Bakra eid arrives
Hey hey its Eid Tomorow, Eid ul Adha to be specific and as we Karachites go around buying up what we can with four feet attached (at crazy prices) I thought it would be good if we could all remember the following suggestions.
- Keep thy neighborhood clean people, less offal more sanitary stuff, blood on the sidewalks makes for a distasteful and smelly sight.
- Do remember the spirit of the occasion, it is better to distribute meat to those who cannot afford to eat it than have fancy bbq’s for friends who eat it all the time.
- The price of the Qurbani “DOES NOT MATTER” although we as Karachites have a habit of going “bhai kitna ka hay” it is really not important, what is important is that it is accepted in the eyes of god.
- Qurbani is not mandatory, except for haj. So for those of us who could not afford it this year do remember it is just a “if you can” part of Islam. There is also no stipulation which says one animal per person or any other such rubbish.
I would also like to wish each and every one of you Karachites and my fellow KMB team a very happy and scrumptious Eid. Eid Mubarak people, let the slaughter begin!!!
dear author, i hope you have done all your research on qurbani before you wrote "it is just a “if you can” part of Islam".
if any muslim is gulled into not doing a qurbani because of your statement .. you’d be responsible for it some day!
if any muslim is gulled into not doing a qurbani because of your statement .. you’d be responsible for it some day!
I believe he meant the sahib e nisaab part
Eid mubarak to all :) have a nice and peaceful eid.
I heard that at some places the goat sellers have installed credit card (POS) machines, is that true?
If you buy from the credit card than that will be Haram because of Sood on it.
http://air16.blogspot.com/
Eid Mubarak everyone
Yes they do accept Credit/Debit cards at VIP mandi.
It is Baqr-eid, where Baqr is for cow, not Bakra-eid as in goat.
Does anyone know the difference between k and q in Urdu anymore?
Urdu toum loge sahih nahi’n boltay, angraizee toum logo’n kee third class hae, can’t believe how bad every thing is with the education you guys get these days.
Eid Mubarak.
And, Sood is not haram, you idiots!
Eid Mubarak to Every one
Yeah just like Zana is not Haram…..
Eid Mubarak
uncle balma kindly enlighten us all..
eid mubarak to everyone and I do everyone *hugs*
Alama Balma,
According to Islamic Jurisprudical View, Interest is absolutely “illegal” and prohibited.
In Al-baqarah verse no.275 (Quran),
"Those who devour usury will not stand except as stands one whom the Satan by his touch has driven to madness. That is because they say, "trade is like usury", but Allah has permitted trade and has forbidden usury" acha “usury” is basically a Latin term for “extensive interest”. I remember all sort of academic debates with my Jewish & Arabic friends on the topic and they were never ending….
Now Riba really means to increase and there are two types of Riba I) Riba Nasi’a which is basically taking money on “loaned money” II) Riba Fadal which is taking something of superior quality in exchange and vice versa…..
I am not religious but from the old school and consider, “any sort of riba, usury absolutely – haram” not just from an Islam POV but “common sense” – just like I do not eat Pork & Ham because of Islam – it’s because I find it disgusting!
Now some statistics, my firm filled atleast 43 “insolvency” & bankruptcy applications worth couple of hundred million in last six months apart from a record number of bankruptcy petitions this year in Pakistan then any other year put together.
Continued…
@ Faisal K: " Qurbani is not mandatory, except for haj."
Sir, correct me if I am wrong but I think Qurbani is not mandatory for Haj either. It is not part of Haj rituals.
Today a friend of my friend who is based in Kazikistan informed my friend who in turn informed me that in Kazikistan people do the Qurbani of a pig as well. Now that is really interesting. I intend to probe this matter further in due course till then Daroogh bar gardane ravi ast.
@ balma on December 8th, 2008
Strictly speaking you are absolutely correct but let me add as follows:
1. I know the correct word is Baqr-eid and suppose most other educated people also know this. However, Bakra-eid is a kind of colloquial which most of us use in our informal writing. I use this colloquial even in semi formal writing since I find it a very appropriate and more expressive word for the event. I also feel that Baqr-eid may not be the correct nomenclature of this event. The correct word for this event is Eidul Zoha or Ediul Doha depending on how do you pronounce ‘Z’ in arabic; as zawad or dawad.
2. The issue of difference beween ‘q’ and ‘k’ is another issue which has nothing to do with Baqr-eid or Bakra-eid. Normally Ahle-zuban pronounce it correctly irrespective of their formal education. Non-ahle-zuban particulary most Punjabis are guilty of pronouncing both as ‘k’ irrespective of their education. You may be surprised to know that even a person like Allama Iqbal pronounced both as ‘k’. It is with some great difficulty that I have come to pronounce both these letters correctly. I suppose one learns the difference between these two sounds at home before one gets to school.
3. What irks me more than the pronounciation of ‘q’ and ‘k’ is the pronunciation of some common words like ‘Mulk’ (country), ‘Farz’ (compulsory) etc. Our politicians (including some Ahle-zuban) are particulary guily of this. Now I am not sure in what category will uou place them; educated or uneducated. I certainly put a person in ‘uneducated’ category who does not pronounce the word ‘Ghalat’ (wrong) correctly and pronounces it as ‘Ghalt’.
Would like to hear more from you on this subject when you are done with your Bakra or Baqr as the case may be. In the mean time Eid Mubarak and more than that a good Quisai and a good Bakra Mubarak to you :-)
bhayon kia fayda hua itney laakh janwaraon ko "qatal" karney ka, haN?
@ balma on December 8th: " And, Sood is not haram, you idiots!"
I reckon in some form it is and in some form it isn’t. Supreme court decision in this regard has not been implemented by the govt. It is a moot point which certainly needs resolution. However, calling someone an idiot for holding a certain opinion particulary on this subject be ‘Haram’ as far as I know. Take it easy.
@ kabirdas,
Most of these words are taken from Arabic and Persian and not only Punjabis but also "ahl e zubaaN" pronounce them wrongly.
Let me give you some examples here,
It’s Fard(compulsory) not farz as you wrote.
It’s ramadaan not ramzan
It should be "ard e Pakistan" not "arz e Pakistan".
The correct word is Omaid(hope) not Umeed
A persian will read the very first line of Pakistan’s national anthem as"pok ser zamin shod bod", whereas an "ahl e zubaaN" read it as "pak sir zameen shaad baad".
I could give you such umpteen examples but the point I’m trying to get across is that normally when people incorporate words of other languages into their own language they also pronounce them in their own way, in a way in which they find them easier to pronounce. We didn’t have such a letter as "qaaf" in the Persain, Pashto, Punjabi or Hindustani languages that’s why we also find it hard to pronounce them the way the Arabs usually pronounce them.
regards
kabirdas, speaking of which (remember, our meeting of the "hawks"…) it’s getting close as “balma” jee is coming soon – kya irada hai bhai? (contact me on email)…
Vakeel Sahib,
Balma is always high and is always coming!
KabirDas,
My panga was not necessarily with q or k this time. It was with the word for cow vs goat. that is gaayae vs bakraa, that is baqr vs bakra!
And, lets stick to adhaa and daroori in Saudi Arabi. In Paksitan and India it is aZhaa and zaroori.
Zaraa urdu boul kay to dekho in ‘d’ vs. ‘z’. You will get headache, allahnakhwastah!
Finally, Imam Ghazali and Late Dr. Hamidullah Khan of Paris have said that interest on money is OK. All these Islamic (so called) banks in Pakistan don’t do any profit loss banking…as far as I know. They do fix price + mark up…which is same as so called haram sood. But, I am willing to accept so called Islamic banking if it can get Muslims of Pakistan (and other countries) out from abject poverty.
Neem Hakeem: zyaadeh maskharay pun kee zaroorat nahi’n:-)
And here is just for you sweety: Altaf Hussain, toumhary favorite, nay boulaa hae, sood haraam nahi’n hae:-)
@ odin on December 9th, 2008
This is one question which I have also been asking for past many years without any faithful giving me a satisfactory answer. However, this morning my sister gave me an answer which I found somewhat satisfactory. She admitted, in so many words, that she did the Qurbani for the happiness of her children rather than the happiness of God as such. But then like me she also believes in using Aquil rather than do the Naqil without thinking.
Let us wait and see how some real faithful answers this question for us.
@ odin on December 9th, 2008
Sorry, I do not agree with you about the correct pronunciation of words like Fard/Farz, Ramadaan/Ramzan etc. Both pronunciations are correct. In Arab world in certain parts Fard is pronounced as Farz and Ramadaan as Ramzan. Like Haj which is also pronunced as Hug in certain parts (I believe in Egypt) of the Arab world.
By the way I mentioned Punjabis in regard to pronunciation of ‘q’ and ‘k’ and not in regard to the correct pronunciation of Farz and Ramzan etc.
You are right when you say: " A persian will read the very first line of Pakistan’s national anthem as"pok ser zamin shod bod", whereas an "ahl e zubaaN" read it as "pak sir zameen shaad baad". This is the way some of these words are pronounced in Persian and in Urdu. Their pronunciation is that of Persian and ours that of Urdu though the words are the same. Both are correct. Here the difference is not like that of ‘zawad’ or ‘dawad’.
The fact that there is no letter ‘qaaf’ in Punjabi is news for me. I will look into this matter.
@ barristerakc on December 9th, 2008
I don’t have a very good memory but I couldn’t forget the proposal for such a meeting. Shall get in touch with you by email. Thanks.
@ balma on December 9th, 2008
My personal view is that sood in certain forms ( banks, insurance companies etc, loans for business etc) is ok and in certain forms (personal loans where the money is not invested in some business etc) it is not ok. Anyway I would not like to argue too much about this issue since I have not studied this issue in reasonable detail and depth.
Hazrat Balma & Kabirdas,
I think Bakra Eid is called Bakra Eid instead of Gai Eid because of the religious and cultural sensitiveness of Hindus in United India and later in Pakistan; the word just stuck like “Gandhi Garden” the current Karachi Zoo in Karachi. – Just an observation!
On Sood and Soowar –
There’s another school of thought about Riba defies clear definition like other major issues.Saudis`whom most Pakistanis consider the standard-bearers of Islaim,have named it “service charges”.Why is it that we can`t find any rational end of this debate?Ignorance,bigotry or vested interest seem to stand in our way which makes it totally unislamic.
Kabirdas Bhai, the pig sacrifice in Kazakistan is hilarious!
* The fact that there is no letter ‘qaaf’ in Punjabi is news for me. I will look into this matter
**** Kabirdas baiTay, It is not only Panjabi, but all Sanskirit based languages lack not only ‘qaaf’, but also zay, zaal, kh as in khwaja, ghain as in gharara – Balma is thinking of beautiful legs right now!
Urdu, while a Sanskirit based language, has adopted letters and sounds from farsi and arabic. Panjabi in Urdu/Persian/Arabic script is not widely written, but I guess Muslim Pnjabis have adopted such sounds when they write in Urdu/Persian script.
In facts, Muslims who write Urdu in devnagri script (some people refer to it as Hindi) have also modified that script to write such words as khwaja, ghulail, zarina….otherwise, you will just have to write gulail and jarina.
The modification is by using a dot (nuqta/nukta) with gaaf ( or jaa) to make ghain soun, and with jeem (or jaa in Devnagri) to make a z sound.
For example, the big park on Gandhi Marg (road that goes to Hazrat Ganj shoppign area: Lucknow’s Elphinstone Street area) is called Begum HAzrat Mehel Bagh, but spelled as Begum Hajrat Mehel Bag in Devnagri. Obviously, the use of nuktas to spell such words is not widely adopted in India.
As if common Hindus or even common muslims knew that baqr was cow in Arabic.
Vakeel Sahib, kiss dunyaa may rehtay hai’n?
Bhayo’n, Quran was not even translated into Urdu until late 1700’s by Shah Wali Ullah’s son or daamaad.
But, talking of sensitivities, beef is refered to as, or used to be refered to as, baRaa gosht for exactly this reason.
I remember something from Jagit Singh,
“ Pak gaya hai shazar pe fal shayad,Phir se pathar uchalata hai koi“.Or “ ek parwaaz dikhai di hai,Teri aawaz sunai di hai. “
Thus Urdu mix Hindi or Urdu written in Devanagari is not a new concept. I think Devanagari is used to broden the scope of writings?
I am still a novice but a fan of Chauthi (whom my great grand father forced me to read instead of Stephen King and John Ghrism novels as a teenager).
I remember reading, “Chauthi ka jorra” and “Nanni ki Nani” ….and ofcourse, “lihaf”….she was a great women…it’s sad that people of my age and that too Ahal-e-Zuban thinks of Ismat Chauthi as a “man”…such naivety!!!! Shame, Shame…..
Anyhow, she was one of the best devnagri writers. Her audience was both Hindi Speaking & Urdu Speaking..…I remember going to Ahal-e-Zuban functions in London and majority of the Ismat Fans were Hindi Speaking …… what is the difference between devngri & hindustani?
@kabirdas
I don’t know if in some Arab countries the letter "dwaad" is also pronounced as "zey" but you’re right about the letter "jeem" which is often pronounced as "gaaf" in Egypt, "G"amal Abdul Nasir must be a very appropriate example.
The Persians pronounce many Arabic words differently, like ramzaan instead of ramadaan, and because we have adopted most of these Arabic words directly from the Persians we also pronounce them as the Persians used to pronounce them.
I said that initially there was no such a letter as "qaaf" present in the Iranic and Indic languages before the Arab conquest and their long rule (esp. in Persian and Afghanistan) that has left a deep cultural, lingual and religious impact on the conquered.
Why not donate the money you are going to spend on the "Baqr" or "Bakra" to a good cause like Edhi, where it will be put to better use. You can always buy meat from the market and eat it.
But then again, how will our neighbors know, how wealthy we are if we do not slaughter an animal on Eid.
Devnagri is the script.
When Urdu/Hindi/Hindustani is written in that script, some people in India refer to it as Hindi.
Among the heated comments, Eid Mubarak Karachi :)
With Love from Isloo!
@ barristerakc on December 10th, 2008
1. Look, the correct word for this event is Eidulzuha or Eidulduha. Both are correct. Baqr-eid, Bakra-eid or for that matter Gai-eid or Camel-eid are all colloquials and as such on equal footing. I have no qualm in saying that if in Kazikstan they do sacrifies pigs, there is no reason why the colloquial there for it can’t be Pig-eid.
2. I agree with your observations in regard to sood.
3. The pig sacrifice in Kazikstan is hilarious but a serious matter at the same time. It puts Islam in grave danger. We, Pakistanis must do something about it:-)
Cheers
@ balma on December 10th, 2008
1. Thanks for the information about the charterstics of various languages.
2. Only a few hours back I happened to meet an Ahle-zuban lady who is not only a medical doctor but also a Phd in Hindi. She teches Hindi at NIML at Islamabad and also reads news in Hindi on Radio Pakistan. I discussed some of the things with her which are under our discussion here. The meeting was very brief and I could not discuss with her the whole range of issues weighing on my mind in this regard. However, she agreed with most of my views on this subject.
3. Hey, what types of legs are you thinking about right now ?? I am sure on this Eid day you must be thinking about Bakra’s RANS only:-) You should have clarified this !!
Long time back when I landed in America for the first time I went to a KFC joint and ordered a piece of chicken. The lady behind the counter suddenly asked me what would I prefer—-leg or breast ? The lady was bit perplexed why it took me some time to answer this simple question which wasn’t such a simple question from my perspective:-)
@ balma on December 10th, 2008
a. Is it correct to assume that in the beginning Mulla had objected to the translation of Quran in any other languge ??
b. Is it correct to assume that the first ever translation of Quran was in Sindhi language ??
@ barristerakc on December 10th, 2008
Sir, is it Ismat Chuthi or Ismat Chughtai ? The one of ‘Lehaf’ fame was certainly Ismat Chughtai as far as I know!
@ balma on December 10th, 2008
Sir, beside the script would it be correct on my part to say that:
a. Urdu is Hindi with lot of Persian, Arabic and Turkish words instead of Sansikrit words written in Persian script?
b. Hindi is Urdu with lot of Sansikrit instead of Arabic, Turkish and Persian words written in Devangari script and spoken on Door Darshan.
c. Hindostani is mixture of Urdu and Hindi as defined above written in Persian or Devangari script and spoken by a common (Hindoo) man on the street or in Indian movies.
Would appreciate an inpiut by you on this.
barristerakc:
Sir, people taking Ismat Chughtai as a man is understandable. Can you please tell me why do people after hearing the Yousuf and Zulikha story the whole night in the morning ask the question about the gender of Zulikha :-)
Kabirdas,
Unfortunately, Kazakistan – post-Boorat the movie (ALI-G) is in the firing line like Meera….
It’s interesting and disgusting at a same time that some years back when a Syrian friend claimed how HYENA MEAT IS HALAL? I researched and found couple of hadiths….
Eating a hyena’s meat is halal… (Sunan ibn Majah, 4.3236)
Muhammad permitted the eating of hyena meat… (Sunaan Tirmidhi, 830)
Islam prohibits Pork meat, Blood, Fanged beasts of prey as per the Sunnah (carnivorous) animals with the exception of most fish and sea animals and yes (I found out that later)that “striped Hyena” Arabic name:Al Dabea (an omnivore) and a special kind of hyena is considered startlingly, HALAL ….a bit more of a research on the topic and it makes sense since Striped Hyenas is almost extinct and were found in Middle East & Pakistan ……
*correct me please!*
LOL…valid points…it’s like Tasleem, Tanveer, Anjum (genderless names)….
I was referring to Ismat Chughtai. Ismat was bold enough to broached the topic of lesbianism for the first time. I personally loved Lihaf not because lesbians turn me on but it was an interesting read. I have in my library Lihaaf’s English translation, “the Quilt”. I think I read somewhere that Ismat Chughtai was in favor of printing Urdu in Devangari to save the language from extinction. May Allah rest her soul in peace and embrace her no matter what she thought of Him…the mullah’s hate her …she will always be remembered as a keen observer of the households from a viewpoint as one of them!
KabirDas,
It is quite possible that Sindhi transaltion of quran was available much before Urdu. Also, Sindhis were the first to be exposed to Islam so I will not be surprised.
Your definitions of Urdu/Hindi/Hindustai all make sense. Mostly, no one in India speaks or understands All India Radio’s or DoorDarshan’s so called Hindi. Nobody speaks that kind of language. They speak, in Dehli Lucknow etc, the langauge we speak in Karachi.
check out URDU on wikipedia, they got pretty extensive research material there!!
@ barristerakc on December 11th, 2008
I am afraid I am not too knowledgeable about such matters. However, when one makes some such statements I do use my head and see if it makes sense or not. If it does I accept it. If it doesn’t I reject it. For a Fatwa on this kind of thing I think our fundo friend Adnan Siddiqui may be the right person to get in touch with.
As far as I know Hyena meat is not forbidden in Quran like pork is. Thus if it is palatable and eaten by other human beings (muslim or otherwise) I will eat it otherwise not. By the way once I ate a dish of raw horse meat mixed with exotic spices in Paris which was considered a delicay. It was good but nothing to write home about. I have been eating lot of sea food served in expensive restaurants of the west which I feel a Mulla may not approve of. Actually I give more weightage to the recommendations of modern day dieticians rather than to the decrees of dieticians of many thousand years back.
Please note pork is not prohibitted as per sunnah as such. It is forbidden in Quran in categorical terms unlike drinking. I suppose I am half Muslim like Chacha Ghalib admitted before the British major. (what was his name?). I drink but don’t eat pork if I can help it. However, there is one thing which I will not drink or eat at all cost and that is the blood and flesh of POORS which we tend to do without much ado.
By the way the sacrifice of pig in Kazikstan also reminds of the fact that in Azerbijan and many other Central Asian Republics while downing a drink (gulping Vodka in one go) they do not say Cheers or Skol etc. What they say is ‘Allah o Akbar’ after downing the drink which, honestly speaking, may not be an inappropriate thing to say.
@ barristerakc on December 11th, 2008
When Oscar Wild was being tried for his book ‘The Picture of Dorian Gray’ the prosecuting lawyer asked him if his book was immoral or not? I don’t remember the exact words of his reply but he said something to the effect: A book is neither moral or immoral. It is either well written or badly written.
I have read all the works of Oscar Wilde including ‘The Picture of Dorian Gray’. This was, in my opinion, his best written book. By the way you wouldn’t find anything obscene or ponographic in it though its theme was based on homosexual feelings.
That is what my opinion about any book.
We are basically hypocrites. We would not like to admit or discuss perverted behaviour in our society as if it doesn’t exsist. The following example will illustrate how we look at certain things. Say a man takes the liberty of putting his hand on the thigh of a lady in some public place.
If she is an American she is likely to say: Don’t do it. I don’t like it.
If she is British she is likely to say: Don’t do it. It is not proper.
And if she happens to be a sub-continental lady she is likely to say: Don’t do it. Koi dekh lay ga. Such a response (don’t do it somebody may see it) we often see in our movies.
I will not like to dwell about Ismat Chughtai’s fate in the next world since my comment on this will open up another pandora’s box. Suffice it will to say that she is more likely to get a much better reception from God than these Mullas, the preachers of hatered among fellow human being, are ever likely to get.
@ Faisal
Sir, may I remind you of my observtion of 9th Dec and request you, as an editor of this post, for your clarification whether or not Qurbani is a mandatory part of Haj.
Kabirdas,
Saying allah-o-akbar when you are happy is quite appropriate. I usually remember God when I see totally beautiful women! I feel that God must exist.
And, this putting hand on thigh business…bayvaqoof aadmi – never just put it. Move it.
Also, all the three responses are hypocritical. Different cultures have different ways of saying the same thing. When she is saying it is not proper, of course she means ‘It is not proper because koi dekh lay gaa’. When she says It I don’t like it, she means exactly the same thing ‘I don’t like it because koi dekh lay gaa’.
And, why stick to women: Balma khoud itnay sharmeelo hai’n, that I feel awkward holding hands in public, khaas taur say agar beevi ka haath nah ho! Balma aisee situations may nazrai’n jhukaa kar chaltay hai’n keh koe dekh naa lay – with the other woman, I mean!
And, lastly, please don’t say things against our sexy desi women. Balma will defend a desi woman against any other women.
Now Kabirdas Sahib there are many relaxations offered by the Hanfi school, e.g., consuming alcohol while living amongst non-Muslims. So you can practice “When in Rome….” Philosophy….without being “guilt-conscience”!!!! you sounded like Bhutto when he publicly accepted that he is an alcoholic and said “atleast I don’t drink people’s blood”…..quite correctly. Speaking of Halal & Haram, I know some of my cousins and friends eating pork back in UK & US and although I didn’t go for pork (except once and that was Irish Pudding), I eat HARAM chicken & beef but that’s another topic apart from “Haram” kamaiii….could someone enlighten me as to if “kissing” a woman on her lips is Haram or not?
Speaking of homosexuality, how could one forget Hazrat Sarmad Shaheed – who had no equal in his Islamic knowledge and virtues…? (please read: Ruqa’at e Sarmad or Epistles of Sarmad – I got one in my library)….
Who so lost in love with a hindu boy from Thatta that he forgot his own self and business….and reached Delhi in nakedness and later Aureangzeb summoned Hazrat Sarmad to his court and asked “why do you roam around naked?” he kept quiet and when Sarmad was asked to recite kalimah as per his habit he recited “there is no god”…inquired as to why he is doing this Sarmad replied he has not reached the spritual station of affirmation yet. If I read full kalimah in this state I will be telling a lie….!
The Mullahs decided that this action of his constitutes as blasphemy and that repentance was necessary. Sarmad refused to repend. And death penalty was passed…and when the executioner came near him Hazrat Sarmad smiled and said, “may I be sacrified for you!”
After his martyrdom cum beheading the words, ”There is no god but Allah” were heard from his mouth thrice. Not only did his severed head recite the kalimah but it continued to praise Allah Almighty for some time afterwards.
Hazrat Sarmad shrine is beneath the Jamia Masjid in Delhi
I am not a big fan of Sufism (although being one from the family) but the point is hypocracy of the religionists and society….*honest, it gave me a chill while writing the piece about Sarmad*
BTW, there’s another story
I hear from my dad that about thirty years ago there was a mad man who used to run around naked in the bazaar at pindora in rawalpindi, mouthing obsceneties and fliging excrement at the people ………. when he died, people buried him by the side of the road and planted a few black and green flags .- it is now a bonafide mazar …………..
@ balma on December 12th, 2008
LOL
However, because of lack of experience I thought ‘desi sexy woman’ is perhaps an oxymoron. Or may be the desi bundies who are sexy hide themselves behind hajab and that is why we don’t see them around. And that is why it is one of the reason or perhaps the only reason that I am not pro hajjab.
Oh, Balma, please also tell me if it is not just a myth that:
"Husn khood batab hay jalwa dikhane kay liay"
Mein nay to at least desi husn ko jalwa choopatay hee dakha hay
And if there is some such Husan where to find it. And don’t give some such crap as the beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder.
@ barristerakc on December 12th, 2008
Most interesting and a very well written account. Getting bit late now. Will get back to you on this tomorrow Inshallah.
Good night
Kabirdas sahib,
Hate to make this sound obvious, but women decorate themselves to be appreciated. Your shaer is quite appropriate.
To me, the sight of a beautiful lady dressing up is the most sexy….the way they prepare themselves. Agar sath may sitar baj rahaa ho tou – Balma Khushi say mar nah jaatay agar aitibar hotaa…or whatever…I can hardly remember any poetry.
@ barristerakc on December 12th.
In regard to your first para I would like to quote my Guru, Bertrand Russell who in his essay ‘ An Outline of Intellectual Rubbish’ goes on to say:
" Modern morals are a mixture of two elements: on the one hand, rational concepts as to how to live peaceably in a society, and on the other hand traditional taboos derived originally from some ancient superstition, but proximately from some sacred books, Christian, Mohammadan, Hindu, or Buddhist. To some extent the two agree; the murder and theft, for instance, is supported both by human reason and by Divine command. But the prohibition of pork or beef has only scriptual authority, and that too in certain religions. It is odd that that modern men, who are aware of what science has done in the way of bringing new knowledge and altering the conditions of social life, should still be willing to accept the authority of the texts embodying the outlook very ancient and very pastoral or agricultural tribes. It is discourging that many of the precepts whose sacred character is thus uncritically acknowledged should be such as to inflict much wholly unnecessary misery. If men’s kindly impulses were stronger, they would find some way of explaining that these precepts are not to be taken literally, any more than the command to ’sell all that thou hast and give to thepoor’."
This passage, you will find, also contains the answer to your question about kissing a woman on her lips. Going by human reason it is ok. It may be ok even going by our sacred book provided the female is your wife.
I have heard of Sarmad Shaheed but do not know much about him. After reading your comments I intend to read more about him. I am sure I will find him by googling for him. Now you may or may not know another Sufi poet of Punjab called Shah Hussain. He also seems to have fallen in love with a Hindu boy. He had also changed his name for some reason. I wonder if Shah Hussain and Sarmad Shaheed are the same person. Chances are they are. Anyway I will find out more about it soon.
I wonder if the story narrated by your father is that of Lal Shah. He was a Sufi type of person who after some chilla kashi lost his mind or you may say became a majzoob. His conduct was also like the person your dad has described. He belonged to Murree. He was a very well known and well revered person. When he died a mazar was built for him. An Urs takes place on this mazar every year. Please ask your father if he is talking about Pir Lal Shah of Murree.
@ balma on December 12th.
I think Omar Khyyam has portrayed your feelings well when he said:
A book of Verses underneath the Bough,
A jug of Wine, a Loaf of Bread—and thou
Beside me singing in the Wilderness—
Oh, Wilderness were Paradise enow!
Balma Bhai, Kabir is a simple soul. For him a jug of wine is the first priority if not the only priority—-and ‘thou’ is his last priority if at all it has to be priortised. This priortisation by Kabir is based on his vast experience of life. You are still too young to know what is what.
Good luck to you.
Kabirdas, what? I thought I was the senior citizen of KMB?
Please get in touch with.
I will send your Omar Khyyam verses to couple of babes, number baRhaaney kay liyae….no no, not wife. Get out of here!
I meant kabirdas, get in touch with vakeel.
You might have been the senior citizen of KMB till Kabir Das came on the scene. Not any more.
Will get in touch with our vakeel tomorrow Inshallah!
great! itnay barray barray kay darmiyaan chota sa, vakeel! they say, young men want to be faithful, and are not; old men want to be faithless, and cannot…!!!! aik Sharabi aur aik Kebabi kya baat hai…!!!! (although, i am a cambo of both of your attributes)….
ps. kabirdas, I checked and he was LAL SHAH :)..(waiting for the…)
@ barristerakc on December 13th
1. BaRay mian to baRay maian, chotay mian subhan allah
2. There is no such thing as a chota vakeel. Akabar Illah Abadi (himself a vakeel) rightly acknowledged:
Howa vakeel pada to Iblees nay kaha
Lo aaj maiN bhee sahab-e-old ho gaya
3. Don’t underestimate old men any more with viagra around.
4. Aik Sharabi aur aik kababi but both hopefully with a clean heart.
Yes, the description sounded like that of Lal Shah. I have yet to check about Sarmad Shaheed and Shah Hussain. The similarity of falling in love with a Hindu boy is rather uncanny. You will hear from me tonight bafore I call it a day.
aray guru’s shama kee jeeyay!
Akabar Illah Abadi ke kya baat hai!
Akber Allahabadi penned his imortal line which just stuck in my mind kay, “aap BA pass haiN to meiN bhee BB pass hoon”
Phir,
Be-parda nazar aayeen kal jo chand beebiyaan
Akbar zameen mein ghairat-e-qaumi se garh gaya
Poochha jo unse aapka parda vo kya hua
Kehne lageen ke aql ki mardon pe parh gaya
Speaking of Akber Allahbadi the great ; here’s something which he said for BALMA,
shaamat jo ayee uss ki kiya dossra nikah; samjha ke chaar shar` e piyamber mein hain mabah; ayee magar nazar na koee soorat e falah; kaisi buree ye raey thi aur kaisi bud salah; fursat na aik pal usay dee qeel o qaal ne, jeena haraam ker diya iss ik halal ne…
Allahabad is after all famous for three things – Akber Allahabadi, Guavas (Umrood) & Amitabh Bachan
Vakeel, chhoTay hou, baRee baRee baatai’n karo tou phir poore karo:
Nehru is the most famous product of Allahabad.
Sorry Hazrat Balma about the memory lapse! It’s Saturday and I just came back ahem ahem….
Btw, Ibn-e- Safi (the writer) and Mohammad Kaif (the cricketer) are famous Allahabadis – I know some of my friends who are from Allahabad and they maintain a pretty strong connection…University of Allahabad is legendry…The great Firaq Saheb is from Allahabad too…great city!
@ barristerakc
What Akbar Allah Abadi said about Balma is a new one for me. Makarrar Irshad.
I have vague memories of three Indian cities, Shahjahan Pour, Delhi and Shimla. I still remember the delicious Umroods of Shahjahan Pour beside the Yakka and Thaila on which I rode to go to school. You are too young to know what a Yakka and Thaila were. You might have seen the picture of a Yakka in your class one Quaida but you might not know what a Thaila was. OK try to find out what a thaila was on which children rode to go to school.
When you say Firaq Sahab which Friaq you mean. I know only one Firaq who was Gorkhpoori. May be Gorakhpoor is some place in Allah Abad.
You may respond to Balma as follows:
LaRka hooN maeN chot sa par Kam karooN ga baRay baRy ( NO, not buray buray like Balma)
My response to your message got deleted accidently just when I had completed it. It is too late to write again all over.
A little while ago read the definition of democracy by George Bernard Shaw. Seems as if he defined it keeping the democracy of Pakistan in mind. He says:
"Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve."
Bingo! Firaq Gorakhpuri…(honestly, I am not good with names) – I really started reading Urdu literature during my self exile in England as a student when a friend presented a book….and ofcourse, post-Anwer Maqsud lectures on how do you expect others to respect Urdu when You (yourself) do not speak, read and respect yours…I see our young generation tilting towards English/Minglish while the “Piss”-er –e-Zameen taking over from us (unfortunately)….
Speaking of Shimla (where my grand mother’s brother lives and now a converted “hindu” Alhumdulliah …who refused to accept partiton – I do not blame him); it’s still a very much “off-limit” to Pakistani or Even Pakistani Origin tourists because of Shimla being a garrision town. It’s a beautiful place especially the town house – somehow reminds me of Abbotabad Town House? Try to make it to Kalka by road, and grab a ride on the Mountain Railway towards Shimla, timed well you can go up in the early morning and be back by late night.
Shahjahan Pour? That’s interesting? Agra? And no I am not familiar with Yakka & Thaila? The word Yakka in my dictionary is “devil worshipper”…but our “Yakka” is prorably a bull-cart?
You see gandasa, paye, foul language, dumping women alive, gang raping women and agriculture is not our culture really – it’s “PISS”ER-e-ZAMEEN’s culture…*thinking of balma* …
Wasay been to Fatehpur Sikri? My Town?
@ barristerakc on December 14th,
1. It is rather odd that in the whole of world ( as far as I have seen)it is only south Asians (India+ Pakiatani+ Cylonese) who do not take as much pride in speaking their own language as they do in speaking English. I often wonder about the precise reason for this.
2. I don’t want to sound personal but would you say that the brother of your grand mother converted to Hinduism as a protest against partition or under duress. Any way I feel a person should have the freedom to choose his religion like he should have freedom of speech, and freedom of thought. I find it it odd that Islam (or is it Mulla again) does not permit leaving Islam. If I just happen to be borne in a Muslim family through no fault of mine then why should I not have the freedom to choose a religion for myself ???
3. The only thing I remember of Shimla is its monkeys of which I used to be so scared.
4. Yakka was a small size tonga like carriage pulled by a horse. In my time in Quaidas ‘Alif’ was always for ‘Aam’ and small ‘yeh’ for ‘Yakka’. I don’t know what are ‘Alif’ and ‘Yeh’ for these days.
5. Thaila was a two wheeled covered carriage pulled by one or two men. I think it was meant to ferry only children to school.
6. By Pisser-e-Zamin do you mean only Punjabis or also the rest of Pakistanis other than Mohajirs?? You may well be right about certain aspect of their culture which is the result of feudalism, waderaism and lack of education
7. However, you should be grateful to Punjab for having done so much for the development of Urdu. You should also give Punjabis the credit for genuinely treating Urdu as the national language of Pakistan.
8. Although I have lived among Punjabis only for a small part of my life I have found them very affable people. I am rather fond of them. However, if you are asked to enumerate their faults or your major grievance against them what would they be ???
Gorakhpur is far east UP, near Bihar.
Therefore Firaq Gorakhpuri was not from Allahabad, I guess.
Like Kabirdas, I also agree that desis are the least self respeecting people on the face of this earth. Chinese speak chinese at home, Arabs speak Arabic at home, but fucking desis speak tooTi-phooTi English at home. I don’t know if people remember my comments in July after trip to Inida. I refused to speak English at hotels in Dehli. Kar lo jo karna hae. Aik laRkee muj say baad may bolnay lagee, sir ooper valay kehtay hai’n…and actually I felt little bad for getting angry at her for speaking in English when she knew I spoke Urdu (hindi)…baichaaree ko rozee kaamaanee hae.
Hamara PK/India kaa culture kharaab ho gayaa hae.
Also, KabirDaas Sahib, you after all may be more senior than me. ab tou aap mujhay pre-partition material lagnay lagay hai’n!
btw, I speak good urdu so this young girl in PK asked me, oh, aap india may paida huay thay?…In other words, if you speak normal language, babes now think you are sooo old that you were born in India.
Firaq Gorakhpuri was a darwaish and a great poet. He joined the prestigious Provincial Civil Service (PCS) back in UP; resigned and then moved to Allahabad where he lectured at English Department of University of Allahabad ….
Some years back I did a little research in Coventry, (UK) on the effect of the English language on other major languages; I asked Germans, Spanish, Italians, Russians, and Polish, whether they use English words in their respective languages when they speak, the answer was definitely NO. When I asked French, I was laughed at. Although, the “posh” English who hate dudly accent still prefer to speak in French just to show-off…while I show off with my Urdu Poetry skills and my pure Urdu accent – Yes, I am proud of it ….although I must admit it has suffered a lot thanks to the junk they speak now adays….kitna bachay ….!!!
Urdu`s problem is confounded by the fact that a very small percentage of people can claim it as their mother tongue and although, it’s great that most of the Pisser-e-Zameen are speaking in Urdu (especially the middle classes) what saddens me is the treatment of Urdu by Sindhis ….For what I see now Bollywood has taken over the task for permoting Urdu then anyone else in India (although there’s an argument that it’s Hindi….to me it’s Hindustani…)
Kabirdas as for your questions,
I) I use Pisser-e-Zameen for the rest of the Pakistan (excluding Mohajirs)….
II) I am grateful to Punjabis for there outstanding work for Urdu as compared to Sindhis who although started communicating in Urdu but still consider Urdu as a threat
III) Then, how could I forget the criminal silence of Punjabis over the Serb style genocide cum ethnic cleansing of Mohajirs in nineties? No-One in Punjab & NWFP spoke up against the extra-judicial killings of Mohajirs and that criminal silence is the cause of my anger. I know there are people in Punjab and NWFP who glorify the genocide against Mohajirs – it was called, “Operation Clean Up” as if we were “rats, insects, shit” ….
Interestingly, I met folks like Mannu Bhai, Hasan Nisar & Nazir Naji over years – people from Punjab who are if not identical but closer to be ideologically and I had always question as to why they kept silent over the genocide? They are guilty (good people) but I know other’s in great majority who want another genocide to take place of Mohajirs and that’s sad…..I am in a process of writing a book named, “the 5th Identity” (registered) for this reason alone…
I am not a fascist nor am I a racist; I have friends who are from Punjab, NWFP, Sind and Balochistan whom I could die for and I mean it.
But you see, I am oppressed, suppressed, dishonored, desecrated, sullied and tainted systematically with official patronage – where should I go? They call me Panahguzeer, Hindustora, Mutarwa… I am neither! I am just an ordinary Mohajir…
Talibanization started by Altaf and Co is getting worst day by day. Yesterday it was not a good day in most of areas in Karachi due to clash between pathans(MQM’s talibans) and MQM. Earlier
Taliban in Pakistan can’t be called even humans.
http://jang.com.pk/jang/dec2008-daily/15-12-2008/up73.gif