Vigilantism: Good or Bad?
I trembled when I read the newspaper yesterday.
“KARACHI, May 14: Three suspected bandits were first ruthlessly beaten up by enraged people of the area and then set on fire on the main Nishtar Road as police stood by watching the crowd let the suspects being burnt to death, witnesses said.” LINK
I agree that what the bandits did was wrong, but does that mean they should be burned to death? Even the right and lawful penalty would not be death.
Living in Karachi, a major part of me says that such criminals go around unpunished without any fear of the law (since our legal system is in complete shambles), so it is about time for the citizens to take the law into their own hands. Part of me says that this is wrong. I don;t know what to think.
What are your comments?
3 things that i keep on saying here and everywhere else and could be found in posts and comments:-
1. Our society is going backwards
2. Lawlessness is the new law
3. We need a surgery, medicine wont do
and by the way who told you its vigilantism ?
Its simply people taking law to a ride. The bandits should have got what they deserve but if they have got more than that, its INJUSTICE. Now you know why those lawyer from the lawyers movement say everything in society starts from JUSTICE?
This also shows the growing frustration among common man and since he cannot find any place where he could hope for justice for those bandits, they decided to do it their way.
And this is just the beginning . . .
Although I completely understand beating the bandits but burning them afterwards was beyond imagination.
At a same time this shows desperation and frustration from people – since the law order enforcers are willing to do nothing.
Another point to the story is that all three bandits are Balochis from Lyari (if you guys remember my previous posts). Lyari needs a serious operation as it is officially thanks to Naveed Gabol is a hub for blue collar criminals.
people have become so emotionless and cold that they simply see wrong being done by others and won’t stop them, on 9 th April when lawyers were locked up and building set on fire some of them stuck managed to raise hue and cry from the balcony but sadly nobody even cared or dared to rescue them in time coz those barbaric terrorist were still active busy torching the vehicles parked on the road.
@barristerakc Lyari needs a serious operation as it is officially thanks to Naveed Gabol is a hub for blue collar criminals.
While the rest of Karachi is handed over to Grand terrorist Altaf Dakait i am hearing that Rehman Dakait have been entrusted with and made responsible for ‘improving’ law and order situation in Lyari (geo news discussed the issue last night)
kudos to ppp’s geniuses for coming up with this excellent idea of giving free hand to those very same dakaits who are responsible for worsening law and order situation in first place..
so AKC you want ‘serious operation’ conducted against both the Dakaits or just one? i am sure in that case you would drop your demand of conducting any operation at all.. we karachiites have already seen how ugly and horrific operations can be for innocent public
you can find vdo on youtube as just search karachi and sort by date
@ d0ct0r: bro you should start your political party and may be cast a vote for yourself some day, i seriously recommend that you take a brake and go to a vacation or something and get MQM & Altaf Hussain out of your head for once!! dude either you are seriously obsessed or sick… i wonder if you blame Altaf Hussain for that tyre puncture you had last month!! get a life dude.
how can anyone just torch people and stand there to watch them die!! i dont have sympathy for the dead guys as they had something coming, but our nation is becoming a volcano, Very alarming situation people are trying to seek justice from whatever they can do while the Cheif justice and his side kicks throw on "phoolon ke haar" and riding the rooftops of their land cruisers
i am afraid we are moving towards a bloody revolution……volcano is about to erupt
look at that guy dancing and others enjoying the show .. how low can our society go.. simply sickening
these robbers were reportedly overpowered and shot while fleeing, once they were down after being shot they were beaten,although injured badly but still alive next they were doused with petrol and torched to death..
burning and torching of public transport is also quite common phenomenon after any accident, instead of arresting and handing the culprit driver to police and impounding his vehicle and dealing with him according to the law of the land, mob aka awami rad-e-amal would come on bikes out of nowhere pour petrol on the vehicle and set it ablaze and conveniently run away from the scene
Narrated Ikrima
Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn ‘Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, ‘Don’t punish (anybody) with Allah’s Punishment.’ No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, ‘If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.’ "
Source: Sahih Al Bukhari
What ever happened should not have happened and I agree that all this was barbaric but I cant blame the ppl of Khi fully. What else do the authorities expect them to do given the fact that street crimes and looting has become an every day matter. Plus these ppl dont even care, they loot and then even kill the person. Karachiites have become frustrated and thus this was their way to ease off their frustration. I only hope that the dacoits get some ‘Ibrat’ from this and thus their morale gets shattered.
@ doctor.
Dear friend muzz is right, u desperately need a vacation to get MQM and Altaf from ur head.
MY ONLY PROBLEM .. Y IT TOOK KKARACHI MEtro bloggers to take it up after 3 days… we here are after ehich place is it .. or other sometimes very nonsense stuff.. but when came the real isssue of ACTUALLY WHAT"S WRONG WITH US THE KARACHITES .. NOTHING but only today…
Strange thing is is the role of the media to cover the news and see it how it develops.. is there no human side of the over 100 press reporters on the site where the dacoits were burnt … to try to stop the people doing wrong… the press people were there again to capture that business man who was shot few days ago and died .. begging for help and people did nothing.. but they were busy capturing him in different angles … !!! i hope we get "EDHI NEWS NETWORK" . may be things change afterwards!
Doctor Sahab – which language do you understand? Although I have serious doubts about your mental status since you are so obsessed with one political player’s ignoring everyone?
a) A criminal is a criminal regardless of his ethnicity, political affiliation or connections – like I had pointed out before “a mobile snatcher would not ask you ‘which party do you vote for?’ before snatching your cell phone”.
b) As a practicing criminal lawyers and someone who’s experienced enough to pass judgments (at least on my subject) – there’s no doubt that Lyari is the main hub and safe heaven for criminals of different parts of Pakistan and a definite no-go area for the police.
c) There is a huge increase in the number of Balochis involved in decoties, street crime – a claim which is backed by ground level police officers.
ppl say that the general public is frustrated, i say they watch too many movies where the hero seeks revenge from the establishment and zalim loag
i was just talkin to a guy who happens to know the family which was involved in this particular case and the way he talked bout it, i wz shocked.. educated ppl can actually leave the door of rationality in a matter of seconds. The difference between a jahil and parha likha jahil..
no single person or a group of ppl should be allowed to take life of any human being in any case. destroyin property of yr fellow citizen and causing loss..n then ppl start braggin bout politics and religion
sum times we say that no it is not us, we cant be that barbaric, we cant do what happened when benazir wz shot…but then you come across such news where u r burnin yr fellow beings..and then one has to question own self on the moralities and principles that we live by..
I wonder if sum one read today’s dawn..it really is a saddening situation. n ppl say being patient is impossible..
ask yr self what is and is not possible
Today same thing was repeated in North Nazimabad near Farooq-e-Azam Masjid , two bandits snatched mobiles and cash from commuters in bus and were running away when people alarmed and alerted others on the road,these robbers were cornered and apprehended and were beaten and doused with petrol and set on fire,police posted at nearby imambargh reached the spot and tried to rescue those burnt robbers but instead of backing off the anrgy mob set on fire a policeman as well , both the robbers and policeman were shifted to Abbasi Hospital ,robers were then shifted to Civil Hospital where one of the robber succumbed to the injuries and expired..
@muzz n saim honestly tell me one thing, do you get offended by Altaf bai and his gang’s terrorism or do you JUST get offended and hurt when someone exposes or highlights their terrorism and corruption..
after reading about this incident in the news….i remembered that a few months back when my last cellphone was stolen…. and a week later i saw another person having his cellphone snatched…. i had a thought that maybe ill gather a group of friends …get armed and licensed… and patrol kh-e-ittehad…. leave a guy on the street talking on the cellphone…. and wait for the criminals to approach him…… i wouldnt wanna go further wid my story ..as i later thought it was stupid … but it was an idea in a mind that has almost been pushed to the edge…. a frustrated mind… a mind that feels insecure and utterly useless when looking down the barrel of a gun….i soul so deeply scarred by this crazy land that issues of morality are jumbled into a weird mess of right and wrong in an already immoral society….
the worst feeling i got was when i was with my sister being chased by 2 bandits on a motorbike… they chased me for over 20 minutes… TWENTY MINUTES…. at that point i didnt care about my mobile..wallet or car… all i was thinking about was my sister…. GOD FORBID IF NETHING happened that day….. I WOULD TRY TO THINK OF SUMTHIN WORSE THAT BURNING THEM ALIVE… as i am SURE no policeman or police station would help me later… they wouldnt even come if i screamed at them…. (it has happened before)
i am a doctor… but my past experiences have driven me to a point that this news brings a smile to my face…and i couldnt help but think that they shouldve hung the bodies from the newly constructed bridges….call me sadistic… or voilent…or a parha likha jahil….but when u face what v karachiites face every single day…. when v step out of our houses…. u will know… i used to abroad and used to laugh at the stories about karachi… NO ONE can understand life here until he spends more than 2 years here….
this is just my opinion….and im am entitled to it like ne1 else…. i probably would never do sumthing like this…but then again… i probably havent bin pushed as far as the people of NISHTAR ROAD…..
btw..i rad in the news today… that police had captured the occupants of the area and have filed FIRs against them…..
im sure if these same police officers were approached for reporting of a stolen phone… or posessions… they woul be much less interested…. im SURE most of u who live in karachi know what im talkin about….
Maybe they are so active now because the MOB bosses are nudging them to stop this from getting out of hand….
our society is degrading fast,people are really frustrated and loosing hope fast when they see that terorist ruling them can easily get away with murder and other criminal activities despite being caught live on tv (12th may/9 april) , other criminals and gangs are also encouraged by this fact that hardened criminals are in power and its banana republic so nobody would be able to touch them as those in power themselves are too busy looting the public.
11 people involved in that inhumane incident on Nishtar Road were arrested,area residents protested and blocked the road by burning tyres, area’s Police SHO was suspended, so today in North Nazimabad police showed up early and tried to disperse the mob but the mob was too enraged and even burnt a policeman who was trying to rescue these bandits from wrath of mob,policeman reportedly received minor burn injuries and is safe
@barristerAKC
a) A criminal is a criminal regardless of his ethnicity, political affiliation or connections – like I had pointed out before “a mobile snatcher would not ask you ‘which party do you vote for?’ before snatching your cell phone”.
Agreed, ethnicity is never an issue with me infact i am disgusted by those who think on ethnic lines,on the other hand funny thing is that you yourself love classifying criminals according to their ethnicity and cultural background ‘sindhi armed gangsters .. " "Balochis involved in decoties..".
stereotyping against all sindhis and balochis aren’t you? just quote me one instance where i might have said some thing like ‘muhajir terrorist from MQM burnt and murdered innocent people after locking them up.’
b) As a practicing criminal lawyers and someone who’s experienced enough to pass judgments (at least on my subject) – there’s no doubt that Lyari is the main hub and safe heaven for criminals of different parts of Pakistan and a definite no-go area for the police.
again agreed,but lyari is not the sole hub of crime and criminals, other hubs are scattered all over karachi(sectors/units) and they work under the patronage of governor house so whole karachi is safe heaven for them and they can ‘work’ with impunity,police can’t even think of touching them
c) There is a huge increase in the number of Balochis involved in decoties, street crime – a claim which is backed by ground level police officers.
again ground level police officers say a lot more then that,you don’t want to hear what they say about your beloved MQM,its leadership and its workers.(they regularly express their frustration that they’re working under bunch of criminals and they have to take orders from sector and unit criminals and are humiliated/harassed and have to face their wrath if they don’t follow their illegitimate orders)
@hbrehman doctor sahib i guess not much fuss would have been made had these people simply just shot these robbers and handed over their dead body to police,their barbaric and savage act of setting them on fire once they were down and caught is simply sickening and horrifying and is setting a dangerous precedent (two separate cases reported so far)imagine people having disputes with others blaming them of robbery or wrongly accuse them of any crime and beating them up and burning them to settle scores
(maybe barrister sahib can enlighten us a bit about legal implication if some one shoots down a bandit in self defense)
these robber would get violent and brutal too , now they would not take much chances and simply shot down the victim before leaving the crime scene so that they could not make any hue and cry and alert others resulting in their capture
Doctor sahib lyari has a strong vote for ppp and whats ppp doing to stop them from kidnapping and seizing arms …
And look what ppp(corrupt regime) has done they are supporting one gang of terrorists to take out another …how would you justify that? Wont that be state sponsered terrorism?
i know now again you will brag about how mqm pulled over 12 may ahahahaha
And yea what you said about ground level police thing, Doctor dude let karachi Police be represented by the locals and see the charms!!!!
Aik banda police main batao jo karachi say ho …koi interoir ka hay koi punjab ka hay koi falaan kay hay
hbrehman, what u faced is by no means sum things easy to forget i am sure
yes we are living here in karachi and that is why we get concerned by these incidents
as doc has just pointed out, its barbaric, i can understand no one wud pick a pistol and shoot the robbers, its far easier to doze em in petrol an a match does the trick, several ppl are involved n no finger prints no issues
thing is that frustration is increasing day by day, as far as the comment of "you would understand if you would have faced it"
i v faced the gun and i v met far more insane lookin "gentlmen" who looked more like butchers, but then, whts the point if i start thinkin and acting irrationally??
n yea with ref to my earlier post, i wz refferin to Dawn an the small write up by a Pakistani who has expressed disapointment at being a Pakistani and is ready to denounce the nationality..
this is Talibanism…..the worst form of human behavior
@kashifi83 i think you missed my comment in which i mocked PPP’s logic of supporting Rehman dakait to ‘improve’ law n order situation in Lyari.. terrorism by other side does not justify your own terrorism.. what’ll be difference between you n them if both are involved in same heinous and brutal crimes(i am simply outraged when some MQM sympathizer tries to justify 12 may massacre by referring to 27 dec carnage )
in lahore 4 bandits enter a mobile shop pretending to be customer interested in buying expensive mobiles,once all the expensive models are displayed in front of them they swiftly collect all mobiles and cash and try to run,3 of them manage to escape while 4th is caught coz is bike failed to start,people beat the crap of out this robber but hand him over to police in one piece WITHOUT BURNING him despite police taking 90 minutes to reach the crime scene.
@alam you are accusing karachiites of Talibanism? Altaf bai will commit suicide upon hearing this..
Doctor Sahab,
a) Well I do have a soft-corner for MQM as a political party / force and the is because ‘I think MQM is the only force which represents my ethnic group’ – what ever else they do – I condemn it.
b) On Lyari – while Rehman Dakait is openly flourished by Nabeel Gabool & PPPP – Arshad Papu is MQM(s) man.
c) There(s) no doubt that economic and criminal migrants (and I am pin-pointing to the minority of these migrants) are involved in the criminal activities – a claim which is accepted even by non-karachite law enforcement officers.
@Doctor (on lahore story)
First of all …. there are many cases in karachi, in which robbers were caught and beaten up and then were handed over to police ….. very recently in my area (Malir Halt) 2 mobile snatchers were caught, were beaten up by the people and handed over to police.
Yor are simply blaming that in karachi only ‘JAHIL’ ppl live.
Let me explain you y the burning incident happened.
The main reason behind all this is LACK OF SINDH POLICE INTEREST in LAW and ORDER SITUATION IN KARACHI. And the situation would remain soo till the police is not handed over to the locals. ( As 70 % of policemen here in karachi are punjabis). Please Mr Doctor i know u have MQMophobia but I am saying locals not MQM mind that …..
The other reason number of cases in karachi as compared to lahore are much much much greater ……….
And mostly ppl involved in such crimes are from ethnic minority in karachi. (Lahore have no such issues)
Now when ever a victim goes to police they ask for RS 500 for an FIR. and even then you get a "Kachi parchi" . Some times they ask you to buy a calender for Rs 1000. And even then for months no action is taken.
Now what else do you expect from the ppl " the real victims" todo. They have to take the law in their hands. No body loves to doso …. but considering the situation …. according to people this is the only ways out "Terrorizing the terroist"
Btw whom you defend i still can;t understand …. or what problem do you have with karachi or the people of karachi ……. I can;t understand ….
I would request the authorities to atleast ban Doctor ……
i wouldnt want doctor to be banned … to say the least…the DEBATE going on here is very interesting and knowledgeable…
Dont forget…thats what we are here to do…discuss our points of views….
no matter how biased they are….
what one person can do is try to changed another’s biased view through discussion….
khair… are SEVENTY PERCENT policemen in karachi really punjabis?… does any one actual figures?
waisay i really dont care what ethnic group they represent… all policeman will do the same when i comes to law and order in karachi….
one thing ive noticed here is…
y did v need RESCUE 15 when v had police….
Y did v need rangers?
NOW y do v need muhafiz….
matlab launching a new force everytime shows that all the older forces are sooo useless… that instead of increasing the budget of POLICE and making them stronger with better pay (which mite cause them to at more morally…which one tends to do when he gets to eat three times a day through his salary…as all people arent born thieves and liars) they rely on making NEW forces….
as i see it…. jiska jahan wasta parhta hai…. woh us wali force ko bula leta hai apni personal wishes ke liye…. may it be rangers aur police… by personal wishes i mean… unlawful activities…
crime to yeh control kartay nahin …warna aaj public yeh kaam nah kar rahi hoti…..
if u come to think of it….
if there woz literally no crime in karachi.. would the govt be allowed to finance these new forces again and again?….
moreover… these forces are more like armed gangs than nething esle… because the last time a person open fired at my friend in broad daylight in from of EXPO CENTRE… where 10m away a police mobile and rangers were standing …. NO ONE DID NETHING>…. 3 DAMN SHOTS and the guy just drove away!!!!
Lack of Local Representation is one of the major problems in Karachi Police – which even Shoaib Suddle (an outsider – agrees).
Here’s a short solution:
The Irish Constabulary Model
As Britain expanded its empire, a policing model deemed ideal for colonial rule came to be identified. The model was based principally on the experience the English had while they tried to enforce order in Ireland (which rejected rule from Westminster) through Irish Constabulary established under the Constabulary Acts of 1822 and 1836.
As pointed out by Mawby (1990), Irish Constabulary sought legitimacy at Westminster rather than among the indigenous population. It was an alternative to an army of occupation with no community mandate whatsoever. On a structural level it was highly centralised with a recognised chain of command from the individual constable, through chief constable to inspector general, who in turn was responsible to chief secretary and lord lieutenant.
Another significant characteristic of the model was that it firmly established the principle that the constable was answerable to the chief constable rather than the law, the chief constable himself being responsible to central government.
On DNA DATA BANKS:
DNA databanks and the potential use of such databanks for behavioral genetics research is one way where samples used in the databanks could be used for research into a “crime gene.”
Robbers were caught in lahore but the ppl just beat them and handed over to the police WITHOUT BURNING,
I am afraid that this is wrong, they DID try to burn him and one even got a match box and can of pertol but the police was able to save them. Check the follwoing news from dawn:
http://www.dawn.com/2008/05/19/nat32.htm
Anyways, this is not justified but then again as someone said above, our country has become like a volcano which is boiling to erupt anytime.
Many ppl have said that we sould induct the locals so that this problem can be solved. I think by local it should be a person of that specific locality in which the police station is present (irrespecive of his ethinicity) and not from just another corner of Karachi.
@ doctor, Neither am i supporting Altaf bai and his gang’s terrorism nor do I get offended and hurt when someone exposes or highlights their terrorism and corruption. Nobody is denying their terrorism but your issue is that u hold a specific party responsible for anything which goes wrong in Karachi (or may be Pakistan)which is quite childish. MQM is responsible for many problems in Karachi but not for all of them (it shouldn’t be forgotten that JI and ANP too have their street power in Khi). But the problem here is that I someone tires to disagre with you then u start labeling him or her as MQM supporter.
@barristerack,
I am an urdu speaker too but that doesn’t mean that I should start supporting MQM just b/c of my ethinicity. We can’t deny that MQM has use terror tacticts due to which we Urdu Speakers have become bad in the eyes of other communities in the country (I my self have suffered this a lot when even i come in contact with someone from outside Khi, I rememeber that last year a taxi driver from Punjab taunted me when he came to know that i was from Khi as according to him we were the supporters of a terrorist party). We have been used a lot by both MQM and Jamaat e Islami in the past and present and i also agree that PML-N and PPP are least bothered about the urdu speakers and Karachi (PPP has never done anything for the Sindhis let alone Karachi and remaining Pak while for Nawaz Pakistan starts from Lahore and ends at Islamabad) but its high time that we should look for some new face and till the time we dont find any new face, its better that we dont vote. Finally its high time that we should give up this stupid word "Mohajir" as none of us is a mohajir but we are Pakistanis now.
Well people here know very well that even if they just handover the robbers to police after overpowering them, the police is gonna let them free against some bribe on the next stop. So they decided that its aint gonna happen & act that way. Although I m in no way appreciating the burning episode, but i believe that a some more "genuine" cases like that may force the authorities to do their job + keep the opportunist snatchers @ bay
[…] mobs of people have beaten up or burned the caught criminals. Whether this is good or bad is a separate debate altogether and maybe at the moment not as important as the gaping loopholes in our institutions […]
drama continues people attempted to burn 4 bandits in Landhi but police reached the spot in time and ‘rescued’ the robbers, in Surjani people shot and injured a passerby while in pursuit of a mobile snatcher.
no matter how much depressed and demoralized people have become they should not take law into their own hand,those involved in the first incident should be given proper punishment so that it should deter others thinking of repeating the same thing again. burning down public transport is quite common phenomenon and perpetrators involved easily manage to run away from the scene without being caught but here they are burning down a living thing,an inhumane,unimaginable and deplorable act(maybe they’re getting inspiration from 9 April’s heinous act in which mob aka awami rad-e-amal burnt and killed innocent people just to ‘teach them a lesson’ and were never caught and till today roam scotfree with impunity)
@Doctor
These are getting inspiration from 27th Dec and aftermath. On 9th April only 11 innocent ppl died. On 27th and onwards these f__king dakoos killed 44 innocent ppl, all of them were hiding to save their lives and eventually were killed by these dakoos. No dakoo even then was arrested.
I think you were one of the dakooo at that time … trying to hatch some atm machine :P…… that’s y u never condemn the 27th dec incident.
This is the reply of the ppl. If dakoos could do so y can’t we. They know police did nothing on 12th May, nothing on 27th till 2 Jan nothing on 9th April.
So finally ppl had taken the law in their hands.
For those of you who say that burning these dacoits alive will teach other to-be bad guys a lesson: there’s a difference between killing, punishing or burning alive. Up to the point of simple killing (e.g. shooting) maybe I’ll stand along with some people who have had past experiences–almost everyone in my family except me had such an experience too. But burning alive proves that a segment of our society simply wants to satisfy their lust for violence and find an outlet to vent out their frustrations resulting from the overall socio-economic condition of the city. Right now these people burn alive dacoits, then police, then politicians/big figures, and then eventually common man fighting common man. Do we want to come down to that level? I hope not.