one reason - Altaf Hussain is a terrorist. He is a Bihari Hindu who shot innocent people and ran away. MQM can become a good party without him and bring in some educated decent person. I like Musafa Kamal.
However, I appreciate an effort from your part to be objective and re-frain from name calling / slogan mongerring
calling MQM a fascist party shouldn’t be considered name calling. Anyone who have experienced MQM a lil bit would be able to figure out difference in their policies or I say actions. I am surprised that things I mentioned today are not something new,neither I have changed my point of view and few pro-MQM people saying “Wah Wah”. It’s just I tried to expose MQM further how they changed their point of view in 19 years.
The day you guys made the difference between newly born MQM and rascal MQM of today, you would be able to figure out why MQM is opposed today by their own people. Why it was loved before, I already said that.
I have hope maturity level would increase with the passage of time and more mohajirs will stand against MQM’s militant policies.
@Ablai, thanks for reminding Behari factor. MQM had also promised to bring “Mehsoreen” back in Pakistan but even after 35+ years, they are unable to associate their Pakistani identity with themselves. MQM betrayed on this promise as well. Instead Altaf was begging India to give Mohajirs shelter when he called creation of Pakistan a mistake. I think Pakistan is the only country where traitors are welcomed more than heroes. This is why Gen.Niazi,Yahya,Bacha Khan and Altaf are respected more than heroes.
In case if anyone looking for Pervez Musharraf interview with Kamran Khan >>>> here is the link for it
http://www.pakmusicblog.com/04-10-07-kamran-khan-interviews-general-pervez-musharraf-complete-90-minutes-video-watch-it-now/
“I think Pakistan is the only country where traitors are welcomed more than heroes.”
Oh, I don’t know let’s see…
Maududi: Famous for his “na-pakistan”, opposition to creation of Pakistan…also calling jihad-e-Kashmir haraam, the only time any significant portion of Kashmir was liberated.
Syed Ataullah Shah Bukhari: “kisee maan nain wo bachaa nahain jana jo Pakistan kee pay bhee bana sakay”…
“Maulana” Mufti Mehmood: “ham Pakistan banaanay kay gunah main shareek nahain thay”…
yeah I guess you are right…
Why is this blog becoming more and more political?
I agree with Adnan that “Jab moo ko Haram lag jaye tu asani se nijat nai milti”
Ahaaa! the winers are back again with their foul language. Poor frustrated souls….Go out and celebrate… get a life…brooding is not good for health.
If the world could be changed by cursing, then every great leader would have used it. You guys remind me of Uncle Sirgam’s Miss Museebtee….Maaseee teri Maan….Maasee Teri Khalaa…….
If any self professed leader wants to change the world around him or her, then appearing fort nightly on a talk show and saying all the right things is obviously not enough. To make something happen (speacially in the cities) you have got to do the political work at the street level. You nad your team have to be dynamic, work tirelessly one Mohalla at a time. From street corner to street corner, from house to house, shaking hands and embracing people that you dont know. Its a tough and thankless task and requires lot of sacrifice.
Reality, I seriously think one should believe in your “Reality Check” status? Who’s cursing here or you took enuff “Toxic liquor” last night that you have lost your sense?
Self, I have not heard the other two names you mentioned but I have read Modudi(have you?) and most of his writings comes under the definition of Blasphemy. I think you would also have just *heard* about Modudi from your elders and you established an opinion about him *grin*
Modudi and Jawed Ghamidi belongs to Ahsan Eslahi’s school of thought which is often blasphemous. is it not ironic that today Ghamidi is considered Mullah of seculars and Liberals and they like him shared a similar background like Jamat-e-Islami? :-)
As far as Jihad-e-Kashmir, what I see today that liberals and seculars are active more to declare it Haram than anyone else. Kashmir Jehad suffered a great setback in Mush regime which is offcourse NOT a pro Modudi. I wonder did you dare to condemn them or all of your strength is utilized to anyone associated with Islam?
All points are valid and follow a certain principle and Ideology. But this makes little or no sense to those in the GOVT. or are in the queue. They are so morally bank corrupted that they find their act of shame as something to feel proud of.
There are few things very important for Pakistan and Pakistanis that they must keep in their mind and should actively pursuing.
1) MQM is the curse of the land. Its a new face of the Nazis, an organization on the map of Pakistan that must be eliminated. Pakistanis must raise against this organization. Karachi can not see peace as long these Nazis have their rule.
2) Pakistan is always meant for Mulsims and no one can change this status. People in this land , whatever their deeds are, lot better than many nations. Pakistanis know that what is their true identification.
3) Liberals in this countries are not in real sense Liberals. They are bunch of illiterate who have achived nothing in their lives, see their credential and education record. If you have no ability in life to perform anything finely start Islambashing. You will be supported from some secret people with lot of money.
The most easiest way to get the European and American Visa is to start shouting against Muslims and Islam. Our liberals are in fact tout of the west and most of them, if not all, have enjoying large sums from western countries and Christien Associations.
4) Most of the religious scholars in Pakistan have no real wisdom and seriously lack interpretation skills to know Islam in modern times. This is real shame for us that instead of reading the books, which have much more source than a two hour tv discussion. Its sad we have not serious enough to sit down adnd read books to know about true identification.
But we have lot of good scholars and writers, Ghamidi and Mudoodi among them. Read books and know the roots.
“But we have lot of good scholars and writers, Ghamidi and Mudoodi among them. Read books and know the roots.”
I don’t know about Ghamidi, he is new and jury is still out on him but here is what Maududi’s own (ghar kay bhedee) say about him;
http://www.jang-group.com/jang/oct2007-daily/05-10-2007/col1.htm
Obviously Maududi (and after him, his Jamaat Islami) are hypocrites. They say one thing, but do something else to serves their own purpose. That is how Muadudi and Jamaat Islami have fooled the masses so far. Most Maududi supporters, provide quote after quote from Maududi’s books but fail to mention that Maududi did not follow his own interpretations (of Islam/Shariat) when it suited him. Not that other Mullahs are any better.
True Pakistani, if you are a Jamaat Islami supporter then you should know what Jamaat Islami did in Karachi and the rest of the country and even in East Pakistan/Bangladesh. Jamaat has been instrumental in dealing with left on the behest of US for many decades an dthat included violence and murder. Jamaat has supported every dictator since Yahya Khan and vice versa. Jamaat Islami are the reason we have MQM and other parties in retaliation. Certainly in case of Jamaat Islami they are only getting a dose of their own medicine from MQM . So do not pretend that Jamaat Islami is “pak potar” because they are not.
“Self, I have not heard the other two names you mentioned ”
I am not surprised…little knowlege is a bad thing.
“Mufti” Mehmood: father of your favourite deobandi “Maulana” Fazlu Rehman. Yeah that one; abul munafqeen.
Ataullah Shah Bukhari: Raees ul Ahraar, a “shola biyyan” muqarar of his time. People used to listen to him all night without a peep.
More on Jamaat Islami/Maududi by ghar kay bhedee; http://www.jang-group.com/jang/sep2007-daily/28-09-2007/col1.htm
a little bit down in the column.
Little knowledge? are you nuts? Little knowledge is if I had said that I knew him and just had said few things without any background. Just like you and your other fellows often do here and there. I said I don’t know means I had not knowledge about it, a Big difference.
yo have to learn when to use what sentence.
Also, you didn’t reply me thst whether did you condemn your own liberals and secularists who have declared Kashmir Jehad Haram?
Preaching begins from home! Don’t whine about what others have not done. Learn to admit mistakes as it would help you to become a good human.
I am , as my name suggests, True Pakistani. I know that my land has seen enough blood and mainly due to the New Nazis, I mean MQM. I can assure every one if Karachites, who proclaimed to be sons of real Pakistani, must terminate these MQM non sense from their land and make it pure from the sins of Altaf (aka Faschist).
If every Pakistani read the history of Islam and the history of the muslim struggle of India during and after1957, each one of us would then realized how much our fore fathers did for us.
Pakistanis forget the mission they had been given at the time of creation of Pakistan.
The MQM is playing the same role as in British India time some toddy of British did to appease their lords. MQM is doing the same in present time. Make Pakistan a better place without these traitors. Pakistn is great place to live. Pakistani should never allowed to let these Nazis working mercilessly killing innocent people of Pakistan. They can even love to write the name of their leaders and their dirty philosphy on the shattered walls of Kashmir during earthquake in 2005 , for showing the world, that they care for humanity (though they are actually butchers). Their leader Altaf ; the Jackal leader, cowrdly took refuge in UK leaving behind his boys to be killed.
Read 1857 (refering Great War of Independence in India) instead of 1957, in my blog. Pakistan Zindabad. MQM and Musharraf go in a burning hell.
Self” I read Irshad Hasan Haqqani’s column, though I am not really a great fan but he always talk with arguments. The whole article reflects the greatness of rationalization and power of arguments what one can have specially for the leaders. Its the freedom of interpretation which is acceptable in Islam. Not un islamic or fascist role as by MQM.
MQM zindabad!!!!!!
MQM zindabad!!!!!! Syed Mustafa Kamal Rocks and heLL yea Musharaf, and i can see blind people here don’t you guys see the development in last three years, my God who could have done that if Musharaf and MqM would have been not been in Power…
@Ali
A simple reply to your question bro. if MQM and Mushy werent here, these guys would be cursing someone else.
There are some ppl who just cant accept tht things are moving in the right direction, even if it is slow.
@Adnan,
I just luv the way you said that you were working for MQM in the late 80s. god ur contradictory. if I am not mistaken you once said you are late 20s (under 30) which would make you 9-10 in the late 80s. wht the hell were you doing for them at tht age, distributing flags in you classes at school?
Thanks for tht bro, i needed a laugh.
TRUE PAKISTANI you said;
“If every Pakistani read the history of Islam and the history of the muslim struggle of India during and after 1857, each one of us would then realized how much our fore fathers did for us.”
Are you talking about actual history or the twisted / sugar coated one? Can you elaborate on the role of each of these interest groups and personalities in the creation of Pakistan;
1/ Ashraaf-e-UP
2/ Nawabs of Bengal.
3/ Unionists of Punjab.
4/ Ulema-e-Deoband led by Gandhi during the Khilafat Movement.
5/ Ulema-e-Brelvi’s stand.
6/ Majlis-e-Ihrar
7/ British.
ans ofcourse;
8/ Millions who parished.
Before making such broad statements, always take into account that there is more to history than what is taught in our Pakistan Studies Book.
Its right when they say that pak military is the most efficient and successful institution in the country. They sure have been successful in ridding the “awaam” of siyaasi shaoor, creating in the people apathy towards the political process and a sense of helplessness. With the use or rather threat of the gun and lure of “awaami” money - they have lured the corrupt, spineless and selfish so-called political leaders into submission and to fool the poor awaam. The no-good pak army which has lost all the wars it has fought and the ones they are fighting now can only find the courage to overpower and overwhelm the innocent and unarmed awaam of Pakistan. I am ashamed to be even called a pakistani since we dont have the wisdom, will or the power to challenge this gang of thugs - comprising of the army, feudals and bureaucracy. Down with the biggest thug - musharraf and all his “lotas” which includes the mqm!!!
ADNAN & Kashmir
Kashmiri struggle was a popular indiginous street movemnt sparked off against the massive rigging in the state election and the subsequent brutal suppression by Indian armed forces. Both Muslim and Hindu Kashmiri’s joined hands and raised voice for Kasmiri’s in unison. The whole world raised their concerns and there was great pressure on India to change its ways, The Indian Govt was under pressure.
Inconme the Jihaadist fresh from Afghanistan, murderring and maiming village after village of Kashmiri pandits / sikhs and also those Muslims who didnt agree with them. They killed rival leaders with impunity, at the same time excecuted thousands condemned as informers. The Kashmiri struggle lost its support / sympathies, the worst part is that the Jihaadist didnt provide any leadership alternates, and to this day are just bands of marauding fanatics.
Same is the case in Chechnya. A struggle started by a Nationalist Communist Chechen General of the Red Army Dudayev. Who fought and embarrassed the mighty Russian army in Grozny without employing any terrorrist tactics. Got support from International and even local Russian groups.
Step in the Jihaadist, they took over..its the same old story Bombing apartment buildings, taking children hostage and killing them mercilessly. Consequently all the support / sympathies have evaporated and there struggle is also going no where. There was no Mush there, they did it all by themselves.
The moral, “If you want to struggle for any cause then stay away from the present day Jihaadist”
by the way to all the mqm supporters - now that mr. runaway leader of the mohajirs is getting a divorce and going through bitter settlement proceedings - how would you feel if all that private dirty laundry is aired in public like what your jialas did to imran khan. I am no fan of imran khan but please! Now lets see how if mqm jialas would like altaf’s divorce proceedings discussed blow by blow -
i wonder how faiza gabol will be silenced - using the gun or the dhamkis but then again mr. altaf has run away to a country where there is supremacy of law and a common man is protected against the thuggery of mqm goondas.
Bhai jitnee keechar IK per Muslim league or Jamaat ney uchaalee thee uskaa to zarra bhi MQM ney nahein uchalaa, ub woh doost ho gaye. MQM retaliated (not innitiated) and filed a petition. Its emotional workers did some nasty wall chalking which they themselve removed.
Also, there is no comparison with Faiza Gabol scenario, its a break up of marriage. Issue with IK is absence of it.
I said I was active. It doesn’t mean I was in Tanzeem. I never did politics in school but we used to write slogans in school bus like “Jamati thaa”, “Ghafoora Thaa”, things which we learnt from pottymouth MQM elders.
You are reading too much between the lines. Take it easy.
@Badnan sidiqui:
You learned “jamati thaa” “ghafoora thaa” from mqm but where did you learned “pottymouth MQM elders” this and other name calling you have been using..I guess family background”””””
reality check - the issue is not marriage or lack of it - the issue is of privacy and meddling in one’s private life. Its not just emotional mqm jialas - it was mqm high-ups on tv talk shows with pictures of sita white and that girl. anyways - i know what the jaamatis did and what nawaz league did - they all lack integrity and intelligence - alongwith all the politicians of pakistan who dance at the whims at the ISI sleuths and they masters in the west - i am not condoning what IK did - i am just wondering if discussing Altaf’s broken marriage is fair game for tv talk shows???
My problem with IK is if he is ever to become a leader for any significant portion of people then we will have to allow adultery to every youngster. You can’t portray one person as shining example of leadership and then not let others follow his example.
KARACHIITE - I second your thought, however for an ordinary person that argument might hold true, but when you are in public domain and project yourself as a leader, then your private life also in adverdantly becomes public property, thats a sad fact. I think its good for Imran that all this came out much before elections, unlike the last time.
As for the TV shows it depends. If our channels had programmes like ET then may be yes. IK’s personal affair came for discussion on capital talk only after MQM filed a petition in EC and they were asked about it by Hamid Mir, it was obviously a setup and Hamid Mir was a part of it. That left a bad taste in my mouth too.
I personally have serious doubts about Imrans leadership skills based on his performance so far, rather than anything else.
Reality Check. There are factions of mulsims who did a lot. British never been so passionate to the muslims from the onset. You can not expect a perfect role from Nawab’s of India but their contribution is significantly supoorted muslims cause. But being Mulsim Pakistani we must read War of Independence 1857, it was great struggle but our generation in this country never realized it. Perhaps not many aware that Karachi has also played very strong role in this movement during those days. Many muslim soldiers , who later, arrested were executed by folding them in front of mouth of the cannon, in the ground where, Empress Market is standing.
There were mulsims who fought against British had unbeliveable characters. May be like Sahaba akram. They were prepared to sacrifice every thing.
Parties like MQM are playing a game for Jewish and Neocons. And their leadersip is so illiterate they dont even know what on earth they have been doing.
Musharraf is also a similar kind of short sighted muslim leader. And our history is full such Mir Jaffer and Mir Sadiq. At present days we have Mir Altaf and Mir Mushharaf. The only solution for our proposerity is to know our real ROOTS and not like some one who just follows the Band wagon without knowing what is the destination.
Reality Check. There are factions of mulsims in India who did a lot during those days, though some of them have not a perfect players. British never been so passionate to the muslims from the onset. You can not expect a perfect role from Nawab’s of India but their contribution significantly supported muslims cause and they done good charity work.
But being Mulsim Pakistani we must read War of Independence 1857, it was great struggle but our generation in this country never realized it. They have heroes like Altaf or Mustufa Kamal.
Perhaps not many are aware that Karachi had also played very strong role in this movement during 1857. Many muslim soldiers from British army raised against their Bristis officers, who later, arrested were executed by folding them in front of mouth of the cannons, in the ground where, Empress Market is standing presently.
There were mulsims who fought against British had unbeliveable characters. May be like Sahaba akram. They were prepared to sacrifice every thing, family, fortune, titles, properties. many were hanged in front of their families without any trial. Many were sent to Andaman islands on exile.
Parties like MQM are playing a game against mulsim unity and they are working for Jewish and Neocons. And their leadersip is so illiterate they dont even know what on earth they have been doing and what will the consequences. Thats the biggest tragedy. Karachites started to realizing the Game Plan and if there will be fair Elections in Karachi, this filth will never be elected. People really hate them. But due to their Fascist techniques every one here is helpless.
Musharraf is also a similar kind of short sighted creature. And our history is full such Mir Jaffer and Mir Sadiq. At present days we have Mir Altaf and Mir Mushharaf. The only solution for our proposerity is to know our real ROOTS and not like some one who just follows the Band wagon ideas without knowing what is the destination of our nation.
TRUE PAKISTANI, Jamaat Islami are the original fascists. No one in Pakistan had first hand experience of fascism before them. Jamaat islami is stabbing in nation’s back since before partition and your long meaningless rants can’t change this fact.
@True Pakistani
I really enjoyed he bit in Mushys last interview when he said that people like to think they are speaking for the entire country, in your case city.
People in khi still support MQM, they dont vote for MQM bec they are forced to. Stop being so naive, with the level of media you have now adays can you actually think MQM wins bec they make everyone vote on gunpoint or they rig the elections.
Agreed some rigging takes place but for MQM to maintain govt they need public support and they have it. So get tht through your thick skull and stop arguing.
TRUE PAKISTANI, add Islami Jamiat e Tulba to the list of organisations whose role you need to explain. No rants please.
Dear,
Remember the walls of Karachi with slogans “Jo Quaid Ka Ghaddar hey woh Moot ka haqdar hey”.
This is the fact. Remember 12 May, Thats the reason why Karachi can’t freely speak against these Nazis. Think. Use peanut brains.
TRUE PAKISTANI unfortunately the more I get to know the thoughts of people like you the more strength in my belief that I am right. Bhai get a real sense of history first. dont over blow the role of 1857 in the history of Sub -Continent, it was a rebellion by both hindu and muslim soldiers, and thats it. After wards the British made corrections to ensure that an event like this wouldnt happen again and it never did.
There is no use making abstract claims about and neocon and jewish agenda’sbeing promoted by our leaders. SELF is right , MQM is here primarily because Jamaat failed to deliver. There international agenda some how tramples over local priorities. MQM will continue to gain strength because of their bond with the common man and flexible approach in transforming themselves from ethnic to a political group, after all they were just reactionary students, its only in past couple of years that they have matured into politicians and to their credit are making all the right moves along with of course some stupid mistakes. They are learning and adapting fast. If you look around and take a look at all the political parties, you will see regression, tooth phoot and no sense of direction, whereas, its not the case with MQM and that’s the reality.
Asa for Mush being a short sighted creature…Bhai he has done the difficult job of transforming Zia’s army to Pakistan’s army, facing hostile right wing media and enduring foolish actions by our American friends, who made his job ten times more difficult. But he is pushing on, personally when he speaks I get the sense of sincerity and objectivity that I don’t get from any other Pakistani leader and that’s why he will survive and continue…
reality-check, just couple of quick points:
i dont think that mqm leaders were put on the spot by hamid mir and they were not ready for it- i respectfully beg to disagree - if that was the case they would not have been ready and armed with reams of evidence on IK.
To the second point of yours - Imran maybe a good cricket leader - he is not a good leader of common man cuz he is too much into himself- i feel an air of superiority about him. if he needs to succeed in his goals he needs to get some honest and sincere and respected leaders to his party and stop being a one-man show.
Also Bhai reality-check, its obvious that you are an mqm supporter - however, I also think that you are a reasonable person - which in itself is an oxymoron ;) anyway - yes, mqm is a reality and it has done some things better than others - but you must be kidding to say that they matured - I dont think that they have really - they are a one-man show and if you take out Altaf they would not matter much - all the strides that have been made by mqm is thanks to mush and his isi sleuths who got altaf in their pockets for whatever reason.
I would have agreed with you that mqm has evolved into a mature political party if we take altaf out and mqm still remains a force - i very much doubt that it will be the case - so, no matter who mqm claims to represent they are no different from the other parties which are one-man or one-woman show. mqm has no charter - infact i believe that mqm is basically misleading the karachi awaam by giving up on the goals that they came into being for. altaf talks about standing up for the lower middle class but sitting in the government with the looters and the usurpers (army+q-league) it loses credibility. sadly no politician or political party wants to stick to principles…
KARACHIITE I said it was a setup and both hamid mir and ghori were on it and it was in bad taste….may be my wording confused you.
Second point…I never considered IK as good cricket leader……He was never a team guy, always pre-occupied by himself….never there on tough domestic series…always ready to join on glamorous tours…even when injured. Also destroyed carreers of many talented guys based on personal likes and dislikes.
On third point you are exactly right….take out Altaf ….and you may end up with splinter groups…which would be much worse…BTW you dont know the guys they have pretty good jems….thats why they do what they do….and nobody can ,match that. Yes MQM is sitting in government…so whats wrong with that?….they did not made Q -league or brought Mush to power. They are co-existing and doing a good job for the people. They have set the stage for this city to move forward, of course with the help of Mush and why not…all Nawaz wanted was to take Banks and industry away from this city. Now investors are lining up to invest and religous fanatic groups have been sidelined. There are no suicide attacks and no secterian violence and thats no mean achievement.
reality-check, somewhat agree with you on the way IK played cricket - well he was a dictator and an arrogant one at that - guess all dictators are ;)
but at least he took a rag tag bunch of guys and won us a world cup - that sorta washed out most of his misdeeds. those were the good old days of mostly amateurish cricket.
i agree - when there is money and some sincerity you do get to see some results on the ground. like the motorways and such. mqm, has been doing the work since it has been handed the money to do the work - think billions of rupees - which was never available to any government to do developmental work - this money is coming with strings attached and strict accountability from the donors - its not a blank check like it was in the yester years - hence you see the dollars converted into tangible results. we still dont know if there absolutely no corruption involved. with the way the things are kept so tight within mqm echelons - probably we will never know.
all i am saying is that mqm is not a viable party - with no solid agenda - altaf’s claims about standing up to feudals and being on the side of the oppressed lower middle class contradicts mqm’s sitting in the government. but then again who sticks to politics of principles in pakistan or elsewhere for that matter. all i am saying is dont put up a charade of being on the side of the oppressed and anti-establishment(biggest part of which includes army) and anti-usurpers(the biggest of those being the army in pakistan)and anti-feudals(who are in cahoots with the army) when their actions are to the contrary.
*********Altaf’s claims about standing up to feudals and being on the side of the oppressed lower middle class contradicts mqm’s sitting in the government.
How come this MQM sitting in govt contradicts anything. Feudals contro every major political party in Pakistan and JI is not at odds with them. does this means that MQM should never sit in government? On the contrary MQM should never miss the chance to participate, otherwise, people like Jams and Shah will take this city for a ride and sell it very cheap.
As for development funds being made availaible, surely the credit goes to Mush for that, after 50 years of just taking, he has given back something to this city. True their is strick accountability, but MQM has shown that it has the man power and committed individuals in shape of councillors and Nazims driven by the desire to plan and execute. As for courruption, in a country like ours ther must be some but the its not like filling up the files and poketting every thing. Also, the CDGK is the first to have quarterly audits by independent auditors. Things are changing for the better i dont why the nay sayer want to keep the nation in a depressed state.
Look what we have achieved in Kashmir both Govt and NGO’s have done a great job, all the international orgs are showering their praise, I dont know why do we have to be so skeptic….
Imran, “potty mouth” is a term which is generally used for the person who call names. You might like to check Urban online dictionary.
I am not surprised you are bringing family in middle. This is yet another quality of MQM. Offcourse I wouldn’t blame your family in return because I am sure your parents and other family people are wonderful people and it’s not their fault that we experiencing you today. Maybe due to hectic life schedule, they couldn’t keep an eye on your friends’ circle.
@Badnan Siddiqui,
If something in the western dictionary, does not mean that its right to use. You know what ‘potty mouth’ translates in Urdu. Our culture does not allow us to call somebody ‘potty mouth’ so having this word in urban dictionary does not proof that its used is allowed in our culture. ‘PIG’ is also in the dictionary and in west people do call each other ‘you eat like pig’ so we should start using that in PAKISTAN TOOO??????????
you have been draging all mqm workers in every matter and calling them with names..let me tell you that there are elder ppl and women in mqm who are somebody’s parents, sisters, mothers so if you do that next time you are going to get the same in the return..
Reality_check:
Since the other posting is off limits now, I have to say it here (bit out of context) that yes, I finally read the Hamza Alvi article today.
Interesting.
I have heard that one disadvantage of Khilafat movement was that lots of Muslim families took their kids away from govt. run schools. Cynics believe that Gandhi promoted that kind of behavior. But, I doubt it. Muslims were and are stupid enough by themselves. They don’t need any help from Gandhi.
Also, another famous person during Khilafat movement was Dr. Ansari who led the medical mission to help Turkish army in the Balkans (I believe). His two grandsons are the members of provincial and federal assemblies from UP. Both involved in ghundagardi, almost 80 percent of Indian national assembly members have murder type law suits against them (according to a recent WSJ article).
Anyways…..
Sorry to everyone if this stuff is out of conetxt here.
******How come this MQM sitting in govt contradicts anything. Feudals contro every major political party in Pakistan and JI is not at odds with them. does this means that MQM should never sit in government?******
Reality_Check, well if it doesnt contradict anything then I am not sure what will - you admit that mqm is sitting with the feudals in the government yet its leader misses no opportunity to blast the feudals. In my opinion the military in pakistan is way worst and detrimental to the country than the feudals - infact they are all in cahoots in exploting the country.
As for the developmental work - man! that was inevitible(sp?) no matter which government would have come into power they would have had to work on karachi’s infrastructure otherwise it would have led to some other bad things….and i will again say that most of the plans were chalked out for the development work at the fedral level - like the money coming from the fedral government. Its a fallacy to think that mqm has changed anything for karachi - the fundamentals havent changed - i think that like most things musharraf is calling the shots within mqm - like the appointment of mustafa kamal.
and to your comments about being skeptic - well, what are we talking abou? Pakistan and Pakistanis - we gotta to be skeptic!!! we have been bitten by this chest thumping before - but this talk of transforming karachi into a dubai is another fantasy - you have to lay a strong foundation to erect a tall skyscraper - you cant build a tall building like the northern bypass just cuz you are too eager to take credit. we have to be vigilant cuz we have been duped before and sure that we are now and will be in the future - so asking questions and commenting is our right - and people who are in power should learn to take positive criticism and not just ignore it like they did with the election or rather imposition of musharraf as president.
******How come this MQM sitting in govt contradicts anything. Feudals contro every major political party in Pakistan and JI is not at odds with them. does this means that MQM should never sit in government?******
Reality_Check, well if it doesnt contradict anything then I am not sure what will - you admit that mqm is sitting with the feudals in the government yet its leader misses no opportunity to blast the feudals. In my opinion the military in pakistan is way worst and detrimental to the country than the feudals - infact they are all in cahoots in exploting the country.
As for the developmental work - man! that was inevitible(sp?) no matter which government would have come into power they would have had to work on karachi’s infrastructure otherwise it would have led to some other bad things….and i will again say that most of the plans were chalked out for the development work at the fedral level - like the money coming from the fedral government. Its a fallacy to think that mqm has changed anything for karachi - the fundamentals havent changed - i think that like most things musharraf is calling the shots within mqm - like the appointment of mustafa kamal.
and to your comments about being skeptic - well, what are we talking abou? Pakistan and Pakistanis - we gotta to be skeptic!!! we have been bitten by this chest thumping before - but this talk of transforming karachi into a dubai is another fantasy - you have to lay a strong foundation to erect a tall skyscraper - you cant build a tall building like the northern bypass just cuz you are too eager to take credit. we have to be vigilant cuz we have been duped before and sure that we are now and will be in the future - so asking questions and commenting is our right - and people who are in power should learn to take positive criticism and not just ignore it like they did with the election or rather imposition of musharraf as president.
Write on BALMA, the key is knowing your history i.e seeing it from different perspectives and then forming your opinions otherwise follow the blind and fall into a ditch, thats what has happened to Muslims.
KARACHIITE this is what happens in democracy, you have to sit and talk with people with totally different view points. In Europe liberals will form a minority govt with conservatives if the mandate is split. This doesnt mean that they support each others ideals, its just a compromise of necessity. Feudals will continue to carry weight in Pakistan politics for considerable time in future. I have said it earlier, that there is a strong middle class emerging from Punjab, people like Mushahid Hussain, Sheikh Rasheed, Durrani and others (thanks to Musharraf) have a greater say in policy making than any feudal. BTW PPP has a major anti Feudal Agenda look at their web site, however, their leadership is all feudal, thats hypocracy to me. This doesnt mean that MQM should not form govt with PPP either.
Again for development work, what you are trying to do is avoid giving any due credit to a certain party. Thats all I can make of your argument.
Sure positive criticsm is always welcome, but perpetual negativity can also trigger a state of despair and dooom, which is un-called for. It is my personal opinion that this nation has passed its low, and things will turn for the better.
* follow the blind and fall into a ditch, thats what has happened to Muslims.
*** Mulla Omar is only half-blind.
reality-check, point well taken about democracies having coalition of disparate parties. But the situation is a little different here. I am not sure if altaf furthering his cause celebre now to fight feudalism by sitting in this government.
anyway - we can agree to disagree.
sh. rashid, mushahid, durrani are no more than poodles in the military establishment - furthering their own cause. these people have no principles that they follow and are yes-men to whoever would give them a chance to be on the talk shows - i give credit to mushahid that he had to endure house arrest to find the savior in musharraf - sh. rashid and durrani didnt have to bother the military establishment to coax or convince them - i guess they were the ones to convince the isi to let them be on their side ;)
Friend, those are not the role models for middle class you should have listed here…..they are demagogues at best.
but you are right for giving musharraf credit for keeping their appearances on tv talk shows going.
as for development work - yes - there is tangible work going on - but i guess i am not able to make my point clear - my point is that you are giving too much credit to a particular party for it. give credit to imf/world bank/asian dev. bank/usa/gb/japan/saudi arabia/etc. and the tightening of the screws by these entities in terms of accountability of funds….and then trying to thump the chests that we are getting audited - well, its not unusual but rather very routine to have an organization’s (governmental or otherwise) to have their books audited - infact its more important that public organizations have their books audited on a regular basis. Its their duty!!! this is the problem with pakistan - stating the obvious and then taking credit for it too :)
again - i think its not all doom and gloom - all i am saying that whatever msuharraf and his gang of lotas are saying we have to take it with a bag of salt. as i said - you have to lay solid foundation to build a skyscraper - you can’t just one fine morning wake up and decide that karachi will be turned into dubai - that takes a lot of strategic planning, creativity, hard work and support structure which is STILL completely lacking in pakistan - what do you expect from an army guy. anyway - i am not a pessimist - you might think i am - but i always have a positive outlook - and its part of it that i point out the mistakes and shortcomings i see currently - we deserve better and are always sold short by our leaders - this has made us not a nation which strives for excellence but rather a nation which stives for mediocrity and on top of it boasts about it too and take pride in it.
i dont think that our schools/colleges/universities are producing the brains which would take us on the path to excellence…..with the current set up we will always be mediocre and will be good at that too.
We have to question and challenge the present to guarantee a better future. sitting on our behind and feeling proud of something that should have been done 20-25 years ago is not very inspiring.
we have potential but always led astray by the demagogues - in the military garb, or behind a beard, or by people in pajeros, or in kurta pajamas,
Bhai KARACHIITE I met a lady from Karachi University Ph.d in Micro Biology or something…. who was doing a two Year Post doctoral programme in New York. The first year was financed by Higher Education Commission and the second year by a US Foundation. She has since gone back, and working on a commercial project based on her studies being funded by govt of Pakistan. Such things were un-heard of in the recent past. The good thing is that its not a one off case. So bhai a lot is happenning but only the bad gets projected.
Also, neither Sheikh Rasheed nor Mushahid Hussain are lota’s, they were in fact deserted by their leadership. Mushahid remained in jail while Nawaz Bhai flew away and left him there for good. They are one of those who are talking sense in this political mayhem.
Is it Mushahid Hussain who peed in the court or was it some other crook of Navaz NoSharif govt who bestowed that honor on a Pakistani court?
Where is that crook who imported BMWs during the 24 window when duties were dropped on luxury cars?
Where are all those jokers?
No he was the NAB / BMW guy…….Saif-ur-Rehman
I think Saif-ur-Rehman was forced to return a big chunk of money and then dis-appeared into nothingness.
And didn’t SAif-ur-Rahman’s wife escape to India jahan say voh aansoo bhari kahaniyaa’n likhtee thee, keh meray shauhar ko choRRo…ab kee barr voh beimaani nahi’n karay gaa.????? or someting like that.
I dont remember about his wife,but Saif Sahib was like no other Pakistan politician, I quote from Talat Hussains article from Frontline;
“Former senator Saif-ur Rehman, chief of the Sharif government’s Accountability Bureau, forerunner of the present National Accountability Bureau, did even better: he offered an unsolicited apology to Asif Ali Zardari and Benazir Bhutto for running motivated campaigns against them. (Raja Pervez claims that Mr Rehman went to the extreme of kneeling before Mr Zardari, touching his feet, and apologising to him in public).”
Below link is also very revealing;
http://cryptome.sabotage.org/pkib-bhutto.htm
Yeah, I remember some stupidity on Navaz sharif’s part got Budnazir and her handsome husband off the hook on technical matter.
Does not mean that Budoo and Zaroo are not chores.
In fact, my long held belief is that none of these guys are ever sincere. They don’t really want to try the corrupt in courts…because tomorrow khood bhee phans saktay hai’n….they just dilly dally to get some political benefits. Otherwise, if Navaz was sincere, there were thousand ways of netting Budoo and Zaro for corruption. But why bother, because tomorrow someone could put Navaz in trouble1
So it is the case of: You scratch my back, I will scratch yours.
lahole-va-laa-quvatah-illah-billah: may the shaitan Budnazar stay away from Pakistan. Ameen, summa (thumma for fanatics) ameen.
Agreed - Nobody wants to set a precednce by convicting their rival. As long as its black mail its ok.
reality_check bhai, you give one example and take it as the norm - i know few people who in the 70s and 80s did their phDs in various fields and did return and work for the government - so this is not something thats initiated by this government.
also - what you are sayin is consistent with what i was saying earlier - that we take pride and feel good about things which should have been done normally and should not even be mentioned - we stive for mediocrity instead of striving for excellence - hence we are feeling good that one phd person returned to pakistan - you dont know the circumstances why the person returned - there could be a lot of factors.
as to your point of sh. rashid and mushahid not being lotas - i dont agree with your logic - if they are not lotas then i dont know what lotas are - i am glad that you didnt say that sher gaggan and that doodhwala wasi zafar are talking sense too ;)