Where Are Karachi’s Students?
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I’ve been watching with interest and fascination the news coming out of our sister city Metroblogs in Lahore and Islamabad. Moving images of students taking peacefully to the streets of their campuses and registering their disapproval of the so-called ‘emergency’ imposed by General Musharraf have made be both proud as well as inspired. Proud because it made be glad that if not me, at least my fellow citizens some where in this country have shown the courage that I truly lack, that they have been willing to put their lives and securities at a certain degree of risk to make them selves heard. And inspired because it made me hopeful that if they can shed the culture of cynicism and indifference that has become the hallmark of Pakistani civil society, perhaps so can others.
The most reassuring thing about these protests by students in Punjab is how they’ve been structured for the cause of a principle, above the petty politics of personality and party, above any ethnic, religious or political alliances, for the just cause of supremacy of law and order. But along with this pride and inspiration, has been the uncomfortable realization about our own inaction. Why are Karachi’s students still silent? Does their silence mean they endorse what is happening? Or are they just too apathetic to bother?
Not being enrolled in an educational institution at the time of writing, I wouldn’t have any ground opinions to share. But from what I know through recent experience and from the views shared by friends and family who are students themselves, I don’t think it would be an entirely fair assumption to make to equate the absence of visible dissent with outright approval. In the private dental college I was enrolled in earlier in the year at least, most of the students seemed very opinionated though somewhat curiously, reluctant to express their opinions publicly. Patent support for any one particular party especially was extremely uncommon.
And that would not be a one-off thing. A large majority of students in private universities, in my approximation at least, like the students in Punjab demonstrating this week, are apolitical, progressive minded people. I have formed this judgment based on the reactions they churn up whenever there has been unrest and violence in the city. The last ones to indulge in cat-and-mouse blame games, this group express foremost, their desire to see a peaceful, lawful city above everything else. The unanimity of their opinions on this has often been my sole hope in this country’s future.
Of course this situation is vastly different in state run universities, where student politics has historically been a very impassioned, zealous activity often even boiling over to be dangerous and violent. One can see how the absence of any student protests in Karachi may be due to this very nature and fabric of student politics in government universities. In the larger ones, including Karachi University, NED and Dow University of Health Sciences, the political scene is dominated by the student wings of MQM and JI. MQM being government coalition partners, the inaction on part of the dominant All Pakistan Mohajir Students’ Organization is completely expected, but that of the Jamat-e-Islami student wing is curiously odd. In the absence of these big wigs taking any visible stance, the remaining non-political group in state universities has failed to galvanize their own frustrations into anything productive.
And one can even understand why this may be so. Student politics in universities is such an ugly entity, this group of non-political students often go to great lengths to dissociate themselves from any organized activity along such lines. Who would dare to take out a protest rally, be it a peaceful one, without any party flags or leader posters, opposing on principle an illegal, extra-constitutional measure taken by the Chief of Army Staff? Would one not dread the wrath of a certain sector in-charge before even the thought of any anti-establishment protest on campus came to one’s mind?
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That is why we must appreciate the courage of our students in Punjab even more, what they’re doing is not without risk, and it takes great nerve to take a stance like this when not many around us have neither the courage nor the conviction to do the same. One hopes the example they have set will inspire Karachi’s students to come out of their hibernation and make them selves heard. I can understand if students in government universities are being silent, their fears of their own security are not unfounded, but the private educational sector has no such excuse.
Last week when about 50 odd members of the civil society had gathered at The Second Floor for a discussion on how to “reclaim” this city, one of the things we agreed on doing, as part of our own small effort towards this reclamation process, was to not give up, to be less cynical, to not just sit and watch in indifference or blame others but to be heard and to make others hear as well, to do something, however small, at our own personal level. Even something as small as sporting a symbolic black arm band, we agreed, could go a long way in this process.
Imagine your self walking into university tomorrow wearing this black arm band as symbol of your passive defiance and resistance. Your friends will ask you what it is for, and you’ll be surprised to hear how many of them share your views. Then all of these like minded students in one campus would be seen wearing this badge. When they’d leave their own campus premises, the word will spread around, and students in other universities will catch up. Before we know it, we may well have a swarm of black arm bands all across the city. And while black bands on our arms may not by them self bring democracy to this county, but it will let the powers to be know, that what they’re doing is not acceptable to the young people of this country. And that is the least Karachi’s students can do, make themselves heard.
Are you a student living in Karachi? Share your thoughts with Karachi Metroblog team on what the sentiment in your university or college is like. What do you think students should do?
Good piece of writing, but who has the time to read all those lengthy article of urs. i read the first two paras and the last one.
Now onto the topic, karachi students r also playing their role. there was a new about something like that in today’s newspaper.
Good piece of writing, but who has the time to read all those lengthy article of urs. i read the first two paras and the last one.
Now onto the topic, karachi students r also playing their role. there was a new about something like that in today’s newspaper.
A very comprehensive analysis of the situation. We hope the right people read this and get the much required inspiration to stand for truth.
Let each person decide on his/her own.
However with every new thread being posted by KMB authors, it seems there is a pre-decided and pre-discussed agenda between KMB authors to malign Musharraf and degrade his efforts to STOP corruption, islamic extremism and illeteracy in Pakistan.
I think it’sa SHAME that KMB is now being used as a platform to target Pakistan’s ONLY hope of coming out of the darkness of the 14th Century.
…. or maybe you guys also want us all to go back to living in CAVES.
As for the topic of (this) thread, i was a student of a state university here not so long ago …and yes there were violent and non-violent protests by students in this university …and yes, ALL these protests were by student body of ONE particular fanatic religious party …. and yes, most of these protestors were from a particular region of Punjab, namely Raiwind which many regard as the “garh” (or den) of fanaticism, tableegh and whatever name they use to draw MIS-GUIDED young people towards VIOLENCE, HATRED & IGNORANCE.
why are citizens of karachi not on the street?
here are couple of good reasons:
from amnesty intl reports during the days of bb and ns. note if you things are bad today, multiply them by 10x to get an idea of what life was like in the 90’s.
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGASA330011996?open&of=ENG-384
“…The organization has received reports of hundreds of cases of unlawful detention, torture, deaths in custody, extrajudicial executions and “disappearances”, mainly in Karachi…According to official figures, some 1,770 people were killed in 1995 in Karachi alone, Pakistani media speak of over 1,990 killings (around 700 in 1994). The victims include apolitical residents of Karachi, including women and children, law enforcement personnel and members of political parties…”
http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/aireport/ar99/asa33.htm
…and fighting between different ethnic and religious groups in Karachi, led to more than 600 deaths. The government continued to resort to mass arbitrary arrests and detention, usually of short duration…”
essentially, politicians like bb and nawaz sharif are responsible for the deaths of 1000s of karachites. so maybe karachites, unlike residents of other cities are smart enough to see through the haze of media b.s. about politicians being the saviour of pakistan. in fact politicians, as was the case on may 12, had turned karachi into a bloody battleground. it appears to me that this website by not providing alternate viewpoint is seems to support the return of bad old 90’s. if karachites allow politicians to rule unchecked, we wont have anyone else to blame if 1000s innocent karachites get killed again.
Ah! : )
i see you added pictures to your “Bash Musharraf Campaign” on KMB.
But isn’t it kind of inappropriate to present the protestors as STUDENTS where as we can clearly see LAWYERS standing (behind) the “students”, directing the drama from the back.
This is really sad and pathetic of you KMB authors.
I am glad you have put up this piece but my comment concerns the pictures you have put in. I think that care should be taken to blurt out the faces of the protestants as it puts them in danger. Apparently, some students have been arrested based on pictures taken by people who were careless enough not to hide the faces of the participants. One may say that the protestants could have covered their faces themselves had they wanted to be safe but I think it is in everybody’s interest that the least people get arrested and that those who participate in these protests go on protesting. BTW, I am not the only saying this. The Neem revolution blog has been reporting on and coordinating the student protests and here is what they have to say.”PLEASE BLUR ALL PICTURES BEFORE YOU SPREAD THEM! “. Here is the link to their web site: http://pakistanmartiallaw.blogspot.com/2007/11/media-activities-and-new-developments.html
This is KMB for Karachi. Enough of protests placards for Karachi, we dont want to protest nothing.
Karachi wants to remain as economic hub, where 80% of the people work their ass out to lead a respectable life..no time for such rubbish.
All said and done, Karachi has been much better off during Musharaff than in the times of BB and NS..so wtf r u guys moanin about. Take your protests to Jhang chakwal lawhore rawalpaindu and where ever – Lay off from Karachi!!
” ake your protests to Jhang chakwal lawhore rawalpaindu and where ever ”
see…… i always said we Karachiites are aik number ke _____ selfish people. It suits ARMY to keep MQM in power for security sake.
Let another Naseerullah BABAR come and ARMY will show you its stick you guys deserve dearly. Please Karachiiites dont complain about “mehrumies” then.
Karachi my a**
WE, THE YOUNG (OF KARACHI) ….. REFUSE!
We REFUSE to bring CORRUPTION into Pakistan in the form of politics based on ethnic hatred (PUNJABI VS URDU VS SINDHI VS WHATEVER).
We REFUSE to bring FANATICISM into Pakistan in the form of religious extremism.
AND we REFUSE to bring the IGNORANCE of the rural areas into our cities, in the form of Tableegh, preaching of jihad, ijtima etc.
I don’t think Musharraf is a saint – But when it come to choosing between the lesser of evil and greater of the good, i stand by Musharraf – to take MY COUNTRY into the 21st Century. I give 100% credit to Musharraf for taking the CITIES of Pakistan away from the fundamentalists and fanatics and giving it back to the people. The fanatics can now see his intentions as a clear and present danger to their sick extremist agendas, and are now trying to mobilize the judiciary, mis-guided young people, even busnessmen to overthrow Musharraf.
NOTE: You fundamentalists and conservatives can ruin and misguide illeterate people in the villages and rural areas – BUT NEVER THE CITIES. Fortunately for the future of Pakistan, you conservatives have lost the cities of Pakistan to more forward thinking, progressive and liberal citizens.
Its a shame Imran that you have jumped up to the conclusion you have without sufficient (indeed any) proof. I can assure you that KMB authors don’t share each others political ideologies, and that we have pro-emergency authors in our list and we’ve agreed to disagree (civilly) without needing to call each others’ views “pathetic” like you have.
You say that each person should be let left to decide on his or her own, but would you care to follow your own advice? You don’t seem to be doing that by calling anti-emergency protesters “misguided” youth. Yes, perhaps there is a lawyer standing in one of these photos, but have you bothered to check out the dozens of other photos and videos posted all over the Pakistani blogosphere (and the international media, go check CNN videos) that clearly show how these protests were organised by and participated in my large numbers of students (note not lawyers), from LUMS, from Punjub University, from Quaid-e-Azam university? I suppose it is convenient for you to ignore that. Also, do you notice, how these students don’t seem affiliated with any particular party or religious group? They have stood up for a cause, more than against one man, as you think it is.
Moreover, your sweeping generalisation about how one group of people have been responsible for all the evils pertaining students politics is Karachi is quite an inaccurate conclusion, that is belied by events in the recent past in which several parties’ students wings have proven to be equally culpable. My attempt was to condemn this nature of petty politics, the politics of violence and guns and goons, and instead encourage something meaningful, something peaceful, something that encourages issue (rather than personality) based politics that helps us better understand the concept of good governance. And on at least my post, refrain from using the bold tags and typing in all caps, they give the impression that you’re shouting at others. They’ll be edited out if you use them again. Also do not try not to blur the line between what’s off topic and what it is not, and refrain from personally abusing me or the other commentators, or I will use the junk button that I have refrained from using for my last few posts.
King Faisal,
What you’re pointing out is an undeniable reality. Karachi has sadly always been vulnerable to violence. That is why I suggested something like black arm bands rather then protest rallies, passive defiance as its called.
Blue and Gray,
That is a valid point. But I don’t have an image editing software on the computer I’m using so I can’t blur these images my self. I’ll have to either remove the photos altogether, or find one with already blurred images. I’ll replace the images with more appropriate ones as soon as I find them, thank you for pointing that out.
K-Man,
I’m strongly against any protest that disrupts normal every day activities (have written before about my anti-strike stance for that reason). But complete indifference on the lines of “Karachi is better now than it was in BB/NS times” and because we’re leaving comfortable lives our selves, will get this country no where in terms of its quest for democracy.
And finally far Star, I appreciate your compliments, but a 1000 odd word post takes at best about 3 or 4 minutes to read, I’m sorry if you cannot spare that much time, but this was an analysis of the situation, and required a more comprehensive discussion.
IT S MOST UNFURTUNATE THAT the karachi metroblog site IS BEING USED BY A SELECT IRRESPONSIBLE AUTHORS … TO SPILL THE SHIT HAPPENING IN LAHORE, RAWALPINDI, RAIWIND ETC …INTO KARACHI.
THE “people” of karachi WOULD HAVE PROTESTED (IF THEY WANTED TO) … BUT SEEING THAT THERE ARE NO PROTESTS IN KARACHI …. your KMB SITE IS OVERTLY TRYING TO INCITE AND EXCITE THE PEOPLE OF KARACHI INTO THE SAME IGNORANCE AND SHIT HAPPENING ELSEWHERE ……… SHAME ON YOU KMB AUTHORS.
” ake your protests to Jhang chakwal lawhore rawalpaindu and where ever ”
see…… i always said we Karachiites are aik number ke _____ selfish people. It suits ARMY to keep MQM in power for security sake.
Let another Naseerullah BABAR come and ARMY will show you its stick you guys deserve dearly. Please Karachiiites dont complain about “mehrumies” then.
Karachi my a**
Well go on Ms. Zainab!
Go ahead and mobilize Karachi into a RURAL shit-hole, where women maybe FORCED to wear hijab, men might be flogged if they dont go to the mosques and
I’m sure you’ll have a field day shut inside your home, unless ofcourse if you have a MEHRAM to accompany you. WHATEVER!!! :(
If we fail to UNDERSTAND what Musharraf is trying to achieve (ie. TAKE PAKISTAN OUT OF THE SHIT HOLE OF FUNDAMENTALISM) … then yes…by all means join the PROTESTORS!
Dear Ms. Zainab,
YOUR “Where Are Karachi’s Students?” is getting more PATHETIC by the minute!
If you are through with blurring and changing your (LAWYERS, not students protesting) pictures, to suit your own fantasies and desires to see similar protests in KARACHI ….. well sorry sis, it does not change ANYTHING!
NOW … you have posted pics from LAHORE onto the “KARACHI” METROBLOG SITE to fulfil your obsession with enticing and exciting THE PEOPLE OF KARACHI to start making protests.
TRULY PATHETIC AND (NOT) IN LINE WITH A “KARACHI” METROBLOG RELEVANT NEWS.
SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!
@Far Star, I just needed a headline for this post and could imagine what was inside.
@Zainub, why do you want students to come out on streets for political purposes? This is not a war on principles and this LUMS protest is just like a T2Fevent where selected people gather to have their own fun.
This KMB is simply anti-mush. These authors have not seen real life and just believe in media. [moderated: off topic and personally attacking fellow commetator]
Imran,
Don’t test my patience, and force me to moderate comments. You have made your point about how you view Musharraf as the savior of Pakistan, and you have the complete right to hold that opinion, you do not however, have a right to hijack my thread by posting that same thing ten times over. We have already heard what you’ve got to say on this front. I changed the pictures because of a valid request made by a fellow commentator, not to prove anything to you! I have better things to do. And for the last time, this thread is meant to discuss the reasons why Karachi’s students have not shown the same kind of responses as have their counterparts in Lahore, and Islamabad. This is perfectly relevant to Karachi. If you have any relevant views to share on this front, be my guest, but any more comments from you re-iterating already expressed points will be junked without notice as a waste of cyber-space.
Zainab,
You know, THIS post of yours really and truly shows the ENTIRE AGENDA emanating from PUNJABISTAN …
…. first the whole drama by Chief Justice of Pakistan aka punjab guy (aimed at overthrowing Musharraf)
…. then, the Chief Justice of PAkistan OPENLY patronising Mr. Nawaz Sharif and TRYING to legitimize Sharif’s return.
… next Nawaz is thrown out of Pakistan. ie Mr. Chief Justice FAILS.
… then Mr. Chief JUSTICE tries to mobilize the entire Lawyers community (otherwise known as crooks & lotas throught PAkistan), to overthrow Musharraf
… AND NOW we have STUDENT PROTESTS (FROM PUNJAB) to overthrow Musharraf … surprise surprise!!! Anyone surprised?
And to see you Zainab to GIVE IN TO THESE BIASED CROOKS is truly sad and pathetic.
I don’t know whether Musharraf will stay or not but i will say DOWN WITH PUNJABISTAN and LONG LIVE PAKISTAN.
Karachiites REFUSE to give in to sick designs of Punja to maintain their dominance over the whole country. PAKISTAN IS FOR ALL PROVINCES, NOT JUST ONE PROVINCE.
HUm karachi kay students exam ki tayari kareen ya phir fazoll protest kareen
Zainab: “Imran, …points will be junked without notice …”.
DONT bother Ms. Zainab! I’m through with your PATHETIC post and attempt to encite dissent in KARACHI, for a misguided cause.
NB: Why don’t you shift your fixed assests to Lahore? Just a thought!
PEACE!
Karachi’s students are probably busy studying and attending classes! Students should always stay away from politics, protests etc.
By the way, Zainab, MB and everyone who’s cursing Musharraf – if you hate Musharraf so much and want the emergency lifted, who do you want to replace him? who do you want to hand this country over to? Would you all please clarify? I hope you have thought about it and haven’t completely ignored what choices you have available if Musharraf goes. Can you imagine the state of this country if Musharraf leaves or God forbid something happens to him? There will be chaos and the country will again be a fish market of corrupt politicians minting tax payers money from left, right and center!
@Zainub:
I share your anguish at the lack of protest in Karachi over what is currently happening in Pakistan.
However, do try to understand the bitterness of Karachiites, especially the urdu speaking citizens, over the incessant short end of the stick that this community has received in Pakistan, mostly at the hands of today’s champions of freedom and democracy. Starting with Ayub Khan, every succesive administration has taken it out on Karachiites; so, perhaps, they can be forgiven for the indifference they are showing today.
It is also true that during Musharraf’s reign, Karachi has at least been treated with some semblance of respect that it deserves. For all others, the city and its people were never better than a whore, who was fit only to be reviled and ravaged, while the fruits of her labor were focibly pocekted by the pimps alone.
Of course, all this is no justification for the tyranny being unleashed today on the entire country today. Thanks to the politics of MQM, urdu speakers have been reduced to just another ethnic culture in Pakistan, fast on the road to becoming just as ruthless, unjust, and unprincipled as anyone else against whom they have loads of grievances.
It saddens and shames me.
@Zainub:
I share your anguish at the lack of protest in Karachi over what is currently happening in Pakistan.
However, do try to understand the bitterness of Karachiites, especially the urdu speaking citizens, over the incessant short end of the stick that this community has received in Pakistan, mostly at the hands of today’s champions of freedom and democracy. Starting with Ayub Khan, every succesive administration has taken it out on Karachiites; so, perhaps, they can be forgiven for the indifference they are showing today.
It is also true that during Musharraf’s reign, Karachi has at least been treated with some semblance of respect that it deserves. For all others, the city and its people were never better than a whore, who was fit only to be reviled and ravaged, while the fruits of her labor were focibly pocekted by the pimps alone.
Of course, all this is no justification for the tyranny being unleashed on the entire country today. Thanks to the politics of MQM, urdu speakers have been reduced to just another ethnic culture in Pakistan, fast on the road to becoming just as ruthless, unjust, and unprincipled as anyone else against whom they have loads of grievances.
It saddens and shames me.
@Zainub:
I share your anguish at the lack of protest in Karachi over what is currently happening in Pakistan.
However, do try to understand the bitterness of Karachiites, especially the urdu speaking citizens, over the incessant short end of the stick that this community has received in Pakistan, mostly at the hands of today’s champions of freedom and democracy. Starting with Ayub Khan, every succesive administration has taken it out on Karachiites; so, perhaps, they can be forgiven for the indifference they are showing today.
It is also true that during Musharraf’s reign, Karachi has at least been treated with some semblance of respect that it deserves. For all others, the city and its people were never better than a whore, who was fit only to be reviled and ravaged, while the fruits of her labor were focibly pocekted by the pimps alone.
Of course, all this is no justification for their turning a blind eye to the tyranny being unleashed on the entire nation today. Thanks to the politics of MQM, urdu speakers have been reduced to just another ethnic culture in Pakistan, fast on the road to becoming just as ruthless, unjust, and unprincipled (if not worst) as anyone else against whom they have loads of grievances.
It saddens and shames me.
Karachi’s students fear MQM. PERIOD.
rest support MQM and hence MUSH.
Good for Karachi’s students as they are not becoming clowns to make an aritficial opposition leader called Benazir Bhutto….
I wish some how, all the politicians BB, Altaf, Chaudreez, Fazlu, Qazi, Musharraf and all other corrupt Generals and politicians die all at once ASAP.
Mr. Kenobi:
“why do you want students to come out on streets for political purposes? This is not a war on principles and this LUMS protest is just like a T2Fevent where selected people gather to have their own fun”.
If upholding the Constitution, and struggling for an independent judiciary, is not based on “principles” then I don’t know what is.
The MQM first tried alliance with BB, then with NS, getting the urdu speaking citizens of Karachi shafted on both occasions. One would have hoped that they had learnt their lesson with the politics of unholy alliances. Apparently not.
As you treat the rest of the nation today, so shall they treat you tommorrow, perhaps worst (as is the tradition in the land of the pure).
Think about it.
Sister Zainub,
Don’t let others ruin your day. We are a nation with endless ‘emotions’. We literally worship our ‘leaders’.
All I would say is to make dua,
O Allah, let us see things how they are in reality and don’t let us go astray, Ameen
@Imran
I totally support your views but stop getting excited over it.
People in khi know tht Mushy is good for the country. We are more level headed people. No need to get excited over nothing.
@Imran,
Don’t act like your represent the whole karachi, like Altaf.
and stop your poisnous attitude of calling LUMS and protest in Punjab as Panjabistan.
This is the poison that Altaf, BB and others like to spread, just to divide Pakistanis
@ xyz,
None of the Musharraf bashers (read ignorant people) would have answers to your questions. I still think Musharraf is the best bet that we have for now. None of the politicians (including but not limited to BB, Nawaz, Chaudray’s, Malik’s, Laghari’s, etc) are sincere with Pakistan.
Zainub,
Karachiites are responsible for their sufferings as they never take part in National politics. I never come to terms with this attitude. Then they wonder why people don’t care about them? Denial is not a river in Egypt, it’s inside us.
PS. In case someone wondering; I’m a Urdu speaking Karachiite.
The only reason Musharaf is not worried about the current agitation is due to the fact that Karachi he has Karachiates on his side. In last four governments of BB and Nawaz, Karachi and urdu speakings played a key role in over througing of the governements. Mush is far better than BB and Nawaz. BB only concentrated on her own wealth and Nawaz only developed northern Punjab. So Karachiates has no reason to come on to roads.
The only reason Musharaf is not worried about the current agitation is due to the fact that Karachi he has Karachiates on his side. In last four governments of BB and Nawaz, Karachi and urdu speakings played a key role in over througing of the governements. Mush is far better than BB and Nawaz. BB only concentrated on her own wealth and Nawaz only developed northern Punjab. Only This government has done efforts to adress the problems of the city. So Karachiates has no reason to come on to roads.
The only reason Musharaf is not worried about the current agitation is due to the fact that Karachi he has Karachiates on his side. In last four governments of BB and Nawaz, Karachi and urdu speakings played a key role in over througing of the governements. Mush is far better than BB and Nawaz. BB only concentrated on her own wealth and Nawaz only developed northern Punjab. Only This government has done efforts to adress the problems of the city. So Karachiates has no reason to come on to roads.
The only reason Musharaf is not worried about the current agitation is due to the fact that Karachi he has Karachiates on his side. In last four governments of BB and Nawaz, Karachi and urdu speakings played a key role in over througing of the governements. Mush is far better than BB and Nawaz. BB only concentrated on her own wealth and Nawaz only developed northern Punjab. Only This government has done efforts to adress the problems of the city. So Karachiates has no reason to come on to roads.
The only reason Musharaf is not worried about the current agitation is due to the fact that Karachi he has Karachiates on his side. In last four governments of BB and Nawaz, Karachi and urdu speakings played a key role in over througing of the governements. Mush is far better than BB and Nawaz. BB only concentrated on her own wealth and Nawaz only developed northern Punjab. Only This government has done efforts to adress the problems of the city. So Karachiates has no reason to come on to roads.
The only reason Musharaf is not worried about the current agitation is due to the fact that Karachi he has Karachiates on his side. In last four governments of BB and Nawaz, Karachi and urdu speakings played a key role in over througing of the governements. Mush is far better than BB and Nawaz. BB only concentrated on her own wealth and Nawaz only developed northern Punjab. Only This government has done efforts to adress the problems of the city. So Karachiates has no reason to come on to roads.
this is all pubjabi ghardi. Saley parey likhey jahil hai yeh lums punjabi.
Geo Musharraf
The only reason Musharaf is not worried about the current agitation is due to the fact that Karachi he has Karachiates on his side. In last four governments of BB and Nawaz, Karachi and urdu speakings played a key role in over througing of the governements. Mush is far better than BB and Nawaz. BB only concentrated on her own wealth and Nawaz only developed northern Punjab. Only This government has done efforts to adress the problems of the city. So Karachiates has no reason to come on to roads.
@ imran…
i agree wid CONCERNED… ur opinions are totally valid but try n mantain some civility.
@zainab
as a student of one of the pvt universities in karachi, i refuse to protest against mushy coz hes the best amongst the worst. he’s da only leader in the last 60 yrs that has given SOME due respect to the karachiites. BB and NS simply sucked this city dry and left it to rot.
Urdu-speaking karachiites in the 90’s were left to rot in jails and as a medical student i still see several of these in the psychiatric clinics of my hospital, being treated for Post-traumatic Sress Disorder.
so plz stop expecting any favours from our side. we are DEFINITLEY not gonna support a campaign for the return of BB or NS or even worse, that champion of religious extremism fazlur rehman.
for the record im not even an urdu-speaking karachiite. just a guy born in karachi, in love wid karachi.
The only reason Musharaf is not worried about the current agitation is due to the fact that Karachi he has Karachiates on his side. In last four governments of BB and Nawaz, Karachi and urdu speakings played a key role in over througing of the governements. Mush is far better than BB and Nawaz. BB only concentrated on her own wealth and Nawaz only developed northern Punjab. Only This government has done efforts to adress the problems of the city. So Karachiates has no reason to come on to roads.
@Neena:
“Karachiites are responsible for their sufferings as they never take part in National politics. I never come to terms with this attitude”.
I know it is not considered proper to ask a woman her age. Nevertheless Neena, how old are you?
Karachi and its people have been standing up to dictators since the time of Ayub Khan. This continued to be the case until they were more or less disenfranchised in national politics during Bhutto and Zia’s periods. What happened in Karachi during BB and NS regimes at least you must know of, if not about the ghunda gardi unleashed by Gauhar Ayub in the 60’s (perhaps you were not around or too young then).
It is true that the answer of ghunda gardi of the past is not the ghunda gardi of MQM. But please spare all the people of Karachi. Not all urdu speakers are MQM walas.
NEENA For the first time in history the Karachiites have made a sensible choice i.e to stay away from this confused protest mongering.
We have faced the brunt of the wrath of all the military and civilian dictators this country has thrown at them. The teenagers of this city have endured unspeakable torture inflicted by special security forces like FSF and FIT, whose sole purpose was to inflict torture. You know how many times (from Ayub to Bhutto to Zia-ul-Haque and BB) police has opened fire on public demonstrations in Karachi & also Hyderabad. Kya jo mar gaye woh faaltoo thay? And now for whom they should come out and lay down their precious lives? For the most corrupt institution of this country or the most corrupt politician?
BTW whenever there is National crises like flooding or earthquake, which city responds to the call for rescue, wasn’t the rest of Pakistan under shock after the recent quake and wasn’t it Karachi that got up and did something? Wasn’t it boys, girls and old folks from Karachi who have never seen mountains, set out to scale them carrying food and medicine on their backs?
Wasn’t it Karachi lady doctors that first reached Muzaffarabad?
Today even BB could not even gather hundreds in Rawalpindi, She claimed that she will fill up jails. Even people of Punjab are not dumb, common sense prevails throughout the country.
KHANABADOSH ghunda gardee is an essential element in Pakistani politics. If the young blokes of MQM did not have taken up arms then you will be still being beaten by Wagon conductors and Bus drivers.
I admit nobody is an angel but by in large MQM has done was needed to be done and has provided an opportunity to the people of this city to work in peace and have stopped the loot and plunder of the assets that belong to its people. Yes we had turbulent times and anarchy in the nineties, but that’s in the past. There is no need to be apologetic of being a urdu speaker or a MQM supporter, what is needed to be done will be done.
Also the fact remains if there is to be a fundamental change in how this country works then that change has to come from Punjab and I see it now that it will not take long.
Neena – is that female version of BALMA,
if you work / live in karachi ask around yourself how many ‘URDU’ speaking of indian origin families are PRO MQM.
as i can safely estimate 50% of Indian origin background working class of urdu speaking are still PRO JAMAT ISLAMI.
The urchin class of all communities is part of Motahidda Qoumi Movment since after MQM(haqiqi established at the home of CHUHDRY’s of PUNJAB) is side lined, I know for sure, after the murder of Senator Mohsin siddiqui (pakland cement) and murder of Azeem Tariq very slowly (like termite makes way) the CLASS which was elite of MQM sidelined., and people with perfect Bihari Urdu, & UP Urdu accent took over and handling the issues at MQM since then.
Karachi suffered tooo FQIN much, in all aspects of life be it infrastructure, education, financial mobility, industrial growth etc etc, – I believe Karachities will not be malafied by anyone anymore.,
Let us pray PEACE & HARMONY for Karachi all the time everytime.
Cheers ! Karachi ROX !
Even people of Punjab are not dumb, common sense prevails throughout the country.
Not all urdu speakers are MQM walas.
True, I’m one of them btw I was referring to the majority. There were some protests by Karachi Lawyers and Journalists but still they were in minority. Even some stupid karachiites are making it a racial issue. Wake up; it’s fight between Army and Civilians, the same Army who took part in dividing the Pakistan, the same one who created this mess. Until Auyub things were different, after him all the mess started with creation of Bangladesh and all. Karachi was rewarded whenever they slightly sided with popular force, the only Steel Mill is a attestation of it. I know about later events too and how MQM was created to counteract Bhutto factor in Sindh but still majority never knew where to stand. Just like today local leaders need to come forward and register their protest the same leaders who quick to blame BB or Nawaz Sharif looting the country have to say about Army’s looting. It doesn’t say much about their literacy rate but their stupidity.
Don’t worry about Punjab they know when to act or react and they are doing it doesn’t matter under whose leadership. BTW I always believed that revolution comes from Punjab due to its size and government share. So I’m not worried about the future of this country but I had real concern about Karachi, yet again who decided to stay play as black sheep. Don’t complain when Karachi suffers yet again.
JAMAL The Urdu speaking Ashraaf-UP are the ones that once led the poor working class people like jolahey, mistry, barhai, dukaandaar etc into a dead end valley of obscure ideas, in the pursuit of which millions died.
Yes, you are right about the Haqiqi folks, they were given shelter in Punjab by Nawaz Sharif and Chaudry’s and were brought back by the military, rest is history.
You are slightly off target about Jamaat-e-Islami, in fact the most important leader viz a viz Karachi/ Hyderabad prior to MQM era was Moulan Noorani and his party held the most seats in the two cities. After him I not sure that Ashraaf-e-UP are supporting whom? But there choices in the past have been catastrophic.
PS. Resubmitting again as first one was missing the comments I was reffering to.
Not all urdu speakers are MQM walas
True, I’m one of them btw I was referring to the majority. There were some protests by Karachi Lawyers and Journalists but still they were in minority. Even some stupid karachiites are making it a racial issue. Wake up; it’s fight between Army and Civilians, the same Army who took part in dividing the Pakistan, the same one who created this clutter. Until Auyub things were different, after him all the mess started with the creation of Bangladesh and all. Karachi was rewarded whenever they slightly sided with popular force; the only Steel Mill is an attestation of it. I know about later events too and how MQM was created to counteract Bhutto factor in Sindh but still majority never knew where to stand. Just like today local leaders need to come forward and register their protest – the same leaders who are quick too quick to blame BB or Nawaz Sharif looting the country but have nothing to say about Army’s looting. It doesn’t say much about their literacy rate but their stupidity.
Even people of Punjab are not dumb, common sense prevails throughout the country.
Don’t fret about Punjab they know when to act or react and they are doing it doesn’t matter under whose leadership. BTW I always believed that revolution comes from Punjab due to its size and government share. So I’m not worried about the future of this country but I had real concern about Karachi, yet again who decided to stay play as black sheep. Don’t complain when Karachi suffers yet again.
I think students in Karachi have shouldered too many dead bodies of their friends on different occasions, now they’re fed up.
This shouldering of dead bodies has happened due to politics and due to other factors (e.g. stupid quarrels on who will take which girl) also. In the politics, all parties are more or less involved, I’m not particularly defending or particularly blaming anyone.
Also, as far as I know, rangers are only deployed in educational institutions in Sindh. I don’t think rangers will be there to baton charge students in LUMS. This is also another factor why Karachi’s students are silent. Also, if there were rangers in Lahore, they would be speaking in the same accent as the students, which would make for a kinship, which is absent in Karachi.
Another thing is that students in Karachi’s educational institutes are well-acquainted with violence, power politics and pressure politics. They know how students are beat up (after all political activists too are also students of the same place), how tubelights are broken on other’s wrists, how a soft drink bottle is held by the neck and its bottom is smashed on the kerbstone, only to drive it into the face of the opposition member (my it instantly disfigures you for life), they also know how batons of rangers taste on their arms. They also know how ’sarya’ (steel rebar used in RCC roofing etc.) is used on other students to break their kneecaps.
They also know how a goon-with-a-gun would climb the water tank tower (or some other high building) and keep firing off entire belts of ammo into the air. They know to differentiate between the sound of pump action, AK-47 and G3. They know how window to window crossfire takes place in hostels (remember the police raids in SMC hostel in 2002?)
Now what Lahori and Islamabadi students are doing is a ‘new’, ‘adventure’ for them. I think it won’t be bad if they got the idea too (I don’t want the violence to shift there but life is all about experiences, isn’t it?).
Karachi’s students are light-years ahead in terms of experience, exposure, knowledge, information and practicalism. They are just seeing the Lahori and Islamabadi students enjoying their time with the wise smile of an old man. They have already seen much more than that can happen up north, why should they care?
(BTW why are you so ‘beqarar’ to have protests, unrest, riots, violation, blood & gore on our campuses? Although I simply HATE Musharraf I think it’s best that our campuses remain calm and students actually study something rather than engaging in what they shouldn’t). When I say blood & gore, it isn’t exaggeration. We have rangers on campus, Lahore & Isb don’t.
So please students of Lhr and Isb, come out of your drugs (I know there is much more drug abuse up there, drugs are simply so expensive in Karachi, and students have other addicitons, such as politics, here, too) and enjoy some realism.
NEENA it’s the crises time when people show their real colours, I have what was needed to be said about Karachi. But what I am amused by veiled threats by people like you.
We have seen worse time and endured worst torture. Also you guys need to grow, if it indeed MQM was created to counter PPP in Karachi (Which by the way has always been non-existent in this city) then those who created have surpassed their goals and now you have a reality i.e. Muttahida which enjoys majority support and I am not apologetic about it, because they are acting in the best interest of the citizens of this city and the country at large.
No govt that tried to suppress the people of this city, survived and we intend to keep our record.
I had very good vibes for you, but for now keep your concerns and threats to yourself, we are more than capable of taking care of ourselves and others who are left un-attended in this city when rallies are disrupted by bombs and people lay in misery and despair in our hospitals with those who brought them no where to be found.
BTW I see no military in the streets, all I see are police guys commanded by the Chaudry’s. This emergency is looking more and more like a showdown b/w the Q-League and PPP, and it seems Q-League has won the first round.
Excellent post Zainab!!!
Well written and very well to the point. The question remains unanswered:
- Where are the students of karachi???
- Who is stopping them from standing up for the rule of law???
- Have they all been subjugated into accepting the commands of the “great, glorious, all wise, all knowing” leader or do they still have the ability to ask questions and think for themselves???
NENA said:
I had real concern about Karachi, yet again who decided to stay play as black sheep. Don’t complain when Karachi suffers yet again.
Any takers?
@Neena,
“Don’t fret about Punjab they know when to act or react and they are doing it doesn’t matter under whose leadership”
Please leave my city Karachi for good now if you think people are so stupid here. Go to Punjab where you belong and be a part of this stupid protest..It aint going to happen in Karachi..
What the hell you exactly trying to say here “Wake up; it’s fight between Army and Civilians, the same Army who took part in dividing the Pakistan…” Are fukin Out of your mind, you want to fight against your own Army???? Get the hell out of this country you freakin indian agent..
KADS to answere your questions;
- Where are the students of karachi???
They are studying or talking about girls / cricket — which is normal
- Who is stopping them from standing up for the rule of law???
No one.
- Have they all been subjugated into accepting the commands of the “great, glorious, all wise, all knowing” leader or do they still have the ability to ask questions and think for themselves???
Isn’t that a blessing to let someone else do the thinking for you viz a viz vague ideals, leaving you free to pursue your dreams / goals and cherish the most precious thing i.e. life.
BTW, why this finger pointing towards Karachi students I see no no sensible students in Punjaab on the streets except for a couple of hundred jamatees and PTI’s inside LUMS, who hid their play cards when two police officers approached the gate. This can be called bowl movement not even unrest. Universities and Colleges are open throughout Pakistan and this also unique in the history of this country.
C’mon, Reality_Check MQM was finished when their leader had chosen British life over them. On ground Karachiites are aligning towards Jamiat again and it saddens me more. I don’t want them to vote for PPP but there are other national parties who has Urdu speaking candidates, I know how Mohajirs hate every non Mohajir so I can understand it.
Read my comment again – btw I said “MQM was created to counteract Bhutto factor in Sindh”.
@Neena,
“MQM was finished when their leader had chosen British life over them. On ground Karachiites are aligning towards Jamiat again ”
Well then why you keep saying that ppl are not coming out on the street because MQM is in the partnership wtih Mush??? if MQM has no roots in public then why ppl still waiting for MQM to call the protests???/
Wakeup stop dreaming and eat something in the morning so you talk senseable.
@Reality:
“BTW, why this finger pointing towards Karachi students I see no no sensible students in Punjaab on the streets except for a couple of hundred jamatees and PTI’s inside LUMS. Universities and Colleges are open throughout Pakistan and this also unique in the history of this country. ”
You are right. students across the country have not risen up as they should have. Even the protests in lahore are muted and very small. The only reason i mentioned karachi was that was the topic under discussion and this being KMB. Same applies to students all over the country. Where are they???
Imran,
Your all responses are very childish but I still won’t say go back to India because you still consider yourself “Mohajir”.
zab spent around 10 years as a part of ayub’s military government. ns was a blue-eyed boy of zia and even ditched his own party in favour of zia when zia dismissed junejo’s pml government. but despite the fact that leading political personalities have openly sided with military govt for long periods, only mqm is singled out for criticism by mqm’s opponent for cooperating with the army. reasons:
1. mqm support base comprises of nichlay durjay kay kaalay loag and in our society kaalay loag can be seen and but not heard. if altaf hussain was a presentable looking gora aadmi, acceptance of mqm would be much higher in pak. since currently mqm is supporting musharraf against the wishes of gora punjabis and awwul zaath kay muhajir, mqm is portrayed as the second coming of the nazi party. if mqm suicide bombers were targetting pak army as the pakhtuns are currently doing, pakistanis who considers themselves to be goras would be openly calling for the army to wipe out mqm.
2. mqm is openly anti-feudal and in societies where ruling classes posses feudal mentality, nichlay zaath kay loag have no right to think that they can produce their own leaders. in a feudal society like pak, tribal leaders like akbar bugti are heroes despite the fact that they have oppressed their own people for generations while altaf is a villan despite making millions of poor people a part of the mainstream.
mqm’s politics is flawed and often violent. but then so were the politics of IRA which was banded as a terrorist by uk government for decades. and yet today, IRA is a part of govt in northern ireland. until pak politics remains screwed up, mqm will do what it takes to survive. and given the fact that mqm is one of the only mass political parties in the islamic world to be openly anti-mullah, long may it prosper.
@Imran I am soorry your language leaves much to be desired. There is no need to get so nasty in expressing your point of view.
@Neena I am a “mohajir” (one of the labels bestowed on me by the natives of this land of the pure). I do not hate non-mohajirs for being non-mohajirs nor do I support anyone (e.g. Musharraf) solely because they are mohajir. However, I do detest non-mohajirs who insist upon applying a different standard of rights and citizenship to mohajirs than they do to themselves. For this I have no apologies.
people in karachi have already been through enough trauma…innocent people dying in the recent blast at Karsaz, the 12th may incident…both events brought the city to a standstill and left the karachiites horror stricken.
holding more protests and rallies will lead the city into more chaos. After looking at the results of the LUMS protest why would karachi students want to follow pursuit?
Dont you think that rallies and protests should be held in the country’s capital, rather than karachi which seems to be bearing the brunt of all the political scenarios???
NEENA now you are talking sensible, I will disregard your previous outburst as driven by emotions. However I will again contradict what you are saying;
It was a common thought that MQM was finished when Altaf went to London. But whatever you say or feel about that guy, he turned that to his advantage. He invented,”Telephonic Khitaab” and re-aligned and re-organized MQM and turned it into Muttahida, with a much more presentable agenda and goals. A team of ex-APMSO go getters was re-assembled and when the opportunity came they were given the task of running this city, and whatever the detractors might say they have done an amazing job, and people here realize that. Its not like jiyalaas who demand jobs in PIA and Customs in return for sacrifices they make and BB is forced to oblige. If you look at current Adminstration of Karachi, yes workers have been given jobs but they have also been put to work, koi haraam kit tour kar nahein khaa raha, everybody is contributing. There is a lot happening out here.
So if these guys don’t speak saaf urdu like me or they don’t have the correct mannerisms, I don’t mind. They have shown that they know where the pulse of the people is and have made very sensible political decisions on their behalf.
in response to Javaria’s question, I think that the citizens of Islamabad should protest more than us karachiites. With everything happening in the country, Karachi seems to be the center of attention, while the citizens of Islamabad seem to be taking a back seat. If such activities are carried out in Islamabad, it would probably get more attention.
Rallies are not the only way of protesting, other peaceful methods of getting one’s point across, for instance, being an art student, i think that we can use our skills and make posters or flyers and pass them around.
How did the LUMS protest help in the situation, infact they were just arrested and beaten up???
Dear ms. Radvi, I am very glad to hear that Karachi students are not on streets involved in ghundagardi, but sticking to their academic institutions. This is a great sign. Finally, our stduents are behaving like students and not like piThoos of some discredited disgraced politician (read Budnazir) or corrupt lawyers. Alhamdulilah.
I am having a lilbit of a problem with this gora-kala Urdu / Panjabi nonsense here. Altaf Hussain is not less presentatble than Zardari. Also, most of UP and Panjab races are same. Rajputs, Gujjars, and Jats are on both sides.
What kind of nonsense was that, guys?
Also, Panjabi is almost same as Urdu….perhaps if Urdu is version 7.0, Panjabi is version 6. Perhaps, Urdu was spoken in more cosmopolitan areas. We can discuss this another time.
But, stop this kala-gora business. Mujhay yeh sub paRh kar jhoor-jhoori aa agaee!
@Neena,
My comments may sound to you childish but they are senseable and reactions to your stupid illogical comments. We call ourself “Mohajir” because there were no other names available, so we had to come up with something to identify ourselves. we had been called “Makkar” “bhia” “india kai loug” “urdu speaking” so we decided to make our own and now we are proud to be called “Mohajir”. If you dont like it, too bad, its not going to change..
People of Karachi have suffered alot and seen alot and they know who is sincere with them. They know nobody raised their voices and enjoyed the killings of Innocent Mohajirs in 90s. houses were raided day n night, neighbourhoods were sorrounded by law enforcement agencies and people were lined up blind folded no matter what age group they belong to. Elder people were beaten because their sons supported MQM, women were dsirespected because of the association with MQM. if they did not find the MQM workers they arrested their parents and siblings. WHERE THE HELL YOU WERE AT THAT TIME??? WHERE THE HELL ALL JOURNALIST AT THAT TIME???? WHERE THE HELL ALL THESE POLITICAL PARTIES AT THAT TIME???? WHERE THE HELL ALL THESE HOUMAN RIGHTS PEOPLE AT THAT TIME???????
No you are all shouting about ban on media, WHERE THE HELL YOU WERE WHEN BB put ban on cell phone usage in Karachi????Where the hell were you when young men were affraid to wear jeans so they dont get caught by police in some areas of Karachi?????
Where were you when all these extra judicail killings were happening???
If people hated MQM that much, they would have supported the opertion and would not have allowed mqm workers to hide in thier houses.
MQM was not a voilent party but it was forced to chose that path because it was pushed to the wall and left with no choice but to push back.
Get your facts togather before you open your mouth against MQM.
Get a piece of paper and write this down:
MQM is the only party that is supported by majority of karachi ppl and will be the only party representing urban parts of sindh.
MQM was created because of the injustice done on the citizens of karachi by the people of punjab(not all punjabies but fudels and people in power)
KADS Your argument accepted, it makes more sense now since you re-phrased it.
You want to incite have a go it’s your right……Good Luck!!
IMRAN – you are quiet a youthful energetic dude. be careful & respectful when addressing ‘Ladies’ specially.
Not all of your points are valid, but some are quiet heavy weight.
Correction – The MQM came into being on BEHEST of ZIA – and was created out of Martial Law and to protect Interest of Bureaucracy (grade 16 & above federal employees)
to neautralise the Jamat-E-Islami and PPP hold in the Urban Sindh.
MQM was never formed to serv the suffering of migrated class of India or East Pakistan, –
MQM always endorsed the quota system, never stood up against the biased system, never uphold the woman integrity nor their rights,
and on TOP they never voiced or addressed the issue of Stranded Pakistanis in EAST PAKISTAN Refugee camps. Also they NEVER EVER held elections within their party.
Feudalism across Pakistan IS against the transformation of MOHAJIR QOMI Movement to – MUTTAHIDA QOMI Movement., as they feel threat a real threat to their own system which revolves among Khans, Maliks, & Chauhdry’s of the area.
Now the existing shape and heirarchy of MQM is under the clutches of Feudlism by itself and they have gone way away from what their original agenda WAS.
However you are correct that Karachi alone have seen enough blood and burried enough bodies that people are least interested in coming out unless they are really AFFECTED.
students are no longer in Govt institutes, which were charging petty amount of money and getting subsidy from the Govt.
Students are now BUYING education against their parents money, each semester is minimum 35 ~ 40K and am sure NO parent will ever encourage their college / university going siblings to be part of protest.
so in the END -
@Zainub Razvi – do u really wish that students come on streets and waste their time for nothing.
try and skip your work everytime there is a protest, do tell your employer you are taking time off for protest,
I hope you will get paid for being part of protest… or else
Jamal you said;
MQM was never formed to serv the suffering of migrated class of India or East Pakistan, –
MQM always endorsed the quota system, never stood up against the biased system, never uphold the woman integrity nor their rights,
So MQM came from heaven against Jamaat and PPP, installed by army and did nothing.
Tall statements but highly in-accurate, comments on these would be lengthy and out of scope and people here have a tendency to direct every topic into discussion about MQM. I have dwelled on these before and will choose my time and place to comment again.
Jamal bhai sahab,
I really respect your thougtful comments but some of them are really not true.
MQM does hold election in partyat all levels in tanzeemi setup (except Quaid’s position :)please check with any MQM worker if you know any and they will tell how the election being held within the party.
MQM is the only party who has always voiced for women rights and against honor killing openly(its on the record)specially during the “zana ordinance”(forgot what exactly it was)
I openly say that MQM is aint Angel and has done some wrong but all in all it is the best option we got and the best part of MQM is that it is from us and it is for us.
Reality –
Fair enough, I will wait for right forum to seek my correction from righteous.
Zainub: When i said we cant be doin with protest business no more – that doesnt mean indifference to whats happening in the country, but if Karachi is at peace (for a change) and everybody is on with their business (for a change) – then what on earth are you on about? Why and be like a bloggin lenon? You want KU students to come out protest PSF gets involved APMSO reacts back Pakhtoon elements add in Haqiqi chaps wakes up rangers are called in..University closes down ..tear gassed shelling students die!! and the rest of the country is at peace!!! so much for your protests ehh!! Best is dont say or “try” to activate something which you have no idea about!
seems like we are all moving away from topic, Imran & reality – let us save all that for some other time -
here on this TOPIC –
I vote ‘against’ students coming on street for any kind of protest. Stay at your schools, and keep focused on your studies.
- Shall we be ONE on this -
JAMAL I AM WITH YOU ALL THE WAY ON THIS.
we who witnessed the chaos and the perpetual closure of educational activity and loss of precious lives / time can never advocate such recipe for the kids who are our future.
I am already sounding very old.
On our dis-agreements – if everyone agreed on everything then this world would be a very boring place. In fact why would we be wasting our time posting comments on blogs authored by others :-)
IMRAN you can express yor views but mind your tongue, this blog has come a long way from name calling and cursing. Remember when you curse you weaken your argument.
@Jamal,
I am with you on this man. ENOUGH WITH THIS PROTEST THING..Let us live in peace and let Karachi become a city which attracts visitors..We karachiites cannot afford any other trauma to be firs voilent city in the world..Zainub and Neena and others who agree with them, please go to punjab if you really dying to protest against Mush,,I will buy you a first class tickets but please let my city be in peace..We dont care about these corrupt lawyers, so called journalists, and stupid Benazir.. All these lawyers sell thier loyality for hundred reupees only..People in Karachi enjoying the wedding/shopping season..let us be in peace and enjoy the chicken corn soup and Khatiya waari cholai during winter night…
Absolutely Agree with Jamal Shamsi!!
Count my vote in Against people comin on streets for some stupid politically motivated protests.
I think some people have misunderstood the spirit in which this post was made. LUMS students never took to the ’streets’ per se; all the protests, to my understanding at least, were held on campus. This is vastly different then students coming out in numbers on Mall Road and protesting. Above everything all, these protests were peaceful. In any case, I did not attempt to persuade students either to neglect their own studies or indugle in any kind of violence. My attempt was one, to examine the reasons for the difference in the response by students in three of Pakistan’s largest cities (as this was a question I had been asked my self) and two, to encourage passive defiance, that is why I discussed the idea of black arm bands.
It is quite commical though, the way several fervent MQM and Musharraf supporters argue in favor of depoliticising the educational sector. A family member of mine is an assitant professor at NED, he was telling me how teachers were “under pressure” to pass students affiliated with various political groups, most prominently APMSO, around examinations time each year. I was also narrated an incident where a student apparently brought in a sector in-charge alongside him after he was asked to turn up at a department chairman’s office with his parents in connection with a complain filed by a teacher over persistent misbehaviour and mobile use in class. When the head of department refused to speak to the sector-incharge, APMSO worked conviniently assumed the complain against the student was registered by rival JI students, and went on to engage in a verbal confration with oppositing student wing leaders, that boiled over to physical duel within a very short space of time. How about MQM and JI supporters supported fix this kind of dirty politics before condeming others calling on for peaceful, civil passive defiance of wasting student’s time and iciting them to voilence and hatred and what not. I’ll also remember to remind you of your thoughts on how students should merely study and not indulge in meaningful politics next time APMSO organise a pro-govt. rally. Thank you for your insights everyone.
This is the first time I am seeing that author herself diverting her topic to against MQM. The incident (if it is true at all) has nothing to do with the topic. If you cannot come up with strong arguments to support what you wrote then stop writing please. We have discussed MQM in many posts and neither MQM supporters going to change thier veiws nor MQM haters going to change thiers, so I think its a useless conversation.
The story you tell above is nothing new in pakistan, all student wings are involve in this and we all know that.
The question you asked “Where are Karachi’s student?” has been answered by bloggers and the answer is that they dont want to protest against Mush because they can see with their open eyes how Karachi has been neglected by other Governments and how it is progressing in Mush era, whether you like it or not it is the truth. Just a reminder, there are other student wings (JI, PSF, Pakhtoons, psa,…)have units in all college campuses, so if APMSO is not protesting then where are they?? why dont they protest and come out on the street like they did on May 12???
Don’t tell me that Jamatiis are affraid of MQM because they never miss a chance to clash with APMSO.
Rallies are not the only way of protesting, other peaceful methods of getting one’s point across, for instance, being an art student, i think that we can use our skills and make posters or flyers and pass them around
Bibi, I do agree with you that coming on road is not the only option for demonstration and express concerns but then the other CIVILIZED option you gave is not acceptable either. If you have ever heard about fascist student org like APMSO then you wouldn’t have given this option either. Forget about students, I give you example of how intolerant is the party called MQM.
A couple of years back, MQM Minister Amiq Liaquat was accessed by Mush’s guys and tried to bring in parallel of Altaf Hussain. Amir is/was darling of Musharraf and reason he bacame His darling because Amir once said that he wanted to sent ALL politicians to IRaq as Punishment. Mush loved it then his so called “Alim” online program also helped to earn scores infront of Mush.
When this plan was revealed against Altaf, Overnight all walls of Karachi were polluted by things like sirf Altaf, or Only Altaf to send message to Amir that Only Altaf could rule in Karachi noone else. After few weeks Amir was found in London and saying GOOD WORDS about Altaf. When there is a party who can treat hisown members like that and even can kill them like Azeem Tariq and Khalid Waleed were killed then how could u expect students to face these goons?
Come Karachi and face ground realities. Kids who have been babbling here about MQM are those who started favoring MQM after Musharraf’s coup in 1999 otherwise they also didn’t know much about MQM. So enjoy the show which was staged by these kids as ghalib said once, “Hota hey shab-o-roz tamasha merey agay”.
Zainub I am literally in awe for your naivety, you have now taking the discussion to how student leaders get passed? Which is in itself a topic worth debating and applies to all studentd groups since Zia’s time and even prior to that. I remember posting earlier that I am all for all political parties coming on a consensus that they will dissolve or atleast dis-arm their student wings and that applies to all. APMSO is the junior most member of student org fraternity. Jamiat, PSF and MSF are one of the oldest. Will Jamaat dis-arm jamiat members of who were paraded / garlanded after their glorious return from Afghanistan. Will PPP dissolve SPY? These are the questions that require political leaders to build a consensus and we should all work together to dis-arm our society without which sanity will never prevail.
Will this happen in the near future? I don’t think so. I don’t see it in the manifesto of any political party.
Here we go I was waiting for you Adnan to come out and say something about MQM. I was wondering how could he miss this chance to bash MQM.
Problem with you my friend is that you assume everything. you dont know anything about me and others but you assumed yourslef that we did not know anything about MQM before Mush era..what can I say about you…
I dont think any of you here have any idea about MQM. I did not want to say but you forced me to say it that I know MQM since 86 and have seen his work from bottom to the top. If you in doubt, we can chat about it.
So please do not assume that you are the only person here who knows MQM from inside out.
I have seen everything with my own eyes and I have suffered the 90s era (dont even go there). I dont know much about you, but just wanna say that you seems like the one who enjoyed being part of MQM prior to 19 june operation and then became MQM hater “MEETHA MEETHA HUP HUPHere we go I was waiting for you Adnan to come out and say something about MQM. I was wondering how could he miss this chance to bash MQM.
Problem with you my friend is that you assume everything. you dont know anything about me and others but you assumed yourslef that we did not know anything about MQM before Mush era..what can I say about you…
I dont think any of you here have any idea about MQM. I did not want to say but you forced me to say it that I know MQM since 86 and have seen his work from bottom to the top. If you in doubt, we can chat about it.
So please do not assume that you are the only person here who knows MQM from inside out.
I have seen everything with my own eyes and I have suffered the 90s era (dont even go there). I dont know much about you, but just wanna say that you seems like the one who enjoyed being part of MQM prior to 19 june operation and then became MQM hater “MEETHA MEETHA HUP HUP< KURWA KURWA THOO THOO”
ADNAN there you go again your second hand knowledge of National and international events is quite mind boggling. If Musharraf ever considered that Amir Liaquat will replace Altaf then he deserves to be ousted,, seriously he is so stupid I didn’t know that. on second thought Arent you confusing Amir Khan with Amir Liaquat?
As for protesting peacefully I tend to agree with you and Zainub on this, it’s a fundamental right, but if people are not inclined to do even that, then nobody can force them either.
Reality,I am not here to convince you. You say whatever you want. As I said that *newbies* are so hype that they think they know everything while other who oppose MQM know nothing.
ATLEAST for MQM thingie I am not dependent on any 3rd party Media. So kindly quit this immature redundancy in almost every other post and learn to accept that people COULD quit MQM for any reason. People even leave religion for any reason, MQM is still an organization.
Cursing Media and then the other guy who said all anti-Mush people have no life and they rely on media, I wonder whether Expats have some physical or spirtual power that they visit Pakistan late night and collect all info themselves? Even calling back to home and ask something is a form of Media propaganda.
I also second Mush was stupid to rely on Amir Liaquat but then what else can you expect from a dictator? Maybe he had thought that Amir is educated and know How to communicate which forced them to bring him up.
No, Amir Khan was made HERO by Army in early 90s when Haqiqi was made. Its true Both Amir and Afaq were tried in parallel of Altaf but both didn’t respond them properly. Later it was tried again with Liaquat but it was revealed, as usual hence plan got failed then Mush had no choice other than shaking hands with Alaf.
Well said Zainab. You speak the truth and that is evident.
I have observed that the MQM supporters on this forum are like sheep. Blindly following the “great all wise and all knowing” Quiad in karachi. They never question peer sahib and have been told to swith their brains off. There is no remedy for such folks. Imran being the prime example of such mind numbing allegiance. Asking questions of the leaders and using your own brain is a prerequisite
for evolution. Blind followers end up in a ditch. Im now beginning to understand a lot of whats behind the malaise of karachi.
Well said Zainab. You speak the truth and that is evident.
I have observed that the MQM supporters on this forum are like sheep. Blindly following the “great all wise and all knowing” Quiad in LONDON. They never question peer sahib and have been told to swith their brains off. There is no remedy for such folks. Imran being the prime example of such mind numbing allegiance. Asking questions of the leaders and using your own brain is a prerequisite
for evolution. Blind followers end up in a ditch. Im now beginning to understand a lot of whats behind the malaise of karachi.
“Pak Tea House” at ATP posted following saying of Jinnah, The Quaid:
“I particularly appeal to our intelligentsia and students to come forward and rise to the occasion. You have performed wonders in the past. You are still capable of repeating the history. You are not lacking in the great qualities and virtues in comparison with the other nations. Only you have to be fully conscious of that fact and to act with courage, faith and unity.”
Message to Pakistan Day, issued from Delhi March 23, 1943
very well said by Mr.Jinnah. According to Pro-Musharraf, Jinnah sounds lame here. *shakes head*
Our city of Karachi is simply growing up. It has seen too much recently, dealt with too much. No matter how many different feelings reside within its citizens, Karachiites are slowly, but surely, learning that their our more civil and non violent ways of expressing a difference of opinion or for standing up for what they believe in.
And that is why our students are not being seen on the streets. I am sure the ones that dont agree with the current state of emergency will come up with a different way to let their feelings about it known in another non violent and civil way, which is completely alright; everyone has a right to their opinion.
Our city is growing up. Simple. :)
Well said Zainub. I knew you were referring to peaceful few minutes protest. But Karachi students knows no such thing that’s why jumped into stupid arguments.
@ Adnan Siddiqui
You would not be shaking your head if you had understood the context in which the quote was said and the ground realities before making comments.
That quote of the Quaid was for the students during that period of political struggle against British and the common goal that was put forward by the Quaid was a country for Muslims; all of the students supported him to achieve that goal. Students were not divided by their cast or sect.
Now consider some of the students’ organizations from today. How many of them truly believe in common goal?
PSA – Punjabi Students Association – they “protect” Punjabis. Why do they need an association for Punjabi students? Who violated the rights of Punjabi students? Were they denied seats in universities b/c they were Punjabis or what? What was the reason for their creation? I have witnessed the ghunda gardi and horror from these guys when they were protected and helped by Rangers to attack students from a “rival” student organization!!!
IJT – Islami Jamiat Talba – which claims to be not based on cast or race. What are their goals? My common sense tells me that their goal should be to promote Islam among students, but could you tell me how many true Islamic activities these guys perform? I have witnessed Jamati students smashing the head of a guy in KU in late 90’s!!! What is that? Utter ignorance and hypocrisy. They don’t practice what they preach!
JSSO – Jiye Sindh Student Organization – aah, here are the Vanguard for Sindhis. Again, what have they done for Sindhi students?
Pakhtoon Student Federation, Baloch Student Organization, APMSO, and the list go on. All of the parties are political and most of them are the student wing of a political party.
Each and every organization has different goals and objectives; the only thing common among all of them is the way they deal with the rival students and how they settle scores.
So do you still think the Quaid’s quote will be valid in this environment where all of us are divided deeply by cast/sect? Could you name at least one student organization which is not political to its core and is not run by hypocrites/goons? Even the socio-political organization like Pasban is being played in the hands of the others.
In response to the Quaid’s quote mentioned by you, I would like to mention the following quote from the Quaid. (Jamash mentioned that in one of his posts).
‘ We Are Muslims And Pakistanis First: “Let me warn you in the clearest term of the dangers that still faces Pakistan…. Having failed to prevent the establishment of Pakistan, thwarted and frustrated by their failure, the enemies of Pakistan have now turned their attention to disrupt the state by creating a split amongst the Muslims of Pakistan. These attempts have taken the shape principally of encouraging provincialism. As long as you do not throw off this poison [of provincialism] in our body politic, you will be never be able to weld your self, mould your self, galvanize your self into a real, true nation. What we want is not to talk about Bengali, Punjabi, Sindhi, Balochi, Pathan, and so on. They are of course units. But I ask you: have you forgotten the lesson that was taught to us thirteen hundred years ago? If I may point out, you are all outsiders here. Who were the original inhabitants of Bengal — not those who are now living here. So what is the use of saying, ‘we are Bengalis, or Sindhis, or Pathans or punjabis.’ No, we are Muslims.” (Address, Public meeting, Dacca, 21 March 1948)
Thank you MS and others That was very comments.
Watch out! Our enemies (they know who they are) would love to see us divided, fight among ourselves and then take over.Islam is a very good religion but Quaide Azam did nt mean us to become fanatics and fight over pilly Hadees interpretations.
Brothers and sisters , nobody dare to take your rights away if you stay united.
Let everyone get educated (modern education) and then everything would fall into its right place.
peace and love for everyone including enemies.
I am amazed Mullah types would resort to quoting from “Kafir e Azam” to serve their purpose but then again honesty is not the name of the game where Mullahs are concerned…
KADS you have a lot to learn, understand and grow up. Dont come here and teach politics to us. We know our history and are not drenched in ignorance like you guys. If you want to promote PTI why dont you guys say so…..why this convassing by implication….
Deal with your Chaudry’s first and then come here to lecture us….
Neena, you wrote:
“Imran, Your all responses are very childish but I still won’t say go back to India because you still consider yourself “Mohajir”.
I cannot say whether you found (my) comments to be childish, bcz perception is relative after all :)
But for the “Mohajir” comment i hope u’re not referring to me bcz i never called myself mohajir, nor did i use the ‘eff’ word – as used by the other Imran in his post.
ADNAN this is Jinnah by selection. If Jinnah’s speech to constituent regarding secularism is quoted then every body says Aaein baein shaein.
Make Pakistan secular again and I will advocate what is quoted above.
@Reality
WHy dont u go jump is a lake of reality for a start before telling people what they can and can not say or where they should or should not go?
You need to grow up and start questioning your peer sahib. The coward who is enjoying the good life in london while hiding behind his trained terrorists in karachi and mind dead morons who dare not question his “orders”. Else, you shall forever remain far away from reality and buried in hate that ex taxi driver and now millionaire “peer” propogates.
KADS now your secret is out, posing as supporter of Musharraf who has changed his mind, what crap!!
As for Altaf he was never was my peer Sahib, I have always been a free thinker, I have played my part and I very well know what is right and what is wrong. Altaf or no Altaf we have made a concious decision that we will not let people of Karachi be used again. We have seen dear ones die in our arms and that has hardened us, but will make sure that our kids are safe and have all the opportunities that this world has to offer.
I dont change nicks and pose as someone else, while you guys are just a new front for Jamaat-e-Islami and promoters of Hameed Gul’s ideals,please be aware that this cosmotology will serve you no good. Karachi will not be given back to suicide bombers and crazy zealots, a lot is at stake.
Let me paint you another scenario, if tomorrow Mush is ousted then what? First thing the judge Sahib will be marginalized at all cost. BB, NS Qazi, Chaudry’s, Fazlul Rehman will be fighting it out and the next General will kick them out again.
What we have lost already. if this mess was not started, the next step forward for this Nation would have been the provincial autonomy bill, which would have been passed by the current assembly and the provinces would have finally been empowered after 60 years.
it does not take a blind man to see how much this nation has move forward in every field in the past 10 years compared to the ditch it was in during the nineties. remember it never pays to cut the branch you are sitting on.
Totally agree with REALITY_CHECK here; the country has definitely come a long way compared to 90’s and Musharraf is the best option we have got @ this point in time. Some of his decisions are controversial but for the most part he is much better than BB and NS.
@Reality: Jinnah never preached Secularism. I already made a post about this propaganda about Jinnah on my Blog. Theory of Jinnah as secularist was already debunked long time back by “Jinnah Himself” just like theory of evolution was debunked by many so this tactic doesn’t work anymore. If religious right blamed jinnah as Kafir-e-Azam then extremist left(like one above who mentioned kafir azam thingie) labaled Jinnah as a person who had NO knowledge about Islam. Such extremist left got pissed so much that they didn’t attend funeral prayers of Jinnah because it was led by Molvi Usmani. So these lame tactics atleast don’t impress me anymore
ADNAN lets not start this one once again. Jinnah is dead and so are his ideals. We are now here arguing with each other about screwed up National events, which make no sense. The whole country is a confused lot. I think we need to make the equation simpler i.e.
democracy – extremism = people working
The remainder that is ideology can be kept in cold storage for a while to be re-dicovered by future generations. In the present day and age – Noideology is the best ideology.
Back to topic about Karachi’s students. I would continue about tolerance level among MQM by discussing Amir Liaquat Again. After threat to Liaqat by writing “SIRF ALTAF” everywhere, recently Amir was forced to quit Minister ship just because He said on TV that those who offend Muhammad(SAW) should have been killed. It was not liked by so called secularist Altaf and he ordered him to quit the seat. Where a party leader is so extremist with his OWN BUDDIES then how could u consider them nice with others. These days Amir has been throwing up his frustration(may be repanting) by writing articles against Musharraf and Altaf. His recent article was indirect attack on Altaf and Musharraf. I have sent him email to ask further about it, lets see he has courage to admit the evilness of his own party and his uncle musharraf.
Somebody said about issues between MQM and IJT. Well I don’t disagree either that both IJT and MQM promoted fascism and extremism in universities and why would MQM not go against IJT? After all MQM is actually IJT HAQIQI. I don’t know whether MQM’s wannabes know or not that Altaf Hussain was one of the most active member of IJT in KU. Students of KU of that time know very well how much heated debate he used to give in favor of Jamat’s propaganda. Later Altaf had tussle with IJT guys and he was beaten like hell by IJT goons. Altaf was already pissed. Later Zia who was already frustrated with popularity of B.B at that time had no option other to bring some other party against PPP. Altaf already had so called “Middle class” Agenda at that time, Zia didn’t lose the chance and used this hyper student in forming another org (APMSO). So in reality MQM’s differences with IJT is not due to political and ideology rather it’s due to “personal revenge”.
If you notice that Altaf seldom says anything against Zia, infact I had not read it. How could he dare when Zia was his “Mai Baap”? When A dictator could split IJT just for sake of his own interest then why can;t other dictator split MQM. Infact MQM got splitted in two factions in 91 when Haqiqi was formed.
Newbies MQM’s Wannabes who might not have permission to come out of home without permission of Momma are active on Internet and babbling about MQM with those who had with MQM in past. Interesting. NED was not so far from KU or maybe ignorance level was so high that it didn’t allow to see other side of the wall *grin*- Keep going. Rants in favor of MQM could sound interesting but doesn’t reflect reality. Come back to Pakistan, Meet MQM’s own officials first, specially the old lot because new lot is not less “kachra” than one i see active online who don’t know MQM’s history then you would learn what’s actually MQM. Blaming others that they don’t know MQM because they oppose just helping to declaring you less credible,nothing else.
So by mentioning all this and about those who labeled jInnah as secularists, The “Enemy” mentioned by Jinnah were actually revealed by him in his speech:
Every Mussalman knows that the injunctions of the Holy Quran are not confined to religious and moral duties. From the Atlantic to the Ganges, says Gibbon, the Holy Quran is acknowledged as the fundamental code, not only of theology, but of civil and criminal jurisprudence, and the laws which regulate the action and the property of mankind are governed by immutable sanctions of the will of God”. Everyone, except those who are ignorant, knows the Holy Quran is the general code of the Muslims(message of Eid to the Muslims in September 1945)
Ironically Jinnah is cursing so called secularists and liberals in his speeches. *grin*
tata as I have nothing to say further on this topic. Have a nice weekend *grin*
do lahaori hav to face traffic problems and then the slaray deduction like we get. do they suffer with the every other day strikes, which result in a 3 billion above loss wen there is one in karachi, do they get to see mqm fight mma in colleges , resulting in delays in exmas and stuff, do they get 12 may like incidents, do they see rain water standing till months on roads, is every single road of lahore digged up. do the underpasses fill up there with the water, do they get elect shut down for the whole days. etc etc etc.. do u think we still have timefor this chukh chukh.. still ,, we were the proud host of world social forum, we convice the world to come to expo 2006 2005, even wen the city is not safe, and u watch the 3 odi b/w rsa and pak and take time out for the stylish , glamourus muzahira ! get out of the college and face the music guys!!
but still , KARACHITE’s shud still try to be on raods, well knowing by whom the city is bein run and wat they are capable of doing.. (12 may)
apologies if any mistakes in typing!
salaray deduction due to late arrivals in the office
REality_Check: Did you or any one else read Hussain Haqqani’s OpEd in WSJ? IS he the guy who was a student leader at KU from PK Qtrs in 1970s.
Any way, what a girgiT? One day he is with NS, next day with Budnazir, and the hypocrate didn’t have moral courtesy to let readers know that yeah, besides Budnazir, he was an advisor to her opponents as well:-)
Saalaa, lagtaaa hae iss kaa aglaa qadam O’ Reily kee gode mae baith kar PK toRnay kee baatai’n hogaa!
Hussain HAqani girgit: you cheater AH, stop fooling people you opportunist!
Anyone in the mood to write response to his stupid article in WSJ?
i didn’t start, it was you who came up with lame ‘jinnah is secularist’ theory. If you can’t face things then better don’t create a topic either or if you are assuming one has to say *YES* to you then you are living in fools’ paradise. If I address you or anyone in posts then it doesn’t mean I am charged up to convince YOU. I know you have your own ideology and I ain’t interested to break it.
I know this blog is visited by many *silent readers* as well so my posts don’t address some particular user(s) anyway. this is how online forum works if you don’t know.
have fun.
UMAIR lahore does have worst Traffic jams, students do clash periodically but jamiat rules supreme, it has phone snatching and a high murder / crime rate. Water does stand there also and there is load shaedding and lights out. Its getting to be a real Metropolis now, in couple of years it will also have what is missing.
ADNAN you passed on a quote by Jinnah to which I responded about his secular speech, the dicussion on which is beyond scope and people have written books on the subject. For me personally Jinnah is not a shining Beacon, so I care less, Whether his ideal was Atta Turk, he liked pork or wanted the constitution of Pakistan to be secular is now insignificant. The bottom line is that he created a mess which we are finding hard to sort out.
Balma, Yep
It’s not Haqqani’s quality only. Same goes with Shaikh Rasheed and same goes with MQM as well. they were against Military( for others, not in reality) in past and now pro-dictatorship. MQM sit with both NS and PP and now they are opposed. So why cussing Haqqani only? This is a national habit of Pakistani Politics.
Hussain Haqqani is now a days stationed in Washington, he started off with Jamiat, then Zia and then took route as described. He is now quite influential, and has a say in quite a few think tanks. Recently, I heard him in an interview resting responsibility on Jamiat for introducing Kalashinikov culture. He now claims to be a progressive writer.
He however is a real influential guy so better watch out.
Adnan,
In a multiparty system, there will always be alliances. These are usually at party level. I expect people to be more honest. My fault. No wonder I still have to work for money. Ghalib kee tarah muft kee nahi’n khaa/pee saktaa!
The WSJ article and Adnan’s link both menton him as having some kind of appointment at Boston univ. He is probably an adjunct professor, because no one will appoint him as a tenure track profesor without a Ph.D.
Anyway, he writes for Wall Street Jrnl sometimes, the most fundamentalist and extremist of the US newspapers. I read it for the news, not for the editorials. Almost like saying I read playboy for the articles:-)
TO me he is acting like Fareed Zakaria and Mansur Ejaz these days. I really feel like responding to his stupid Budnazir-Kiss-Ass article, but everytime I have sent a response to WSJ on other issues, I never get published (letters). This time I will write as Balma. They will think I am French and I will slip through. Some Plan!
LOTA is a person who jumps from one party to another giving due priority to personal interest. Comparing that to political alliances and working relationships is like comparing horse to a donkey.
but everytime I have sent a response to WSJ on other issues, I never get published (letters).
Obviously the way you troll here, a website like WSJ can’t allow it anyway. :-)
p.s: I am kidding
p.p.s: I am half kidding.
“Amir was forced to quit Minister ship just because said on TV that those who offend Muhammad(SAW) should have been killed was not liked by so called secularist Altaf and he ordered him to quit the seat. Where a party leader is so extremist with his OWN BUDDIES then how could u consider them nice with others.”
… why should Altaf not have asked him to quit, if in fact he did ask him? Remember Abdullah bin Ubbi? He used to curse Huzur every day but Huzur even read his Janaza prayer and gave his shirt for him. At least in this case Altaf did the right thing by doing something inline with Sunnah and attempting to present the peaceful face of Islam, something Islam is badly in need owning to the extreme picture of Islam you Mullah types have portrayed to the world so far. Your argument is really a case of ulta chore (Mullah) kotawaal ko daantay.
Now, being a Jahil yourself you may assume that others are Jahil like you and may fall for your stupid argument but in this case Altaf is right.
For those who are not Jahil like you; there are other issues with killing or punishing someone for causing offence, such as who defines what is an offence? One may consider something offensive while another may think it is portraying a fact; one man’s beliefs can be other man’s blasphemy. For instance xtians may think it is offensive of Muslims to consider Jesus not a god but a mere man, but can they attack Muslims because they are offended by Muslim stance? NO.
“Everyone, except those who are ignorant, knows the Holy Quran is the general code of the Muslims(message of Eid to the Muslims in September 1945)
Ironically Jinnah is cursing so called secularists and liberals in his speeches. *grin*”
Actually no. Its Quran that says “No compulsion in faith/religion/beliefs…” and “for you, your faith and for me, mine”…perfect embodiment of secularism. So in fact Quran is supporting Jinnah’s secular view.
Which Quran do you read btw, that does not seem to have above ayyah? Or may be you are blind and deaf, you read but not understand.
Adnan,
I meant a letter to editor at hardcopy WSJ. I hate reading newspapers on web. I was just hoping someone will write a nice letter with chiknee-chapRee talk that will slip thru to WSJ and still make a point thta Budnazir, a criminal, should not be supported by Sami Chacha.
@Reality
“KADS now your secret is out, posing as supporter of Musharraf who has changed his mind, what crap!!”
Here is a lesson is basic english comprehension for your. Read and repeat a hundred times and then see if it percolates into your little head:
Opposition of altaf the terrorist taxi driver has nothing to do with support for musharraf.
Now. Having said that, i will not support anyone who thinks he is above the law. Musharraf has sacked the courts and put his own judges in place. hence, he has lost all support from the majority..including me.
Is he better then benazir and nawaz and altaf? Yes he is. But not at the cost of justice. He needs to restore the judges and uf he does, he will have my support again. Until then, musharaf can go to hell along with Kim il Jung.
KADS the judge may /may not come back, but in his stupidity he might have ruined the one chance this nation had of moving forward in peace. Mush may not survive, BB may or may not ascend to the throne, but the Taxi driver will hold sway, because no power will let Karachi to become an Al-Qaeda base again, and neither do we the MQM supporters, no matter what the cost.
The real terroists will continue to rally behind Jamaat and PTI their conduit being Hameed Gul and a team of sympathyzers in the media. Their goal no real progress in the Northern areas and the continuation of the status quo there, so the Man with long beard roams free.
As for the majority, nobody knows where it is? Do you know why the Chaudhry bros are so confident? because they think that they will easily win Punjab excluding the cities. As Mush gets weaker, there are many show downs in store, starting from BB Vs. Shujaat, the winner will face off with the others. It will be one hell of a king of the hill.
Meantime we the maligned of Karachi will watch the show from sidelines, will continue to work for our people, ready to switch mode, and by now you must have realized that we are not as dumb as you think we are.
Calm down :)
dead can not protect themselves. do not drag Jinnah saheb or those who are dead.
Do we have any LEADER by National consensus who can be a PM or President of Pakistan and really stand up and manage the country.
Can anyone name ONE – Please
- again – Am against any protest by students in respect of current political circus. -
JAMAL right on again! As I have said above get ready for a King of the Hill, while I pray;
“Oh God if there is a God, save our souls if we have a soul”
may e the karachi students ae in fav0ur 0f musharraf, hence n0t pr0testin
@Jamal Shamsi:
“Do we have any LEADER by National consensus who can be a PM or President of Pakistan and really stand up and manage the country”.
Depending upon who you hear from, there will be name(s). PPP supporters will say BB, PML-N supporters will say NS, PMLQ and MQM supporters will say Musharraf, etc. So what is your point?
Again, depending upon whichever name *you* chose to go with, there will be millions dead set against him/her.
So, in reality, it will either be “jis ki laathi oos ki bhains”, or anarchy, chaos, and violence.
Now I will let you in on a secret; and remember this is where you heard it first:
It will be the latter (i.e chaos, anarchy, and violence) and you or your boss, whoever who or she is (pir sahib or the general, BB, or NS), do not have a laathi big enough to stop it.
So, be my guest. Go for it!!!
Khanabadosh :) safely i can translate as NOMAD :)
My vote is for area nazim, mpa, mna, the name & face of a person whom I have seen in my area and i can approach for the issues we all face.
IF there is a general voting procedure for electing PM / President I will be in a dilemma but however I will choose the Better from the worst of evils from mainstream politics.
BE IT ANY 1
BUT for Martial LAW or Taliban – I will always welcome it for 3 year term only.
My vote is for area nazim, mpa, mna, the name & face of a person whom I have seen in my area and i can approach for the issues we all face.
JAMAL you are one clear headed bloke… with no apparent political affiliation / prejuidices and clear insight…keep it going.
KAHANABADOSH though I dont know him but can safely guess that he has no political bossess.
@Jamal Shamsi: I think you know very well that you were not referring to nazims, mpa, and mna when you raised the question. Please read your own words in the original question. You specifically referred to the candidates for PM or President and to managing the country. The clear insinuation was that the general is the only God given gift who is fit to govern Pakistan.
You know very well that the cream of high school grads in Pakistan head for professional studies whether medicine, engg, business, IT, etc, not for Kakul. Is an intermediate pass general, who couldn’t make the cut, the best that Pak can produce for the governance of the country?
C’mon, don’t be a sissy and try to wriggle out of it by trying your hand at vainglorious English translations. You can do better than that.
Check this out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN2-_5B2M8Q
For once only can we forget our differences and protest against the unconstitutional steps taken by a military dictator….from forming a pseudo parliment to unjudicial killing of Bugti,military operation in Sawat, appointing a puppet Chief justice and suspending all civil rights, one man has destroyed systamatically every institution in the country to keep his rule intact. Even if Musharaf is the best (which he is not) his wrong actions should be challenged and accounted for. We have experimented enough with great and pious and amazing military dictators in the past, how about trying out democratically elected imperfect humans for another 60 years??? How about rejecting every leader who looks towards the Army Generals for support and prolonging their rule? How about calling a spade a spade…….even if hurts my interests or that of my community.
1. Karachi is a lot less violent than it ever was. The economy is much better macroeconomically then it ever was
2. Karachiites hate feudals
3. Karachiites hate fundos
4. Karachiites hate BB
that should answer all your questions. Please guys lets stay off the ethinic tu tu main main. Its totally self defeating.
SAIMA Extra Judicial Killing of Bugti? He blew it when his guys attempted an assasination and fired a rocket on the heli carrying Mush….that was the last straw, he defied the state, he could have given arrest and would have become an icon, now all his party members have voted for Mush.
What institution has beeen destroyed? Judiciary was always the most corrupt institution….and it is the main reason why we are in the top 40 corrupt states….BTW b4 Mush we had the honour of being in top 3. The back bone of any country are its financial institutions, which have been re-surrected, re-built and made autonomous. The education institutions are in much better shape than what they were in 1990. in fact our Ph.D’s are now being given international recognition. Parliament though tooti phooty has completed its term…and at least in Karachi, we dont havve an imported police and are not under proxy control, devaluation has worked for this city, you may not like them but we have elected representatives running the show.
I agree there is a lot to aspire to and improve upon, but with peace and patience, chaos will ruin what is functioning.
ZEE these vides are made by the Jamatee propaganda machine, its the same voice that was on the videos after Lal Masjid. This is an organized effort to dis-credit political opponents.
Musharraf Shocked Over Daily Telegraph, Are you too?
Karachi Students are not illiterate like Punjab they know who is doing what for the country.
N.S I.K all are power Hungry i say GEO Mushraff all the way.
And also imp to note the fact whatever these ppl in Punjab do until Karachite & MQM is with Mushraff no1 can bring him down.
Look at N.S & BB both lost Power cuz MQM was not with them this time Mush took the right step by involving karachite real stake holders (MQM) along with him so the assembly completed its 5 Years as Karachi is the Financial Hub of the country.
Karachi Students are not illiterate like Punjab they know who is doing what for the country.
N.S I.K all are power Hungry i say GEO Mushraff all the way.
And also imp to note the fact whatever these ppl in Punjab do until Karachite & MQM is with Mushraff no1 can bring him down.
Look at N.S & BB both lost Power cuz MQM was not with them this time Mush took the right step by involving karachite real stake holders (MQM) along with him so the assembly completed its 5 Years as Karachi is the Financial Hub of the country.
Karachi Students are not illiterate like Punjab they know who is doing what for the country.
N.S I.K all are power Hungry i say GEO Mushraff all the way.
And also imp to note the fact whatever these ppl in Punjab do until Karachite & MQM is with Mushraff no1 can bring him down.
Look at N.S & BB both lost Power cuz MQM was not with them this time Mush took the right step by involving karachite real stake holders (MQM) along with him so the assembly completed its 5 Years as Karachi is the Financial Hub of the country.
Karachi Students are not illiterate like Punjab they know who is doing what for the country.
N.S I.K all are power Hungry i say GEO Mushraff all the way.
And also imp to note the fact whatever these ppl in Punjab do until Karachite & MQM is with Mushraff no1 can bring him down.
Look at N.S & BB both lost Power cuz MQM was not with them this time Mush took the right step by involving karachite real stake holders (MQM) along with him so the assembly completed its 5 Years as Karachi is the Financial Hub of the country.
It is very sad to read all these comments that are supporting particular political parties, particular provinces, particular dictators (Musharaf) and demeaning others.
All you people who are against these protests, i would like to reinstate that the protests are against a flawed system that has lost all working insitutions of the NATION.
To give an example, if tomorrow another dictator comes and puts MQM or karachiites or Sindhis against the wall, will WE KARACHIITES NOT PROTEST?
I totally agree with Zee’s comments and i think it’s high time we stop being selfish insensitive people and think as a nation.
IBA Students disallowed from protesting
From ‘an IBA student who wants to join the movement’
The Administration of IBA has made it very clear that any student found even wearing black a ribbon as protest against emergency will be expelled without a hearing before the disciplinary committee. This “unofficial notice” came after students of IBA made a silent protest against emergency by wearing black bands on their arms and foreheads. Students in Karachi want to be part of the students’ movement but the administrations are not letting this happen.
Link: http://pakistanmartiallaw.blogspot.com/2007/11/iba-students-disallowed-from-protesting.html
IBA Students disallowed from protesting
From ‘an IBA student who wants to join the movement’
The Administration of IBA has made it very clear that any student found even wearing black a ribbon as protest against emergency will be expelled without a hearing before the disciplinary committee. This “unofficial notice” came after students of IBA made a silent protest against emergency by wearing black bands on their arms and foreheads. Students in Karachi want to be part of the students’ movement but the administrations are not letting this happen.
Link: http://pakistanmartiallaw.blogspot.com/2007/11/iba-students-disallowed-from-protesting.html
Which Pakistani Phd. has written a paper of international repute and which university are we looking at? Pakistani degrees were always recognised abroad but only limited institutions had this honour which still is the case. If we have made so much progressed and financial institutions are in such great shape, why are stretches of land in interior Sindh,Balauchistan and other rural areas are devoid of any educational and medical institution.
Democratic govts. get 4 to 5 years to perform along with strong opposition in place…this govt had absolute power and has the country progressed in real terms? especially with the amount of money being given in aid to the country!
Two wrongs never make a right and if Bugti or any other politician was a goon the govt. should have also behaved like one?
Institutions were weakened by the military and civil dictators only……and this has been done once again. who do think will make the system work and build up these institutions, if people will keep supporting a dictator? you think that the corruption will end if a dictator runs our country! Really! Do you really believe that we will progress as a nation under a dictator?
For you knowledge all our current Ph.D thesis are examined by two international examiners plus the scholar has to publish a paper in a known journal to qualify for a Doctorate award. The results are evident just look up the statistics of how many Pakistani students have qualified for Full Bright and other post doctoral, you’ll be surprised,. These doctors have also come back and are working on various projects financed by the govt and international institutions. Projects like setting up of hatcheries and livestock. This kind of activity was un-thinkable before.
Yes, the country has progressed in real terms and there is no doubt about it. From being literally bankrupted by BB/Nawaz nexus when our care taker finance minister Mr. Burki had to use his personal contacts in the Chinese govt to beg them to pay our IMF instalment, the consequence would have been default. Saudia Arab was pitching in to give us free oil. Our govts have always been getting foreign aid, the question is, has it been put to some good use? Ever? Remember Zia’s time when Generals were buying ranches. Nobody raises a finger against Mush viz a viz corruption, this guy has spent half of his tenure in rebuilding, securing our treasury from the looters and now when the country is showing signs that it could launch itself towards prosperity, dark forces of democracy are threatening the whole setup. They know, they cannot win an election, they cannot mobilize people, they cannot offer anything new all they can do now is boycott. Its good to see BB, Nawaz, Qazi, IK, Fazlul Rehman and others all bunched together in a stinking bouquet.
As for Bugti what should have been done…Dear Bugti Sahib we accept your black mail, here is more money. If you start a gun fight then the govt has to respond. The true Baloach Nationalist are fighting a just cause and they dont black mail for more money.
Institutions are weakened by dictators only
That’s again a farce – democratic norms don’t flourish where there is feudalism, in fact feudals use democracy to grab power. In the present lot, I see no party even mentioning this vital hindrance. More than half are themselves feudals and the rest are just a political front for the man with long beard lurking in the north. The solution is build up the middle classes, give them work to do and eventually they will change the system speacially in Punjab. Don’t cut the branch that has triggered this change.
* Its good to see BB, Nawaz, Qazi, IK, Fazlul Rehman and others all bunched together in a stinking bouquet.
**** I hope Budnazir (Benazir – for search engines)stays in Lahore, and does not come back to Karachi. We don’t want her back in Karachi. Budnazir: if you are reading, please stay like a gainday kaa phool in the stinking bouquet. The only place you should go from Lahore is Jail. Pehlay paisay vaapis kar chore aurat, then we will talk.
I was talking to Shahid Javed Burki once in 2001, and made a typical Balma like comment that janaab, default ho jaanay diyaa jaataa Pakistan ko, taakeh, yeh sub chore uchakay (Budnazir, NoSharif types) bhaag jaatay. When the kitty is empty, what will be so charming about Pakistan for these crooks. Well, Burki Saheb is an economist (i.e. way smarter than me) type so he didn’t like my idea, just smiled, and started telling me how bad that would have been for Paksitan’s credit rating etc.
I guess my suggestion was a loose-loose proposition. The win-win suggestion is to put these crooks in jail, and have 20 years plan for education, population control, industrial progress, innovative farming etc. Lets have 20 year emergency plan for PK. Budnazir, go to jail.
Pakistani students have always qualified for the post graduate scholarship, its nothing new and since I am connected with the education and human resource development, I have an idea of what these students have achieved and how many are products of govt. funded institutions ( 4% of GDP for education and medical). Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy and Dr. Q.Isa Daoudpotta have written enough on this subgject!
During Nawaz the country was facing economic sanctions for detonating the nuclear bomb and when did I suggesst that Nawaz or BB should replace ‘The Dictator’…..thats upto the people of Pakistan to choose.
Feudals are given protection by the army….Check out the lands awarded to the army Generals in Balauchistan…American ranches will look smaller in comparison.
If Mush can send the whole Judiciary packing then why can’t he abolish the feudalism….he has all the powers then whats stopping him….If Nehru could do it in India why can’t a dictator do it in Pakistan!
Why are the Balauch nationalist fighting when such a sincere dictator is sitting at helm of affairs? why hasn’t the development reached the corners of Sindh and Balauchistan in this economic boom?
Army needs feudals to make sure that it gets 70%of the GDP in return of the protection provided to them and thats why every time there is an attempt to restore a democratic rule, it is sabotaged. They killed Bugti because the skeletons would have come out of the closets!
I would want to live and die in a democratic Pakistan and would not trade it for a golden cage….we all have our priorities mine is an ideal…your’s a reality!
I find it extremely funny (ironic?) that people like fazlu and hussain ahmed, and other mullah types, are asking for removal of ban on private TV channels. These kambakhts were complaining about the same TV channels until yesterday claiming that such channel were spreading vulgarity and nudity (fuhashi and ouryaani). In fact most of these stupids, and most of their philosophical ancestors, have declared TV and photographs haraam. oh yeah, loud speaker was haram too. And, now you can’t keep a mulla away from microphone and any photo opportunity.
Doe mullaao’n may murghi haram: yeh bataao fazlu, TV jaiz hae yaa nahi’n?
The biggest enemies of freedom of speech are asking for lifting of ban on media. Alhamdullilah. Dikhaataa hae khudaa bhee kaisay shaahkaar….well I don’t rememebr the actual verse.
Just to clarify, I ‘am’ against any ban on media, as long as fuhaashi and ouryaani is moderate:-) Of course, I rather see nicely and / or thinly dressed women from various camera angles than bearded bay-moonch mullah Sami-ul-Haq or burqua-posh haseenah Farhat Hashmi. Similarly, there is an immediate need for land reform in Pakistan, and so on. But, this does not mean that I am stupid enough to support ‘Budnazir kee vaapsi’ part III.
Benazir: Only place you should be allowed to go to from a khosa house in Lahore is to a khota jail in Lahore!
Saima I am not talking about Post Graduate, the term is Post Doctoral Programmes & Studies. these are the terms that our universities could only dream of a decade ago and now almost every university in pakistan has an active programme with Pakistani Ph.D’s working in the West and coming back with real projects on hand. There is a lot of difference in what Hoodbhoy says and what Dr. Att-ur-Rehaman has done viz a viz higher education in Pakistan.
Feudals are the ones that carved out this country and their interests have always been taken care of by subsequent Pakistani govts, be it military or civil. The leftist movement fighting against these interest groups was hijacked by Z.A. Bhutto and given a death blow. Now to embark on such enterprise you need absolute and committed dictatorship and Mush presides over a parliament, and contrary to popular belief he is not an absolute dictator but needs the support of his generals as well as very powerful elected politicians to move forward. So to even consider Mush or any body else conducting land reforms – forget it. As for fruits of development, just travel on the coastal highway and ask the people, you will get a better picture. The Baloach Nationalists are not doubting the development work but their concern is the share there province will get when these projects start bearing fruit. This again is a question of National debate, which was started by this govt. a provincial autonomy bill was ready and would have been one of the last bills to be presented to this parliament. But now it seems that would have to wait, due to the mayhem since March.
Yes, sanctions were there when Pakistan exploded the bomb, but Nawaz Sharif was an economic genius, when the treasury was low he distributed Taxi’s and the banks were awe struck. Plus when confidence was low he ceased the foreign currency accounts and our banks died. He was a person who didn’t have any clue as to what he was doing. He could be a mayor of a municipality but the office of PM – give me a break.
If it was left to his devices the whole nation would have been driving Taxi’s with no passengers on board.
Its not only you but in this present day and age who does not cherishes, democracy, freedom of speech and other human rights. Its obvious we have divergent view on this, I would suggest you read the following outstanding post by a Lahore Blogger,:
http://lahore.metblogs.com/archives/2007/11/the_sense_commo.phtml
There is a very funny (a bit pro-mushee) article on Mushee in today’s WSJ, page A24.
Basically, WSJ’s editorial policy is anti Pakistan, and therfore they support Budnazir wholeheardtedly or anyone else who can screw Pakistan. In fact, after WSJ’s purchase by News Corp (the owner of Fox News), it won’t change any time soon. So, I found this article by Bret Stephens a bit interesting, and of course amusing.
BLAMA can I have the link or its been censored?
Sorry missed – A24, got it now.
Good news fro MQM supporters. Imran Khan was beaten by Jammiat in Punjab University and then handed over to police.
http://jang.com.pk/jang/nov2007-daily/14-11-2007/up18.gif
News does not mention jammiat but everyone knows which organisation has hold in PU.
پاکستان تحریک انصاف کے سربراہ عمران خان کو اس وقت گرفتار کیا گیا جب وہ ایمرجنسی کے خلاف طلباء کے ایک مظاہرے کی قیادت کرنے کے لیے وہاں پہنچے تھے۔ اس سے پہلے جب عمران خان پنجاب یونیورسٹی پہنچے تو جماعت اسلامی کی ذیلی طلباء تنظیم اسلامی جمیعت طلباء کے کارکنوں نے اس وقت ایک کمرے میں بند کر دیا اور ان سے مطالبہ کیا کہ وہ فوری طور پر یونیورسٹی سے چلے جائیں۔
BBC
It is not a good news that Imran Khan was beaten by IJT ghundaas. Imran Khan should quit politics and devote rest of his life to charity work. He is good at that. Why disgrace yourself by working with/like Budnazir and NoSharif?
when I said Post graduate it was a reference to the initial stages a student goes through before qualifying for any doctoral or post doctoral or various research programs. If initial stages are flawed the end product can never be of quality and thats why I asked you of any paper of repute written by a doctoral student from a Pakistani university not just papers written in pursuit of a program.
The HEC, operating securely under the protection of a dictatorial regime, has projects that can baffle a thinking human being or for that matter anyone with an iota of common sense….you don’t need to be a doctorate of finance or education for it.
For example;Pakistan’s ambitious $4.3 billion project to create 9 Pak-European world-class engineering universities staffed with European faculty and administrators…… sounds wonderful even if expensive – Pakistan plans to pay the full development costs, recurrent expenses, and euro-level salaries (plus 40% markup) for all the foreign professors and administrators. Still, presumably the large presence of European professors teaching in these Pakistan universities would ensure high standards of teaching. The official starting date of the first university (French) was listed as October 2007.
Because of the dangerous security situation – a fact that planners could have easily anticipated -the French seem absent from the French university. As of the beginning of March 2007, not a single faculty member from France, including the all-important head of the university, had joined. Even if the Europeans come, there is not enough Pakistani faculty for all these universities. Nor are there well-prepared students.
Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy wrote and I quote…. “universities are all about thinking. Thinking needs mental space – in other words, freedom. Without personal and intellectual freedom there can be no thinking and hence no ideas, no innovation, no discoveries, no progress. Our real challenge is not better equipment or faster internet connectivity but the need to break with mental enslavement, to change attitudes, and to win our precious freedom.”
Every one is so quiet about Imran khan incident because it is done by jamatiis and happend in Lahore……I wonder people would have a same reaction if this has done by APMSO. Where are Doctors, Adnan, MB and others why dont you guys say anything about this ghunda gardi?????
IJT is the real problem in Pakistan and they are the one who are terrorist and been terrorizing pakistan since the birth of the country.
You cannot even enter in PU if you did not get permission from IJT. Everybody is allowed to enter KU even PSA exists in KU and APMSO…
ACcept the truth and say it.. The biggest problem in pak is JAMATI iSLAMI not MQM or APMSO.
Imran Khan incedent at LMB; http://lahore.metblogs.com/archives/2007/11/imran_khans_det.phtml
Imran Khan incedent at LMB 2;
http://lahore.metblogs.com/archives/2007/11/khans_arrest_th.phtml
SAIMA Agreed on all points, but you are talking to a guy who has been a second generation student activist for the left and then APMSO. Fighting for freedom, humming tunes by written by Faiz and sung by Iqbal Bano. I have seen betrayal and made my journey from what is ideal to what is real. I am sure that revolution will never materialize in this country and even if it does, it will bring in nothing but chaos. Write now I am all for the Turkish, Malaysian and Singapore model of giving people work and working for their prosperity, as the middle classes become stronger the rest will follow. Universities need to be open, students get opportunities to travel and expand their horizons. The thing that has been neglected is giving true sense of history to our nation, nobody is doing that, even the independent media has also miserably failed in this regard. Right now if you go about teaching the real history in our campuses their will be a rumpus, American flags and Mush effigies will be burnt and all hell will be let loose. You dare not even teach music, remember what happened at PU. If today if you grab a young student and ask him why / how Pakistan was formed the most likely answer would be, “Pakistan Islam ke liay bana thaa” what a joke.
So coming back to the topic, this nation is not yet ready for Reality Shocks, what is needed to be done is to administer small doses of truth to counter the toxicity that has developed over the years, the key is taking it slow and not bring the house down, otherwise, you will go no where.
who is asking for a revolution? Just call a spade a spade…. You joined various political parties and learned a lesson from it! Thats what education is all about….don’t you want that right for every Pakistani? ….They can choose, then regret and then choose someone else….thats democracy and accountability…thats how nations get educated and choose right leaders for themselves….thats What Faiz wanted for his people and thats what you and I want for ourselves.
singapore (Heavily) and Malaysia have invested in eductaion and development of their citizens……you think that the army and a dictator will take you closer to that model of refined civil society…..army is not even trained to question authority which is the very essence of a civil society. Truth never creates anarchy and clashes , its the lies and compromises that leads to darkness.
Oh, I didn’t know that Singapore has democracy! must be sleeping all my life;-)
BALMA you got me there, Singapore is not a democracy.
SAIMA again I agree, but in the present scenario everybody pro/against govt wants free and fair election, ironically its for the first time that the pro govt parties are more confident in going to the polls, and it seems that there confidence is not misplaced. So the issue should be to ensure that happens. BB got guarantees in this regard, but what she does when she lands, she gives a list of political opponents making them responsible for the explosion in her rally. The climate is again confrontational, so what to do next, emergency is here to stay and people are not coming out. Imran Khan makes judiciary the issue but gets beaten up by his own allies, no way I am gonna travel that road.
The best option now is to hold elections and let the news media be free again, so the people can be entertained. Both of these things will happen. What will not happen is the restoration of the CJ and resignation of Mush. That’s the reality we will have to accept in order to move forward.
Saima: I don’t really want Reality_Check’s kind of education and ‘learning from experience’ for anyone in Karachi, or in Paksitan. phaDay baazi karnee hae, quit school and show some action. Don’t waste everyone’s time in school. I don’t want NED and KU students to burn tires on University Road, even if it leads to the development of leadership skills. It delays my trips to Malir. What I want is for KU and NED, and perhaps, SSUET, Hamdard, and AKU, to produce 100s of PhDs in maths, physics, immunology (can’t even spell it right, I guess), philosophy, and psychology. They can ask questions, but no pathrao, jalaao,ghairao. No such bullshit should be tolerated in Karachi’s universities. Never again.
“Every one is so quiet about Imran khan incident because it is done by jamatiis and happend in Lahore……”
Posted by: imran
Nothing like it…biggest demonstration against IJT in PU in the history.
PU witnesses largest ever anti-jamiat protests
http://lahore.metblogs.com/archives/2007/11/largest_antijam.phtml
Keeping in mind IJT has very strong hold in the university and this demo is a very courageous step.
On the other hand even MQM has not come out strongly against this as it is allied with General who in turn is allied with JI.
Seems the only hope we have left is with the civil society which, for the time being, appears more active in Punjab and Islamabad areas.
JI is allied with mushee?
ooper say to Kaji baRee dhamkiyaa’n daitaa hae!
Kyaa kaji bhee Budnazir kee tarah ander say mushee say millaa hua hae?
“Seems the only hope we have left is with the civil society which, for the time being, appears more active in Punjab and Islamabad areas.”
I am merely trying to epxlain facts as I see them on media and not looking to pick a fight.
Exactly BALMA! Insaan upnee bewaqoofion se hee seekhtaa hey. If even a single precious life is lost for a stupid cause, nobody is gonna bring that back and nobody can give justice to a dead body. In my times things were different, we were doing what we did, because there was no hope, there were no opportunities and merit had taken a back seat. Now things are different, kids have opportunities, there are so many skill sets and there are countless carrier horizons not just doctor or engineer. So our kids should remain safe and not losse it all to rev up somebodies leadership.
yar u people talk 2 much.
More talkers less doers.
I never propogated PHADEYBAZI or anything of the sort in any of my posts! Universities, schools and colleges should be able to teach the principals of social justice……all modern educational theories make it the very essence of education….constructivist theories believe in people learning from their experiences or else one goes out of the classroom equipped with a degree but not knowledge.
Please watch the movie “LIONS FOR LAMB” …. you’ll understand what I mean when you answer the question at which the movie ends!….I would love to know your answer to the question!
NO TALKING
Imran Khan is a “doer”……why is he under detention???? Establishment will prosecute him on the charges of treason….him a traitor…what a joke! Another slap in the face of law and civil rights….will be interpreted as the VICTORY OF MUSHARAF SUPPORTERs!
عمران کی گرفتاری کے خلاف احتجاج
پنجاب یونیورسٹی میں طلبہ نے متعدد کلاسوں کا بائیکاٹ کیا اور ایک جلوس نکلا گیا ہے۔ جلوس کا آغاز پنجاب یونیورسٹی کے نیو کیمپس کے لاء کالج سے ہوا۔
طلبہ مختلف ڈیپارٹمنٹ سے ہوتے ہوئے فیصل آڈیٹوریم کے سامنے اکھٹے ہوئے۔ انہوں نےہاتھوں میں عمران خان کی تصاویر اٹھا رکھی تھیں اور مختلف رنگ برنگے پوسڑ بھی بنا رکھے تھے جِن پراسلامی جمیت طلبہ اور صدر جنرل پرویز مشرف کے خلاف نعرے تحریر تھے۔ ایک پوسڑ پر لکھا تھا ‘ہم جمعیت نہیں چاہتے’۔ طلبہ و طالبات کی بڑی تعداد نے منہ پر کالی پٹیاں باندھ رکھی تھیں۔
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2007/11/071116_imran_rally.shtml
MQM should try to take advantage of the gap..its offices are only a mile away from PU.
SAIMA please I like your ideas and your zest, but don’t bring Imran Khan into this. Sure he had a lot of potential but it some how got lost in the cloud of Hameed Gul and Qazi.
He didn’t listened to Mush and got beaten up by his own allies, can he seriously blame anybody else? The art of leadership in Pakistan is knowing when to be rigid and when to be flexible and on top of it you certainly need to distinguish between your friends and enemies. I seriously don’t know what to make of him; I know he is not corrupt but is he capable? Will he bring in confusion or stability? Will his attitude change or will he be arrogant as usual? These are big question marks. I am currently waiting to see what will be his party’s official position regarding their joint struggle against Mush, right now they are going after Jamiat in Lahore, it surely is a mess. See that’s another problem, when Imran is in jail I don’t even know the name of the guy who is No.2 in PTI, he was very successful in a team sport but he never was a team player.
Architect of Kargil operation a “national savior”…architect of Shaukat Khanum cancer hospital…. a “confused, arrogant traitor!”
Musharaf provided safe passages to murderers and looters like Altaf and Nawaz and still is a stabilizing force for the country. Imran Khan who demanded education and justice for the common man is an anarchist!
Imran should have listened to Mush who has compromised with the likes of BB, chaudries and Altaf…..but asked a man of principles like Mr. Daudpotta to leave the governorship of Sindh because of disagreement on the water distribution scheme between the provinces…..
Do/can/should You really feel proud of yourself when you try to justify Musharaf’s actions and associate with someone like him?
Architect of Kargil operation a “national savior”…architect of Shaukat Khanum cancer hospital…. a “confused, arrogant traitor!”
Musharaf provided safe passages to murderers and looters like Altaf and Nawaz and still is a stabilizing force for the country. Imran Khan who demanded education and justice for the common man is an anarchist!
Imran should have listened to Mush who has compromised with the likes of BB, chaudries and Altaf…..but asked a man of principles like Mr. Daudpotta to leave the governorship of Sindh because of disagreement on the water distribution scheme between the provinces…..
Do/can/should You really feel proud of yourself when you try to justify Musharaf’s actions and associate with someone like him?
Architect of Kargil operation a “national savior”…architect of Shaukat Khanum cancer hospital…. a “confused, arrogant traitor!”
Musharaf provided safe passages to murderers and looters like Altaf and Nawaz and still is a stabilizing force for the country. Imran Khan who demanded education and justice for the common man is an anarchist!
Imran should have listened to Mush who has compromised with the likes of BB, chaudries and Altaf…..but asked a man of principles like Mr. Daudpotta to leave the governorship of Sindh because of disagreement on the water distribution scheme between the provinces…..
Do/can/should You really feel proud of yourself when you try to justify Musharaf’s actions and associate with someone like him?
Again who is saying that IMRAN is anarchist. As for Musharraf he has to deal with the stuff that we send to the assemblies. It is always very easy to criticise him over this, but when it comes to any crises whole lot of pressure is put on him to talk to the elected representatives. As for safe passage, who could have turned down the Saudi Prince when his country was giving Pakistan free oil and we were at the lowest ebb, beggars can’t be choosers. As for the others, you never get conviction from our legal system, all you get is zamanat, delays and stale evidence, so what to do, again its very easy to criticize. As for Daudpota and water distribution issue, it must have been a major difference of opinion on how to tackle it, BTW the current CM of Sindh Arbab Ghulam boasts on every occasion that how he solved this matter and plugged all leakages. I don’t know how much is true but lets not tangle in petty issues.
I am not in the business of creating devils or saints, and neither am keen on being proud or ashamed. It is very easy to demand, we can even demand paradise but its very difficult do something positive especially in a country like Pakistan. I am not the one to degrade a person who has done beyond expectations and remained resolute, in fact I feel indebted. Even if he is un-ceremoniously dislodged I will never use a bad word for him.
It was really great to read through all of your thoughts, although I’m not going to conclude any thing over here from what y’all have to say as that is your opinion. But regarding those who say that what’s going on in Lahore, Islamabad and rest of the areas where the demonstrations are being held, I would like to say one thing. What’s wrong in that?
Democracy isn’t just the rule of the people that is its meaning in a much closed context. In reality the true meaning of democracy is to say and respect what others say; I hope y’all feel what I’m trying to speak over here. And that’s what we are practicing over here aren’t we. We all contribute our thoughts and hope that they’d be respected; indeed they are abused, refuted and subjected to harassments.
Because of our prejudices and cultural stereotyping we have created divisions among our selves. Today the only reason why others empower us is that we are divided and lack that patriotism that is most needed. Today the citizens of Karachi are staying back at home is because they have nothing to complain, at-least I don’t I was out the other night and every thing seems normal to me, so why would I care? Why should I stage protest for this guy once our hero for winning the only world cup for Pakistan? And the most confusing question, what in the world was he thinking before getting into politics. He already had his name in the history books. Everyone knows about the dirt that Pakistani politics has throughout subjected to coups, assassinations and all forms of political maneuvering.
Don’t you think that what that one person intends to do is purely democratic? Thinks and decide, and please don’t inter-text your decision or the reading process with the past of that person. What has happened to him is that right?
“The foundation of a human being is his intellect; and a man without intellect has no religion.”[Prophet Muhammad]
karachi students don’t need to protest. Karchi has probably benefitted the most under Musharraf. Granted Musharraf is no saint but he is still the choice of a lesser evil. Who is an alternative to Musharaf? BB & nawaz Sharif have already been tested. And honestly Imran’s personal life is such a mess how do you expect him to keep the country in order if he cannot keep his own home in order.
@Saimar
Imran’s personal life is out in the open, unlike your darling dictator’s or any of the other politicians…….His life is not a mess but a very clear example of what one has to give up in life to follow one’s mission and dream.
He has not taken from Pakistan as much as he has given back to it and its people.
You keep looking for options……..someone who could take place of the corrupt politicians and military dictators but won’t accept Imran Khan because he is different form the rest of the herd(absurd logic).
He is straight forward and feels the pain of the common man. Doesn’t portray himself as ‘holier than thou’, accepts his past and knows how to make amends in himself…..a man who is so honest,open to change and has such strength of character is not fit to be a counrty’s leader…….maybe you are right he is too good to be our leader…becuase we will never make him proud of us as he has made us proud of him…..A man of such high self-esteem could never be a leader of people with no honour and courage!
One of our major problems as a nation is that we are hero worshippers. We tend to think our leaders are or should be infalliable. What we need to do is to be practicle & rational. What are our alternatives right now? With all the crazy taliban types going around slaughtering our forces, do you want a strong reign or let every one do as they please? And who says western democracy is flaw less..Iqbal has a cool verse which says it counts the quantity and not quality of people..any way I think for right now Musharaff is the best alternative & I am NOT a fan of Musharaff!
@SaimaR
“One of our major problems as a nation is that we are hero worshippers.”
correction:
we are turning into a nation of zhombies ruled by vampires. Where are the heroes that we have ‘worshiped’ in the past 20 or 30 years? Do you know any?
Different situations need different leadership styles. Quaid e Azam probbaly wouldn’t prove effective today as he was a States man effective in dealing with the British raj. Today’s chaos needs an army man.
btw by hero worship I meant making these no good leaders larger than life where as the true hero is a sharif guy making an HONEST living feeding & taking care of his family in this day & age