Mullahs storm concert

Most of us here in Karachi seem to think that the agreement of our government with the Taliban in SWAT has no affect on our urban lives in Karachi. This could not be further from the truth as the government has basically sold out the people of Swat to the Taliban who are now going to impose the most radical form of shariah known even to the muslim ummah on the poor population of the area.

Their influence in our city has been increasing over the passage of time as well and a stark example of it was the “attack” of 40-50 armed mullahs on a concert being held on valentines day in nisar shaheed park in defence. Although people may claim that the concert was creating problems for namazis at the adjacent mosque it was organized with proper permission from D.H.A authorities and the mullahs had no right to take the law into their own hands.

Police has to intervene and the concert had to be abandoned, these mullahs have now realized that it is in their power to disrupt anything they want on the name of Islam. I am not condoling valentines or the loud music interfering with someones namaz, but if I hear noise during Isha prayers does it give me the right to go over and threaten the noisemaker with a beating?

The civic agencies responsible for maintaining law and order have no idea how to deal with these mullahs and I am afraid the time is not far off when all of us will have to make a choice. Who will pay back the organizers or the people who bought tickets at this event? Who is going to hold these people back from taking over Karachi like they did in Swat?

In the end it will be between us and them.

297 Comments so far

  1. fasee on February 18th, 2009 @ 12:11 pm

    We fundo’s have the right to storm any concert any house, smash every satanic sound system ( other than there own hung on the minaret ).

    But when we sing our hums ( on latest bollywood tunes ) at any time of the day ( or night )….no body has the right to say anything, ( unless he wants his head clobbered )

    Quaid-e-azam ne pakistan hum mullah logon ke liye hi tu banaya tha ( yeh aur baat hai we dont even respect him as well )

    long live Osama….and obama..:)

  2. usman on February 18th, 2009 @ 12:55 pm

    I for one am supporting the mullahs on this one, let me make the picture more clearer, they have playing loud music since the Zohr, Asr and Maghrib prayers( it was a Fun mela type of a thing hence music all the time) they had been repeatedly requested/warned to keep it down at least at the time of the prayers, they refused to turn it down. Hence obviosuly after Isha, they had to take matter into their own hands. IF the so called organizers of the concert had the sense not to play loud music at the call of a prayer then i think shutting down the concert was the right thing to do! There have been concerts at Nisar Shaheed before, no such incidents were reported, this is pure mis management from the organizers.

    For the record the masjid where they mullahs came from is a mere 200-300 yards away from the place of the concert. They should have taken a break at the time of the prayer or atleast turned it down a little knowing that the mosque is near by.

    The media has blown this story out of proportion, all negatives only. This story should have been reported as a negative towards organizers rather than the Mullahs.

  3. mkasa on February 18th, 2009 @ 1:48 pm

    Actually it’s the negligance of organizers and you know if you say that " Bhai plz mayree bat suno " then nobody even take it serious. But when you hold a danda in hand and then said " tum suntay ho kay nahi" then he seriously take it. This culture is created by us. Why we deaf ear into the matters and shows our selfishness.

    We have to ban high volume loud speakers if it’s used to disturb or hurting the people, regardless of what events are doing. Like in my streets when someone speak loudly over the mic then i equally disturb regardless of the event either it’s a music concert or Late night Naat mahfils. Ya you can do it, but without disturbing your neighbours.

  4. khaled90 on February 18th, 2009 @ 2:22 pm


  5. theserialchiller on February 18th, 2009 @ 3:08 pm

    @khaled90. This has nothing to do with talibanization.

    @mkasa: agreed with you that no one has a right to disturb any one else. Its un-Islamic and un-civilized at the same time :)
    So all of you claiming to be the "civil society" and all of you people with a "religious" inclination, this is something that everyone can agree on. Lets ban loud speakers. Concerts as well as Mehfil-e-Naat can be held at indoor venues, without the use of external speakers.

    @usman: very well said. The media needs to act responsibly, and stop sensationalizing everything.

    @fasee: Dude, the fundoos and you have equal rights. Quaid-e-Azam ne Pakistan "enlightened moderates" ke liyay nahin banaya tha …
    sab ke liyay banaya tha :)

  6. khaled90 on February 18th, 2009 @ 3:12 pm

    @ theserialchiller

    keep your eyes closed

  7. khaled90 on February 18th, 2009 @ 3:18 pm

  8. khaled90 on February 18th, 2009 @ 3:19 pm

    Sindh Police accepts that Majority of Talebans in Karachi are Pathans and Threat to Karachi

  9. fasee on February 18th, 2009 @ 4:03 pm

    @ the serial chiller

    agreed dude, actually pakistan quaid-e-azam na pata naeh kiyon banaya tha…bcoz aaj tak jo banda bhi aya us ne quaid-e-azam ke paksitan bananay ki alag defination nikali….

    jamitye says unhu na Islam ka qilla banya tha
    Peepliyee say unhu na social democratic conutry bani thi
    Fauji rangroots say fauj ko her jaga DHA bana ke liye banaya tha

    meray bhai her aik ke pass apni aqal ke mutabik ya propraganda say inspire hu ker aik defination mojodhai.

    reh gai kanoon apnay hath main lena….trust me…i have this urge all the time aswell…halaat hi kuch aisay hain…ke dil kerta hia bandook nikal ker sba buray logon ko goli mar doon.

    but brother…vigalantism shuru hiyahee sya hota hai….kanoon hath main loo…..phir power khud corrupt kernay lagti hain…aur munsif khud mujrim bun jata hai…

    afghan mujjaheedin in point…..kahan say shuru howay kahan ja ker anjaam huwa

  10. masoodfaisal on February 18th, 2009 @ 4:26 pm

    i am totally with these "mullas" for this particular case. they just stopped bunch of wannabe goray in this case. there is no point having a musical gathering next to masjid.

  11. barrister on February 18th, 2009 @ 4:51 pm

    I wonder where did these MULLAH(S) brought there “measured THERE STICKS FROM” all same size…it reminds me of LAL-MASJID BURQA –Be-yatches!!!!

    Anyways, we have filed an FIR and they got a good danda! MQM will not tolerate this ; the people of Karachi will not tolerate this..!!!

  12. بستنی (wasiq) on February 18th, 2009 @ 4:52 pm

    excuse me guys…where is this nisar shaheed park….?and who was performing at the concert…Rakhi sawant…?

  13. usman on February 18th, 2009 @ 6:35 pm

    Nisar Shaheed Park is in phase 4, Defence, at one of the Golf Course roads, i cant exactly remember which. As far as performance at the concert goes i think it was Call, but I am not sure who actually did in the end….!

  14. faylasuf on February 18th, 2009 @ 6:56 pm

    we are afraid to raise our voice against
    ne mehfil e naat, hamd, qawali or jalsaaz after 12 am if its being conducted by the pagri one wud go lodge a complain against the late night loudspeaker usage by mosques

    but if its a concert or festival, offcourse its easier to disturb "islam k naam per". islam k naam per khuun..its nuthin new

    in every phadda there are sum misunderstandings, v cant say who was bilkul sahi and kis ke ghalti thee sari

    but yes.. mush or no mush things are not gettin ne better

  15. barrister on February 18th, 2009 @ 7:08 pm


    George (if you remember of Kiran & George …made a very interesting observation) that "if a couple kisses or shows affection in public in Pakistan towards each other; people will come and stop you …but when a husband hit’s her wife in public , it’s considered a "private business"…>

  16. khaled90 on February 18th, 2009 @ 7:42 pm

    Picture of Nisar Shaheed Park after the attack of Talebans

  17. balma on February 18th, 2009 @ 8:19 pm

    Well, this is what happens when the society is pulled in two extremes.

    As you bachoos know, I have been saying for a long time that there are two many masjids in Karachi, and mostly they are illegal/unauthorized.
    If you don’t believe me that there are two many masjids in Karachi, try to count number of simultaneous asynchronous azaans you can hear at any one time at any place in Karachi.

    The other problem with Karachi’s masjids is that in many areas (such as North Nazimabad and FBA and even in Gulshan) masjids are placed right inside parks. bacho’n ko musalsal mullaao’n kaa dhaRkaa lagaa rehtaa hae!
    Masjid should be placed away from parks and residential areas. Perhaps, near qabristaans?

    Masjids should not be allowed the use of loud speakers – even for azaan. Everyone has a watch these days. These masjids create among other things noise pollution. And, only 50/60 years ago, these jahil mullahs used to claim that loud speaker say shaitaan boltaa hae!

    I will suggest that we demolish half of the masjids in Karachi. We don’t need so many masjids. After demolishing them, we should build schools there that will teach that Pakistanis in Pakistan have fucking nothing to do with this Valentine’s day. Are gutless and shameless Pakistanis going to start celebrating 4th of July as America’s independence day?
    I was watching Russian TV channel "Russia Today" (oos channel kee laRkiyaa’n baRee bumbaat hai’n) and they were also complaining that valentine’s day is an alien custom for them!

    So, why are Pakistani burgers so inconfident of themselves? Why do they not have any self respect?

    These burgers are Pakistani problem in the other extreme. Harami burgers, there are lots of dish washing jobs available in Canada and Australia! Why don’t you get on the plane today?

    And, now finally, lack of social and civic sense in Karachi. Shaadi in one house means shaadi khaanaa barbaadi for the whole neighborhood. Why do we need to hear stupid songs from two gullees behind if someone is getting married. There should be a law banning loud music. You are getting married, tough luck – that is your problem…don’t make the whole neighborhood miserable!

    And, these stupidos organizing program at Nisar Shaheed park (nisaar bhee, shaheed bhee….double whammy)….did they have permission to play loud music? Foget the lambee daRhee, no moonchh, oonchee shalvar, moTee tonde type mullahs, what about normal people living in houses around there? And, why on Valentine’s day? What is the big fucking deal?

    And, finally, the people who showed up in the park with DanDaas (aayae kaha’n say?) should all be charged with attempt to murder! Bastards!

    Very recently I was reading about Indian Jamatis (i.e. RSS and BJP type Hindu fundamentalists) threatening valentine day’s activities in India. They have the same problem in india. Their burger class is totally out of control and that gives chance to their BJP and RSS fanatics to exploit that.

    About two hundred years ago someone said: inn hindustanio’n (i.e. today’s Pakistanis included) kee aisee tarbiyat karee jaae keh khoon tou inn kaa hindustani hou, laikin zehniyat angraiz kee ho! Who said this? any idea you burger idiots? Sorry fucking burgers, you will have to figure out the meaning of ‘tarbiyat’ (tarbiyah for allahnakhwastah type mullahs of Indo-Pak).

  18. fusa on February 18th, 2009 @ 8:38 pm

    @ Balam – very well said – but you need to cut down on the rage, it will take yo no where fast……

    as for the rest, i would blame the organizers outright – why the BURGERS ask………you know the situation rather than creating some sort of harmony for what we are in you’re making sure enemies are made, is it time to make enemies, in a time of people getting blown up simply because some one went to a hospital where service men are treated or a the bus carrying people that work from behind a desk @ the IB or at an opposing faction’s masjid – because it was in my neighborhood……… it worth it ?

  19. Adnan Siddiqi (adnansiddiqi) on February 18th, 2009 @ 9:02 pm

    tsk tsk Faisal. How ignorantly you mentioned the one side of the story, offcourse the one which had turned you on. I also had blogged about it and offcourse I did cited the source unlike you. One can read here

    However, SP Clifton Ashfaq Alam termed the incident as misconception. Giving their version, the furious men told the scribe that they had entered the park after they had been disturbed by loud noise of music coming from the park while they were offering the Isha prayers in a nearby mosque.
    “Some of the people came out of the mosque to stop the music, but as they entered the park, people present there got panicked. Thus the confusion created agitation. However, police reached the spot and took control of the situation,” the police officer added.

    I agree that so called learned like you have been suffering Islam/Mullah phobia but heck.. learn to call Spade a spade. If some one was being played Naats in loud music then still you were going to whine about it. Since it was "Music" so it’s Ok for you.

    IMO, Both parties need to be condemned. When there is a mosque and it’s prayer time the party ppl should have respected it(Now why don’t you apply Jinnah’s so called Secular speech RIGHT HERE?). On other hands Namazis could opted a better way to register their protest.

  20. balma on February 18th, 2009 @ 9:06 pm

    I meant to say ‘too many’ masjids in my previous post.

  21. بستنی (wasiq) on February 18th, 2009 @ 9:46 pm

    Mosques in town usually close down after the Isha prayers….and there is no presence of any kind… cemenaries (madrassa) try to keep a very low profile after the Isha prayers….until the day break…I don’t think it is prudent to discourage mosques near parks as they not only provide a place to worship but also to wash and clean…body and soul.

    the incident is shameful…and I blame the organisers for not taking extra security measures on a day like valentine’s night….they should be heavily fined.and not allowed to go scot free and make money by putting the lives of innocent citizens at risk.

  22. durranee on February 18th, 2009 @ 11:28 pm

    I just can’t believe what I’m reading here
    I mean WTF
    Muslims or non muslims, you are complaining that azaan or namaz breaks will ruin your party
    I mean What the EFfFFF is wrong with you guys!
    you call this talibanization?? if yes then please call me taliban as well as though I don’t pray 5 times a day and on some occassions not even once a week but I will still respect Azaan and nearby masjid for "at least" namaz time so I don’t disturb people offering prayers

    khuda ki lanat hai tum logon pe jo is ko talibanization ke lable laga kar resist kar rahi hai

  23. Adnan Siddiqi (adnansiddiqi) on February 18th, 2009 @ 11:53 pm

    Wasiq, did you actually read the news link I provided? it WAS actually Isha prayers timing.

  24. Adnan Siddiqi (adnansiddiqi) on February 18th, 2009 @ 11:57 pm

    @durrane: Khuda tumhara bhala karay. There is an ayah in Sura Al-e-Imran:

    Dead,dumb and blind and they understand not. Go figure. *grin*

  25. balma on February 19th, 2009 @ 12:04 am

    Ms. Durranee,

    We are not resisting shore-sharaabaa from Masjid (loud azaans, musalsal naats) by labeling them talibaan. At least I didn’t.
    Masjids of Karachi became trouble spots long before Taliban took control of Afghanistan.

    If loud speaker was a shaitaani aalah for Mullahs 50 years ago, it should still be the case. How come suddenly they think it is aalah-e-farogh-e-deen? (sorry, stupid burgers, you will have to translate it yoruselves)

    It is a fact that most Masjids in Karachi are illegal and unauthorized.
    If you are from Karachi, I challenge you to deny this! Otherwise, there are lot of Durranis among the tribals/talibans who will love to take you under their wings!

    Of course, I am also against any other type of loud music, valentine or no valentine, played to destroy neighborhood’s sukoon. That should be declared illegal too.

    Where is KabirDas when you need him?

  26. d0ct0r on February 19th, 2009 @ 12:07 am

    Mosque at College of Physicians & Surgeons also had a similar issue some times back. The guy next door used to play loud music even during namaz timing,some people went over and talked to him and asked him to be considerate and show some respect at least during namaz timings. I think since then the issue has been amicably resolved.

    With exception of few MQMized desi angraiz here, i think most of the MQM supporters too would side namaziz on this one.

  27. d0ct0r on February 19th, 2009 @ 12:27 am
  28. balma on February 19th, 2009 @ 12:38 am

    What? There is a mosque now at the college of Physicians too?
    Haraamzadeh her jagah masjid banaa daitay hai’n…..usually, this precedes other naajaaez tujavuzaat! What other illegal structures have been built there?

    I assume you are talking of Phase 2, DHA?

    For a moment, this posting of neem-hakeem-khatrah-e-dandaan transported me back in time to a time long ago….and lil-Balma insisting abu-balma to show him khargoshs in pinjraas there at the college campus…or were those white mice? Must be long long time ago:-) I forgot!
    I think DHA was 50 paisa a yard in those days:-)
    And, the area was known as Kalaa-Pul.

    And jaali doc, I don’t side with namaazis here at all. In fact if you look at the pictures of people (or namazis) who showed up at the park with DanDaas, they all looked like daakoos…

  29. khaled90 on February 19th, 2009 @ 12:43 am

    میں اہلیانِ ڈیفنس ہاؤسنگ اتھارٹی کی جانب سے عزت مآب آصف زرداری، سپہ سالارِ پاکستان جنرل کیانی، مجاہدینِ اسلام مولانا صوفی محمد اور انکے داماد (براڈ کاسٹر آف دی ائیر اور فاتح سوات) مولانا فضل اللہ کو دل کی اتھاہ گہرائیوں سے وادی میں نظام عدل کے قیام پر مبارکباد پیش کرتا ہوں۔

    اس تاریخی موقع کی مناسبت سے میں آپ حضرات کی توجہ کوچہ ڈیفنس کے ہر کونے میں جاری منکرات کی طرف دلانا چاہتا ہوں اور یہ درخواست کرتا ہوں کہ شرعی قوانین کے فضائل سے ہمیں محروم نہ رکھا جاوے اور ان قوانین کا اطلاق فی الفور کیا جاوے۔

    آپ حضرات کی سہولت کے لیے میں ایک سات نکاتی منصوبہ پیش کرنا چاہتا ہوں جسے پڑھ کر آپ پر یہ حقیقت روزِروشن کی طرح عیاں ہو جائے گی کہ یہ علاقہ شیطان کا مسکن بنتا جارہا ہے۔

    1- ہمارے علاقے کی گلیوں میں سینکڑوں بچے اپنے قد سے دُگنے سائز کے پلاسٹک کے تھیلے اٹھائے سارا دن گھومتے رہتے ہیں۔ یہ گھروں سے باہر پھینکے جانے والے کچرے میں سے چیزیں اٹھاتے ہیں اور ان کو بیچتے ہیں۔

    حالانکہ اس خطے کے زیادہ تر لوگ صوم و صلات کے پابند ہیں لیکن کئی گھروں سے حرام کچرا بھی پھینکا جاتا ہے جس میں ام الخبائث کی خالی بوتلیں، پرانی CDs اور عورتوں کی تصویر والے رسالے بھی ہوتے ہیں۔یہ لوگ نہ صرف ان حرام چیزوں کو چھوتے ہیں بلکہ ان کو بیچ کر حرام کی کمائی سے اپنے بچوں کا پیٹ بھرتے ہیں۔ اس غیر شرعی دھندے پر فوراٰ پابندی لگائی جاوے۔

    2- چونکہ مولانا فضل اللہ کی فتوحات میں ان کے FM ریڈیو کا اہم کردار رہا ہے، انکی دیکھا دیکھی شہر کراچی میں بھی کئی لوگوں نے اپنے ریڈیو سٹیشن قائم کرلیے ہیں۔ لیکن نعوذ باللہ ان سٹیشنوں سے بھی شیطان آواز بدل بدل کر بولتا ہے اور دن رات یہاں سے شہوانی جذبات بھڑکائے جانے والے گیت سنائے جاتے ہیں۔ ان میں سے ایک سٹیشن نے تو اپنا نام تک مست ایف ایم رکھ لیا ہے جس سے یہودی سازش کی بو آتی ہے۔ شنید ہے کہ حکومت پاکستان گذشتہ دو سال سے مولانا فضل اللہ کے FM کو جام کرنے کے لیے ایک جیمر خریدنے کو کوشش کر رہی تھی۔ اب چونکہ امن معاہدے کے بعد اس کی ضرورت نہیں رہی اس لیے ہماری گذارش ہے کہ یہ جیمر ہمارے علاقے میں نصب کیا جاوے تاکہ ہمارے کان ان شیطانی آوازوں سے محفوظ رہ سکیں۔

    3۔ہمارے علاقے کے بازاروں میں شام کے وقت کم عمر بچے اور بچیاں گلاب کے پھول بیچتے پائے جاتے ہیں۔ جہاں کہیں مرد عورت کو ساتھ دیکھتے ہیں یہ ان کو پھول بیچنے کی کوشش کرتے ہیں۔ بھلا سوچیں گلاب کا پھول دیکھ کر انسان کے دل میں کوئی اسلامی جذبہ تو بیدار ہو نہیں سکتا کوئی برا خیال ہی آئے گا۔ ہماری گذارش ہے کہ فحاشی اور عریانی کو جنم دینے والی ان ترغیبات کا فوری قلع قمع کیا جائے۔ ویسے بھی ان بچوں کو کسی مدرسے میں فقہ اور حدیث کی تعلیم دی جائے تاکہ بڑے ہو کر ملت اسلامیہ کے لیے شرمندگی کا باعث نہ بنیں۔

    یہودی سازش کی بُو
    چونکہ مولانا فضل اللہ کی فتوحات میں ان کے FM ریڈیو کا اہم کردار رہا ہے، انکی دیکھا دیکھی شہر کراچی میں بھی کئی لوگوں نے اپنے ریڈیو سٹیشن قائم کرلیے ہیں۔ لیکن نعوذ باللہ ان سٹیشنوں سے بھی شیطان آواز بدل بدل کر بولتا ہے اور دن رات یہاں سے شہوانی جذبات بھڑکائے جانے والے گیت سنائے جاتے ہیں۔ ان میں سے ایک سٹیشن نے تو اپنا نام تک مست ایف ایم رکھ لیا ہے جس سے یہودی سازش کی بو آتی ہے۔
    4- ہمارے علاقے کے گھریلو ملازم اپنی چھٹی والے دن سڑکوں پر کرکٹ کھیلتے ہیں جس سے نہ صرف ٹریفک کے نظام میں خلل پڑتا ہے بلکہ بعض دفعہ نمازی راستے میں رک کر کرکٹ دیکھنے لگتے ہیں۔ ویسے تو علاقے کے رہائشیوں کو چاہئیے کہ وہ اپنے ملازمین کو چند گھنٹے کی جو چھٹی دیتے ہیں وہ دیا ہی نہ کریں لیکن اس بارے میں اگر مولانا صوفی محمد ایک فتویٰ جاری کردیں تو اس معاشرتی برائی کے سدباب میں مدد ملے گی۔

    5-آج کل ہمارے علاقے کی گلیوں میں کئی نوجوان ایک ہاتھ میں پلاسٹک کے پھولوں کا گلدستہ لیے اور کندھے پر کیمرہ لٹکائے گھومتے ہیں۔ تحقیقات سے پتہ چلا ہے کہ کئی گھریلو ملازمین اس گلدستے کے ساتھ اپنی تصویر بنواکر اپنے آبائی گاؤں بھیجتے ہیں۔ (چونکہ تنخواہ اتنی کم ہے کہ خود گھر نہیں جاسکتے) پھول! کیمرے! اگر اس نکتے کو نکتہ نمبر تین کے ساتھ ملا کر پڑھا جائے تو اندازہ ہوگا کہ یہ کتنی گہری سازش ہے۔ اسکے سدباب کے لیے فوری کارروائی کی جائے۔

    6-ہمارے علاقے میں نفاذ شریعت کے رستے میں سب سے بڑی رکاوٹ سمندر ہے۔ (جو کہ سوات میں نہیں ہے اسی لئے وہاں یہ کام چند سو سکول تباہ کرنے اور چند ہزار دشمنانِ اسلام کو جہنم رسید کرنے کے بعد آسانی سے ممکن ہو گیا) ہماری نظریں اس وقت شرم سے جھک جاتی ہیں جب اپنی ایک عفت مآب بہن کو عبا اور حجاب پہنے کسی لوفر کے ہاتھ میں ہاتھ ڈالے ساحل پر گھومتے ہوئے دیکھتے ہیں۔ انکے حلیے دیکھ کر لگتا ہے کہ وہ اسلامی تہذیب و تمدن سے آشنا ہیں (ایسی بھی اطلاعات ہیں کہ کچھ فاحشہ اور بدکردار عورتیں بھی اب یہ روپ دھارنے لگی ہیں)۔ قصور یقیناٰ سمندر کا ہے۔ اسکی لہروں میں جب تلاطم آتا ہے تو لوگ اپنے اندر کے مسلمان کو بھول کر حیوان بن جاتے ہیں۔ اس مسئلے کا ایک سیدھا سا حل ہے۔ کچھ عربی بھائیوں نے کراچی کے ساحل کے ساتھ سمندر میں بجری ڈال کر مومنوں کے لیے لگژری فلیٹس کے پراجیکٹ شروع کر رکھے ہیں۔ اس سلسلے کو آگے بڑھایا جائے اور تمام سمندر میں بجری اور کنکریٹ ڈال کر اسے پُر کر دیا جائے۔ نہ سمندر ہوگا ، نہ لہریں اٹھیں گی نہ لوگوں کے شہوانی جذبات بھڑکیں گے۔

    7۔ہمارے علاقے میں چاند کی وجہ سے بھی کئی معاشرتی برائیاں جنم لے رہی ہیں۔ پہلی نظر میں شاید یہ مسئلہ سمجھ میں نہ آئے لیکن جب اللہ کی رحمت سے مطلع صاف ہو اور چاند پورا ہو تو نہ صرف انسانوں بلکہ جانوروں کے شہوانی جذبات بھی بھڑک اٹھتے ہیں۔ اس کا بھی حل موجود ہے۔ پاکستان کے بابائے بم، شاعرِ بے مثال اور کالم نگارِ باکمال حضرت ڈاکٹر عبدالقدیر سےگذارش کی جائے کہ وہ ایک ایسا میزائل بنائیں جو چاند کو تہس نہس کردے۔ اگر مدظلہ عذر صحت پیش کریں تو انہیں یہ دلیل دی جاوے کہ اگر چاند نہیں ہوگا تو کبھی کوئی ہندو بھی وہاں پر قدم رکھ کر امت مسلمہ کو نیچا نہیں دکھا سکے گا۔ (آپ نے خبروں میں پڑھا ہوگا کہ ہندو، امریکیوں کے ساتھ سازش کر کے اپنی لڑکیوں کو چاند پر بھیجنے کی کوشش کرتے رہتے ہیں ان میں سے ایک خلائی جہاز پھٹنے کی وجہ سے واصل جہنم بھی ہو گئ تھی)۔ اگر ڈاکٹر صاحب کو پھر بھی تامل ہو تو انہیں ان کی خدمات کے عوض ڈیفنس ہاؤسنگ اتھارٹی میں ایک ہزارگز کے پلاٹ کی پیشکش کی جاوے، فوراٰ مان جائیں گے۔

  30. balma on February 19th, 2009 @ 12:44 am

    No one should be allowed to build on that park in FBA, jaali doc!
    But, i don’t trust these bastard mullahs either (the managing committee).
    I have never seen a sharif aadmi being a member of such masjid committiee, yaa tou jamat-e-Islami yaa phir tablighee crap heads hotay hai’n. I doubt they are doing this to maintain a park. They probably want to build a madrassaa there. Inn haraami mullaho’n say poochho keh kitnay amenity parks per inn logo’n nay naajaaiz masjidai’n banaa dee hai’n?

    What is supposed to be at that plot of land? park, cinema? what? Also, is the masjid built next to it, is that legal? Lets look into that too.
    Jaali doc, can you do some research?

  31. khaled90 on February 19th, 2009 @ 12:49 am

    @ Doctor

    hey you are still alive after lieing soo much here on this forum ?
    haan waisai tum jaisay jhootay munafiq jo murda logo ka naam say jhoot boltay hoon wo itni asani say kam marain gay.

    Karachi mai jitni major punjabi pathan abadiyan hain sab encroached hain for your kind information Dcotor with out lease.

    Un per to tumhara kabhi qalam nahi utha uthay ga bhi kaisai akhir ho Mohajir dushman jamati.

    @ Karachiites

    We have to raise our voice over increasing encroachments in karachi by Pathans and punjabies coming to this city and living here by grabbing gov and peoples land and Jamatis and ANP are giving these land grabbers complete shelter as they eventual vote them and use against the citizens and permanent residents of this city.

  32. balma on February 19th, 2009 @ 1:49 am


    That Urdu post is extremely funny.

    The problem of kachee aabaadess in Karachi is very ghambeer.

    We have to differentiate between centuries old villages within Karachi and unauthorized settlements established in 60’s, 70’s, and more recently. Usually, these illegal settlements begin with bhain’s kaa baaRah and a mosque. Please correct me, if I am wrong here.

    That is why, Balma has proposed shifting of heavy duty industries to the areas where the labor comes from. Having a city with 18 million people is nothing to be proud of. That is like feeling good at billion plus population of Muslims. After all, what is the use of nangay/bhookay billion Muslims?

  33. coolboy on February 19th, 2009 @ 4:51 am

    I would contribute my views perticularly this incident that Mullahs or who ever attacked this so called concert was a right act and all those participating or organizing such things should be punish.
    If you think that i am any mullah then you are wrong i am born and bread Pakistani living with my family in england, and you people will be surprized and may won’t beleive that while living in this culture we are still sticking with our values and our children have no concept of celebrating velantines day or new year(may be one in thousands of pakistani community doing these things in here) but i can’t understand who are those people doing all those things in Pakistan, and i tell you one more thing all those boys/men going into these parties leave their own sisters and wifes at home as they are not allowed to be offered to other men or may be their sisters and wifes or other ladies goes to some different party to keep the HIJAAB between brother and sister. These things also started in india few years ago and very soon they all have realized the negitivity of this western culture and you all might have seen recent similar incidents at New year parties and valentine parties.
    I would just say on thing to our Great country’s Great Nau Jawans that we need to progress to a developed country and Inshallah we can do it all without any Behayai. Over here in Europe when we watch Pakistani channels we feel that in Pakistan every women is ready to throw off her cloths and will be half naked, I challange every body if you find any Pakistani girl in sleeve less or in shoulder less dress in here you show me, but these all things are introduced in Pakistan Tv channels and then to public by media and i blame our tv channels and respected citizens as well. Those people who have any islam in them selves should protest against those channels. Some time we talk among our community that better we won’t send our children to Pakistan as WOH BIGAD JAIN GE

  34. barrister on February 19th, 2009 @ 6:43 am


    I found the Pakistani / Kashmir Brothers and Sisters living in UK still stuck in 1950(s) and are the most extreme lot ever. US has rightly pointed out that British-Pakistani(s) are the biggest threat to the US…..

    I remember one of the brother’s from Manchester went on a suicide bombing sometime back to Israel ; then we had all 7/7 bombers expect that “Niger” all Pakistanis….we had the Glasgow Airport Bombing Attempt – all British Pakistanis; some of our brothers from lalo-khet of Birmingham, Alum Rock (all Pakistani/Kashmiri Area) and Small Heath who tried to kidnap and behead, a British Soldier of Pakistani Origin apart from lunatics like Hizbul-Tahrir who wants Sharia to be imposed in the UK….!!!!!


  35. بستنی (wasiq) on February 19th, 2009 @ 7:35 am

    @siddiqui sab…..karachi main isha ka waqat yani between 8-9 pm….a concert so early is unthinkable….anyways…mujhay yaad nahein aa raha hai kay odher mosque kon si hai…naam sahi se maloum nahein per if it is the same park that i think it is….then there must be a hell lot of noise everyday during the prayers….and people must have got used to it by now…Imam bargah is also blocks away…but it could be the muharrum related….somebody I know was not allowed to go a date with her fiance…that night…or any night…the reaction was only natural.

  36. obiwankenobe on February 19th, 2009 @ 9:34 am

    I have just one regret in my life that masjid is not near my home. I used to live 12 miles from masjid and few months ago I moved closer to masjid and now it is still 5 miles away from my current place. I think most of you really don’t appreciate how good it is have masjid closed to your home.

  37. fasee on February 19th, 2009 @ 10:22 am


    yaar tum rehtay kahan hu….bcoz karachi main in %^$^%$ mullhon nay her jagha tu apna " add’dda " banaya huwa hai..aur naam rakh letay hain masjid ka.

    kisi bhi park per masjid ke naam per illegal adda banaoo…us me 5 dukanin niklao aur muftay ka rent lo…aur bara sa banner lagao ke " masjid zeer-e-tameer hai…dil khool ker chanda dijiyee"……

    @ balma.

    your comments may be hard…to hard….but you have my vote dude…….50% masajid gira do tub bhi buhat hain…..her plot ko dekh ker in khabeeson ko munh main aisay pani ata hai jsasay hamara kisi bhi "samaan main pori aur kaproon main adhoori " larki ko dkeh ker ata hai.

    i guess every mullah has wet dreams dreaming about khali ploits some where in mullah-istan.

    @ rest of all.

    i see most of you supporting the mullah’s here….offocurse we all have this urge to support the malnutritiouned poor underdogs….in this case the mullahs….wisya in main under dog main say under nikalo tu sahee lagta hai…:)
    anyways…i was saying….people in sawat used to support these hamaray islami bhai hain..un UNDERdogs ko jagha di mehman nawazi ki, donation di…..ab dkeho salaon na apna asili chehra dikha hi diya…pora sawat ujaar ker rakh diya….and sawati people are all in camps

    Long live molvi fazlulah.

    so guys…sanp ko doodh pilanay say phelay soch lo…is waqat masoom hai per jis ki fitrat main hi kameena pun hu..woh aik din dasay ga zaroor.

    baki allah sab ko hif-o-aman main rakhay….aur saray darhi walay mullon ko jaldi jaldi jahanum ka maza chakhaye… usi ka mazhab ko badnaam ker rahay hain…:)….aaameen

  38. بستنی (wasiq) on February 19th, 2009 @ 11:01 am

    @OBI… iam very sorry to hear this….my heart is cry…to hear this…you I have been blessed by the lord to live all my life near the coolest mosques….I am not sure if you have visited or heard of the binoritown mosque or the mosque under its banner…all over the world….kon kafir binori town kay pass nahein rehna chahata ho ga…if you ask mon amies one week in france or one week in binori town…there wont be a surprize….i have myself heard them sitting in the car outside waiting for their men…say "aap itni jaldi aa gaay…?" sometime i do get a taste of the both worlds in split seconds….almost a cultural shock entering the mosque….like i am going through a euro tunnel…i wont get into the details and kill all the fun for you….contemplate.
    the only thing that can usually distracts me during a prayer is the smell of bar be’que or the thought that mine would be ready now…
    I have’nt missed a friday prayer in the mosque for as long as i can remember….and if MOD permits me…i would love to increase the frequency….

  39. fasee on February 19th, 2009 @ 11:31 am

    hum tu isay admi samjhta thay per wasiq tu mullah nikla…:D:D

  40. بستنی (wasiq) on February 19th, 2009 @ 11:36 am

    aadaab arz ..!

  41. barrister on February 19th, 2009 @ 2:45 pm

    tasleem! yes, wasiq got Jamaati Genes…as it seems!

  42. faylasuf on February 19th, 2009 @ 6:44 pm

    Fasee yr vote is for balma and mine is for u!

    oh n by no means do i wish to devalue wht khaled nine zero or balma hv said


  43. بستنی (wasiq) on February 19th, 2009 @ 8:10 pm

    @Barrister sab……most respected sir…and you seriously believe it is possible …..for a Vicar of Bray…like myself to have such an advanced molecular structure in my blood cell….I don’t think so….

    And this be law, I shall maintain
    Until my dying day, sir
    That whatsoever king may reign,
    Still I’ll be the Vicar of Bray, sir.

  44. Adnan Siddiqi (adnansiddiqi) on February 19th, 2009 @ 9:46 pm

    Masjids should not be allowed the use of loud speakers – even for azaan. Everyone has a watch these day

    Balma Chudhary, I don’t want to give credit to your replies by commenting on that but you said something which didn’t only give me a laugh but made me surprised as well.

    You said everyone has a watch..or I add a wall clock in each room. If I believe in your theory that then there should not be speaker at Airport for announcements because all of us have wrist watches. Why the guy or the lady announces? Similarly there should be NO ALARM in my mobile and watches..after all I can see all the time when an hour is completed. Heck, Angraiz were so lame that they introduced the words like "Notification" and "Intimation" in dictionary. After all we are attentive all the time since watches can be WATCHED all the time. Similarly I should not set notification on outlook for different scheduled tasks because My memory is so sharp that I don’t need any notification.

    I wonder whether you even know the concept of Azaan or in English(Athan). Azeen is nothing but a call for prayers, a notification mechanism to *intimate* Muslims to quit every thing and start getting ready to present infront of Allah. We all know that Asar time is around 5-5.30 during feb to April but since we are busy in other matters therefore we can’t keep in mind all the time when is the exact timing.That is Irony that even such intimation don’t make one to ready for Prayers.Khair..

    When a school peon can ring bell for morning assembly every morning then why does it bother if Allah intimates and notify us to get ready for Salah. I believe its Ehsaan of Allah(SwT) that He keeps reminding us to offer Salat. We don’t mind to bear other type of notification but we start getting irked when it comes to Namaz.

    You anti-Religion ,pseudo intellectual sounds more religious than religious people when you guys want to prove your own lame points.

  45. faylasuf on February 19th, 2009 @ 9:49 pm

    hahaha Adnan.. interesting point

    now m goin to vote for u as well ;D

  46. kabirdas on February 20th, 2009 @ 12:39 am

    @ obiwankenobe

    Sir, you call it a regret?? Wait till you live close to some mosque and experience the nuisance that it creates. I have three mosques around my house within a radius of one km and can’t describe the misery that they are causing in the neighbourhood.

    By the way I am interested to know the whereabouts of the areas where you lived and which didn’t have a mosque at a distance of 12 miles and 5 miles. I bet no such heavenly place on earth exists in Pakistan. I will be eagerly waiting for this info.

  47. balma on February 20th, 2009 @ 3:32 am

    Crazy Eddie,

    Thanks for bringing up your examples. I have a question though….
    When they announce flight arrivals at the airport terminal in Karachi, do the people living in Drigh Colony or Malir hear the announcement.
    When my cell phone rings, do the people at the office upstairs hear that?
    Or when the school bell rings, do people upto a mile living from there hear the bell as well.
    Bhayya, mantaq tou toom per khatam hae! NOT!

    And, please note, you as well as others, I am not saying that azaan should be banned….I am saying that the use of loud speakers should be banned in mosques….except inside jaamaa masjids on Friday’s noon prayers…..because the crowd can get pretty big.

    Now what is wrong with my suggestion?

    OBI please tell me too about such a place in Karachi!

    What is that shaer bhaaiyou’n and khwaateen…rahai’n jaa kar oos jagah..ghar jahan banaayain and…waht is that damn shaer…anyone?

  48. sabakhan on February 20th, 2009 @ 4:01 am


  49. بستنی (wasiq) on February 20th, 2009 @ 6:45 am

    @balma jee…rahiyeah ab aise jaga chal kar jahan koi na ho
    aur agar mer jaiyeah toh noha khuan koi na ho
    bey dar o dewaar sa aik ghar banaya chahiyeah

    heard the azans for about half an hour… the birds (robin) are humming….this will continue for about and hour more… feels like heaven….

  50. kabirdas on February 20th, 2009 @ 8:04 am

    @ balma
    I have now decided:
    Rahiyeah ab aise jaga chal kar jahan MULLA na ho

    I am planning to shift to the place where my friend ‘obiwankenobe’ lived with no mosque within a radius of 12 miles. Thats why I have requested him to let me know the whereabouts of this place. Hope he responds and obliges.

  51. balma on February 20th, 2009 @ 9:43 am

    Wasiq, thanks. That is exactly the gajal I was looking for. Ghalib dude, I guess. I will have to open up my copy of devaan-e-ghaalib….laikin mujh say yeh share yaad nahi’n hotay.

    And, nobody, including recent arrival saba – and crazy eddy, mentions my other points that I am against all kinds of loud it is meelaad-o-naat from Masjid, loud music in parks, loud shadi music, nooooo, inn sub kee sooee azaan per aa kar aTak gayee hae.
    And, talk of bid-ut here…..jub mazhab may her cheez jo naee hae, bid-ut hae….qavaali haram hae, meelad bid-ut hae, bismillah party (Indian Muslim tradition) bid-ut hae, Aameen (another Indian Muslim tradition) bid-ut hae…her khushee kaa kaam bid-ut hae, laikin masjid kay bho’npoo (desi word for loud speaker) say azaan bid-ut nahi’n hae.
    Kar lo gal!
    ChaTT bhee meree, paTT bhee meree.
    Heads I win, tail you loose.

    Do you guys think Quran Khwaani (desi style, on chhelums and barsees) is also bid-ut? I am actually against it.

    KabirDas sahib, if you find the place you are looking for in Mumlikat-e-Allahdaad Pakistan, let me know. Welcome back to KMB. I was afraid that you have quit coming here due to frauDee vakeel’s anger.

    If khudahafiz is allahhafiz, then khudanakhwastah is allahnakhwastah and Khudaadad is allahdaad.

    I am just so pissed!

    Allama Balma.

  52. بستنی (wasiq) on February 20th, 2009 @ 11:38 am

    Balma jee aur fassee sab….aap logon ney toh samaa(tv nahein)baandh diya..jis ki waja se pura Kashmir jhooom otha subah subah….MashaAllah…!inshaAllah aik din pura pakistan…aap log kay zoor ay khitabuth se jhooom othey gaa..

  53. bluemax on February 20th, 2009 @ 11:53 am

    @balma, kabirdas: obiwankenobe didn’t mention that he is living in Karachi :) he should clear the confusion, I guess.

  54. fasee on February 20th, 2009 @ 12:21 pm

    @ saba ali khan.

    ziyada uchalnay ki zarorat nahe hai…buhat piayr hai na mulluh say….taliban ko anay do…shuttlecock burka pehna ker ghar main bund ker dian gay…no tulsi and khani ghar ghar ki…and no internet for you too….yeh sab bhi kharafat hain..larkiyon ko taleem honi hi nahe chayee….bolti buhat hain

    @ wasiq.

    me samma tv bandhnay say behatar ye samjhta hjoon ki kisi tv presenter ko bandh diya jai, sali aisay aisay kapray pehan ker a rahi hian ke dimagh ki chip ur jati hai….ik faikda yeh huwa ahi kay main excersice ke taraf ragib huwa hoon…excersie programe dekh dekh ker.

    @ balma.

    kisi ke peet pechay burai bhi tu islam main mana ayi hai….ab mullon ki muslasal tazleel ker rahay hain..yeh bhi gunah hai…..mullahay insaan nahe tu insaan jaisy lagtay tu hain na ( thoray thoray )

    @ kabir das.

    any property which has no masjid within 12 mile radiues is just a myth….i heard is khazanay ka nakhsa 100 saal puranay paper per likha puranay kaberustaan mian dafan hai….us plot ki keemat 50 coror tak hogi..coz everyopne wud die to buy that plot.

    @ faylasuf

    thanks for teh vote….per no thanks….as mullahon ki dhamkiyon ki wajah say main na election say quit ker liya hai….

    aaj kaal darhi barha aur moonch kum ker raha hoon….shlwar itni onchi baand raha hoon jitni larkiyan capric bhi nahe pehnatin…..aaj kaal wet dreasm bhi kareena ya katrina ki nahee….blue shuttle cock burka main kisi 80 kilo ki gumnam haseena ki ati hain…..

    i will soon be planing my abitious careear of
    1)grabing a park plot ,
    2)coinstructing a masjid and
    3)renting out shops,
    4)send waves after weaves of zombies camoflauged as bearded abominations
    5) buy 12 loudspeakers for my latest firy speaches for islam ( my islam )
    6) buy a FM radio and be the RJ….or MJ ( mullah jockey ) for my myopic point of view.

    issue fatwas, any fatwas..if the price is right.
    7) have 4 mobile human production facilities, churning out 1 kid a year. ( called woman )

  55. بستنی (wasiq) on February 20th, 2009 @ 1:27 pm

    @kD…..sir if one of the three mosque around your house making the racket and causing nuisance belongs to the binori clan…you can register your complaints online with a false identity or a pseudonyms…at the contact given in the offical web site…

    and i can assure you action will be taken prompto…..somebody will come and smash your computer asap……

  56. kabirdas on February 20th, 2009 @ 4:00 pm

    @ wasiq
    Thank you for the tip but I would rather put up with these mosques than have my throat slit and that too without a Takbeer which these days has now come to be a common practice in this part of the world.

    Few years back things were not so bad and one could take this kind of risk like I did once. There use to be a group of some senior retired governmant servants belonging to Tableeghi Jamaat who used to knock at my door and invite me to come to the mosque next door for prayers. I used to decline their offer but would invite them inside my house and get involved with them in discussion of various religious issues. They were so persistent to take me to the mosque that I ultimately agreed to accompany them on the condition that I will also be allowed to air my views on issues which came under discussion after the prayers. A day was fixed for such a get together in the mosque when one of the higher up of the Jamat was also due to come. My wife was so happy to know that I have decided to go to the mosque for prayers that she had a special strached Shalwar Kameez prepared for me to wear on this auspicious ocassions. On the fatelful day pulled by these guys and pushed by my wife I ended up at the mosque couple of hungdred yards away just before the Maghreb prayers. After the Maghreb prayers their leader gave a long lecture on various issues. At the end of the lecture we sat down in a circle to hold informal discussion among ourselves on various issues on which he had spoken in his lecture.

    During the course of this discussion I made three observations which can most briefly be summed up as follows:

    a. The earth quakes have nothing to do with the wrath of Allah as described by the honourable speaker.
    b. We will have to reintrpret the story of the creation as described by the speaker to bring it in line with the The Theory of Evolution.
    c. The first marriage of prophet Muhammad can be said to be a love marriage and as such there is room for such marriages in Islam unlike what the speaker thought of such marriages.

    Each time I made these assertion though very diplomatically, politely and respectfully I could almost feel the bodies of those sitting next to me stiffening with anger. They refuted my points by reciting various Quranic verses in Arabic and aggresively decreed that my Iman had been corrupted by Iblees and suggested various measures to to get rid of him. I told them what I was saying was based on scientific discoveries. I was, more or less told, that scientist were also the deciples of Iblees. They believed scientist should reconcile their discoveries and theories with the words of God and it shouldn’t be other way round.

    Few weeks after this meeing in the mosque one night round midnight some one hurled a rock at one of my windows and broke its huge glass. That was the last time that I went to the mosque and held any discussion with any bearded person. Every cloud has a silver lining. The good that came out of this incident was that after my wife paid a substantial sum for the replacement of this window she never again pressed me to go to mosque again:-)

    Well, these three mosques do have a plus point also. On Friday I listen to their sermons,which I find rather entertaining, while sitting in my home. I have a choice to listen to any one of the three sermons. All I have to do is to sit either in my study or in my lounge or in the balcony. All these three places face one of these mosques. As a matter of fact right now I am sitting in my study and listening to the story of Yousuf and Zulekha coming out from mosque. My lounge is receiving the details of Jannat and how the faithfuls will be SERVICED there by the HOORS. If I wanted to listen to the trechrous history of Jews and Christians I would have sat in my balcony.

    So in the light of above my reply to your suggestion is :

    Bakhsho bee billy chouha landora hee bhalla :-)

  57. kabirdas on February 20th, 2009 @ 6:38 pm

    @ balma, bluemax and fasee

    Indeed, obiwankenobe didn’t mention living in Karachi 12 miles away from any mosque but I assume he is living somewhere in Pakistan. Such a place anywhere in Pakistan will be good enough for me I assure you. I wonder where this guy who sounded like my Guardian Angel has disappeared now.

    Obiwankenobe, please return to KMB just for once more and give us the good news—- location of the place in Pakistan which is 12 miles away from any mosque. You will be suitably rewarded for this info.

  58. kabirdas on February 20th, 2009 @ 7:15 pm

    @ balma
    I will never dream of quitting KMB unless the place where my heart is now set on to move, the one which doesn’t have a mosque within its 12 miles radius, doesn’t have the internet service also within this distance.

    As far as frauDee vakeel is concerned please note eversince he said ‘call me a pig but don’t call me a Punjabi’ (which obviously couldn’t do)I have started calling him as my brother which I feel is a more polite way of calling him a pig :-) Oh, barrister is a great guy and a good pal despite being still wedded to Mohajir Quomi Movement which became extinct long time back and turned into Muthida Quomi Movement :-)

    Sir, your claim to the title of Allama is fully justified after you wrote:
    " If khudahafiz is allahhafiz, then khudanakhwastah is allahnakhwastah and Khudaadad is allahdaad."–LOL. Sometime back someone objected to my saying ‘Khudahafiz’ and advised me to say ‘Allahhafiz’ instead. Let someone now tell me the samething again and I will have an answer for him provided by you. Well said Allama Balma.

    KabirDas sahib, if you find the place you are looking for in Mumlikat-e-Allahdaad Pakistan, let me know. Welcome back to KMB. I was afraid that you have quit coming here due to frauDee vakeel’s anger.

    If khudahafiz is allahhafiz, then khudanakhwastah is allahnakhwastah and Khudaadad is allahdaad.

  59. d0ct0r on February 20th, 2009 @ 7:19 pm

    From his previous comments here on kmb 1 can easily figure out that he is not in pk.Btw how did u figure out that stone throwing was the handiwork of some 1 from the mosque u went 2

  60. balma on February 20th, 2009 @ 8:18 pm

    KabirDas, are you married?
    Lots of women will be upset to hear this! aap nay sub kaa dil toRe diyaa!

    Btw, if you had said that Prophet Muhammad and Khadijah had passand kee shaadi, that might have gone better with the tablighi dudes:-)

    Tablighi Jamat could do so much wonders if it had stuck to education among the Muslim Masses of India (which included Paksitan in those days, many Pakistanis tend to forget this).

    If Tablighi Jamat wants, illiteracy can disappear among Muslims of Paksitan and India in one year!
    her jagah ghoomtay hai’n, laikin koee Dhang kaa kaam nahi’n kartay. Afsose, sud-afsose.

  61. kabirdas on February 20th, 2009 @ 8:46 pm

    @ d0ct0r
    Sir, you may well be right about the country of residence of this guy whose heart yearns for a mosque close to his residence. However, I wonder why he has not come out with a reply to my request and query by saying where he lives.

    About your second observation I must say you have made a good point. I am not sure if the person who damaged my window was indeed some faithful from the mosque. It could have been some vandal. However, my wife who has above average 6th sense felt it was some one from the mosque. She was so convinced of it that she even let go pestering me for not going to a mosque. So to get her off my back, once for all, I readily agreed with her that it was someone from the mosque:-)

  62. Adnan Siddiqi (adnansiddiqi) on February 20th, 2009 @ 9:16 pm

    Thanks for bringing up your examples. I have a question though….
    When they announce flight arrivals at the airport terminal in Karachi, do the people living in Drigh Colony or Malir hear the announcement.
    Or when the school bell rings, do people upto a mile living from there hear the bell as well.

    Thanks for giving me a laugh by giving lame examples again. I don’t hear voice of azaan if it;s being giving in some masjid of Defence but yes I do hear Unwanted MUSIC and other things all the time in my area.

    When my cell phone rings, do the people at the office upstairs hear that?

    Yep. and Yes mobile disturbs when it rings in masjid during namaz. Why didn;t you come up with this example well.

    Balma Chudhary, do come up with some sensible analogies so that we can proceed further

  63. balma on February 20th, 2009 @ 10:06 pm

    First of all, Crazy Eddy (I think it was a brand name of a glue – goand), loud azaan five times a day, by mutliple mullahs at the same time (I counted once, it was 5 azaans aagay-peechhay at the same time) is unwanted by me, just like paRoasee’s music is not appreciated by me. Can you understand that? I don’t want to hear loudspeakered azaan. Can you understand this?

    Second, I was trying to say that you don’t hear the airport announcement in Malir or Drigh Colony which are right next door…..but you can certainly hear mullahs screaming for miles! Where do you live? Block H, north Nazimabad?
    You can’t hear even bomb blast from DHA.

    But, Are you telling me that people on the other side in Block L can not hear the azaan from one of block H’s mosque? I highly doubt it! I bet you can hear azan from a masjid in Hyderi at a house in block L.

    I think you should turn down your cell phone ring to a sharifaanah level; my cell phone does not ring so lound to disturb people on other floors or my neighbors. Well, Pakistanis are pretty stupid people. Pakistani and Muslims on top of it are a deadly combination. They have no manners… I keep saying this…. They don’t turn down their cell phone’s ring when in a public gathering. Whether a ghazal mehfil or a masjid!
    I understand your complain…..mujhay toum say dilee hamdardee hae….but what can I say? that most namaazis are stupid?!?!?

    Similarly school kee ghanTee is limited to within school.

    Again, you crazy guy, I don’t want to hear 5 azans phase-shifted every day 5 times a day. Are you able to understand this?

  64. kabirdas on February 20th, 2009 @ 11:13 pm

    @ balama

    I like the term ‘phase-shifted’ multiple azans. Wonder what would their effect be if they were all in-phase with each other. Perhaps the result be a DIL DEHLA DANI WALI azan of extremely high volume from all around us !! Mullas will like that if they could achieve this:-)

    This is just for your info that in Egypt they have banned azan on loud speakers in recent past and the law is being implemented strictly.

  65. kabirdas on February 20th, 2009 @ 11:28 pm

    @ balma
    Unfortunately I am married but please don’t ask me any more question on this subject because then I will forget all my bitterness against Mullas and start enumrating my grievances against the so called fair sex when it appears in the form of a male’s so called better half. The ‘bitter half’ is more like it !!

  66. Adnan Siddiqi (adnansiddiqi) on February 21st, 2009 @ 12:32 am

    No school k ghanti is not limited to school. I often woke up due to unwanted bell I usually hear daily.

    Anyways,Balma Chudhary, start living in some remote village of Punjab, enjoy the weather,Mutyar and Gobar over there. You will not hear any unwanted voice at all. You may join Barrister AK47 over there.

  67. بستنی (wasiq) on February 21st, 2009 @ 12:50 am

    @obi….guru the stratege failed….I got extra namak para’s….

    @KD…..sir iam really very sorry to have triggered some painful memories of the past…..I know there are two kind of people in karachi…one who wear starched shalwars and the others who think they can….kaabley massi main bandey ko bhi shuoq hua tha….i bought the cloth from this market behind the elphy….had it stiched from the tailor out side the mosque….had it starched from the cleaner next to the tailor….wear it on two weddings and a funeral….recently i took it out for an unnecessary test run…..the starch is not as crisp….but iam confident…i can use it for one more public display…..without anybody having the slightest suspicion of …..

    I believe that it is your right to choose where you want to sit in your house and what sermon from which mosque you want to hear or not hear….as for myself….I cannot sit back and let others have all the fun…..also I have been so over protected….that i never want to let go of an oppertunity to test the wits and patience of my protectors….it is a learning process as well for me and for them….also it gives them the hope….that when they are gone…i would not give so easy….
    Windows are usually broken in this town with the cricket balls also some times with the harmless little stone….not to scare the people but to make the scared people come out scream and shout….be heard, be sympathized befriended ….when my window was broken I got out and moved in the opposite direction….channelized my anger and fear….to me it was like a blank cheque in the hand of shrewed banker….anyways….it is my personal observation that mosques under the banner and patronage of the binori clan are very conscientious about the misuse of loud speakers….and they love and respect women…and teach the hopeless to survive in this crazy world.

  68. duke on February 21st, 2009 @ 8:23 am

    Apparently, the organizers made a mistake. If they did not lower the volume of the speakers during azaan and prayers hours, that is clearly a big mistake but I have a question to ask.

    Mullas keep "singing" naats that are made using Indian songs as the melody and they keep doing it all night long in many areas, especially during Eid-Milad un Nabi days. They do that on LOUD SPEAKERS and them kinda naats is the last thing that I wana hear at any given day. If we go and ask them to lower the volume, would they do that? DO they do that? I am pretty sure that 90% of us here do not have the guts and do that because we know that we will probably be labelled as Kafirs and probably will be beaten to death. How does this reflect the story of the other side? Can someone please explain that to me?

  69. kabirdas on February 21st, 2009 @ 1:07 pm

    @ Duke
    Sir, I agree with you that the organiser of the function should have made sure that loud music was not played during the prayer times which could disturb the people saying prayers at the fixed times. We all have our right to enjoy certain freedoms as long as any such freedom when exercised does not infringe on some other freedom to which someone else is entitled to. This is the general principal which needs to be borne in mind by all concerned and if we do that there will be no problem of the sort under discussion.
    Mullas have every right to sing songs of any kind whether made using the tunes of Indian songs or western rap music. I have no right to object to their singing such songs as long as they do that at a time and at a volume which does not disturb me. Like wise I have the right to play and enjoy any kind of music be it western or eastern as long as the time or volume of it does not disturb their normal activity of life.
    As things stand these days if someone objects to the loud music being played by some infidel there is a good chance that that infidel will turn down the volume of his music. However, if a Mulla is singing some religious song at the top of his voice on loud speakers disturbing the neighbourhood and asked to turn down the volume there is no way that he would listen to your pleas. His rationale for not doing so is that it would endanger Islam.
    I agree with you that none of us will dare ask Mulla to turn down the volume of his songs. It is not the fear of being labelled as Kafir that prvents us from doing so. These days it is the fear for our life that acts as detterance for us. We as normal human being love life and fear death and that too by slitting of the throat.
    Mulla has no such fear. For him dying for his cause or killing in the name of Allah means he will be entitled to perpetual servicing by 72 virgins in the life hereafter.
    I hope I have answered your question fully to your satisfaction. If you have any more questions in this regard please don’t hesitate to ask?

  70. kabirdas on February 21st, 2009 @ 2:14 pm

    @ wasiq
    Thanks for your response. I will try to find out more about ‘binori’ and their mosques and agenda.

  71. khaled90 on February 21st, 2009 @ 2:51 pm

    Karachi escape narrowly from a suicide attack from the hands of terrorist talebans.

  72. barrister on February 21st, 2009 @ 2:59 pm
  73. barrister on February 21st, 2009 @ 3:03 pm

    Confirmed Resport.

    Okay, around 11:30 PM a White Landcruiser Cygnus bearing no number but written “SHAH” with tinted windows half open was distributing the 4 page printouts of this article at Sea View McDonalds entrance close to KFC. Reports also confirm that after a while they came out of the vehicle with AK-47’s rifles.

  74. بستنی (wasiq) on February 21st, 2009 @ 9:53 pm

    kufioun…sham ki bhi koi khabar hai kay nahein…..?

  75. fasee on February 22nd, 2009 @ 12:21 am

    sab batin choro..yeh bataoo phalusteen main do din sya nalkay main pani nahee araha us per hartaal kab kerni hai numasih chorangi per

  76. fusa on February 22nd, 2009 @ 12:58 am

    @ Khalid
    sorry state of a blog, hardly find a word written in response to the MQM rhetoric posted on it

  77. Adnan Siddiqi (adnansiddiqi) on February 22nd, 2009 @ 1:00 am

    doing it all night long in many areas, especially during Eid-Milad un Nabi days. They do that on LOUD SPEAKERS and them kinda naats is the last thing that I wana hear at any given day. If we go and ask them to lower the volume, would they do that? DO they do that? I am pretty sure that 90%

    @Duke: It’s equally…infact more worst than those ignorant western wannabes because such naat players abuse Islam and use it for their own needs. The fact is..those namazis were NOT playing naats.

  78. kabirdas on February 22nd, 2009 @ 8:38 am

    @ fusa
    I am also intrigued by this deafening silence. May be it is some kind of conspiracy by the Punjabis:-)

  79. balma on February 23rd, 2009 @ 9:19 am

    Can you tell us, once and for all, why you are so anti-Panjabi?

  80. khaled90 on February 23rd, 2009 @ 9:54 am

    a Pathan Taliban suicide bomber shot dead by Police in karachi couple of days back identified.

    He is also like ordinary Pathan doing petty business in karahci but turned out to be a suicide bomber.

    He is from Bajour .

    There are thousands of these Pathan Talibans on the streets of karachi, people of karachi be vigil.

    I don’t understand why such incident is over looked by Admin and Members of KMB ?

    Is this issue is not related to karachi ?

  81. faylasuf on February 23rd, 2009 @ 11:02 am

    80 posts on a single topic!

    is this a record or sumthing??

    khaled nine zero could you plz confirm the origin or urdu text posted by your good self here?

    p.s. yea yea i v checked bbc urdu

  82. fasee on February 23rd, 2009 @ 1:05 pm

    wow…itni posts.

    lagta hai mullah ka naam atay hi, bakool shair.

    sab ke dil ke phaphoolay phoot pertay hain.

    comon guys, preserve your venom for amriki shaitaan and yahood-o-nasara.

    and oh yaad aya…lawayers rally main bhi tu jana hai….ifthikar chaurdy ko job jo dilwani hai punjabi quotay per

  83. balma on February 23rd, 2009 @ 8:28 pm

    Wasiq, hazrat eesaa shaam kee masjid kay minar per utrai’n gae aur toomhaari phainTee lagaae’n gae!

  84. balma on February 23rd, 2009 @ 8:29 pm

    Usually, bachho’n, when you see KabirDas and Allama Balma going back and forth on a thread, and no one else in contributing, that is usually the end of a thread.

  85. fasee on February 23rd, 2009 @ 8:53 pm

    @ balma

    So is it the harbringer of death of the discussions or there discussion forces others to runaway…..??

    Point to ponder

  86. بستنی (wasiq) on February 23rd, 2009 @ 10:56 pm

    Balma jee….humaray cable main christian science monitor wala channel nahein aata….aap hee bata doo naa…woh raat ko kahan kayam farmaein gay…?

  87. fasee on February 23rd, 2009 @ 11:52 pm

    raat ka kiyaam saghiyaa-e-raaz mian rakha giya hai…

    sirf yeh farmaya unhu nay ik ada say

    " samjha karoo..janum samjha karoo"

  88. بستنی (wasiq) on February 24th, 2009 @ 12:04 pm

    ok fine …but breakfast toh Kiran aur George kay saath he ho ga na…?

  89. kabirdas on February 24th, 2009 @ 10:36 pm

    @ balma
    A large number of people in Pakistan will give you a large number of reasons for being anti Punjabi. I have just one reason. I have lately been brain washed by my good brother barrister to believe that it is better to be a pig than be a Punjabi. So that’s what has now made me anti Punjabi and at the same time pro pigs:-)

  90. kabirdas on February 24th, 2009 @ 10:48 pm

    @ fasee " ….ifthikar chaurdy ko job jo dilwani hai punjabi quotay per"

    Sir, you may laugh but I will be there not to Iftikhar Chaudhri ko job diwanay but to bihal karwanay not on Punjabi quota but on Pakistani quota.

  91. kabirdas on February 24th, 2009 @ 11:03 pm

    @ fasee
    Sorry, forgot to mention that the Dharna (and Marna) will take place on IDEES of March!! Does the Idees of March ring a bell? If not please refer to the play Julius Ceaser by Shakespere where Julius Ceaser is warned of the ominus Idees of March by a soothsayer.

  92. kabirdas on February 24th, 2009 @ 11:16 pm

    Guys and gals:
    Say what you want to say about Mullah but do acknowlege the fact that he has won the first round in Swat. Much though I detest the Mullah and what he stands for my hat off to him on his victory in Swat which may have a domino effect in the rest of Pakistan as well. You will now be well advised to play your music at low volume or better still not play it at all. Do you hear me????

  93. بستنی (wasiq) on February 25th, 2009 @ 7:28 am

    @KD….double standerds on all counts SIR….first of all you were protesting against the loud speakers used by the mosques in your neighborhood…and now you are scaring or forewarning the kids for the low volume of music…strange…
    your philosophy about the punjabi’s is very complicated….all my life i’ve heard very different pet names for them such as 4 wheel drives,germans etc never this one….you and honorable Barrister sab may have a very different experience from mine…i will continue to drink Lassi this summer whether it’s halal or not for you…according to your philosophy.

    kaway dil bar bar tu mera piya yaar..

  94. fasee on February 25th, 2009 @ 9:34 am

    @ kabirdas.

    yar, kabhi samnay miltay, tu aap ke sath aik lambi behas hoti…email per tu type ker ker ke mar jata hai banda aur dosra convince nahe hota.

    samnay honay ka ik faida yeh bhi hota hai ke agar banda convince na ho tu physical tashadud say usay apna "nukta-e-nazar" pe qa’il kiya ja sakta hai…lol

    anyways..back to the topic……while i apprictae your and all like you’s emotions and inspirations for a good society in future.( inside my heart i yearn for that too brother.

    khair…you know why i hate that no good topi drama named ifthikhar chaurdy…..bcoz this simple jazbati nation is placing its bets on the wrong horse.

    i have this FIRM belife that police, judges, income tax and customs main koi shareef banda ya tu hota naeh hai…ya wahan ke process sa kharab hu chuka hota hai…..ik banda jo top of the game hu us system ka..woh sharaif kabhi naeh hosakta…its simple comon sense.

    secondly…..i like imran khan..bcoz he is open about his past…bura kiya tha tu manta hai..itni MORAL COURAGE hai us banday main……but look at this guy…look at the debats in his favour….loog isay farishta bana ker present kertay hain…which is disgusting at best……hypocracy hai…fabrication hai……look who is suporting this guy..types of aitazaz ahsan & hameed gul…with ugly muddy pasts… logon say shareef aur kum kanday zameer ke log tu pan ki dukan per mil jatay hain…..

    i dont want to listen to lectures of ethics from these ugly crimnals…it insults my intelect and my comon sense to belive in such guys to be my saviours… say tu zardari acha hai..kameena hai tu apnay aap ko wali ya farishta tu nahe kehta..jaisya yeh kehta phirta hai……sorry if i hurt ya, as most of people around me gets offended ke main un ke JUDGE ko bura kahoon…..see thast another of these points…..we are making his a cult figure….unaprocahable…un critiszeable….dont you think we alerady have enough ugly cult figures already..

  95. fasee on February 25th, 2009 @ 9:35 am

    @ wasiq.

    yaar punjabion mian lakh buraiyan hoon per kuch bhi kahoo salay halwa puri bus yehi loog bana saktay hain…sara karachi dhoondh liiya per lahor ki halwa puri ki baat hi alag hai….dont tu forget the lassi ka jug…what they call a chota glass there..:)

  96. ambreenmirza on February 25th, 2009 @ 10:10 am



  97. kabirdas on February 25th, 2009 @ 11:20 am

    @ wasiq

    Sir, your accusing me of double standards is like accusing a firefighter who is fighting a bush fire and at the same time is warning the residents of the surrounding area to take due precautions against it.

    What is so complicated about my philosphy about the Punjabis. Untill recently I thought Punjabis were great people to fly with. And then came my kid brother barrister on KMB who told me Punjabis were worse than the pigs. I have great regard for barrister’s family back ground, intellect and education. So lacking all these plus points and being a Pandu myself I readily agreed with him and decided to disassociate myself from the Punjabis and associate with the pigs which was the only alternative available to me. I couldn’t convert into a Mohajir much though I would have liked to do that for not being able to meet two important prerequisites for such a conversion. Firstly it would have been impossible for me to do Hijrat to some place from my Pind in Punjab. Secondly I wouldn’t have been able to start pronoucing K (Kaaf) as Q (Qaaf) so late in my life notwithstanding my command of Urdu language otherwise of which I am so proud. By the way the fact that I like pigs is another matter. It is such a cute animal. I would love to have one as a pet.

    Please continue to drink lassi as you desire and let me continue drinking beer which I love. Both are gift of Gods to us.

    Take care and turn down the volume of your music:-)

  98. kabirdas on February 25th, 2009 @ 11:41 am

    @ fasee on February 25th

    KD will respond to your referenced comments in due course. KD’s wife has just now told him to get off the computer and get on with his ‘To Do List’ in the house otherwise she is going to unplug the computer. To tell you the truth if there is anyone who terrorizes KD more than a terrorist it is she! KD is really so scared of her:-)

  99. kabirdas on February 25th, 2009 @ 12:00 pm

    @ fasee on February 25th

    Sir, what are you talking about? These ‘sala’ punjabis are only good at cooking Saag and Corn bread. At one time they used to eat bread just with Piaz and gulp it down with their ‘Mashroob-e-Punjab’ lassi and be content with it. It was their interaction with UP walas that they learned the art of cooking.
    If you want to eat genuine Halwa Puri and not no.2 Halwa Puri and also drink Lassi go to good old Buns road. During my time in Karachi the name of the place serving excellent lassi there was ‘Dilbahar Lassi’. Wonder if that joint is still there. I stopped going there after I tasted beer and never felt the need thereafter to look back again :-)

  100. fasee on February 25th, 2009 @ 12:17 pm

    @ KD.

    lol…your comments to wasuq just stole my heart….nothing i like more than the subtle gestures of anyone…

    bythe way…you should have done some background check before you got hitched….for any aldaeda connections…but guess its too late for that.

  101. fasee on February 25th, 2009 @ 12:19 pm

    PS…i didnt knew you were from punjab….i have some of my best friends from there and me not a rascist…..but being in karaachi for last 10 years…i just love to act like one… this mega city is cursed to be overpopluated with rascits of one kind or another.

    be it ethnic or religious or many divides in on ecity…mujhay advance maths ka graph paper yaad a jata hai.

  102. بستنی (wasiq) on February 25th, 2009 @ 6:32 pm

    @fasee sab….me not a rascist….The nixon speaks….

    @madame mirza…..seems like a blessing in disguise to me…anyways I am sorry…

    @KD sarkar….no wonder its taking so long….
    and by the way give my best regards to your lovely wife….is it another case of uncompatible Beta…

    @everbody….it was the final chahar shamba of safar 1430h…all the windows were open black or white…..repeatedly reciting the sixth kalima….and I thought they were doing it because of me….. better luck next time…lol

  103. balma on February 25th, 2009 @ 9:22 pm

    By the way, guys, lassee is not panjabi by race. Lots of places in India, including UP, lassee is quite popular and has nothing to do with Panjab. Though, people in Karachi for some reason associate it with Panjab.

  104. balma on February 25th, 2009 @ 9:23 pm


    kambakhto’n, angraizi sahee bola karo.

  105. kabirdas on February 25th, 2009 @ 11:09 pm

    @ fasee on February 25th

    What does ‘aldaeda’ mean ? Couldn’t find this word in dictionary.

    Do you really think the background check would have helped ? Do you mean to say that some females are different from others ? And if some females are different from others do you think a female will ever show her true colours before her marriage ?

  106. kabirdas on February 25th, 2009 @ 11:27 pm

    @ fasee on February 25th

    Unfortunately I do come from Punjab. Now that being a racist is in vogue in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan I have also decided to be one. However, to be on the safe side I have started to dislike only the Punjabis like every body else. So please feel free to call me a pig if you like but don’t call me a Punjabi. I am not biased against pigs. As a matter of fact I consider pig a lovable animal (no pun is intended).

  107. kabirdas on February 25th, 2009 @ 11:40 pm

    @ wasiq on February 25th

    No sir, it is not another case of incompatability. I would call it the usual case of incompatability between a male and female which started from Adam and Eve and continues todate or started with the evolution of sexes some 3.5 billion years ago and continues todate.

  108. kabirdas on February 25th, 2009 @ 11:49 pm

    @ balma on February 25th
    You may be right about the ethnicity of lassi. I always thought it to be a Mashroob of Punjab.
    However, the Karachites perhaps associate it with Punjab because they don’t like lassi :-)

  109. kabirdas on February 26th, 2009 @ 12:03 am

    Guys this afternoon when I heard the news of Dogar court’s decision in respect of Sharifs I got so worked up that I told my wife that I feel like becoming a suicide bomber and blowing myself next to Zardari. You won’t believe what she told me in response to this.
    She told me: ‘Talk comes cheap. I refuse to believe you can do that. Yes, I will believe you after you have blown yourself up next to Zardari.’

  110. balma on February 26th, 2009 @ 12:26 am

    KabirDas sahib,
    bhaabhi kee baato’n say lagtaa hae keh voh aap per apnee jaan chiRRaktee hae’n aur aap say nihaayat zyaadah mohubat kartee hai’n:-)

    haa-ae haa-ae, ab aisee mohabbut karnay vaalee beveeyaa’n kahaan miltee hai’n!

    Perhaps, she wants to prove her love with an opportunity to perform ‘Sattee". But, for her to prove her love via sattee: pehley aap ko jaanaa ho gaa!

    I will suggest, you file a case in islamabad against Zardari’s NRO deal. Yeah, you may disappear as a result.
    But this is like killing two birds with the same stone.
    Aik teer say dou shikaar.
    Aap kee dil kee bhaRaas bhee nikal jaa-ae gee, aur bhaabi kee dil kee murad bhee poori ho jaa-ae gee….

    bw, in today’s WSJ there is a news item about a hindu couple in Haryana that converted to Islam so they could marry (2nd one for both). The guy is Haryana’s ex Vice-chief Minister. baRay mazay kee khabar hae, and very sansanee khaiz.

  111. kabirdas on February 26th, 2009 @ 12:32 am

    @ ambreenmirza on February 25th

    Ma’am, don’t worry too much about it. Very soon our democratically elected President duly dry cleaned by NRO (and chosen by an act of God so it seems) is soon going to set everything right with the help of his cronies Dogar etc.
    However, in the meantime, to be on the safe side, play your music low. I surrounded by three mosques have now altogether stopped playing my favourite 5th symphony of Beethven which required high volume for its right effect. Instead I have now started playing Bach’s famous Requiem which sounds best at low volume.

    HairaN hooN rouN dil ko kay PeetooN jigar ko maiN
    Maqdoor ho tou pass rakhooN noha gar ko maiN

  112. balma on February 26th, 2009 @ 12:32 am

    I have yet to meet anyone in Karachi who says they don’t like lassee.

    Though it has been years, that I had a lassee. I try to watch my figure:-)

    I will make a point that before tea became popular in India, most people probably did drink lassee.

  113. kabirdas on February 26th, 2009 @ 12:52 am

    Balma jee both lassi and tea are good but beer is the best. It is the only drink which gives you the feelings, for a change, that it is better to be alive than dead. And I think perhaps this is the reason why God introduced man to it before he introduced him to reading and writing which is a fact of history.

  114. balma on February 26th, 2009 @ 3:10 am

    I get jhurjhuries from thinking what if someone in S w a t is tracking your postings!

  115. بستنی (wasiq) on February 26th, 2009 @ 7:10 am

    the rabiul awaal moon not sighted…loud speakers ka aik din ka kiraya bach giya….allah ho akber.!

    @KD sarkar… your reply to me you sound vey convincing…but what happened later on…is beyond my wildest imagination….please don’t mind Balma jee….he probably uses the phelo ay laila(laptop)in a gosha ay aafiyat (toilet)…and watches Bar Rafaeli in thongs all day….
    sir I don’t no if you were here three summers back… because the NRO deal started right here on kmb with my unrelated comment…when sombody introduced a french portrait of the late mohtarma…i when ga ga over it…!anyway
    now is the right time when we make up our minds very clear about why we want the honerable ex cheif justice of pakistan mr choudary ….
    to the best of my knowledge and belief….he messed up big time by playing with past, present and future of the people and the country….
    1.stopped the sale of pakistan steel to a brittish group Mittal pakistan steel as you all may remember was built by bhutto for the russians is still run by the russians they even have a beach call russian beach i think of visiting every day…
    2.banned the serving of food at marriage ceremonies (no comment)
    3.tried to impose a ban (suo moto) on basant festival not just flying kites
    and there may be other things as well since I am not interested in doing a research on him at the moment…the three are enough for me to say…Sir you are FIRED !

  116. kabirdas on February 26th, 2009 @ 6:58 pm

    @ balma

    Balma jee I was going to write more on this sbject (apnay dil ki bhiras nikalnay kay liay) but then I suddenly remembered something which I read long time back and decided to refrain from it. What I read was in ‘ The Pleasures of Philosphy’ by Will Durant in a chapter titled Men and Women subchapter The War of Love as follows:

    Gorki and Tchekov were walking in the Crimea. They came upon Tolstoi as he sat on the bench, his great head bent in mediation, his beared sweeping the sand. They squatted down beside him, and began to talk about women. For a long time Tolstoi listened in silence. Then suddenly he said: " And I will tell the truth about women only when I have one foot in the grave. I shall tell it, jump into my coffin, pull the lid over me, and say, ‘Do what you like with me now.’"

    Bernard Shaw, invited by Count Keyserling to contribute an essay to ‘ The Book of Marriage’, refused, saying, " No man dare write the truth about marriage while his wife lives."

    So let us forget about the wives and talk about our other enemy the Mullah:-)

  117. kabirdas on February 26th, 2009 @ 7:19 pm

    @ balma on February 26th

    Sir, jhurjhury or kapkapi ?? I think you are confusing kapkapi with jhurjhury which is a different thing.

    I have lived long enough. Let them come for me. I have always told the truth albiet behind ones back ( telling the truth on ones face is rude so I avoid it)and keep doing so till I live or die. I say live or die because right now I am living dead.

  118. kabirdas on February 26th, 2009 @ 7:24 pm

    @ wasiq: " the rabiul awaal moon not sighted…loud speakers ka aik din ka kiraya bach giya….allah ho akber.!"

    And we for one day Mullah ki sama khrashi say bach gay. But as they say bakray ki MaN kab tak khair manay gee ?

  119. بستنی (wasiq) on February 26th, 2009 @ 10:31 pm

    @ KD sarkar…..wah wah bakrey ka quorma….wah wah…aik ajeeb se baat yeah hai kay hum log mulla specify nahein kar paay….yani kay jo tv aur music system ko break karey ya ban karey woh bhi mulla aur jo load speaker pey sabzi beychey woh bhi mulla…how is that possible..?

    @fasee sab window saath chordh gaie….microsoft sab ki shararat maaloom deyti hai…kehtey hain genuine nahein…halaan kay….

    patta patta bota bota hal humara janey hai
    janey na janey gul hi na janey bagh toh sara janey hai

  120. fasee on February 26th, 2009 @ 10:44 pm

    @ wasiq
    before calling me rascist…define what rascist is ( bill clintion say yehi sekha hai)

    @ balma.
    yara pechlay murday kon ukharay, zulekha paida kaheen bhi hoi hu..dekhna yeh hota hai ke zulekha aaj kaal roti kahan banati hai.

    lassi is a favourit drink in they deserve to call it there own.

    salay karanchi ke log tu chai pe pe ker kalay howya jatay hain…baki kasar pepsi pi pi ker daant pelay aur cigrate pe pe ker phapray kali aur rahi sahe kasar gutka kha ker mouth cancer kernay main busy rehtay hain…lassi petay tu kuch sehat hi banti.

    and whoever think ANYWHERE in karachi there can be a lassi better than lahore, is high on beer,acid, LCD or somethin..( same goes for halwa puri )….if someone ate hulwapuri from liberty lahore…he wont like puri from anywhere else in the world….its just marvelous.

    @ kabeerdas.

    sir jee aap say tu lamba jhagra hu ga..

    firstly aginst beer i have many things… makes you fat…gives you a bear belly… cheap ( chotay logon ki giza ) does not have class earned by vintage wines….marketed in cans, drums etc takes half the class away……

    secondly i meant to say Al-qaeda not aldaeda..but this silly bog dont give me right to amend a post…or somethign i dont know about here.

    as for being rascist…..well i am not….but having lived a good part of my jawani in punjab and dhalti hui jawni in karachi….i have a FAIR idea how rascist aginst urdu speaking punjabis are…..some ON YOUR FACE…some with sugar coating…but most are….evn my best of friends…used to restrain themselves just for my my absence they had there hearts content.

    so i just learned that……in front of punjabis / sindhis / mohajirs / pathans / shia / sunnni /deobandi i never say anythign bad bout there sect of ethnicty….and al love me for this…..but whenver i ma alone or am anyonomus or with my friends…i use my choiesiet of words for all ehtnicities and sects around me….

    i just call it fun for the sake of fun….no hard feelings…..i dont do rasicsm while interviewing for job..or making lobbies in office or neighbourhood..what most ugly rascist scums do..pigs or no pigs…..

    sir after ifthikar more pig on the line ( no pun intended as this name suits nawaz better )…..if he didnt belived in those courts why he went there.
    chit bhi apni pat bhi apni chayee is ko.
    i remeber they all contested elections under protest, or to serve paksitan….whoz pakistan they have served till now….wsiay yeh rule sari MPAs and MNAs per apply hota hai.

    thats why i just hate all politiciasn ( and judges )..salay saray hi harami hain….why do i have to waste some time for them on stgreets….salay sab apna mufaad dhondtay hain….

    i would prefer to watch some ikhlak se giri hoi movies on DVD instead..and be more benefitiatal to society then to vote or be part of a movement for any of those politicisans…..i try best to serve this society but never want ot be part of the political system..i love this contruy….but only 2 people who i truly loved as pakistanis/…..
    1 ) quaid-0e-azam ( we never did justice to that guy )
    2) Dr qadeer khan ( same here )

    baki jo bhi aya pigs ke khandan sya aya hai ya ayee ga……hamra koi nahe ata ……

    mutapha kamal is trying hard to be on my third spot list as he is really a gem of a guy breaking moulds and sterotypes around him.

  121. بستنی (wasiq) on February 26th, 2009 @ 11:01 pm

    @fasee sab….dear sir you claimed it yourself….that you are an equal oppertunity rascist…only last week…
    clinton sab toh woh kuch sika gaay hain kay…..per aap toh sirf bhombat aur gutkay kay dewaney hain….aap ki inn hee harkatoun ki waja se….hillary khala…cheen se wapas challi gaein….hum ney kya kya aur kis kis se borrow karney ka plan banaya tha…jeans kisi ki t shirt kisi ki….joggers light house kay…etc etc..

    maikadey bandh karein lakh zamaney waley
    shehre main kam nahein aankhoun se pila ney waley

  122. kabirdas on February 26th, 2009 @ 11:06 pm

    @ wasiq

    A Mullah is a Mullah is a Mullah. All of them are ake hee Thalee kay chattay battay. They all are against TV and music and they all love to sing their own centuries old songs on loud speakers.

    They are all our moral luminaries defined by my Guru, Bertrand Russell as follows:

    ‘The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others.’
    (yani na khuD khadan gay na kisay hore noo khadan daiN gay)

    They all fear nothing but free thought again like my Guru BR said:

    ‘ [They] fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth — more than ruin — more even than death…. Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid. Thought is great and swift and free, the light of the world, and the chief glory of man.’

    No wonder they prefer to commit suicide than let free thought flourish.

  123. fasee on February 26th, 2009 @ 11:18 pm

    @ wasiq

    Sir first we have to prove woh me ne likh tha, ya identity theft ka case tha kisi hacker ka kamal, ya bambaat pee kay, bakol-e-shair, bakta rahta hoon alam-e-junoo me kiya kiya kuch.

    So sir…saaf mukar jain gay jab kabhi hosh me ain gay

    @ KD

    Ap ke angrizi peer saab bhi kiya tun party thay….bcoz apnay abdualah gazi ke mazar per Tun party malang bhi charas ka cigrate pee ke aisay hi batin kerta tha kuch urnay kuch flying wlying type ke….yaad is liye nai raha ke sath wala airbus main hi chala raha tha

  124. بستنی (wasiq) on February 26th, 2009 @ 11:22 pm

    you and your guru may be right to some extent….but in a class of say 50 pupil only one or two has a brain….usually….so why should everybody be forced to think like a philosoper….why can’t we be allowed to be happy as a bee….

  125. بستنی (wasiq) on February 26th, 2009 @ 11:35 pm

    @ fasee sab….huzoor aaj se lent 2009 start ho giya hai…iss lian mein woh mazay mazey ki hikayatein repeat nahein kar sakta….warna mein janey do double hai kehta aur aap khud hee dourdh kay chahrd jaatey….i think you know yourself much better than i have concieved your image in the past few weeks

  126. fasee on February 26th, 2009 @ 11:46 pm

    Bhulla ki jana main kaun…

    Mujhay mast mahool me jenay day

    Mufat ki kup’pi peenay day

  127. kabirdas on February 27th, 2009 @ 12:08 am

    @ wasiq on February 26th

    You seem to have misunderstood what free thought is. Free thought you may say is freedom to think freely about any subject without remaining within the bounds of orthodox views and taboos and if you come to certain conclusions to express them freely without any let or hindrance from any quarters. There have been a large number of Muslim scholors, thinkers and philosphers but only two of them, Ibn Sina and Ibn Rushd, are regrded as free thinkers and mind you they were persecuted by the orthodox.

    By the way same was the case in Europe during dark ages. The case of Galileo is a classic example of persecution of a free thinker.

    The following quote of BR in regard to Aquinas which is true of most of our scholors, past and present, may give you some idea of what free thinking means:

    " There is little of the true philosphic spirit in Aquinas. He does not, like the Platonic Socrates, set out to to follow wherever the argument may lead. He is not engaged in an enquiry, the result of which it is impossible to know in advance. Before he begins to philosophise, he already knows the truth; it is declared in the Catholic faith. If he can find apparently rational arguments for some parts of the faith, so much the better; if he cannot, he only to fall back on revelation. The finding of arguments for a conclusion given in advance is not philosphy, but special pleading.

    (BR- Histtory of Western Philosphy)———–

  128. balma on February 27th, 2009 @ 1:46 am

    Fasiq and Wasee,

    Don’t mess around with our man, KD, here. He may be only 30 years old, but he is way smarter than you guys are!

  129. بستنی (wasiq) on February 27th, 2009 @ 7:54 am

    @KD sarkar……i am so glad that you mentioned my friend galileo…by inventing the telescope….he helped millions of stockers over the centuries… far as his free thinking is concerned..they were not afraid of his free thinking….they only wanted to be sure there will not be another leaning tower in the city….
    same is the case with most free thinkers and philosophers of any given time…some of them are not able to prove what they say and thus are subjected to critisism and persecution…..a pilot has to have a number of flying hours experience and a badge on his/her uniform before you would fasten the seat belts…wont you….

  130. khaled90 on February 27th, 2009 @ 9:03 am

    Pathan terrorism against the innocent men women and children of karachi.

    This is also a reminder for the people who said we don’t like MQM as all this is against urdu speaking people they didn’t ask the people are you from MQM or not they just picked all the urdu speaks robbed them and tortured them.

    Keep sleeping urdu speaks.

  131. khaled90 on February 27th, 2009 @ 9:04 am

    any comments my dearest bloggers here ?

  132. fasee on February 27th, 2009 @ 9:30 am

    @ balma.

    sir je wo tu main aur wasiq akeela banda dekeh ker, her pakistani ki tarhana kamzoor per bharam jhaar raahay thay…..un ka tu goth uth ker a giya…so chalo wasiq kisi aur kamzoor ko dekhntay hain…

    @ wasiq
    yeh log kiya janay, charas pee ker kaisay free thinking ati hai…

    bakol shair" Hai zalim, ke tu nai pee hi nahee"

    PS: @ Balma
    KD might be hell lot smarter then both of us combined…but this in pakistan..and jamhoriyat…in which two votes are better then one.
    tu bus hum jeet gai aur KD haar giya…..

    aur nahe mano ga tu hum press club ka bahar hungama karain gay ke faisla hamray huq main nahe aya…hum tyre jalain gay….aur bar councils ka ijlas bhi bura idea nai hai waisy :P

  133. بستنی (wasiq) on February 27th, 2009 @ 4:08 pm

    @fasee sab….sir free thinking karo ….mein yeah nahein kehta kay nahein karo…per rickshaw aur truck sardak pey chalao…!(iss kay agay wala portion has been moderated due to lent….aleluya!)

    @balma jee….can you narrate what’s in the video…in a less hurtful… windows is jammed….

  134. kabirdas on February 27th, 2009 @ 8:15 pm

    @ balma on February 27th

    Thanks for a good piece of advice to Fasiq and wasee. They should indeed not mess around with KD knowing he happens to be a Paindu. Sometimes choontioN kay bhee par nikal aataiN haiN.

    As far as his age is concerned he is not 30 years old. He is much much older than that. He started the journey of his life, like everybody else, some 3.5 billion years ago as a strange molecule having an interesting property of replicating itself.

    He is smart but not as smart as an estate agent or a shop keeper. He easily gets fooled by either of them and their ilks.

    His only smartness is that he acknowledges his ignorance and is keen to learn from his juniors and peers having fresh ideas. His seniors have either ended the journey of their life or are in a pit devoid of new ideas or if moving then moving in a rut.

  135. fasee on February 27th, 2009 @ 8:43 pm

    balma emotional sensors already in overdirve…tum replay kerwa kerwa ker..wo bhi slow motion main..kiyon us ki chip uranay ke mood main hu

  136. kabirdas on February 27th, 2009 @ 9:00 pm

    @ wasiq on February 27th

    Sir, good comments but please allow me to say that:

    a. Galelio was not the inventer of telescope. A dutch scientist whose name right now I can’t remember was the inventer of telescope. Galileo got hold of one such telescope and improved upon it.

    b. He had nothing to do with the leaning tower of Pisa. His famous experiment of droping two balls of different weights from it to show that they will fall to earth at the same time is just a myth. He proved this experimentally by rolling balls of various weights on inclined plane.

    c. He was found guilty of believing the earth is not the centre of the universe and that it revolves around sun which was against the Church’s doctrine based on Aristotle’s science.

    d. Free thinkers were persecuted for anything that they said which was not inline with the official view of of the clergy and Church. Their objection to science was that it keeps changing. My Guru has this to say on this subject inhis essay titled ‘Education and the Social Order’:

    " Who ever heard of a theologian prefacing his creed, or a politician concluding his speeches, with a statement as to the probable error in his opinions? It is an odd fact that subjective certainity is inversely proportional to objective certainity. The less reason a man has to suppose himself in the right, the more vehemently he asserts that there is no doubt whatever that he is exactly right. It is a practice of theologians to laugh at science because it changes. ‘LOOK at us,’ they say. ‘WHAT we asserted at the COUNCIL OF NICEA we still assert; whereas what scientist asserted only two or three years ago is already forgotten and antiquated.’ Men who speak in this way have not grasped the great idea of successive approximations."

    At the end you very rightly say: ‘a pilot has to have a number of flying hours experience and a badge on his/her uniform before you would fasten the seat belts…wont you….’

    Yes, I wont. Sameway I will not take as agosple truth (pun is intended)what a free thinker has to say. My Guru BR the greatest free thinker of 20th century has this to say about it:

    "I think we ought always to entertain our opinions with some measure of doubt. I shouldn’t wish people dogmatically to believe any philosophy, not even mine."


    "I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."

    Have a nice day or night as the case may be.

  137. kabirdas on February 27th, 2009 @ 9:25 pm

    @ fasee on February 27th

    Sir, what are you talking about? What Haar and what Jeet. I never compete. I try to learn in any way I can. I have nothing against you.

    Ho ustad-e-shah say mujhay purkhash ka khial
    Yay taab yay majal yay taqaT nahiN mujhay

    If you insist in measuring our discussion in terms of win and loss then you indeed win by virtue of your numbers and democratic principal notwithstanding what Churchill said about democracy .

    " The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."

    Ho roo-e-sukhun kissi kee taraf tou roo siah

  138. بستنی (wasiq) on February 28th, 2009 @ 7:54 am

    @KD sarkar….sir I delibrately took up the galileo because I had a hunch that you might say this….and left aquinas and the two muslims who are a better friends of mine….
    it is very true that galileo did not invent the telescope but he was the first mortal soul to become immortal….by showing them the black prince through it….which proves that they were very fond of him…as much as they were fond of aristole…and his followers….the thing is that when you are in a position of power over cabagges…you also have to think more about your own head than a free thinker’s who wants nothing from you yet wants to completely change your ideology and beliefs… thank god we have quran a divine code that explains a lot of things that they had to wonder about….but now if we go on free thinking as you my friend and well wisher wants….than there is a better chance that we might dicover a whole lot more than what they in there time did….so

  139. khaled90 on February 28th, 2009 @ 12:45 pm

    Sindh Police Endorses Altaf Hussain and MQM fears about Strong Taliban Network in Karachi.

    The People denying the talibans presence in karachi are enemies of karachi and the people of karachi as they want these Qatil Talibans to crush MQM and Mohajirs in karachi.

    These Talibans are inside illegally occupied Pathan populations and that is the reason why ANP and others are denying the facts about talibans as most of the pathan population have sympathy with these talibans due to their common ethnicity.

  140. fasee on March 1st, 2009 @ 12:28 pm

    yaar amaray ko aee bataoo aee free thinking say apnay ghar ka chola jaal sakta aee ke nai.

    is say apnay bachoon ka roti shoti mil sakta hai….ya is ko chai me daal ker dooth patti bansakta aee ke nai….

    agar naik tu choro yaar …umm ko niswar khaanay do…mazdoori pe jana aee

  141. بستنی (wasiq) on March 1st, 2009 @ 12:39 pm

    @fasee sab….if you ask me….this is also a kind of free thinking….you are guilty as charged…!

    Ye Tara Wo Tara Har Tara,
    Ye Tara Wo Tara Har Tara, Dekho

  142. kabirdas on March 1st, 2009 @ 1:15 pm

    @ fasee

    Sir, as far as I know in the West when free thought came and the power of priests and Church declined and God took the back seat har ghar maiN choolah jalnay lag gay aur har ghar maiN roshnai ho gai.
    Strangulation of free thought means freezing yourself in time, living in past wasting most of your energy on proving and pretending it was a glorious past which a study of history shows it wasn’t at least compared to what it could be now in 21 century.
    I hope I have answered your question to your satisfaction

  143. kabirdas on March 1st, 2009 @ 2:18 pm

    Al Razi ( AD 865 to AD 925) was a famous physician and authors of many books on the subject. He was highly critical of religions and wrote three books on the subject:
    1. The Prophets’ Fraudulent Tricks
    2. The Stratagems of Those Who Claim to Be Prophets
    3. Refutation of Revealed Religions
    I may agree or disagree with what he had to say about religions is immaterial. He was what I call a free thinker. He was highly critical of the lack of interest among religious adherents in the rational analysis of their beliefs, and the violent reaction which takes its place. I do tend to agree with him when he says:

    "If the people of this religion are asked about the proof for the soundness of their religion, they flare up, get angry and spill the blood of whoever confronts them with this question. They forbid rational speculation, and strive to kill their adversaries. This is why truth became thoroughly silenced and concealed."

    I also tend to agree with Al Razi that common people are continuously being deceived by religious figures and reason for it as given by him:

    " Because they are deluded by the beards of the goats, who sit in ranks in their councils, straining their throats in recounting lies, senseless myths and "so-and-so told us in the name of so-and-so…"

  144. odin on March 1st, 2009 @ 5:18 pm


    I didn’t find these book of Al-Razi, that you mentioned in your post, on Amazon. Are they available on the Internet to read or to download?

  145. odin on March 1st, 2009 @ 5:34 pm

    About two hundred years ago someone said: inn hindustanio’n (i.e. today’s Pakistanis included)

    Actually only those people living in Haryana, UP, MP and Bihar are called Hindustanis (i.e those who speak Hindustani). About two hundreds years ago the Indus Valley was inhabited by Punjabis, Afghans, Balochs and Sindhis, back then the term Hindustani was unknown word to those people.

    I agree with the rest of your post though.

  146. kabirdas on March 1st, 2009 @ 6:07 pm

    @ Odin

    I haven’t seen or read these books. My attention to Al Raza was drawn by someone in some other blog. I googled for Al Raza and got to know about him, his achievements and his books in Wikipedia. It was there that I saw some of his quotes from his books on religion. Some of these quotes are very very harsh to be quoted here.
    Suggest you may read about Al Raza and what he had to say about religion in the Wilkipedia. I intend to do some more research on Al Raza but don’t find time for it.

  147. kabirdas on March 1st, 2009 @ 6:13 pm

    @ odin on March 1st

    Sir, to which post of ‘balma’ you are referring to. Can you please indicate the date of his post for my benefit.

  148. odin on March 1st, 2009 @ 6:15 pm


    Sir, I have read about Al-Razi in Wpidia and in some other websites. I have followed many discussion about Al-Razi on different Blogs and have read all these quotations umpteen times and have seen many people referring to his books but no one ever could tell me where his books are available to read. Anyway, thanks for your reply.

  149. odin on March 1st, 2009 @ 6:17 pm


    To this post on this thread.
    balma on February 18th, 2009 @ 8:19 pm

  150. fasee on March 1st, 2009 @ 10:55 pm

    @ KD
    Sir i might be a moral deviant by society standards..or even in my own eyes not a perfect muslims…as no body is…..per agin kuch aitraz hain meray ko.

    our society is stuck between extremists of two types….one the myopic mullahs and second the bikini clad modrenists.

    both serve no good to the society..infact tearing it apart….Al-razi..i havent read him..will do in afew days..but whatever you typed of this guy…i would initially classify him into that type of extremeist who are bakini clad.

    i mean…i am a moderensit…..which come under fire form both sides….mulahs call us buger bhatkay huway log..and westrens call us modren version of taliban…..anyways…what we do is…insetad of critisizing we try to find out a existence for both of us…islam being our religion and world being our life…..why leave one for the other.

    i know you will say the age old cliche..that both are anti of the other..they cant co exist…..and i say….shuning one thing is the easiest part… and adjusting tweakign things is the tough part…..we all look for easy solutions…..once an athesist myself…i am on my journey to islam… half way there…adn dont call my self a born muslim…but i classify myself as a convert.

    central point…mullah ko bura kehan asaan hai…throw all stones at him…..btu what we did for our religion…..laat maar ker orphan ke tarhan nikal diya….ke co-exist nahe ker saktay….kahan gai hamari intelect..hamra IQ jis ka hum dawa kertay hain….whats our contribution to it except table talk…??

    sir isi myopic thought ko to mazhab say khatam kerna hota hai..aur apni thought lani hoti hai…..that i am religiously doing….or lets say trying to do

  151. balma on March 2nd, 2009 @ 9:56 am

    The phrase I was referring to is not an exact quote. The person I am quoting though is known as Lord McAuley (spelling?). He was referring to the people of India (how ever you want to translate it)….which to East India company (and to me) live from Khyber to Cox Bazar.

    Of course, stricly speaking hindustan is the land around Ganga and Jamna….but these are geographical descriptives….but I used the word ‘Hindustan’ as a general reference to the land the Lord was referring to…i.e. the sub-continent.

  152. odin on March 2nd, 2009 @ 4:41 pm

    Call it India, British India to be more precisely.

    Sometimes I wonder how easily we accept every identity that is imposed on us by those who have no freaking idea about the culture, languages, or history of the people of our part of the world.

  153. balma on March 2nd, 2009 @ 7:25 pm

    Hindustan => industan => Indus => India => Ind => Hind => Hindustan =>……

    Odin, what is your point?

  154. kabirdas on March 2nd, 2009 @ 11:36 pm

    @ balma and odin

    1. I feel strictly speaking Odin may be right when he says that the term Hindoustani applies to only those who spoke Hindoustani language (Urdu/Hindi) ie people living in Haryana, UP, MP and Bihar etc.
    2. I also feel that McCauley may have used this term in its broader sense and implied all the people of the sub-continent living from Khyber to Cox’s Bazar.
    3. I remember soon after partition only Urdu speaking Mohajirs from across the border used to be referred to as Hindoustani. This term was not used for other non-Urdu speaking mohajirs like Punjabis from East Punjab or Memon etc.
    4. As a matter of fact I often wondered at the time why Urdu speaking mohajirs were referred to as Hindustani when all of us happened to be Hindustani. Today, after many decades, this mystery has been solved for me by Odin who says the term Hinustani, strictly speaking, applies to Hinustani speaking people only. Nevertheless, I am sure McCauly did not have this in mind when he said what he said. He would have said this like an Indian/Pakistan may refer to all the residents of Sctoland, Ireland, Whales and England as English which we often do.

  155. balma on March 3rd, 2009 @ 6:51 am

    I guess the term Hindustan is quite undefined. When Mughal emperors claimed baadshaahi of hindustan, they didn’t just mean Dehli or UP.

    I guess the term Hind is from Sindh or Indus River. So actually, what is today Pakistan is the real Hindustan. Kabirdas sahib, don’t feel left out. You are indeed a Hindustani.

    As far as people in those days after partition referring to people from across the border as hindustani has to do, I guess, with names Pakistan and Hindustan. Since the milat kaa paasbaan had referred to the land on this side of wagah as Pakistan and the otherside as Hindustan, an average person also started using the same definition for people who had come from the other side of the border. Also, average person from anywhere is not quite smart.

    I guess sindh, hind, hindustan, are all terms used by outsiders such as Arabs and greeks. Local words are probably Bhaarat, Avadh/Aayodiyah etc.
    We may need help of some gurus of Sanskirit to find out older names for various regions of the sub-continent.

  156. odin on March 3rd, 2009 @ 5:58 pm


    Have you read G.M.Syed’s "The case of Sindh"? In his book he says that Hind and Sindh have always been two different entities.

    But you are right all these terms namely Hind, Sindh, Hindustan, India have been derived from the Vedic word Sinhdu but they have been used for different people in different times by the invaders.

    Today, the people of the Indus Valley who are the true inheritors of the term India are called Pakistanis. Historically speaking, only the Indus Valley can be called India and its inhabitants Indians. Jinah made a huge mistake by rejecting the name India for his new country.

    The Aryans called the whole region between the Sutlej and kabul rivers Sapta Sindhava (Hapta Hindava in Avestan), which means the land of seven rivers. When the Persians annexed Punjab and made it their satrapy they called it Hind. The Aryans called our Indus Sindhu which was Hindu in Avestan and when Greeks took over this word from the Persians they dropped H and added S in the end thus it became Indus. The Greeks called the Hindukush mountains of Afghanistan and Pakistan the Caucasus Indicus, Hindukush is a corruption of Caucasus Indicus. Darios’ Hind became Punjab during the Mughal rule and the Ganges valley Hindustan. Punajb was a separate entity before it was annexed and included into their India by the British. The Hindu Shahis were called Hindu Shahis not because they were the follower of Hinduism but because they were the inhabitants of Hind, namely Punjab.

    No Punjabi, Pathan, Baloch or even Sindhi ever called himself Hindustani, Indian may be, anyway they were part of British Inida, but never Hindustani. Strictly speaking, only the people of the Ganges valley were called Hindustanis at the time of partition.

  157. odin on March 3rd, 2009 @ 7:01 pm

    Anyway, Lord McCaulay delivered his famous speech about Indian Education in 1935 (thanks wikipedia). In 1935 Punjab was still a separate entity, Balochs were the ruler of Sindh and the bulk of Balochistan, FATA and NWFP was still a part of Afghanistan. Now who Hindustanis Balma shaib?

  158. balma on March 3rd, 2009 @ 9:23 pm

    Mr. Odin,
    My definition of Hindustan is from Khyber to Cox Bazar! :-)
    Kar lo jo karnaa hae!
    This way, Kabirdas does not feel left out as well.

    Also, I think you mean 1835! By then, I am sure there was a British resident in Lahore.

    Otherwise, Awadh (capital Lucknow) was not ruled by the British in 1835. Remember, East India Company had a resident in Lucknow till 1856, and invaded Lucknow in 1856. And, remember, Bahadur Shah Zafar was still the Emperor of India till 1857. And, East India company was running the show in Bengal etc under a license from the Mughal Emperor. So, whose Hindustan was Lord dude referring too, really?

    Plus, I don’t know the actual term, in English, the Lord dude. I was using the term hindustani for convenience. Otherwise I am aware of the confusion it can cause. In fact, even if you ask someone from Hyderabad (Deccan) in Paksitan, at least the older generation, they will say they are not Hindustani, they are Hyderabadi (if from the city) or Deccani (if from the state of Hyderabad). But, today even in today’s India everyone is referred to as hindustani…even if they are Gujrati or Keralite or Bengali.

    But you do seem like a vakeel! Don’t we already have one on KMB?

  159. kabirdas on March 3rd, 2009 @ 9:32 pm

    @ balma and odin

    Rather interesting debate. My knowledge on this subject is rather limited. However, I feel what odin is saying makes lot of sense. And he seems to have done some good research on the subject as well. My saying anything after what he has said will be like sooraj ko charagh dikhana. So I will say no more.
    Barrister Aitazaz wrote a book called ‘ Indus Saga’ few years back. I glanced through this book and remember he did write something on this particular subject. And I think he was of the view that Indus Valley has never been a part of India as such. Anyway I am not too sure of it. I will get hold of this book and see what he had said in it about this subject and if need be I will ask him about it when we meet next.

    We haven’t met for a long time but are likely to meet soon during the course of forthcoming ‘Dhrna’. I imagine ‘Dharna’ may be a good ocassion to discuss such things beside pelting some stones, now and then, for which I have already started practice :-) My aim seems to be quite good but the range of throw is very short. I am just wondering if it will be better for me to join the ‘danda bardar’ mob rather than the ‘stone pelting’ brigade. One thing I am not going to do is to join the ‘civil society’ mob. They will not be able to produce any tangible result. They do not yet realize that:

    LaToon kay bhooT baToon say nahi manay gay.

  160. balma on March 3rd, 2009 @ 9:45 pm

    Please ask Aitezaz Hussain if he will like to call his country, India.
    I have never figured out what is the big deal with not being part of India anyway….regardless of who is right or wrong here on KMB… I rather be associated with India, than with jahil Afghanistan. For example, I hate Pakistan being lumped with Afghanistan by Obama.

  161. kabirdas on March 3rd, 2009 @ 10:35 pm

    @ balma

    1. I know Aitazaz fairly well and am sure he will agree that we were part of India before partition.

    2. Our discussion on KMB has only been of academic interest and nothing more than that and I am sure you will agree with that.

    3. And thank you for accepting me as part of Hindustan. I wouldn’t mind or rather I would love to being part of any region where rule of law prevails.

    4. Balma jee before you could be associated with India, your desire notwithstanding, you will have to show that you are not a Jahil like an Afghan which may not be so easy to prove as the things stand right now in Pakistan.

    5. If I were an Indian I would rather not associate with Pakistan as much as I wouldn’t like to be associated with Afghanistan.

    6. Obama has done the logical thing to lump Pakistan with Afghanistan. The only differenc between the two is that Afghanistan is a declared Taliban state whereas we are still trying to become a full fledged Taliban state.

    7. By the way you may not be aware that one of the reasons we started associating with Afghanistan and Taliban because of the theory of ‘strategic depth’ needed by Pakistan for its survival. This theory was propounded by our ex COAS General Beg and is now vigrously supported by ex ISI Chief General Hameed Gul.

    8. Ab ham kambal say apni jan chuRa rahay haiN magar kambal hamari jan nahiN choRe raha hay. Now the big question is as they say in Punjabi ( recently quoted by Farooq Sattar on TV:

    MaiN manji kithay dawaN? ( where should I spread my bed?)

  162. kabirdas on March 3rd, 2009 @ 10:52 pm

    And balma jee you should be grateful to Obama that he has not lumped us with Somalia. That would have been more appropriate. I think our geography prevented him from doing so :-)

    As Will Durant says: "It is a kindly fate that has not given us the gift of seeing ourselves as other see us."

    And at another place he also says: "After all , espite our skills at self deception, there is nothing that we don’t know so well as our own selves."

  163. odin on March 3rd, 2009 @ 11:08 pm

    balma, My definition of Hindustan is from Khyber to Cox Bazar! :-)
    Kar lo jo karnaa hae!

    LOL, as if I care. You can say whatever you want Balma sahib, you’re a free citizen of a fucked up country.

    But dragging Afghans into this discussion and calling them Jahil was unnecessary, I have met many Afghans and I found them decent and loveable people.

  164. odin on March 3rd, 2009 @ 11:18 pm

    I have read Aitezaz’s "The Indus saga and the making of Pakistan", nothing special in that book. writing books about history is not his forte.

  165. kabirdas on March 3rd, 2009 @ 11:54 pm

    @ odin

    I only hope making history is his forte !!!
    Keep your fingers crossed for the IDEES of March when the saints will go marching in and KD will be one of them !!!

  166. balma on March 4th, 2009 @ 1:18 am

    KabirDas sahib,
    I was being funny – that you should ask Aetizaz (kyaa ajeeb-o-ghareeb naam hae!) that if he ould like his current country to be called India (it being the land if Indus)?

    I don’t mind him actually, even though he has a difficult name:-) Among the politicians of Pakistan, he is comparitively less badmaash – or at least seems less badmaash. dil kaa haal tou bhagvaan jaanay!

    Odin, yeah sure – there might be ikkaa-dukkaa shareef afghan, but most of them are nikammaas and yes, jaahil. Busy in ghundagardi for centuries, and then ooper say aatitude aisay key jaisay poori dunyaa kay maalik. They hate Indians and Pakistanis (or hindustaanis…hahaha), but come to our lands for jobs…. for centuries.

    and, Odin, most of the conversation on this blog is unnecessary….kabhi koee kaam kee baat hotay huay dekhee hai yahaa’n?

  167. balma on March 4th, 2009 @ 1:20 am

    correction… I meant land OF Indus.

    And, KD, please waive at KMB when the camera focuses at you during the dharnaa.

  168. kabirdas on March 4th, 2009 @ 12:00 pm

    @ balma on March 4th

    " Aetizaz (kyaa ajeeb-o-ghareeb naam hae!) "

    At least better than ‘ "Moatasam Billah". In Karachi you can get away with minor infringement of law with a name like Moatasam Billah because Karachi cops (Punjabis of course) find it difficult to write a name like that. I am sure Karachi cops will be able to write Aitazaz with less difficulty:-)

    " dil kaa haal tou bhagvaan jaanay!"

    Yes, I do. He is a nice fellow :-)

    " kabhi koee kaam kee baat hotay huay dekhee hai yahaa’n?"

    Yes, I have; when we talk about Mullah :-)

  169. kabirdas on March 4th, 2009 @ 12:17 pm

    @ balma on March 4th, 2009 @ 1:20 am

    " And, KD, please waive at KMB when the camera focuses at you during the dharnaa"

    Will do. That’s the whole idea.

    Before Zardari became democratically elected President of Islamic Republic of Pakistan he used to live in Zardari house in Islamabd almost next door to my house. In the evening while going for my usual walks I used to take a littel detour to pass by his house to see the ‘jamghatta’ of TV cameras interviewing various leaders coming to and going from Zardari house.
    When I told this to my friends they asked me why was I doing that. I told them to squeeze in behind some person being interviewed and thus come on the TV. As it happened I could never squeeze in behind any such person despite my best efforts ( running from one camera to another)because of other strong aspirants for a similar covetted position and thus my dream of coming on TV remained unfulfilled:-)

    Let us see if I can get this honour of comingon TV during long march or dharna and marna. Wish me luck!!

  170. fasee on March 4th, 2009 @ 1:00 pm

    @ KD.

    sirf with all my inferior IQ and while admiting i spent most of time reading other material than my course books or scholars…how would you jsutify the startegic planning failurs of lawyers….are they a gang of il-litrate goods or crowed with a mob mentality…ya our best brians…on whom….we as a nation…( badkismati nation to be exact)…we are again betting all our eggs on the same nincampoops.

    what a nation of fools we are…why we bet on the worng horse again and again and again.

    we bet on bhutto harami and we lost.
    we bet on zia kana and we lost
    we bet on nawaz lahori badmash and we lost
    we bet on benazir khabasat and we lost.
    we bet on sadam husain in gulf war adn we lost
    we bet on ossama bin ladin in 9/11 and we lost
    we bet on taliban in afghansitan and we lost
    we bet on musharaf and we lost
    now we bet on charsi ifthikahar chaudry and are bound to loose..mark my words.

    koi koom hamaray say ziayda badkismat ya jahil ya duffer ya teeno at the same time hu sakti hai…??

    (WHY WHY WHYYYYYYYYYYY…fasee cryies his heart out while pulliung his hair in a fit of hysteria )

  171. بستنی (wasiq) on March 4th, 2009 @ 2:50 pm

    kafi arsey se perdhna chordh diya tha….soncha tha kay british council(*****) bandh ho gaie aab kon ponchey ga…per aap logon kay comments perdh kay sonchta houn kay faisala sahi tha…

    kuch arsa pehley ki baat hai FM 100 per ajmal shobi sab ka geet ghazal show sunn raha tha kay achanak aik nazam sunni….
    Aur ley ga kya zalim imtahan sheeshay ka..

    pata laga kay Aitezaz chacho ki hai …yaqeen nahein hua keun kay akhsar barristers ko bachpan se, un kay nahein apney ,janta houn….pheir soncha chacho kay munchi chand ki ho gi….two month ki salary nahein dee ho gi toh yeah likh kar dee ho gi…..chacho ney apney naam se chapwa de ho gi….kya app log jo unn kay readers hain confirm kar saktey ho….

    @KD sarkar itni garmi main bhi anday Rs 60-65 kay hain easter bhi 11th april ko hai….chacho ko salam deyna…kahena abhi bhi agar kaan se pakard kay apni seat pey beitha do gay toh banda ouf nahein karney wala….

  172. kabirdas on March 4th, 2009 @ 3:28 pm

    @ fasee
    Sir, WHY because we wanted to have democracy in our country and as George Bernard Shaw said:
    ‘Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.’

    And he also said:

    ‘A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.’

    We have indeed be doing something even if not the right thng. So let us learn from our mistakes. Let us make a fresh start. Let us first start with the establishment of rule of law in our country. Everything else will then follow nicely. It is for this reason that KD has put his bet on lawyers movement this time and is prepared to put his life on the line for this cause. It is immaterial who or what CJ Chaudhri is. He is just a symbol or a flag which we lawyers have found convenient and useful to use for the success of their movement. Try to undersand this please.

  173. fasee on March 4th, 2009 @ 3:57 pm

    @ KD.

    sir, with due appologies, all my life i had catagorized lawyers, along with police, robbers and politicians in the same class.

    no matter how much i hate lawyers, its corrupt, hypocrate ( aitzaz ahsan ) and mentally challenged ( ali kurd ) leadership…..i respect there sacrifice of theere incomes for a cause….they gathered for a cause….and great cause.

    thats what sadend me…that we are bettign on that corrupt ifhthikar chadry again…no offcene..but its a punjabi PML-N and Punjabi judges evil nexus nothing else.

    " not everything good is done with good intentions, not every thing bad happened with bad intentions"

    this is the first case….a corrupt judge is rockected to become a idol of honesty…and his equally corrupt chamcas his gurdian angels…

    ( WHY WHY WHYYYY…fasee has a fit of hysteria again )

    as for the doin somethin instead of nithing…here is my twist of the story.

    if we as a nation is like a moneky with a razor….i would bet 1000 times out of 1000 for that moneky to sit there doing nothing then to just lay a single finger on that shiney razor.

    dont change the thing that is already working….or atleast had been working bette rthan what they make out of it…..

    everythime when we did c achnage it was for the worse…never ever for the better.

    pakistans motorway to hell was paved with good intentions…so told the malang near mazar of justice near islamabad fiefdome….

    and i was refering to gurrela warfare strategy……knowing whern to stop and make a ceasefire is the key……the idiotic leadership of lawaers spoile dthe scarficies of all by not stoping when they had acvhived their initial goals….and destoryed everything…..

    ali kurd being one of the top most culprit…who kept on instiing to keep on even when ifhtikhar was restored….shuldnt he be hanged aswell

    @ wasiq

    sir sheeshay pe yaad aya…suna hai is sya nasha nahee hota…aaj kaal bachiyan kafi shauk say peeti hain…per sala hai bara mehanga…..kahan hum beeri penay wala log..kahaen 300-400 ruypay ka flavaoursed sheesha.

  174. balma on March 4th, 2009 @ 7:49 pm

    KD Sahib,
    Moattasim Be-illah at least does not mean something too bad.
    My all time favorite name is : Kalb-e-Ali :-)
    Yes, it is ‘k’ and not ‘q’. Although, recently I noticed someone writing it with ‘q’ in Urdu… as if people like me are dead and don’t know the real name.

    There was a ruler of Rampur, Navab Kalb-e-Ali Khan. His parent’s weren’t too bright I guess:-)

    Here is how I will translate kalb-e-ali = Ali’s Dog = ali kaa kuttaa:-)
    abay, yeh bhee koee naam hae?

    I can see Abdullah, ghulam Muhammad, ghulam ali, khadim hussain type names….but Ali-ka-kuttaa for a name?

  175. kabirdas on March 4th, 2009 @ 9:04 pm

    @ balma

    I must admit I didn’t know this name was Kalb-e-Ali and not Qalb-e-Ali. I always thought it was Qalb-e-Ali though being a Punjabi I always pronounced it as Kalb-e-Ali. That means I have been writing this name wrongly but pronouncing it correctly :-)
    Thanks for teaching a teacher. I am glad you approve of the name Abdullah. It is the name of Kabir Das if wholly translated into Arabic. And the name of Kabir Das will be Bhagwan Das if wholly translated into Hindi. Am I right or not?
    Anyway I like my name as a mix of Arabic and Hindi showing I am a Muslim belonging to the sub-continent of India and believe in the brotherhood of Hindus and Muslims of the sub-continent.

  176. kabirdas on March 4th, 2009 @ 9:19 pm

    @ fasee

    You seem to be as against the lawyer’s movement as I am for it. Let us calm down a bit before discussing this matter any further. To calm you down here is a small joke for you which I am sure you are going to like a lot:

    A biker walks into a yuppie bar and shouts, "All lawyers are assholes!"
    He looks around, obviously hoping for a challenge. Finally a guy comes up to him, taps him on the shoulder, and says, "Take that back."
    The biker says, "Why? Are you a lawyer?"
    "No, I’m an asshole."

  177. balma on March 4th, 2009 @ 10:01 pm

    It doesn’t take a Panjabi to mispronounce q and k these days. Most people in Karachi now think it is cool to say Koran. Even non-confusing letters like ‘khay’ (or ‘kha’ for jamaatees) are now pronounced as ‘k’+’h’.
    For example, pseudo-cool type Karachiites now pronounce ‘khaas’ (special) as ‘k,haas’ where k,h is pronounced as in khaanaa (food).

    KD sahib, Karachi has burgeriyat at its zenith (urooj) right now. Kabhee Karachi aa kar tou daikhai’n. No wonder no one respects Pakistanis.

    These burgers by intentionally mispronouncing Urdu words try to act like Oxford graduates when we all know that burgers can hardly speak one sentence of English correct….that is why they are called burgers!

  178. kabirdas on March 5th, 2009 @ 12:09 am

    @ balma

    I may be wrong but I think you are confusing burgers with ex Bombay or Gujrat walas in the matter of pronoucing kh as kah.
    I don’t mean to say that burgers don’t speak Urdu like a Gora would have done. They do and take pride in doing so. They don’t mind if you point out their mistakes while speaking Urdu but they will flare up if you pointed out any of their mistake while speaking English.
    Perhaps they want to show that they are the product of a English medium school, and thus a different breed of people than the natives who go to Urdu medium schools.
    Pity the nation that feels shame in speaking its own national language. Thats what Khalil Gibran would have said had he known this.

  179. balma on March 5th, 2009 @ 3:15 am

    KD Sahib,
    You got to be kidding!
    Of course, I am not including Gujrati or Bengali or even Panjabi. I am talking of people who claim to be Urdu speaking:-)
    Why don’t you try this: Any time you find someone under 30, ask him/her to count till hundred in Urdu. If you find one person who can do this, Sirkar, aap meraa naam badal deejyae gaa! You can beign with your friend with difficult name, aitezaaz what ever….Do you think he can count in Urdu (or Panjabi) till hundred?

    Since we can’t speak our language(s), we study – for example- science and engineering in other’s language, we lack creativity. Per Lord McCauley’s suggestion, we were trained to "follow instructions". For example, take maths….a desi mind is quite good at solving a complex integral or a differential equation. But, ask him to model a real life problem in mathematical terms….not much there! So, whole engineering schools were set up and are being set up in India and PK that create engineers who can act like number crunchers….not thinkers. In old India (Pakistan and Hindustan:-) ), desi engineers were used for what computers are used now….

    Of course, we produced people like Raman or Abdus Salam, but those are exceptions.

    OK, forget about maths and engineering. Look at the level of reporting and analysis in Dawn or The News. You can’t tell head from tail, or the arguement they are trying to make. Why? We don’t instill logical analysis among our students and it is hard to do so when you are teaching people in a foreign language.

    Oh, btw, regardless of my hatred for mullah gardi, I have to give Mullahs credit for keeping Urdu alive in Pakistan and India, from Cox Bazar to Khyber. But, since it is a matter of religion, they are not very creative either.

  180. بستنی (wasiq) on March 5th, 2009 @ 7:14 am

    @fasee sab….bachiyan kon sa roj roj sheesha peeti hai…aap ney sal main aik aad dafa hee toh pila na hai…!

    nasha sharab main hota toh jhoomti bootal
    Iss main toh sala pani mila hua hai yaar…

  181. fasee on March 5th, 2009 @ 10:10 am

    sir ji…mufat ki hu tu mullah bhi peetay hain.

    yeh tu bachiyaan hain…jo agar larka tayaar hu tu us ka lahoo pi jain.

    sheesha kiya cheez hai…..

    TIP: udhaar ki piya karain sir, apmnay paisay ki sharab main woh nasha kahan jo udhar ki main hai…Sir KD any comments

  182. fasee on March 5th, 2009 @ 10:26 am

    @ balma ji…

    aap ki age kiy ahai waisy…bcoz agar aap meri hi age group ke hain tu phri tu theek hai….aap ka kasoor nahee…bcoz hum ko bhi madam mar amr ker names ki spelling yaad kerwati thin.

    aaj kaal tu "madar pidar azadi hai" aap malik likho malic likho ya Malick

    is bazar main sab chalta hain.

    haan hamari tarahan buzrgon ko bari takellf hoti salay hum na torture ker ker ke yaad nai nasal itni asani say kaisay choo tgai

  183. بستنی (wasiq) on March 5th, 2009 @ 8:09 pm

    Chacho ko koi nahein bataay gaa….!

    @ fasee sab…..sir aap KD sarkar se kay chahatey ho…he has confessed to that he is only familiar with beer…doctor ki jor jabar dasti pey i have tried…the local non alcoholic three times….either it was stale or corked. or i am not ready for it…tasted like molasses aik dam printing main istimal honey wala pigment kya kehtey hai ussey han sareesh pi lia ho jaisey…toba toba

  184. kabirdas on March 5th, 2009 @ 11:23 pm

    @ balma on March 5th

    No, I aint no kiddin’:-)
    I find it hard rather damn hard to believe that any Urdu speaking worth his salt will prononuce ‘kh’ as ‘kah’ or ‘zay’ as ‘jeem’ and thus pronounce roze (day) as roje which some group of people do. I will further check it and get back to you if it is indeed the case these days. In the mean time I will also request you to reconfirm it.

    I have indeed come across many who can’t and wouldn’t like to count in Urdu. Only recently when one of my niece asked me what was Unasi I asked her why doesn’t she learn Urdu counting. She gave me a reson which has some justification for people counting in English. She told me in English you have to learn numbers only from one to ten or say to thirteen and thereafter numbers like 20,30,40 etc. The rest of the numbers are just a repetition of these numnbers whereas in Urdu each number is different from the other up to 100. I think she did have a point there.

    Seems you don’t know much about Aitazaz . I promise you he can not only count in Urdu but also in Punjabi. He is extremly fluent in all three languages English, Urdu and Punjabi. He writes very good poetry in Urdu. He quotes Punjabi poets like Bullhay Shah, Waris Shah and Sultan Bahu etc in his conversation without any difficulty. Some time back I had sought the help of some literary people including one retired professor of English litrature to understand the famous poem of TS Elliot titled ‘The Waste Land’. None of them could help me. The retired English litrature professor told me he would have to find his old notes before he could do that. You will be surprised to know that Aitzaz was the only person who could explain ‘The Waste Land’ to me satisfactorily.

    His office is naturally full of law books but in the same office he has a good collection of Urdu poetry books stacked in 3 cupboards.

    Aitzaz is a brilliant guy his difficult name notwithstanding. His father wanted him to become a civil servant whereas he was keen to become a lawyer and wanted to go to Cambridge to study law. His father felt Aitazaz was perhaps afraid to take the CS exam. Aitazaz took the CS exam an topped in it. He was then sent to Cambridge to study law as her his deal with his father. His son won a full scholorship to study law at Haarvard and full scholorship to do his master in law at Yale. What do you say to that.

    I agree with you that generally one will be less creative if one is using a language other than one’s mother tongue or let us say if one is thinking in one language and working in another. However, I feel it will be more so in literary field than in science and technical field.

    Dr Salam was no doubt a great scientist but then unfortunately we discovered he was not a Muslim so we instead of feeling proud of him trahed him to one side. India has no doubt produced many great scientists, writers and mathematicians (most of them coming from South India). Subrahmanyan Chandrasekher and Ramanujan are only two of them. If ever you have the time please do read the biography of Ramanunjan and how and what he did in mathematics. He was a real genius like of which you will not find anywhere — not even in the West.

    How do you expect Mullah to be creative. A person with dogmatic beliefs can never ever be creative. You can only be one of the two; either dogmatic or creative.

    Must find time to read about Ramanujan.

  185. kabirdas on March 5th, 2009 @ 11:34 pm

    @ fasee on March 5th

    KD says: MiaN, cash milay ya udhar milay/ Jasay milay per zaroor milay

  186. kabirdas on March 5th, 2009 @ 11:46 pm

    @ wasiq on March 5th

    Please don’t make me laugh so much !! In view of the forhcoming dharna I am in a serious mood these days.
    Zabardasti pee tau wo bhee non-alcoholic pee :-)
    What else do you expect from a non-alcoholic pee ??

  187. balma on March 6th, 2009 @ 1:01 am

    I will be glad to confirm that Urdu speaking kids are saying k.h for khay. No, it is not so bad that they will say j for z, but that day is not too far.

    Something interesting, I have heard that in India movie people are required to get Urdu training, so they don’t mispronounce the words.
    Thanks to mullahs, and the Panjabi mafia of Indian movie industry that Urdu is still alive in some shape or form.

    I know very little about Aitezaz (oos say kehai’n fauran apnaa naam badlay), but I know that he comes from an educated family. I also remember him quoting a Hasrat Mohani’s verse in an interview with the transvestite who dresses like a woman. The verse was:

    Hae mashq-e-sukhan jaaree, chakkee kee mushaqqat bhee
    aik terfah tamaashaa hae, Hasrat kee tabeeyat bhee

    I am not sure about the second misraa though.
    So, I knew that he is well read.

    I guess your niece’s comment on counting in Urdu is valid, but only partially.
    Let’s see.
    ik-ees, ba-ees, tae-ees, chaubees, pachees, chha-b-ees….
    and now,
    ik-(a)tees, ba-tees, tai(n)-tees, chau(n)-tees, pai(n)-tees, chha-tees….

    But, it does get confusing in chaalees series, and pachaas series.
    like pae-ta-lees and pach-pan….

    Some are just pronunciation issues, some I guess we don’t know because these words have changed over centuries.

    Also, I can never figure out the relation between dou (two) and baa, e.g., why do we say baa-rah, baa-ees, bat-tees?

    If I remember correctly, from hanging around with memon/khoja/gujrati types as a kid, isn’t ‘two’ called ‘baa’ in their languages? can someone confirm?

  188. odin on March 6th, 2009 @ 3:31 am

    kabirdas said, "Pity the nation that feels shame in speaking its own national language

    What about those who feel shamed of speaking their own mother tongue? Children of the Middle class Punjabi families speak Urdu at home and English at their schools.

    A young Punjabi, in a Pakistani website, criticized the MQM people for calling themselves Urdu-speaking. He wrote that who died and gave rights of Urdu exclusively to Mohajirs. He said that he was a "so-called Punjabi" but he could talk in Urdu only, like most of the middle class Punjabis, that’s why he also was an Urdu-speaking – and he further wrote that Punjabi would soon die out anyway.

    Look, what you people have done to your young generation.

    Look, what have you people done to your young generation.

  189. بستنی (wasiq) on March 6th, 2009 @ 6:48 am

    @KD sarkar….sorry sir..!

    Manzil na dey Chiragh na dey Hosla toh dey…!

  190. balma on March 6th, 2009 @ 9:47 am

    Take it easy. Urdu and Panjabi will both be dead if you leave it to burgers.

    Also, the term Urdu speaking is I guess a by-product of Pakistan. I have never heard this term in India.
    Also, MQM’s main leader in Pakistan (i.e. not in England) is not Urdu speaking, but a Gujrati(Farooq Sattar).

    And, urdu and Panjabi are not that far apart…this is a fatwa from Hazrat Allama Balma.
    Akhtar Shairani, a poet, thought of Panjabi as an older version of Urdu. I think of it as ‘a’ version of Urdu like Bihari and Deccani Urdu. One thing common between panjabi and Decanni Urdu is the way they make plurals. anyway….

  191. fasee on March 6th, 2009 @ 11:08 am

    @ Wasiq

    sir…non alcoholic pee bhi tu mureey brewry ki 12 rupay wlai malt…ker di na memno wlai herkat….aray yaar kuch tu paisa dheela karoo…..u shud try non alocholice red wine….300 to 400 ki hoti hai depend on where u buy….availavble at all stores….a bit tart but very fizzy.

    verna Ku’ppi zindabaad.

    @ KD & Balma.
    i fail to see what the probelm with learning in english is….i am not a burger, had my udru medioum till 5th grade…then full english medium.

    i fail to understand why there wud be any limitation in thiniking or imaginaion.

    sir if i want to imagine and plan it is done in mind, does not depnd if it is in english or urdu or pahsto.

    besides….havign so many languages just clutter the world…i mean….the world b much better place if we can do with 4-5 at max for whole world.

    it seems sostupid to have 5000 langauges to say same thing…..such duplication…poehlay likho phir translate karo…..such waste of time and energies.

  192. fasee on March 6th, 2009 @ 11:09 am

    @ KD…

    and oh sir…wish you guys good luck….( although from depth o my heart, i know this movement is bound to fail due to many structrual defects built into it.)

    bt i still say ..good luck sir…you guys are dying for a good cause.

  193. kabirdas on March 6th, 2009 @ 11:26 am

    @ balma on March 6th

    Yes, Aitazaz is a well read person but not as well read as KD. KD has read and understood ‘The Theory of Relativity’ and ‘The Theory of Evolution’ which he hasn’t :-) However, beside being well read he is very smart also which KD is not at all.

  194. kabirdas on March 6th, 2009 @ 11:34 am

    @ wasiq on March 6th

    Your apology is accepted. In future please don’t try to make me laugh like that otherwise you don’t know I may start crying.

    Manzil you know.
    Cheragh you don’t need.
    For Hosla use ‘Dutch courage’.

    Come on try once more.

  195. kabirdas on March 6th, 2009 @ 11:44 am

    @ balma on March 6th

    Rest assured Punjabi is quite safe from Bergers. They wouldn’t touch it even with a 20 ft pole :-)

  196. kabirdas on March 6th, 2009 @ 11:57 am

    @ fasee on March 6th

    I must admit your prediction about the success of this movementis not unrealistic. Thanks for your well wishes anyway.

    If you don’t hear from KD after 16 March you can safely assume he in this struggle for Pakistan hoorooN ko piara ho gaya hay. You don’t need to say dua-e-maghfarrat for him. If possible do say a dua-e-maghfarrat for the 72 houris who are assigned to him at his shahdat. These 72 houris are certainly going to find extremely difficult to please and satisfy KD:-)

  197. kabirdas on March 6th, 2009 @ 12:15 pm

    @ odin on March 6th.

    I am a Punjabi. I am not ashamed to speak Punjabi. It just so happens that I can’t speak Punjabi fluently for reasons beyond my control.
    In any case I don’t consider Punjabi a language or Punjabi a nation. I look at Punjabi as a dialect of Urdu and Punjabi as a nationality. My nationality is Pakistani and Urdu is my national language the rest is all hocus pocus.

  198. fasee on March 6th, 2009 @ 2:17 pm

    @ KD.

    wow…if you liv you guys wud be legend…..if we dont hear from ya…you wud be bz giving tough time to the 72 buxom beauties….guess its a win win situation yo got there bro.

    as for me…guess alot of this kup’pi has effected my libido or somthin as i dont find any urge to have quality time with 72 nymphs promised for me…..

    a nypmh in hand is better than 144 in lala land….

    besides there is no gurantee i land there… of probality says i wud have a corner plot in hell…..but mitigting factor wud be that i wud be in good company…;)

  199. odin on March 6th, 2009 @ 3:25 pm


    Indian immigrants from UP and other north Indian state were called Hindustanis when they migrated and settled down in the lower Sindh after the partition of the British India. After Indo-Pak wars calling oneself HIndustani was obviously stupid so they started calling themselves Mohajirs, and now Urdu-speaking.

    You will of course never hear this term in India because they don’t need a distinct identity unlike Sindh’s Urdu-speaking for obvious reasons.

    You’re right Farooq Sattar is a Gujarati but what does it prove? Hitler was also an Austrian.

    Urdu and Punjabi and many other north Indian languages and also Sindhi have same roots which is why they have many similarities, Just like German and Dutch or Spanish and Italian.

    Akhtar Shirani is an idiot. Punjabi is spoken in the greater Punjab region whereas Urdu evolved from Khariboli which was spoken in the western UP and in and around Delhi. Punjabi emerged as a distinct language in the 11th century whereas Urdu is a much younger language.

  200. odin on March 6th, 2009 @ 3:27 pm

    In any case I don’t consider Punjabi a language or Punjabi a nation. I look at Punjabi as a dialect of Urdu and Punjabi as a nationality. My nationality is Pakistani and Urdu is my national language the rest is all hocus pocus.

    Why I am not surprised?

  201. khaled90 on March 6th, 2009 @ 4:08 pm
  202. khaled90 on March 6th, 2009 @ 4:09 pm

    Mullah, jehadis, talibans (Different names of one common enemy) are behind Lahore Attack on Srilankan Team.–sal-up

  203. khaled90 on March 6th, 2009 @ 4:10 pm

    Karachities prepare yourselves for worst.

  204. بستنی (wasiq) on March 6th, 2009 @ 7:34 pm

    @KD sarkar….thankyou very much sir….I’ll be extra cautious from now on…..i’ll more fire walls and filters…thanks also for the dutch….

    hitler austrian tha….jabhe toh…!

    @fasee sab ….ay te confirm burgeran wali gal keti hai tusi….mein ay kab daseya kay…main local peeeti ay…hor sunnu 12 dey tay aaj kal pakola nahein andee ay…char panj sua taka dein saan jannatey juli nahein ban sakdee ay…aay te taino beyter pata hoie gaa…

    ps: please pardon my french…i have promised KD sarkar not to make him laugh….this way he will never know what iam speaking about…aaho!

  205. kabirdas on March 6th, 2009 @ 8:01 pm

    @ fasee

    Shakespeare also had something to say about alcohol and sex, in Macbeth:

    Drink, sir, is the great provoker of three things: nose-painting, sleep, and urine. Lechery, sir, it provokes and unprovokes, it provokes the desire, but it takes away performance…it makes him and it mars him; it sets him on and it takes him off; it persuades him and disheartens him; makes him stand to and not stand to; in conclusion, equivocates him in a sleep, and giving him the lie, leaves him.

    Got it ???

  206. balma on March 6th, 2009 @ 8:02 pm

    I am not sure about the sequence Hindustani=>Muhajir=>UrduSpeaking.
    Also, the term muhajir as used in Karachi these days also includes gujratis, biharis, Tamils, Keralites, not all of whom are originally Urdu speaking. Therefore, it gets confusing.

    I made that comment about Farooq Sattar because you were quoting something which implied MQM = Urdu Speaking, which I guess is not true, at least theoretically. Also, I am not knowledgable in German/Austrian languages, but I guess Urdu and Gujrati are farther apart than German and Austrian.

    By the way, I am in favor of all languages to thrive in Pakistan and India. I think basic education for all kids should be in their mother languages. But, leave it to Karachi and Bombay burgers, no one will be writing anything in India and Paksitan except bad English… can see the English standard in Dawn, News, and Hindustan Times and Times of India.

    For example, read today’s article in The News, Karachi section, the article on Preedy Street Corridor III, (Friday March 6) and tell me if you can figure out (and you too FASIQ) what the writer is trying to say about the number of lanes in signal free corridor III. This article is a perfect example of badly written English in Pakistan’s English newspapers. Meanwhile, Urdu newspapers have become bulletins for chehlum, soyam, and qurankhwani announcements. See Karachi section in today’s Jang.

    And, I don’t know much about Akhtar Shairani except he like his drink. I wasn’t around when he was writing:-)

    And, Odin, FYI …. Kabirdas is an honorary hindustani jaasoos that we have planted in Islamabad. He also covers Murree region for us. His main job is to keep an eye on our president!

  207. kabirdas on March 6th, 2009 @ 8:13 pm

    @ odin on March 6th
    "Punjabi emerged as a distinct language in the 11th century whereas Urdu is a much younger language."

    I admit I didn’t know that. I will find out more about it and think about it after I am done with the long march and Dharna.

  208. kabirdas on March 6th, 2009 @ 8:19 pm

    @ odin on March 6th
    "Why I am not surprised?"

    Perhaps because you have not given up yet and expected there to be still some patriotic Pakistanis left in Pakistan.

    I appreciate your well written comments.

  209. kabirdas on March 6th, 2009 @ 9:01 pm

    @ balma on March 6th

    I agree a large number of our journalist write substandard English. But then an English daily can’t afford to have only such journalists who can write good English. To be able to write good English, a foreign language, cost lot of money. And a journalist who can write good English is thus a precious commodity.

    " His [KD] main job is to keep an eye on our president [AZ]!"
    His job specs also include: And make sure he is not harmed irrespective of what harm he does to the country.

  210. balma on March 6th, 2009 @ 11:22 pm

    Well, then why do we need so many English newspapers in Pakistan? Well, of course one reason is that there is market. People are buying them. Publishers are making money…..but beyond such free economy reasoning, is there really a use for all this many badly written English newspapers.

    And this is the worst paart: since our journalists can’t write or analyze things in proper English on their own, they cut and paste from foreign websites….and this is one reason why I think they are too much anti-Paksitani some times…..Therefore, sometimes The News seems like a propaganda tool for the US, other times it looks like it is working for the Indian govt…..and i think now I realize the reason is that these journalists are cutting and pasting from either US or Indian websites.
    Let me know if anyone else has noticed this.

    KD sahib, dharnay may vaqt hee vaqt hae! Aitezaz sahib say Pakistan may berhtae huay burgerpun aur kharaab angraizee per oon kee raa-ae leejyaa gaa.

  211. kabirdas on March 7th, 2009 @ 12:14 am

    @ balma
    " KD sahib, dharnay may vaqt hee vaqt hae! Aitezaz sahib say Pakistan may berhtae huay burgerpun aur kharaab angraizee per oon kee raa-ae leejyaa gaa."

    I will do that some other time,if there is some other time, after the dharna. In dharna I wont be among the lawyers, I wont be among the ex-servicemen, I wont be among the members of civil society, I wont be among the politicians and I wont be among the bearded devils. In Dharna I will not be among the children of lesser God or NO God cursing him for his apathy and his injustice and pelting stones at whosoever tried to stop me from doing what I ought to be doing as a frustrated citizen of Pakistan.

  212. kabirdas on March 7th, 2009 @ 12:16 am

    please delete ‘not’ in the last sentence of previous comments.

  213. fasee on March 7th, 2009 @ 12:19 am

    sir balma ji…aap aisay akhbar parhty hi kiyon hu agar buray lagtay hain.

    aap tu un maulvion ki tarhan hu gai jo raat ko movies is liye dkehtay hian ke yeh dkeh sakain ke mashar kitna bigar chuka hai.

    reh giya main..tu 5th say english medium ke bawajod..2 rupay ka rangen akhbar parha..bcoz bus main wohi miltay thay.

  214. kabirdas on March 7th, 2009 @ 12:35 am

    @ balma
    Dawn is a better English daily. However I read The News because of its city section which covers local news and events of Islamabad. The News perhaps is more radical paper than Dawn.

    I don’t agree with you about Pakistani journalists cutting and pasting foreign journalist’s repots and analysis.

    It seems you may not be in touch with what is happening in Pakistan because of your other preoccupations. If you were you wouldn’t have accused The News of projecting American or Indian view point. I sometime do admire the courage of The News the way they take to task the government and its functionaries to task.

  215. kabirdas on March 7th, 2009 @ 12:47 am

    @ fasee on March 6th
    " a nypmh in hand is better than 144 in lala land…."

    Agree. But what do you do when you don’t have one in hand. I suppose in that case the 144 in lala land are better.

  216. odin on March 7th, 2009 @ 1:00 am

    I don’t know, it seems that a lot has changed in Karachi since we left it many years ago. Back then only those Indian immigrants whose monther tongue was Urdu were called Mohajirs, others like Gujratis, Memons or Agha Khanis were not counted as Mohajirs.

    I also want them to speak their own mother tongue. At least elementary level education should be provided in the mother tongue. Anyway, other Pakistani languages like Balochi, Pashto, Punjabi, Sindhi or Seraiki are quite developed and rich in literature, they area quite old an important part of our shared history (famour Punjabi poet Baba Farid was born in 1173, almost 500 years before Mir Taqi Mir). Recently the fanatic Talibans have tried to blow up famous Pashto poet Rehman Baba’s mausoleum, look how low our society has sunk.

    I am not in any position to criticize the English language newspapers for their bad English language skill. Forget English, most of us Pakistanis cannot even speak our own mother tongues properly, thanks to our poor education standard.

  217. odin on March 7th, 2009 @ 1:32 am

    kabirdas:Perhaps because you have not given up yet and expected there to be still some patriotic Pakistanis left in Pakistan.

    Kabirdas sahib Punjabi, Pashto, Sindhi, Balochi, Seraiki, Hindko, Chitrali, Dari and all other Pakistani languages are my languages and I love all of them equally and I hate it when I get the feeling that people are deliberately degrading them or trying to make them worthless. When a language dies a whole culture, history and literature die along with it. Urdu is my mother tongue but I am not ready to boost the use of Urdu language in Pakistan at the expense of other languages.

  218. fasee on March 7th, 2009 @ 10:14 am

    @ KD.

    sir…aap na darya ko kozay main bund ker diya…….you have explained the spirit behind the suicide bombings.

    hte furstrations when i dont have anythign to loose…then i am the most dangerous thign on earth.

    enter a maulvi…and introduced 144 virgin nymphs waiting to fulfill all his perverted desires without a raised eyebrow.

    man if god forbid..i wud have been in that place..i wud have been wearing a 15 1/2 collar suicide jacket and wud have been on prowl to send a few dozen muslims to hell so i can go to la la land.

  219. kabirdas on March 7th, 2009 @ 10:03 pm

    @ Balma
    It just occurred to me that for some odd reason all Urdu speaking Punjabis either count in English or in Punjabi. Wonder why??

    Today I carried out a test and asked 4 fairly educated Punjabis to let me know what is 89 in Urdu. All of them said ‘unasi’ which is Punjabi. Isn’t 89 in Urdu ‘nawasi’.

    Your comments please ?

  220. kabirdas on March 7th, 2009 @ 10:17 pm

    @ Odin
    "Urdu is my mother tongue but I am not ready to boost the use of Urdu language in Pakistan at the expense of other languages."

    Sir, Urdu is not my mother tongue. It is my national language. It is the only language which is understood to varying degree by all of us in Pakistan. It is a unifying force between us. I would therefore not like to promote regional languages/dialect at the expense of Urdu. Promoting Urdu should be our primary concern and promoting regional languages our secondry concern. Remembar Pakistan first. Then Punjab and what have you.

  221. kabirdas on March 7th, 2009 @ 11:41 pm

    @ odin on March 7th

    " I don’t know, it seems that a lot has changed in Karachi since we left it many years ago. Back then only those Indian immigrants whose monther tongue was Urdu were called Mohajirs, others like Gujratis, Memons or Agha Khanis were not counted as Mohajirs."

    Sir, I also left Karachi many years ago but my heart is still there. However, I know things in respect of what you say have not changed and are as they were before.
    A large number of Memons, Gujratis, Boris, Parsis and East Punjabis are all technically Mohajirs like the Urdu speaking folks who came over from central India. Since all others except those whose mother tongue was Urdu had a fairly large members of their community (speaking the same language as they) already living in this region the term Mohajir didn’t come to be applied to them. It came to be applied to only to those whose mother tongue was Urdu since there was no one with Urdu as a mother tongue living in this region.
    If you come to think about it I think the most appropriate term for the Mohajir/Urdu Speakers/ New Sindhi would be Alh-e-Zuban. It will dispel any confusion that exists on this count.
    Anyway the term Mohajir for people who migrted from central India and whose mother tongue is Urdu is not a bad term.
    Some people object to the term Mohajir being used by the Urdu speakers of Karachi on the ground that they are third genration Pakistanis and thus can’t call themselves Mohajirs. I don’t subscribe to this argument.
    We are all many generation Pakistanis and still we use the term Punjabi, Sindhi, Baloch and Pathan ( or now Pakhtoonkhwa) for ourselves. There is no reason for the Urdu speakers of central India who played a very important role in the creation of Pakistan and sacriced their homes and hearths for it to adopt some such term by which they can be idientified as a seprate nationality like every body else. The term Mohajir as applied to them can be roughly redefined as those whose mother tongue is Urdu and who or whose ancestors migrated from central India at the time of Partition of India.

    At this moment all this is necessary as a temporary stop gap arrangement. Once we had rule of law in Pakistan there will be no need to idientify ourselves as Sindhi or Mohajir or Punjabi etc atc. since we will all be equal befor the law. It is for this kind of thing that today even a person like Kabir Das who all his life claimed to be a pacifist has risen to get on the street to fight for rule of law in this wretched country.

    Do you guys hear me? Please try to understand there is more to the lawyers movement than you see or tend to think. Restoration of CJ Chaudhri is a good excuse for this movement to succeed and lay the foundation stone for the establishment of rule of law in Pakistan for all time to come.

    Wish me luck if you can’t do anything else.

  222. kabirdas on March 7th, 2009 @ 11:53 pm

    @ fasee on March 7th

    Darya ko koozay maiN banD karna is no big deal for KD. He has been doing this most of his life. His achievement will be on 16 March if he could banD karo the Jin who came out of the kooza on 18 Feb as a result of a tragic accident on 27 Dec.

  223. بستنی (wasiq) on March 8th, 2009 @ 7:15 am

    Do you guys hear me? Please try to understand there is more to the lawyers movement than you see or tend to think.

    @KD sarkar…..this is the only reason why your movement has failed….you guys and the leadership is so unsure what do you want…..
    the protesting lawyers and ex judges in pakistan are isolated from the rest of the world and britain.their actions are not supported by any world renouned lawyer’s organisation…If I was wrong than this long march after the 28 days of feb should have been presided by the present chief justices of India,Bangladesh or lord chief justice of the Royal courts of britain….I don’t think that they would even be represented by an office secretary….
    one more think I wanted to ask is that why a long march for only one day….why not for a whole week or a month….i bet your sponsors cannot feed the marching band for more than a day…and yet you want the chooza…sorry I mean the kooza….

    Hum ko maloom hai jannat ki ha(k)qiqat laiken…
    aap ki outing ho gi kay pata dating bhi ho jai…sanno ki!

  224. fasee on March 8th, 2009 @ 7:38 am

    outing ya dating tak theek hai….bus dua karoo "phainti " na lagay

    as as per KDs terms

    when i can not say anythign better….i wud restrict my self to good wishs for KD.

    good luck sir..on your endevours…and as spartans say

    "may you come back "with the shield or on the shield"

  225. بستنی (wasiq) on March 8th, 2009 @ 7:54 am

    @fasee sab..woh tooth brush wali…>

  226. kabirdas on March 8th, 2009 @ 2:47 pm

    @ wasiq on March 8th

    1. To sart off with how do you say that the movement has failed. It has already achieved the removal of a dictator. The movement is going on and has not died down. If long march will not work dharna will be resorted to. If dharna will not work Gherao and Jalaao will be resorted to.

    2. We want survival of Pakistan. For that we want rule of law in Pakistan. And for that we want restoration of CJ Chaudhri as a first step. What can be surer and clearer than that. Our message is loud and clear. Those who don’t get this message either can’t hear or see or understand.

    3. Funny you say that the movement has not be supported by world lawyers organizatins. Agree American, British or Indian governments do not support rule of law in Pakistan. They would rather support NRO which is their creation and is in their best interest.
    However, it is incorrect on your part to assume that no one else in the world has supported the lawyers movement. CJ Chaudhri has been awarded the highest award by Harvard Law School for his struggle for rule of law like Mendala and the other American lawyer who fought for the civil rights of the blacks of America. He has been given the life membership of many Bar Association of America including the biggest bar association of the world , the NY Bar Association. Sir, by all means argue your case but do not deny the facts.

    4. " If I was wrong than this long march after the 28 days of feb should have been presided by the present chief justices of India,Bangladesh or lord chief justice of the Royal courts of britain…."
    Not understood. Please elucidate and elaborate.

    5. Who says long march if for one day. The long march is from 12 to 15 March and from there on it will be dahrna for an indefinite period. Dharna ho ga dharna ho ga
    Chief ki behali tak
    We do have a date with destiny. ( and I personally perhaps with 72 houris in Jannat :-)

  227. kabirdas on March 8th, 2009 @ 2:53 pm

    @ fasee on March 8th

    Thanks for your well wishes. Returning with the shield or over the shield are both acceptable to me as long our endeavour leads to the rule of law in Pakistan.

  228. fasee on March 8th, 2009 @ 6:59 pm


    sir aap ke dil rakhnay ke liye keh diya ahi..verna bhi jo long march jitni labi mail aap na wasiq ko likhi us per reply denay ka dil ker raha tha……but i guess i will postpon what i have to say.

    coz your time shud be better utilised by gather stones, petrol bombs and tlathis adn badage and detol….

    so miltay hian break ke baad.

    jeet ke ayee tu aik ku’pi aap logon ka naam ki pee lain gay…ifhtikhar ke naam ki nahee… me kisi jude ko sahreef nahe manta….kup’pi pe ke bhi nahee…..why..bcoz peeta zaroor hoon…behakta nahee hoon..;)

    wish you best of luck man

  229. odin on March 8th, 2009 @ 7:53 pm

    kabirdas on March 7th, 2009 @ 10:17 pm
    Sir, Urdu is not my mother tongue. It is my national language. It is the only language which is understood to varying degree by all of us in Pakistan. It is a unifying force between us. I would therefore not like to promote regional languages/dialect at the expense of Urdu. Promoting Urdu should be our primary concern and promoting regional languages our secondry concern. Remembar Pakistan first. Then Punjab and what have you.

    Urdu is not an unifying force between us, history has proved it otherwise but those who don’t want to learn anything from history are doomed to repeat it. I know Punjabis have some special place for Urdu in their hearts, thanks for the policies of the British masters and almost a hostile behaviour of its own poets, writers and intelligentsia towards their own mother tongue. "Punjab gets cold whenever UP sneezes" is still valid.

  230. بستنی (wasiq) on March 9th, 2009 @ 8:14 am

    to all senior QC’s junior QC’s Barristers members of the bars members of the associations and my pardosans….

    Sir’s and madames….with all due respect this is between me and my friend KD…so please

    @KD sarkar…..i am going to abide by my promise and not try to make you laugh at the last moments of you sense and senibility…..
    first of all i must say that iam quite disappointed by your knowledge about the education ,lawyers and the rule of law in pakistan….
    second you have an ulterior motive of joinning all 72 at once….so who is a real mulla here…?
    apni toh hit parade 22,23 aur 28 pey aaise jam hoie hai kay unn kay sponsors na hiba kartey hain na ziba…khair abb aap ko mentor nahein kahoun ga…sorry!

    As far as the hon ex chief jugde is concerned he has been restored twice i believe….and there is a chance he might be again so its not a big deal….the big deal as i see it is that…you sir want to preserve the corrupt justice system….and prevent the rule of law….

    you know that only fresh egg whites make a nice sponge cake….you can’t make it from an spicy omelet…can you sir…because that’s what this lawyer’s movement of yours is all about…

    you have agreed that americans ,british and indians do not support the rule of law in pakistan and yet…they educate and waste millions of dollars on the educations of young pakistani lawyers every year…no pakistani law student graduated from local universities can practice there without proper education and after passing the extra exams and bar proceedures….even a senior lawyer here cannot start his or her practice with proper education there…while a junior barrister is allowed to appear in the high courts of pakistan…similar is the case with the judges of pakistan….so technically your legal and judicial system is not at par…and you wants to stop any reform or change by bring back the old school..don’t you…..hip hip hurray.

    aaisa hee uss kay ghar ko bhi aabaad dekhna
    Jis khanuma kharaab ka yeah dill mushir ho

    the world recognition you have mentioned seems to be NOT significant…iam not familiar with the newyork bar…all i know is that there are Ghettos in new york whick are worse than the slums of mumbai or karachi…

    May the lord almighty and wise protect your 72 from you…

  231. fasee on March 9th, 2009 @ 12:25 pm

    @ wasiq.

    if the 72 of those lachar innocent ones are saved form ravages of KD…which i presume being women’s day will get extra pardon and be saved….so can we share them fifty fifty…..okay okay i will be contect with 12…done….???

    ps: liked yr example of eggs…will quote it for a few days ( without aknowledging your copyrights )….hehe i love piracy in pakistan

  232. kabirdas on March 9th, 2009 @ 4:15 pm

    @ wasiq on March 9th

    Sir, humour seems to be your forte. By mentioning my lack of knowledge about rule of law you have made me laugh again. Any way I will hold back my laughter for a few more days no matter how much you try to make me laugh. I will now laugh after the comletion of dharna keeping in mind one who laugh last laughs the most.
    Achieving the company of 72 houris is not the Mulla’s exclusive right. Anybody can try for them the way one deems fit. My aspiration for them does not make me a Mulla. Our aim may be the same but our paths are different. That makes an hell of a lot of difference between the two of us.
    Mull ki azan aur hay
    Mari azan hay aur

    " you sir want to preserve the corrupt justice system….and prevent the rule of law…."

    There you make me laugh again. Sir, do you really bent on making me laugh when I am not in a mood to laugh or you seriously believe that Dogar Court sponsered by Zardari to preserve NRO truly repesents rule of law in Pakistan. If latter is the case then this kind of Pakistan aap ko mubarak ho. KD will either change it to make it a place worth living or failing which will move on to the place to live with his hard earned entilement of 72 houris.

    " you have agreed that americans ,british and indians do not support the rule of law in pakistan —————————————————— change by bring back the old school..don’t you…..hip hip hurray."

    Sir, your argument is so devoid of reason that it doen’t merit a rebuttal.
    However, I will still say just this. It is true thatthey spend millions on training our lawyers for us. It is also true that they don’t want the restoration of our pre 3 Nov judiciary not being in their national interest.

    Your analogy of fresh egg white making a nice sponge cake and the lawyers movement is not understood. However, let it be known that the lawyer’s movement is not in the business of making sponge cakes. And let it also be known that the bad eggs among the lawyers have already been thrown out of the movement. They have been gleefully picked up by Zardari and Naik to be used for making their own sponge cake.

    " the world recognition you have mentioned seems to be NOT significant…iam not familiar with the newyork bar…all i know is that there are Ghettos in new york whick are worse than the slums of mumbai or karachi…"

    I would rather not comment on this lest you feel offended. I will let others judge the soundness and relevance of this argument if an argument it can be called!

    " May the lord almighty and wise protect your 72 from you…"

    Sir, this is the only worth while and sensible statement you have made in your entire discourse. And I am not laughing about it either.

    Take care and have a nice day.

  233. kabirdas on March 9th, 2009 @ 4:23 pm

    @ fasee on March 9th

    Jealusy KD wouldn’t get you anywhere near the 72. I am sure God will not listen to your prayers and keep his words. He is not like Zardari to backtrack from his writing maiN likhi hooi tehreer :-)

    Join the lawyer movement if you want to qualify for 72. There is still time for it.

  234. balma on March 9th, 2009 @ 7:48 pm


    I don’t know, may be I am a Panjabi too. I do say unnaasi!
    navaasi? It does make more sense, but never even knew about it or about poatee:-) I will ask my mother to count from 80 to 90. If she says navaasi, that will mean I got corrupted by Panjabis in Pakistan. If she says unnaasi, may be we are Panjabis who adopted Urdu in Lucknow….or perhaps this is yahood-o-nasaaraa kee saazish?

    I guess what I was trying to say was that Dawn’s and The News’ headlines are framed the way I see in WSJ, NYT, or Indian newspapers. That led me to believe that our guys are cutting-and-pasting!

  235. kabirdas on March 9th, 2009 @ 8:53 pm

    @ balma

    I learned ‘nawasi’ for 89 from my father who did his matriculation at Delhi. In any case I am pro Delhi school of Urdu. I would like you to ask some Delhi wala what is 89 in Urdu. And if I am proven right you will agree that Punjabis can teach a thing or so to Alh-e-Zuban about Urdu.

    Yousfi the famous banker ( Chairman banking council of Pakistan) and excellent writer of many humorous books in Urdu ( Sar Guzasht and Zar Aamid etc) was I think Gujrati married to a Ahl-e-Zuban wife. He often used to check with his wife if a certain Urdu word he used was indeed a Urdu word or not. His use of word ‘Rokra’ for cash once became an issue. He was told that it was not an Urdu word. He decided to ask his wife about it.
    When asked if ‘Rokra’ was an Urdu word and if she has seen it being used by some one. She dutifully confirmed that indeed it was an Urdu word and has seen being used as such.
    When asked who has she seen using it as such. She promptly replied: ‘You.’

    So be careful who you check 89 with and the company he keeps:-)

  236. balma on March 9th, 2009 @ 9:11 pm

    Yusufi is from Rajhastan. i recently attended a book reading by him. I remember reading his ‘zargazisht’ twenty years, and I remember his talking about hsi brith place being Rajhastan.

    Yeah, Karachi Urdu is mostly Dehli-style Urdu. Lucknow Urdu will be too cool for Karachi:-)

    Everyone should be open minded to learn from others, even from Panjabis:-)

  237. kabirdas on March 9th, 2009 @ 11:11 pm

    @ balma

    I just now spoke to one of my well educated Alh-e-Zuban friend at Karachi about Urdu counting and pronunciation of certain words. Here is what he has to say about it:

    1. 89 in Urdu is indeed ‘nawasi’ which is called by Punjabis as ‘Unasi’.
    2. 79 in Urdu is ‘Unasi’ which is called by Punjabi as ‘Unhattar’.

    If you come to think over it without any prjudice against Punjabis I think Punjabis calling 79 as Unhattar and 89 as Unasi is more logical and less anamolus than Ahl-e-Zuban calling 89 as Nawasi and 79 as Unasi. By the same token it can perhaps also be said that Punjabis are more logical and sensible people than the Ahl-e-Zuban despite being pigs otherwise.

    On the matter of pronunciation he says that Ahl-e-Zuban’s young lot has started pronouncing ‘zay’ as ‘jay’ and ‘khay’ as ‘ k-hay’ because of the influence of Indian movies. In Indian movies they speak Hindi which does not have the sound of ‘khay’ and ‘zay’ like in Urdu. He also agreed with me that Mamon and Gujrati perhaps also don’t have these Urdu language sounds.

    Now I have started thinking of another such problem which is even more tricky than this. I had a East Pakistani( Begali)friend named Nizam-ud-Din Ahmed. We also had a common West Pakistani friend whose name was Javed-ul-Zafar.

    Now this East Pakistani used to pronounce his name as ‘ Nijam’. That is fair enough if there was no sound of ‘zay’ in Bengali. But then it seems there is a sound of ‘Zay’ in Bengali because he used to call Javed-ul-Zafar as Zaved-ul-Jafar’. How would you explain this ???

    I don’t know why am I wasting my time discussing all this when I have yet to pack my bag pack for the dharna with all kind of stuff like stones and a hip flask etc :-)

    By the way you have yet to wish me luck with the dhrna or is it that you think Kangroo courts are the best for a country like ours where a major chunk of population seems to have gone bonkers??

  238. kabirdas on March 9th, 2009 @ 11:31 pm

    @ balma

    Sorry, forgot to ask you if you call 89 as Unasi then what do you call 79 as. If the answer is Unhattar then you better have your DNA done to trace your roots. Boy!! I am waiting for your answer and hoping it to be ‘Unhatter’!
    I am thinking of giving the same kind of 79/89 test to our friend barrister to see how much of a Mohajir he is. Imagine if we found that like you his roots also lie somewhere in Pungab. That will at least make him change his views about Punjabis and he may well decide to be called a Punjabi than a pig:-)

    I also forgot to say that I agree with you that we should all be open minded like Punjabis and teach others :-)

  239. balma on March 10th, 2009 @ 12:26 am

    I believe judges are the most corrupt people in Pakistan. I guess they are more corrupt than the police and vakeels.
    But, in theory there should be free judiciary or whatever they are talking about in Pakistan. Therefore, good luck to you.

    One of Gandhi’s son had become Muslim. Obviously, no matther how great or not great Gandhi was, it must have hurt his feelings a little bit….obviously, he must have felt that his own family member had left his culture. Well, some siyaasi chaalbaaz type journalist once asked Gandhi how he felt….hamaray jounalists bhee bohut haraami hai’n….and Gandhi kept his cool and said: well, if by becoming Muslim his son’s alcoholism can be cured, he is all for it.

    Both Jinnah and Gandhi had problem children. They were so much into politics that they couldn’t pay attention to their own kids.

    Recently, I noticed they made a movie (produced by Feroze Khan, I guess) in India on Gandhi’s son, and his conversion is mentioned.

    The point is that if this lawyers movement can lead to something good, I can tolerate Judge Chaudhary, because he will retire soon anyway and we should have the right system, personalities don’t matter – also I actually liked him..his suo-motto stuff…. But, the system will be fixed. What I can’t tolerate is Navaz NoSharif using this as a back door entry into the PM house for the third time. I don’t want him.
    As I ahve said before, I rather have Zardari than someone who dreamt of becoming the amir-ul-momineen.

    I used to prefer Navaz over BB (BudBakht), but after her death Zardari seems better choice than Navaz. Also, Zardari is better for Karachi. BB zyaadah kameeni thee, and I always thought that she wants to revenge her father’s death from Pakistan….but Zardari has no such issues. He is just an opportunist…which is fine by Allama Balma.

    And, let me count here….

    sattar, ikhattar, bahattar, tehattar, chauhattar, pachhatar, che-attar, satattar, athattar, unnathar, ass’sse, ikeyaasi, beyaasi, treaassi, chauraasi, pachhasi, cheaassi, sattaasi, athtaasi, unaassi, navvay…

    Hence, I am a Panjabi! Oops ;-)

    I have made a note to myself to check my Urdu dictionary over the weekend to resolve the confusion you have created. I think you should go for dharnaa for a few days so us Urdu speakers can live in peace for a while.

    And, you wouldn’t believe balma, but you will believe your other friend that Urdu speaking kids are now mispronouncing ‘khays’….aahaaa!?

    Local scripts for ALL Indian languages don’t have ‘z’, ‘q’, and ‘khay’ sounds or such letters. Urdu and Sindhi use Arabic script, so they do have such letters. When people write Urdu in Devnagri script, they write a nuktaa below ‘ja’ in devnagri to write ‘z’ sound…..or a nukta below k.h sound (they have one letter for this khaanaa sound) will make it ‘khay’.

    btw, I am thinking that jeem to zay conversion is the reason for Bengalis to mess up jeem and zay as well. I guess, if their sounds don’t have z, and they have to write it and remember it…to err is human:-)

    oh, by the way, now no one in karachi can pronounce q, khay anyway (as you have just confirmed), but until few decades ago, people used to notice that Hyderabadis can’t pronounce ‘q’ too….so, lets not just bad mouth Panjabis. The hyderabadis pronounce q as ‘khay’.
    For example, it will be Khaid-e-azam kee Khuraan-Quwani….this last q is UP people making fun of Hyderabadis.

    There was this hyderabadi kid in our school, and we kids all used to ahve fun. We would say, Karim, bolo : qatrah qatrah mil kar daryaa bantaa hae….and poor Karim, totally oblivious to the difference, will say: Khatrah khatrah mil kar daryaa bantaa hae. We used to get a good laugh.

    And, the funny thing is that all major actors and actresses in India have to get training in Urdu pronounciation….I don’t think Indian movies are the reason for Urdu kids to speak bad Urdu. I guess the real reason is taht they want to act like they can’t speak Urdu properly. The ability to speak Urdu properly is looked down upon in Karachi.
    Kabir Daas sahib, yeh sub qiyaamat kay aasaar hai’n:-)

  240. بستنی (wasiq) on March 10th, 2009 @ 1:12 am

    @ fasee sab….

    ps: liked yr example of eggs…will quote it for a few days ( without aknowledging your copyrights )….hehe i love piracy in pakistan

    sir by all means you are most welcome….I told you i have been taught the british constitution maar maar kar….aur ho sakta hai kay aap bhi jantey houon kay Unwritten british constitution ka copy writter toh aaj tak born hee nahein hua hai…..

    Bechara Wasiq toh hai aik mohra ay 5points cheeze(ratrace)

    farzeen sey bhi poshida thay chacho kay irradey

    fasee sab huzoor aap toh sharing ki baat na hee karein toh achcha hai…….idher ho sakta hai kay aap church of pakistan ki adam dilchaspi kay bais bach gaay houn per akhirat main toh aap ko nikki hee milni hai….woh bhi agar KD sarkar kay muk muka waley rule of law sey bach gaie….

    I decided long ago, never to walk in anyone’s shadows
    If I fail, if I succeed
    At least I’ll live as I believe
    No matter what they take from me
    They can’t take away my dignity
    Because the greatest love of all
    Is happening to me

    @KD sarkar…..iam very very sorry sir i had no idea that a learned person like yourself could laugh at the sketch of a dacadent society now i realise why in britain a barrister is called an officer of the court and QC…while here in pakistan a peshkar is more than an officer of a court than a practising lawyer of years and years of practice….iam very very sorry sir.

    khuda hum ko aaise khudaie na dey

    kay apney siwaa kuch dikaaie na dey

  241. odin on March 10th, 2009 @ 1:28 am



  242. odin on March 10th, 2009 @ 1:49 am



    By the way, do you live pul ke us paar? Because pul ke is taraf children still pronounce Urdu letters like khey, qaaf and gheyn correctly, at least most of them. But it can be quite possible that I have failed to notice this revolution because my Karachi visits are always very short.

  243. balma on March 10th, 2009 @ 2:16 am

    No, i don’t live in Korangi or Qayummabad or KalaPul or Akhtar Colony or Dehli colony:-)

    This is a burger issue, not pul kay iss taraf yaa oos paar issue.
    You can find burgers anywhere in the city.

    nau – 9
    unnees – 19
    unnatees – 29
    untaalees – 39
    unchaas – 49
    unsaTh – 59


    unnathar – 69 hmmmmm..
    unnaasi – 79 hmmmmmm…..
    ????unnaasi???? – 89 hmmmmmmmmmm….

    Something is fishy here:-)

    I guess I am a burger:-)
    I will check my Feroze-ul-lughat over the weekend.

  244. fasee on March 10th, 2009 @ 2:35 am

    @ balma.

    salma ke balma ji..khuda ka khoof karain…aap ne nani aur nawasi per itna maal dump kiya hai ke aap per meray ko anti-dumping duty lagani paray gi.

    STOP..before there is no place left for me to dump my perls of wisdom.

    @ wasiq
    thanks for granting me authority to use they quote…i didnt had anymore space to put one more gunnah…man i seriosuly need a chinese garbage moving company to outsource my stuff

  245. fasee on March 10th, 2009 @ 2:50 am

    @ KD

    intehai ghair wasooq zarai say pata laga hai…ke 72 nymphshasil krny ke do hi tareekayhain

    1) join TNSM..Tehreek-e-Nifaz-e-Shaitani-Mullah..
    but i heard problem is whole sawat is lining up to join them…as thyhave nothing esle to do…

    2)somehow get a key to a girls hostel….and try your luck during winter….heard there hormoe level shhot sky hih by that time.

    so i wud certaintly choose the second option.

    yeh jhagray ker ke 72 aap hi rakiyee

  246. kabirdas on March 10th, 2009 @ 12:05 pm

    @ fasee

    You sound like a practical kind of guy. I wont be able to do the kind of things Swati Taliban do to qualify for the 72 damsels in Jannat. However, I can try the second option suggested by you if I come back from the battle of Constitution Avenue with my shield and body parts intact :-)

    A guy like me once applied for the job of a Chawkidar of a girls hostel. He was selected for the job. On his appointment he was thoroughly briefed about his duties and responsibilities and working hours etc. At he end of the briefing he was told about how much he will be paid and when. He was most surprised to hear this and asked with a incredulous look at his face:
    " And do I really get paid for this also??"

  247. بستنی (wasiq) on March 10th, 2009 @ 12:56 pm

    arts council waloun ney kisi allama wasiq ki yaad main aik mujrey ka ahtimaam kiya hai…subhan allah subhan allah…(daily dawn pg 20)

    @fasee sab….sir aap baat samajh nahein rahey hain yeah british constitution main kon hota houn authority leyney ya deyney wala…khair aik aur article hai aaj kay din ki munasibat se….zara khayal rahey kahein islamabad police kay haath na lag jaay…
    1 truck soja suppreme oil ya malta banaspati
    2 truck cheeni
    3 truck suji
    4 truck khalis Bhang

  248. fasee on March 10th, 2009 @ 9:05 pm

    ik kaam kartay hain…adha adha khaa letay hain….bhang wlay truck mujhay bej dain baki ke truck aap rakh lain

  249. balma on March 11th, 2009 @ 12:24 am


    On a blog related to Mullahs’ badmaashi and with some discussion of science few days ago over here, I am surprised I didn’t bring up the tragic situation in Pakistan where a Mullah type of fazlu’s gang has been appointed the minister for science and technology. As Shashi Kapur said in the movie "Muhafiz" (English title – In custody-): kyaa ab yeh naubat aa gayee hae?
    And, also the minister for tourism is someone else from Fazlu’s gang?
    yak nah shood, dou shood!

    Actually, Maulana Abul Kalam Azad was appointed first education minister of Independent India. The early planning and set up of IIT Kharagpur occured on his watch. Maulana Azad, unlike Maulana Jauhar etc was not Oxford/Cambridge graduate, but he was an educated man. At least he had the sense to plan for the expansion of technological education in India. But, two paisa jahil maulvis of fazlu type are totally useless, i believe. Prove Balma wrong, Fazlu kay TaTToo, and do some thing good for science in Pakistan.

  250. fasee on March 11th, 2009 @ 1:29 am

    @ balma..

    was is minstry of tourism oor minstry of terrorism….??

    going by the trend there can be a reshuffle

    minstry for religious affairs = mr slaman taseer
    minstry of agricultre = bilawal bhutto
    minstry of Infomration technology = jahangir badar
    Minstry of minority afffairs = nawaz shareef
    misntry of tourism = baitallah masood
    minstry of women affair = imran khan
    minstry of law = abdul qayoom

  251. بستنی (wasiq) on March 11th, 2009 @ 7:13 am

    @fasee sab…sir aap halwa khaoo mast ho jao..khali truck ka kya kariyeah gaa…?

  252. fasee on March 11th, 2009 @ 10:42 am

    peshawar say kabul amreeka ke container move karoon ga…aur salary ke 10 % jihad fund main doon ga

  253. بستنی (wasiq) on March 11th, 2009 @ 12:28 pm

    10%what you are getting now or 10% of what you get on return from kabul….because that would be too much…
    to wait for…

  254. fasee on March 11th, 2009 @ 3:04 pm

    sir i will keep the whole profit and submitt my pathan driver and afghani cleaner to tahreek-e-taliban as contribution to jahad.

    they will get 72 there and i will get my 1 here…dono kush

  255. kabirdas on March 11th, 2009 @ 3:10 pm

    @ fasee on March 11th

    What about 10% of Mr. Zardari or is it 20% now ? You will hardly be left with any dough for your kuppi in that case.

  256. kabirdas on March 11th, 2009 @ 3:46 pm

    @ balma

    Balma jee must you chiRko namank on my wounds particulary when I am preparing for the long march and more importantly dahrane followed by Ghero, Jalao and Dafnao.

    Mullah has been claiming, for quite some time now, to be as much of a scientist as any body else by virtue of his being an expert on Quaran and Quran being the source of all science. Mullah thus consider himself to be well ahead of most scientists in the field of Science. It is for this reason that a close associate of Fazlu aka Maulana Diesel has been appointed as the minister for Science and Technology.
    As for all science being there in Quran a scientist Mullah will often invite your attention to following Ayyats of Quran which according to him cover most 100 to 400 level science courses in any American university:

    (quran. chapter 6: verse 133) The evolution of species,
    (7:40) Black hole singularity,
    (7:54)The sequence of day and night,
    (10:5)Natural and reflected light,
    (10:5)The speed of light,
    (10:24) Time zones – earth rotation,
    (10:34)Genetic code reproduction,
    (10:61) Subatomic particles,
    (3:2) Gravitational forces
    (16:68-69) Cure of honey
    (21:33) The spherical earth
    (21:33) Orbital movement of celestial bodies
    (21:33) The sun – rotation and revolution
    (22:73) The fly
    (23:12-14) Human embryonic development
    (23:112,113) Relativity in the Qur’an
    (24:35) Nuclear reactions in stars
    (24:40) Deep sea currents
    (24:40) Darkness in a deep sea
    (24:43) The Qur’an on clouds
    (24:43) Hail and lightning
    (25:53) Barriers between the seas and rivers
    (25:54) The creation from water
    (27:88) Earth’s movement in space
    (29:41) The thread of the spider
    (30:30) No change in genetic code
    (30:48) The water cycle
    (31:29) The rounded shape of the earth
    (32:7) Clay: the beginning of humankind
    (34:3) Atomic weight
    (34:9) Stones from the sky
    (36:38) The apex of our solar system
    (36:39) The phases of the moon
    (36:39) The moon’s orbit
    (36:40) The fixed way of earth’s rotation
    (39:5) The spinning of the earth
    (39:6) Layers of the womb
    (39:68) Black holes
    (41:10) How old is the earth?
    (41:11) The gaseous universe
    (41:12) The cosmic constants
    (41:53) Horizons
    (42:29) Life on other planets
    (46:15) The full maturity of man
    (47:15) Thermal receptors in bowels
    (51:47) The expansion of the universe
    (51:47) The evolution of universe
    (53:45,46) Embryonic sex determination
    (53:45,47) Pairs of everything
    (55:33) The conquest of space
    (55:37) The new reddening of the cosmos
    (56:75,76) The position of stars
    (57:25) Formation of iron (heavy elements)!
    (70:4) The age of the universe
    (70:4) The speed of time
    (71:14) Creation in stages
    (75:4) Fingerprints
    (76:2) Fertilization liquid
    (77:7,8) The death of stars
    (78:6,7) Stabilizing mountains
    (81:1) The collapse of the sun
    (84:16) The sun’s afterglow
    (86:1,2,3) Knocking stars – pulsars
    (86:11) Heaven’ss returning capacity
    (89:1,3) The even and the odd
    (91:1) The importance of sunlight
    (92:1) Why the universe is dark?
    (95:15,16) The quran on the cerebrum
    (99:2) Reversal of gravity

    Now you never thought the Quran was a book of science did you? And you never knew that our best scientist in tousands were living in tribal areas of Pakistan did you??

  257. fasee on March 11th, 2009 @ 4:10 pm

    @ KD.

    no problem….sir fhum pakistani log buhat baray jugaroo hain.

    ku’pi nahe tu kiya huwa…will be doign samad bond, although i rather doubt that you may know what samad bond high is all about.?

  258. balma on March 11th, 2009 @ 7:02 pm

    Oh, KD bhai, yeh kaha’n sae cut-and-paste kyaa hae?

  259. kabirdas on March 11th, 2009 @ 7:19 pm

    @ fasee
    I must admit I don’t know what samad bond high is ? By the way KD is such an old dog that he is quite amenable to learning new tricks from kids. So sir, pray what this samad bond high is?
    Knowledge is strength particularly the type which can become handy when the going is tough and the toughs have to keep going.
    Once a senior of ours claimed that during war they use to filter Brasso (Brass polish)through socks and drink it to feel high. We always made fun of him for pulling such a fast one on us. Now after hearing about samad bond high I wonder if there was some truth in what our senior said about Brasso high.

  260. kabirdas on March 11th, 2009 @ 8:36 pm

    @ balma

    You are not with it. For past many years effort is being made by our Ulma-e-Karam, suffering from a inferiority complex, to show that Quran has all science hidden in it. In Pakistan various book shops have hundred of books and DVDs available on the subject of ‘Quran and Science’. Dr. Naik Niaz (a medical doctor) is a great religious scholor of India who comes on various religious TV channels and speak inter alia on this subject. His books and DVDs are abundantly available in book shops all over the world. I have great respect for his knowledge if Islam and other religions. However being student of science myself I totally disgaree with him when he quotes Quran in support of latest scientific theories.
    My previous comments though a cut and paste reflects on the thinking of Naik Niaz and many others like him. I am surprised you are not aware of this aspect of the Jihad of our so called Ulma-e-Karam. I often listen to them on TV channels for my entertainment during TV prime time:-)
    I could pick up some of these references and show how they are distored, stretched and twisted to prove them as great scientific truths but this may not be the right forum for that particulary when I am short of time.

  261. kabirdas on March 11th, 2009 @ 8:55 pm

    @ balma
    With ref to my above comments please don’t aske me if it is so then how come we are not ahead of the west in scientific field particulary when most of us read Quran regularly. I don’t have an answer to this question. This question you can put to some Ulma-e-KARAM. I once asked this question and was told that it is because our IMAN is not PUKHTA. If indeed this is the reason then our Iman must really be so NAPUKHTA that we don’t have a single invention to our credit—-not even a tin opener.

    I think we have chosen a Maulana as our science minister to exploit the knowledge of science that according to them exists in Quran. However, to exploit this knowledge he will have to ensure that our Iman becomes fully PUKHTA. That means our science students may have to do preparatory course in some madrassa for Iman ki Pukhtagi before they embark on the study of science:-)

    Have a nice day sir!!

  262. kabirdas on March 11th, 2009 @ 9:09 pm

    @ balma

    Few moths back I asked the same question, on IMB, about our not being able to invent even a tin opener. ‘Sceptic’ who thinks like me and often writes on IMB and KMB posted following comments in response to my comments which you will find interesting:

    "Dear Kabirdas – You have posed a very interesting question: If we have all scientific and worldly knowledge squeezed in a single book, why over a billion followers (and millions more before them) of that book could not use that guide to invent even a tin-opener?

    I believe that not a single follower of the Quran has, or ever had, his/her Iman Pukhta enough to able to decipher the hidden scientific clues all over. On the other hand, men and women who do not profess any faith in the all encompassing “scientific” book and have no claims on having any Iman, pukhta or napukhta, keep on conquering the field of science as no other could do.

    I don’t expect mullah to think this but seeming educated commentators at this forum must do so: How long can we go on blaming the students for being retards (napukhta Iman) who are unable to acquire/copy the knowledge from the revealed source for the failure of a good chunk of mankind? Perhaps, it is time to question the effectiveness of the textbook and the school the students have to endure? Otherwise, unquestioning minds would keep on believing in cock and bull stories to their own (and others’) detriment.
    something like a tin opener."

  263. بستنی (wasiq) on March 13th, 2009 @ 12:10 am

    @fasee and KD…it seems that both of you….72 kay charkar mein one and only sey bhi gaay….please apni khariyat se lamha ba lamha mutilah kartey raheyeah gaa….waisey pols waley martey bahut bura hain….ouch!

  264. fasee on March 13th, 2009 @ 11:50 am

    yaar cant say bout KD…per me ik darppok ( yani shareef ) admi hoon…..aur her shareef admi ki tarhan ..badmashi sirf apni biwi ko dikhata hoon…baki sab say pit ke ata hoon…..dats why i took a day off aur kambul orh ker ghafr mian chupa raha…not even went to office….ka wukalaa aur police ke joton ke cross fire ke beech main na aa jaon

  265. kabirdas on March 13th, 2009 @ 11:56 am

    @ wasiq
    " waisey pols waley martey bahut bura hain….ouch!"

    To have a valid claim for the company of 72 damsels KD will go down fighting. Eent ka jawab pathar say diea jaay ga. Have packed in my back pack a powerful catapault with ample good size ball bearings. KD is pacifist no more !!

  266. kabirdas on March 13th, 2009 @ 12:10 pm

    @ balma on March 10th

    English Urdu Punjabi

    9 nau nau
    19 unnees unnee
    29 unnatees unntee
    39 untaalees untallee
    49 unchaas unjah or unwinjah
    59 unsaTh unaTh
    69 unnathar unnathar
    79 unnaasi unnassi
    89 nawasi unanway
    99 ninaway niRinway

  267. kabirdas on March 13th, 2009 @ 12:23 pm

    @ fasee

    KD is perhaps more sharif than you. Thats why agar woh darta hay to sirf apni beevi say darta hay. And probably thats why woh 72 kay chakar maeN para howa hay.

    Ab to ghabra kay kahtay haeN kay mar jaieN gay
    Mar kay bhee chaeN na paaya tau kidhar jaeN gay

  268. fasee on March 13th, 2009 @ 12:48 pm

    @ KD.

    wow….halat-e-zamana kiya bana dalta hai banday ko….

    burn all those books, thorw everything civil down the drain….thear down the white shirt adn hang the riavls by the black neck ties they wear….

    are we gogin further into chaos……just like there are so many people who adore and quote french revolution…….and i just give a slight smile.

    guess they idolise french revolution whithout knowing what where the after effects….

    what happened to those who did the french revolution…wna what happened after that……history shud be read as a whole.

    so in our case…whose coming after our own made in pakistan revolution……??? ameer-ul-momineen ganja and qazi ifthikar chaurdry……but wait….aal our judiciary and wukala dont know shit about islamic laws is it…?? kjiya angreez ka kanoon utha ker phaink dain gay…???

    are they helping the taliban themselves……fasee pentium 1 chip heating up processing that equation

  269. balma on March 13th, 2009 @ 8:30 pm


    thanks for listing the numbers in English, Urdu, and Panjabi. And, thanks for causing all the confusion earlier. Now, you seem to say that both in Urdu and Panjabi, 69 is unathar-)
    But, I agree with your earlier claim that it is all screwed up. 69 should be unsath, because 68 is aRsath…..but desis have no logic in anything…..

    btw, please note the following line from The News, journalist Salis bin Something….In Karachi section:

    "Investigations pointed towards Dara Adam Khel and disputed areas of Pakistan as the place where weapons are readily available, while residents of these areas also have possess an expertise…."

    Do you think anyone in India or the US will call any area of their country disputed. From Pakistani perspective, only disputed areas are Indian Kashmir, JunagaRh, Diu and there was another small state in Gujrat.

    This is what I was talking about KD my friend, that our journalists have bad English skills and we should discourage excessive number of English publications in Pakistan……

  270. balma on March 13th, 2009 @ 8:32 pm

    It is from 13th March issue of The News, Karachi section.

  271. balma on March 13th, 2009 @ 8:41 pm

    Regarding your list of inventions/discoveries from Quran, I have printed it and will check them out.

    Btw, last year or so, there was an article by some pissed off writer in "Roohani Digest" who was going mad about the lack of knowledge in science and technology among Muslims. He actually claimed that it is all crap when they talk about gloreous era of Muslim science in the past. He claimed that in total, the Muslim world during the times when Muslims were all powerfull, did not produce more than 100/200 scientists. You have to give credit to Roohaani Digest that they actually printed it.

    My pitaa jee has actually heard a stupid imam saying in his khutbaa at a jumma’a in Karachi (just a couple of years ago) that yahood-o-nisaaraa ko cheezai’n banaanay dou (inventions), hum ko chaahyae keh apnay liyae aakhirat banaayai’n!

  272. fasee on March 13th, 2009 @ 8:56 pm

    while west measure droping climate tempretures, all our mullahs are concerned with plunging neckliness

  273. بستنی (wasiq) on March 14th, 2009 @ 1:07 am

    @kD,fasee sab…..Aik darpok insaan ki zindagi bilkul Tug of war ki manindh hoti hai….Emaan mujhey rokay hai jo khinchey hai mujhey kufr…
    72 merey aagay hai toh one and only merey pechchay….
    jab bhi soonchta houn choord doun issay
    ussi roze bey hisab hoti hai….

    puri qoum ajab si bechani main hai….koi chup raha hai toh koi khul raha hai….laiken iss sub ka faida kya hai….keunki aik judge ya aik CM of a province…kay restore honney ki value toh after load shedding power restore honney kay bara bar bhi nahein hai….kam as kam power restore honney ka yeah faida toh hai kay….aap fan chala saktey hai…

    @balma jee….kya aap ney intelligent imam’s ki banaie huie movies…*terminator…the rise of machine* ya *iam a legand* dekhi hai….woh toh akhirat sey pheley wali akhirat ki bhi taiyari kar rahey hain….aur yehan chacho ko pata hee nahein kay dhrana ho ga yeah nahein…

  274. fasee on March 14th, 2009 @ 9:45 am

    sirf pankha chalan ka itna shauk hia tu pankha chalanay wali le aiyee….khud sakoon say soiyee aur us say boliyee " abay jor jo rsay pankha jhal"……no worries from NGOs either…yeh sab sirf defence main ghomti hain…jamshed town is out of there radar

  275. بستنی (wasiq) on March 14th, 2009 @ 3:05 pm

    @fasee sab…sir aap kay recent comments sey toh aaisa lagta hai kay aap ki job qurashi estates….(jaidad ki khareed o farokhat se ley kar bachchoun ka roshan kal tak…)main packie ho gaie….you are using terms like….panka jhalney wali,barat,upper level management,certification…etc etc….am I right…?

  276. fasee on March 15th, 2009 @ 8:21 am

    shukar hai aap na apna guesswork sirf jaidad ki khareed-o-farkhot tak rakha…kisi aur cheez ki farokht tak le atay tu main kiya bigar leta

    wisay bythe way…quereshiyon main bhi lower and senior managemnt hoti hai…..even malbari chai ka hotel tak have a senior managment.

    reh gai certification tu yaar this year three taget ker raha hoon…am not gathering much steam…as soon as i do i will satyrt that……it will soon be within this week or so

  277. بستنی (wasiq) on March 15th, 2009 @ 9:10 am

    aaj tak yeah baat understand nahein hua kay apna friends (drone wale)ko jab bhi good luck kehna hota hai toh woh kehtey hain *break a leg* abhi yeah kisi ko bolo toh (aap ka inlaw) apna he leg break kar daley…

  278. fasee on March 15th, 2009 @ 10:52 am

    have u seen the latest drone with paintjob outsourced to pakistan.

    that drone had written " dekh magar piyar say on its tail"

    and "jalnay walay tera munh kaala" on the rudder

  279. بستنی (wasiq) on March 16th, 2009 @ 12:02 am

    agar mujh sey likhatey na…toh mein likhta….

    Hum laay hain Irani kay moo sey nikal kay……

    lol!der mujhey iss baat ka nahein hai kay yeah maar rahey hain yeah toh american hain….koi aur piyar se bulaay ga toh odher challey jaein gay….per irani hoshruba parizad ko pata chaley ga kay hum ney uss ki 32 years sey ziyada ki mushaqat pey pani pheir diya hai….aur uss kay moo sey chein kay lay gaay hain toh woh nahein chorday gi….

  280. fasee on March 16th, 2009 @ 12:26 pm

    i think the latest ones have this painted on them

    " Tap’per hai tu fire ker, nai tu bardasht ker "

  281. بستنی (wasiq) on March 16th, 2009 @ 2:41 pm

    gawaahoun kay bayanaat….tribal chieftans aur aap kay bahadur shaheedoun (honney waley) ki chal dhaal dekh kar toh yeahi andaza ho raha hai…

    pheir aaya na toh dekh loun ga…tv per..!

  282. fasee on March 16th, 2009 @ 9:54 pm

    actually we all belive in evolution….we howl louder and louder aiming at the returning drone after emptying its deadly arsnel.

    if we keep on howling like this…one day our throats would be capable of creating such sonic booms to disrupt the singlas or atleast shatter there circuitry and down them…….

    hamray ustad farma gai hain

    drone sa na ghabra aik pathan

    ye tu urta hai tujhay uranay ke liyee

  283. بستنی (wasiq) on March 17th, 2009 @ 9:46 am

    Hum se un ko ziyada matlab hai nahein…aatey woh osama kay peichay hain jana unn ko dehli hai….swat main trout farming karne hai..hum log toh sirf time pass hain…real planes iss lian nahein use kar saktey kay aap log chura lo gay…kuch nahein toh design hee chura lo gay…akhir war on terror main saath saath hain rasta toh hum sey hee ponchtey hain perdesi….khair…jab yeah dehli tak jaein gay toh aap kay ustaz kehtey hain

    Faqir ana aaay sada kar chaley
    miaan khush raho hum ko drone ley chaley..

  284. fasee on March 17th, 2009 @ 2:37 pm

    I heard ..jisay pathan ki dreams me 10 saal ke chiknay chiknay londay atay hain..

    usi tarhan drones ki dreams main bushy pathan aur burqa posh ninja turtles ati hain….

    this rumour is subject to confirmation form drone itself

  285. بستنی (wasiq) on March 17th, 2009 @ 7:59 pm

    fasee sab kuch ponch rahey hain….

    tuk tuk dekhe, pal pal dekhe, dekhe aankhe phaad ke –
    dur dur se, ghur ghur ke, maare najariya taad ke
    arre yeh to bata – dekhata hai tu kya
    arre yeh to bata dekhata hai tu kya
    khul ke bata de o DRONERIA, dekhata hai tu kya

  286. fasee on March 18th, 2009 @ 11:06 am

    I heard drone was thinking of taking a suomoto action againt KMB for insulting the image of drone

  287. بستنی (wasiq) on March 18th, 2009 @ 1:05 pm

    yeah kya Drone bahal ho giya without KD and long march…?

  288. fasee on March 18th, 2009 @ 3:03 pm

    and i heard he was abusing his power by stealing petrol form his qouta for flying…fazlu was sellign that extra in black marekt for him

  289. بستنی (wasiq) on March 18th, 2009 @ 9:03 pm

    arey aap ney sunna…ab toh chaman ki taraf bhi drone shuru….kya aap bata saktey ho kay inshaAllah karachi yeah drone kab tak shuru hoein gay…aur sub sey pheley kis area main hoein gay…..mera toh idea hai kay sohrab goth aur soldier bazar drone attack shuru ho ga….sohrab goth main bachchay kuchey afghani hain aur idher memon bachchi kay pass puraney radi afghani….sarey bhagoney ka berdaa garak kar diya….

  290. fasee on March 19th, 2009 @ 12:17 pm

    karachi wud be confusing for them…as its such a rascist city.

    when drone will come…he will be overloaded by requests from bhaiyaz tu attack talibans in surabh goth…pathans to attack nazmabad to clean MQM-terrorists……punjabis syaing to attack suburban goths of sindhi maroon…..liyaari for magsi dakeets and….oops…i forgot ..where the hell those damn punjabis live in akrachi….evreywhere……so better leave them and kill there poster boy in raiwind

  291. kabirdas on March 19th, 2009 @ 12:51 pm

    @ fasee

    The fact of the matter seems to be that every body loves Punjabis in Karachi (except my brother Barrister of course who loves pigs more than the Punjabis) which is evident from the fact that they don’t have to stick together and live in a ghetto.

    I often wonder why don’t I see bumper stickers in Karachi which say: I LOVE PUNJABIS MORE THAN PIGS. I am thinking of putting up such a bumper sticker on my car to express my noncontrovercial view point. You may also try that if you really think so.

  292. fasee on March 19th, 2009 @ 2:11 pm

    on the contrary sir….when media flashing images of guy dancing with a dog on his shoulders with "zardari" pasted on the dog’s back….

    i guess i wud put the idea on back burner…since i love punjabis as much as i hate memons / sindhis / balochis / bhaiyaz / pathans / but no i hate afghanis…….but the thing i love most is my car…whoz wind screen i dont want to damage.

    as either it wud be attached by a sindhi due to punjabi wrriten on it…or a suicside bomber due to word PIG wrriten on it.

    i can say .."i LOVE Pakistan" but then i might be attached by all those sindhis mahajirs punjabis balochis pathans and afhganis ( specially afghanis ) for loving pakistan…..

  293. بستنی (wasiq) on March 19th, 2009 @ 3:12 pm

    @KD sarkar….ponchi wahein pey khaak jahan ka khameer tha….kya garmian khatam ho gaein chuttee shuru ho gaie…hum toh samjhey thay kay aap log gilgit sey torkham kay rastey afghanistan ya uss sey aagay….

    @fasee sab….na jee naa drone ko toh sirf afghani manghta hai…goongay bahrey hain gen centcom ki nahein suntey….lagta hai Nasa ney kachra satellite sey bana ya hai….

  294. kabirdas on March 19th, 2009 @ 9:48 pm

    @ fasee on March 19th

    1. Sir, are you feeling sorry for the dog or for Mr. Zardari :-)

    2. KD never proposes anything without due thought. Think about my proposed bumper sticker once again. Nobody will feel offended by it except perhaps the pigs but then there are no pigs around in Karachi, the biped variety, who will take an offence and react.

    I wouldn’t put this bumper sticker on my car in Islamabad where pigs of both variety, biped and quadruped abound.

  295. kabirdas on March 19th, 2009 @ 10:10 pm

    @ wasiq
    " ponchi wahein pey khaak jahan ka khameer tha"

    Wish it was so.
    Landed in Gilgit but spent the day in Hunza. A place I love. Seemed we were not in Pakistan. 100% litracy rate. All children, male and female, looking cheerful, going to schools in clean and colourful uniform. Women working alongside men without much ado. Visiting a fort under renovation we were briefed by two young girls one an architect from NCA Lahore the other a civil engineer from NED Karachi. Saw a group of girls using laptop at the site. More school than mosques. Hardly saw a mosque. Didn’t hear a single azan. Have an own University now. People are extremly courteous. Give you a smile and wish you salam when passing you.

    Believe saudi funded Mullas are now active in Gilgit and Sakardu but not in Hunza. Here Agha Khan is keeping them out. Wish rest of Pakistan was like Hunza.

  296. بستنی (wasiq) on March 20th, 2009 @ 7:34 am

    Saw a group of girls using laptop at the site.

    @KD sarkar….i am glad you had a wonderful time…there.its too late it is beyond HH’s grasp….as i say on such occasions…*bachay ga toh koi bhi nahein*

    mujhey tum sey muhabat hai
    mujhey tum sey aqidat hai….

  297. fasee on March 20th, 2009 @ 11:04 am

    @ KD on 19th….

    sir neither for dog nor for zardari….i feel pathetic for the short term memory, when PML (n) protest why salman taseer is using non parlimentary language agiasnt nawaz.

    ( jaisya parlimant me bari sharaft say baat hoti hai..)

    @ wasiq…..
    "pohanchi waheen pe khaak…."

    sir hamaray ustaad is maukay pe dosra mahawara kehtay hain

    " Jithay di khoti…uthay aan kholoti"

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