The Shanaakht Festival
The Citizens Archive of Pakistan brings to you The Shanaakht festival – a chance to rediscover your identity. This five day event will run from the 8th to 12th of April 2009 at the Arts Council Karachi. The theme this year is early Pakistan.
Shanaakht caters to all youngsters from every part of society. To find out the past, present and future of Pakistan, there are an exciting range of exhibits- films, documentaries, talk shows, art and photography exhibitions, theatre, concerts and lots more!
Join us to celebrate being Pakistani in every way!
You can also Be a part of the magic by volunteering for this amazing festival! You get a chance to add to your CV a volunteer experience that is unique and exciting and allows you to work with great artistes such as Amean J, Sheema Kirmani, Rahat Kazmi, Durriya Kazi.
Be part of a spectacular musical event featuring some of Pakistan’s hottest musical talents. Find potential to learn more about not only your history, but your future.
Be a part of history in the making! The slots are filling up fast!!
Write to us at volunteershanaakht@gmail.com
call at 0312 509 6093.
Get your very own CAP T-Shirts and Volunteer badges at our exclusive two-day briefing session a week before the festival.
send us a copy of your ID card and passport size photographs by March 25th at the latest, It’s even better to scan your ID card and passport size photographs and email them to us on volunteershanaakht@gmail.com or please call 0312- 509 6093 if you want to drop them off personally- Please remember to call in advance to get directions and access to our office.
We are now looking for volunteers specifically for the following times:
8th, 9th and 10th April – 2 pm to 7 pm and 7 pm to 12 am (midnight)
11th and 12th April – 9 am to 2 pm, 2 pm to 7 pm and 7 pm to 12 am (midnight)
Credits: Batool Habib
Volunteer needed for "I own arts council" program . wasay " I own karachi bhi chalay ga "
@firstofficer….keun jee…kya jhardoo ponchey ka budget nahein rakha this year….? lol!
to the topic….what madame Obaid and her dedicated soldiers are doing may or may not have been done before….but I really admire her dedication….especially because there is a pakistani Identity involved…the only difference between her and mr shareef is that they are looking in the opposite directions of the present….anyways…I wish them both luck….as far as attending this event is concerned….I am clearly Uninvited…..lol(blnt)
char din ki zindagi hai koft sey kya faida
khaa double roti clerki kar khushi sey phool ja
agar major population larkiyon ki hai tu fasee midnight tak anthak mehnat ke jazbay sa sharsaar volunteeairy kernay ko tayar hain.
koi bulai tu sahee
@fasee
Yeah bola zinda dil no-jawan … App nay yea kah ker sabeet ker dyea kay aap bhi pakistani hay …. :)
@ jamash
" To find out the past, present and future of Pakistan"
I needn’t go. In the past I am not interested in any more. The present I can see right in front with my naked eyes. The future I can read as a writing on the wall which most others fail to read.
@fasee sab…pakistani no jawan no ko toh unn kay chakar pey perdhna hee nahein chahiyeah…..
hummaray aik buzurg hain bachpan main (apney nahein merey) piya des (USA)sidharey….kafi arsa baad wapas aaay toh mrs qurashi ney pakrd liya…aur apna best piece saath kar diya….indian libas main toh bilkul prom queen lagti thein….hum pareshan kay kis bhasha main baat karein….buzurg saath ley gaay aur jaldi wapas kar gaay…yeah keh kar kay aagay se american nahein dikhti….khuda janey iss ka kya matlab hai…
kuch arsey baad london kisi ghair zaroori kaam sey gaay….Mrs patel ney dekh liya….aur saath apna best piece kar diya….indian libas main bilkul miss universe dikhti thein….sab ney unn sey bhi kata taaluq kar liya…yeah keh kar kay….pechchay sey Pakistani nahein dikhti…..parosan kay driver ki qassam….khuda janey is kay kya matlab hai….
story toh finish ho gaie hai per…achcha
aaj kal piya kay des main korean’s kay saath rehtey hain….dil jigar nazar sub jati rahe hai per phir bhi bahut khush hain…..mujhey bhi her sal lent main nai offer deytey hain….kehtey hain aajo sub sey milaoun ga…iss dafa wali offer bahut hee tempting hai….jamshedtown kay car seller’s ki sitie gumm hai….mera apna hal bhi kuch ziyada achcha nahein….
jo chala giya mujhey chordh kar wohi aaj tak merey saath hai..
(dekhein dekhein iss pey madame kya kehte hain….lol)
@ wasiq
Your comments are generally interesting to read but may I suggest not to write the entire comments in Roman Urdu which you will agree is somewhat tedious to read. One or two sentences here and there in Roman Urdu are like spice in the food but too much of it ruins the whole thing. Thats what I feel. May be I am not conversant with Roman Urdu like you or most others. Anyway do consider my suggestion favourably if you can. Thanks.
@ fasee
One must be checked from ‘coming’ in public:-) (pun is intended)
@KD sarkar….sir you are absolutely right….it must be difficult for most readers….to understand the roman urdu. i have no problem with either….language or the script…my English school teacher sleeps just few windows away…and my urdu class teacher…lives a block away…
I usually reply to you and barrister sab in English here its only when i am replying to sir fasee sab i do get a little carried away and unwind.
I don’t know if you have ever been at the receiving end of the Auntie disco project(not the band) when you show up all dressed up in black tie at a function where everybody is in a shalwar kameez or t-shirt and jeans…you look around for someone a little similar to you…if not than you unbutton take off the jacket the tie goes in the pocket and you roll up the sleeves…just to cover up the initial embarrassment…
I feel that by the use of roman urdu i am reaching out to the non computer literate jamati’s….very easily…they usually have the best equipment state of the art technology but keep it under cover…in a corner of their drawing room just to show off…very rarely use it.mostly just to read my comments.
I sometime feel that my English is very blunt and straightforward people don’t like it..especially the ladies…and ever since you sir and fasee sab have mentioned Mrs KD and Mrs Fasee…who dislike you being on the net all the time….i know that sooner or later they will find out about me…and will blame me for keeping you away from them and their needs…i want them to know that it was not me….i am just a scape goat…if i have guessed it right…only my roman urdu or panjabi can save me there….
@PN….i knew you would get even someday for uss ada but had no idea you would get…..
Na janey kis Ada se liya tu ney mera naam
dunia samajh rahi hai kay abb chal bassa houn meinnnn
Fasiq,
Can’t you type Urdu on KMB?
Unfortuately, due to our education policies, none of us probably learned Urdu keyboard!
btw, I have heard that Mrs. KD appreciates KD’s KMB activities. We at KMB keep him away from various masaajids in his neighborhood.
@balma jee…..you may have notice one of the regular commenter by the name of duffer writes in Urdu….its even more difficult to read than write..but iam looking for an oral dictation type software…that would make it real fun….
where have you heard that Mrs KD appreciates his KMB activities…I think that KD loves his wife too much….when a man loves a woman this much…he joins the salvation Army sooner or later…
Wherever you go, whatever you do
I will be right here, waiting for you
Whatever it takes, or how my heart breaks
I will be right here waiting for you
@ wasiq
the only oral dictating software fasee knows of comes in skirts or shalwars only…..but fasee even after trying so hard was unable to get an approvel from bosses for one…..shucks this job sucks.
@ KD.
sir on your comments i just remembered a "ikhlaaq say gira huwa latifa" but i risk being banned again…so i wud leave for some other time.
@ wasiq & KD.
why do we use term roman urdu but not roman punjabi or roman pashto even…??
@ wasiq on March 23rd
Your comments did make lot of sense. Enjoyed reading them. You are right about Mrs. fasee and Mrs. Kabir Das being unhappy with our being on the internet all the time. But what about other Mrs’ particularly Mrs. Balma. You reckon they sing and dance when they see their husbands on the net ?
Sir, when (and if) you will get married the first thing that you may try to figure out will be what does a woman want. I suggest you don’t waste any time on this age old enigma. Nobody has been able to figure this out.
Will Durant came close to answering this question when he said: All a woman wants is a baby.
I have digressed a little bit. What I wanted to tell you was that when you get married bear in mind that anything that pleases you will displease your Mrs. Once you know that carry on doing what pleases you irrespective of what your ‘bitter half’ thinks of it.
OK got to go. Hear some one coming up the stairs huffing and puffing. Don’t have to wonder why !!
@ balma
Though Mrs KD has given up forcing KD to go to mosque after the incident of rock throwing by some faithfull she does not approve of KDs KMB activities. Well, what does she really want ? I have already answered this question above. Why does she not like my KMB activity ? I have also answered this question above. She doesn’t like my KMB activity because it is some thing that pleases me.
By the way she has given up forcing me to go to the mosque. But from time to time she still pesters me to say my prayers at home. The other day I told her I will do that on one condition. The condition I put forward was that I will say the prayers provided I am allowed to grow a beard also. That has really put her off the idea of prayers at home also:-)
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=168855
Mr. KD, check this URL for a definition of Kuppi. I didn’t know what it really meant until I read this article.
Everyone, I heard that the Vali-ahed is in town in Karachi? Koee unn kay deedaar kay liyae gayaa?
KD Saab, one thing you will note in the article is that the sale of alcohol goes up in Ramzaan. This I found quite delightful;-)
can you find the right firqah for me?
@ fasee
" sir on your comments i just remembered a "ikhlaaq say gira huwa latifa" but i risk being banned again…so i wud leave for some other time."
During his trials Oscar Wilde was told by his prosecuting lawyer that in his opinion his book ‘The Picture of Dorian Gray’ was an immoral book? I don’t remember the exact words of Oscar Wilde’s reply but he said something to the effect that a book is either well written or badly written. It is never a moral or immoral.
By the same token I can safel say that there is no such thing as "ikhlaaq say gira huwa latifa". It will either be a good latifa or a bad latifa.
"why do we use term roman urdu but not roman punjabi or roman pashto even…??"
It is a good question. And the definiton of a good question is that the respondent knows its answer:-)
English in India needed to learn and speak certain languages. They found it convenient to write and read these in English script ( I am not sure why it was called roman script). Urdu and also Pushto were two such languages which they wrote and read in English script. Our own soldiers also had to qualify these courses of Roman Urdu and Pushto. They had to qualify different level courses in the army for their promotion. The highest course was that of interpretation which was also conducted in Roman script.
However, English did not consider it necessary to develop Roman Punjabi for some reason. They probobaly thought it was good only for ‘swearing’ purposes for which they thought English would suffice. Had they know the depth and wealth of Punjabi swear words they would have not only developed and learned Roman Punjabi also but introduced the Punjabi swear words in English replacing their own mild and ineffective swear words :-)
Mujhay Urdu kee lazeez gaaliyaa’n yaad aa rahee hae’n:-)
Are Panjabi gaalis that much different from Urdu gaalees?
In other words, do they have Panjabi gaalis that are totally incomprehensible to an Urdu speaker?
Misaal dae kar samjhaae’n:-)
I didn’t know about Roman Pashto. Thanks KD.
I just had an idea. Is it called Roman Urdu due to Urdu’s relationship with the Romany language of the Roma people (the gypsies of Europe)?
I have watched few gypsy movies and they have so many words that I could pick up. Over centuries their accents have changed, but their language is closely rooted in the Sub-continent (Panjab/Haryana area). Actually, I remember reading somewhere that the Indian goverment few years ago had funded a school for Romany kids in Hungary or Romania.
I have seen some friends practice the art of negativity with their
Mrs.
For example, any thing they do for fun – they pretend that it is such a horrible thing:-) Once Mrs realizes that you didn’t enjoy something, she will totally support the activity and actually feel sympathetic with you:-)
Reverse Psychology I guess:-)
@ balma on March 24th
1. I will check the referenced URL in my next session on the internet.
2. The right fikra that comes to my mind is that any thing that displeases the Mullah pleases me the most.
3. The news about the sale of booze going up during Ramzan brings to my mind an incident which you will find hard to believe.
Long time back when air travel was not so common and out of reach for many like me I was to travel to Rawalpindi from Karachi by train in a first class air conditioned coupe. It was the holy month of Ramazan and the time was couple of hours before Iftar when I boarded the train. To my amazement I found the porter carrying my luggage and helping me to settle down in the compartment was absolutely pissed. I was amused but admonished him (to please Mrs KD more than anything else) and asked him couldn’t he wait a bit longer to drink after the Iftar (obviously didn’t tell him that was what KD had planned to do). He brazenly replied sir that is something for you rich guys to do. Gharib aadmi ka kia hay. Roza tau hum roze rakhtay hee rahtay haiN. Agar kabhi kabhar mil jay tau ous din ham Eid mana latay haiN.
KD quitely slipped a tip of Rs 20/ (a big amount in those days) in his hand (without Mrs KD noticing this unusual genrosity of KD) and almost took his right head to his forehead to salute him but then let it pass realizing Mrs KD was watching KD’s warmth for this brave librated soul with great disapproval.
Wonder where those librated souls have gone and where from these suicidal maniacs come ????
@fasee sab…sir your managerial skills seem to be more mathee than your typing skills…..I am outsourcing to II ch road and zamzama from here and you cannot open a window and resource to a multinational money laundering joint nearby…..
achcha toh yeah skirt hai main samjha aaj choti ki capri pehan aaein
@ balma on March 24th
Read the article. I also didn’t know this is what the kuppi is. Fasee seems to be fond of the stuff and often talks about it. I thought by kuppie he meant hip flask or something like that.
The news that its sale goes up during Ramzan is too good to be true. It means there is still some hope of our recovery from the ongoing puritan madness. Long live kuppie.
@ balma on March 24th
Urdu ki galion maiN agar koi lazzat hay tau un galion maiN jo Delhi kay koochay walay datay thay. I had a collegue who was a sailor (naval officer) and a stoker (naval term for an engineer) and on top of that hailed from Delhi. If you heard him talking you would understand what it meant to say to swear like a sailor or to swear like a stoker or to swear like Delhi ka koocha wala.
Even then I would say if a competition was held of GaliaN between my said collegue and a thorough bread Sikh speaking thate Punjabi the Sikh will win the competition hands down.
GaliaN are part and parcel of thate Punjabi which is spoken by Sikhs. If I gave an example of it here not only will it be deleted I will be banished from KMB. Recall the Punjabi translation of an Englishman’s speech in English by a Sikh to Sikh audience you will understand what I mean.
Your theory about Urdu’s connection with Roman seems to be all wrong. I feel English alphabets are perhaps known as Roman alphabets for some other reason. Like Arabic numerals are not Arabic as such. They were not invented by Arabs as we would like to think. They were invented by Hindoos in India. The name Arabic got stuck to them because Arabs introdused them to the West.
@Balma jee….see Mrs KD don’t like him on the KMB…just like your misleading info….this article of the News seems bogus too…the martini glass is a clear kuppi(funnel) shaped….in some far eastern countries…a cup is also called a kuppi…
@ balma on March 24th
She has been hard wired by nature to understand and detect the true emotion of his. Your friends are fooling no one but themselves if they think they can fool her by reverse psychology. If the use of reverse psychology is seen to work it is only because she takes a pity on you when she sees it being used. Otherwise I assure you no kind of psychology, reverse, inverse or converse works on her.
isn’t it ironic that we are choosing roman Urdu over the Turkish Urdu….anyway…iam not sure about the roman Pushtu….roman Punjabi is very politically incorrect….for the same reason Barrister sab view’s Punjabi’s as…Easter is so near I cannot risk enraging the Romans…or the pardosan will send on Easter in place of chocolate eggs…the eggs-eggs from the last Christmas…
Fasiq: thanks for hinting on the vajah-e-tasmiyah for Kuppi. Martini glass, kuppi same thing. Otherwise, I was wondering why this name ‘kuppi’:-)
KD: I was asking for the right firqah (sect) that allows higher amount of angoor kaa sharbat during Ramazan. Your quli story is very funny. But, the guy was right.
Actually, I told my maataa jee something similar once, that Allama Balma had to suffer so much in college and had to stay hungry so often, and for so many days in a row, that he has figured out the logic behind Ramzan, and hence he is now exempted from fasting by Allah Mian :-)
KD, thank you for not repeating ThaTe Panjabi gaalis here. Meraa vazoo TooTh jaataa!
Well, I was just being creative in trying to figure out why it is called Roman Urdu (or was it called Roman Hindustani during British Raj?)
I can see PK army still requiring it, because of emails, telegrams, telexes, wireless codes etc.
Sir, when (and if) you will get married the first thing that you may try to figure out
@KD sarkar…..thankyou sir for the tips…i’ll keep them in mind….
sir is Mrs KD computer literate…and does she know if I existed…because if she is not computer literate…and don’t know that I exists than may be she hates your wasting your time…thinking that you might be chatting with some Scandinavian blond…
Look at me standing here
I’m here on my own again
Up straight in the sunshine
No need to run and hide
It’s a wonderful, wonderful life
No need to laugh and cry
It’s a wonderful, wonderful life
Roman Urdu vs. Turkish Urdu:-)
In Istambole there are several places Urdu This, Urdu that…just like our Cantt Colony, Cantt Bazar (i.e. Urdu Bazar) etc.
when we don’t develop our cultures, our languages, then we don’t even know how to type in our lanuages, we are all burgers.
Latin alphabets are also know as Roman alphabets – this is why when Urdu is written in Roman alphabets people call it Roman Urdu.
Kabirdas:
We know that only Sikhs speak thet Punjabi whereas you guys from West Punjab are civilized and speak a very nafees lackhnavi Urdu. :-)
Man, there should be a limit of inferiority complex.
I just had an idea. Is it called Roman Urdu due to Urdu’s relationship with the Romany language of the Roma people (the gypsies of Europe)?
hahahahaha…balma sahib kia kehny aapki imagination ke.
@balma jee….Allama balma jee… aap ki maata jee ko mera namashkar…!
only last week i had a day so precious….i felt like finding the magic river or nirvana….when three people,innocence,endurance and chastity, who I believe are much worse than me found me in a worse than theirs state and smiled at me….it was an unexplainable experience….yet it revigorated my resolve….and believe….I had maghaz nalli nihari and praiseth the lord.
@ wasiq.
so finaly you tasted da maghaz with teh naulli nahari…wasn tthat something…..doenst matter your colestrol shot up amny basis points or you might die a few days earlier……but so does risks while riding in a rikshaw…….so enjoy till it lasts dude
@ KD.
thanks for telling me there even exist a roman pashto….and that roman urdu was there in colonial times….as i had always thought it was the child of our SMS generation….urdu ki tang tor dali dus dus spelings nikaal ker.
i spent 8-9 yers or so in the lands of the pigs ( to quote my friends on LMB )……so i easilyu speak proper punjabi…..but lacks its accent due to my intentional efforts not to pick up the thick accent…otherwise it wud have ruined my urdu accent.
but still it has ruined it…as in karachi everyone aks me " aap punjbai hu kiya" altouhg i am not awkwardly dressed, dont have a bear belly not i scratch my shalwar in public view"…:):):)
but coming back to the point…….roman punjabi wont be posible as so many extra words have to be used to give the accurate thick accent..otherwise it can not justify or explain what they wast…and everythign wud be lost in tranlation
you wont believe that abhi mein nihari kha kay otha hee tha kay sunday kay newspaper pey nazar pardee….uss main yeah barda sara ad *wasiq ka chehlum*(mrs wasiq…iam very sorry) raat tak log aatey rahey….
is pe mujhay ik aur ikhlaq say gira huwa latifa yaad a giya….when a guy died and people started visitng at night…khair dafakaroo….will tell someother times.
@ balma on March 25th
1. Sorry for reading ‘fiquah’ as ‘fiqura’. I am not too sure what this ‘fiquah’ is called but I certianly support and subscribe to thier idealogy whole heartedly :-)
2. You will be surprised to know that KD still fasts religiously but not to please God or save himself from his wrath. He is a good fellow and all will be well Inshallah. KD fasts to please his wife and save himself from her wrath. She is not such a good fellow as He is. She simply stops supply of any kind of food during holy hours of Ramazan. Beside I get duly rewarded for my Faka Kushi by a sumptuous Iftari. On the spot punishment and reward works more effectively than the greater threats and greater promises of the furure. Wonder, why didn’t God think of that??
3. Wazoo is indeed a very delicate and fragile thing. One has to be very careful to keep it intact. I am told, darogh bar gardne ravi, that some people get their wazoo broken when listening to Mullah describing the Jannat Kay Mazay in his Friday sermon.
4. I believe Roman Urdu is still in vogue in Pak Army for whatever reason.
Sorry for inadvertently showing my Punjabipun by writing Faqua as Faka. I suppose it is rightly said: Once a Pendu always a Pendu :-)
@ wasiq on March 25th
1. Mr KD is not a computer literate and thank God for that. If she was computer literate and knew that you existied I would have been in a greater trouble than I am right now. I often tell her that on internet I write on social issues which is not such a big lie and she believes me —I think??
2. She knows how I suffered at the hand of just one brunette that I will not dare get involved with a blonde even on the internet.
3. May I know the place where you are standing and where you find life so beautiful. Sir, are you kidding yourself or kidding us ??
@ odin on March 25th
" Latin alphabets are also know as Roman alphabets – this is why when Urdu is written in Roman alphabets people call it Roman Urdu."
You are right.
" We know that only Sikhs speak thet Punjabi whereas you guys from West Punjab are civilized and speak a very nafees lackhnavi Urdu."
You are right again. However, Muslim Punjabis (as opposed to Sikh Punjabis)speak Delhi urdu by virtue of the fact that Punjab had close association with UP during Mughal period.
" Man, there should be a limit of inferiority complex."
Right again. But if you are hinting at KD then let him say:
a. He is proud of being a Pendu.
b. He laughs at himself so that he could laugh at others and highlight their follies without sounding offensive or obnoxious.
c. You have not yet understood KD or his mission and I don’t blame you for that. His wisdom will dawn on you gradually and grow on you in due course without your being aware of it.
@ odin on March 25th
" hahahahaha…balma sahib kia kehny aapki imagination ke."
Sir, hold your laughter since you may not laugh last. Imagination is more important than knowledge as Eienstein said. Einstein produced the marvel of 20th century The Theory of Relativity by virtue of his imagination. Of course he had knowledge also but then others also had the same knowledge. What others didn’t have was the imagination which Einstein had.
Balma’s lack of knowledge is a minor thing which can be overlooked or laughed at if you wish but the flight of his imagination was commendable which must be admired and not laughed at. Thus spake Kabir Das!!
@ fasee on March 25th
We all have such problems. Mine is worse than yours. I have spent most of my life among the Ahle-e-Zuban. When I try to spek Punjabis, Punjabis tell me I speak Punjabi with an Urdu accent. When I speak Urdu I get caught by Ahle-e-Zuban for not being one of them. I speak English with an Indian/Pakistani accent. I have been forbidden by my wife to speak Potohari/PahaRi language (which truly can be said to be my mother tngue) which is spoken in Murree since she feels I make fool of my self while speaking this language by mixing all the other languages and their accents into it.
Anyway when I have to declare my mother tongue in some official document I always write Urdu but while doing so I make sure no Ahle-e-Zuban is watching me or a Punjabi for that matter.
So Kabir Das problem in a nut shell is:
(In Urdu) Goyem mushkil wa na goyem mushkil
(In Punjabi) MaiN manji kithay dawaN
@ fasee on March 25th
Sir, aap tau ik ikhlaq say gira howa joke sunatay howay sharma gay ya ghabra gay loge tau aaj kal ikhlaq say giri harkat kar kay bhee na sharmatay haiN na ghabratay haiN. Come on get it out of your system.
@kabirdas
c. You have not yet understood KD or his mission and I don’t blame you for that. His wisdom will dawn on you gradually and grow on you in due course without your being aware of it.
lol…OK! But just don’t flatter yourself, just don’t flatter yourself.
Imagination is more important than knowledge as Eienstein said.
because fantasy is limited and knowledge unlimited.
Kabirdas should know that there is a huge difference between inventing a complicated physics theory, which more than often involves both the knowledge and ‘fantasy’, and knowing a simple fact. I was just pulling balma’s leg anyway.
(In Urdu) Goyem mushkil wa na goyem mushkil
It’s "goyam mushkil va gar na goyam mushkil", and yaar Kabirdas sahib this line from Ghalib is in pure Persian, not Urdu. Now you’re flattering Urdu and insulting Persian. Wesey kabirdas sahib, this Urdu saying defines your condition more accurately.
"gali ka sher na ghar ka na ghaat ka".
Now you would surely notice some minor changes in this saying. Just to make sure that I have no intention of insulting or abusing you in any way.
*because knowledge is limited and fantasy unlimited.
@KD sarkar….I am so relieved to hear this great news…that Mrs KD is not computer literate….although it is so hard to believe these day….because majority of panjabi girls and MQM boys&girls are computer literate in this town….
no i am not kidding….parosans ney guard rifle wala rakh liya hai….
@ odin on March 25th
"lol…OK! But just don’t flatter yourself, just don’t flatter yourself."
Sir, in actual fact I was praying when I said one day Kabir Das’ wisdom will dawn on you gradually and grow on you in due course. I think the misunderstanding arose because of my use of word ‘will’ instead of ‘may’ in this sentence for which I am to blame. If it still smacks of flattery, though flattery is not my forte, then perhaps I tried to flatter you by considering you worthy of Kabir Das’ wisdom who lived some 250 years ago. I am sure you would know who Kabir Das was and what he stood for. I am only his deciple.
" Kabirdas should know that there is a huge difference between inventing a complicated physics theory …. I was just pulling balma’s leg anyway."
Agree. However, let me add that The Special Theory of Relativity is not one such theory. It is a very simple theory to understand which you don’t have to have an awful lot of knowledge. You do need a fair amount of imagination because what it says is counter intuitional (spelling??).
I am sure you were pulling Balma’s leg but sounded a bit supercilious to me.
"goyam mushkil va gar na goyam mushkil"
Thanks. I stand corrected.
"gali ka sher na ghar ka na ghaat ka".
What has gali ka sher got to do with ghat. If to be polite I were to amend the actual saying: ‘Dhobi ka kuta na ghar ka na ghat ka’ I would have just said: Dhobi na ghar ka na ghat ka. Why bring sher into it and that too gali wala:-)
Anyway Kabir Das was indeed na ghar ka na ghat ka but he certainly was poori dunia ka.
@ wasiq on March 25th
Sir, Mrs KD didn’t feel the need to become computer literate because she had a computer literate, full time and over time at her instant command, working for her. The females mentioned by you may not have been so lucky to have someone like KD at their disposal.
No problem Odin.
But, any idea on the Romany people of Europe (gypsies)?
@balma
I don’t know much about Romas (also known as Sintis or Gypsies) of Europe but you are right about their Indian roots.
Most of the Romas live in South-East Europe, unemployment ratio and crime among them is very high.
They were always looked down, discriminated and hunted , especially in Bulgaria and Romania (it is believed that alone the Nazis killed some 300,000 to 500,000 Romas during the 2nd world war).
In some countries their social status was hardly better than that of those ‘shudras’ in India. One Turk calls another Turk gypsy (Roma) to humiliate him, just as calling someone Bengali in Pakistan is considered derogatory.
The EU has taken some steps to uplift their social, political and financial status but their overall condition is still very bad.
@kabirdas
My apologise Sir, I think its me who misunderstood your post.
KD Sahib,
I meant firqa’a – as in firqavaaraanah fasaadaat…..not fiqha – as in fiqha-e-hanafi…… but, in this context (angoor kaa sharbat in Ramzan) either one is OK.
Odin: I didn’t know this Turkish curse word ….do they actually use the word ‘roma’ or some another word to refer to the gypises?
@ wasiq
" because majority of panjabi girls and MQM boys&girls are computer literate in this town…."
Sir, what do you exactly mean by ‘MQM boys and girls’. I expect you will answer this question for me and not by pass it.
@balma
I forgot the exact word they use in Turkish but I know very well that they are discriminated in Turkey although unlike Europeans most of the Turks have brown complexion, just like Romas.
@kabirdas
I’ve heard of Kabir but don’t know much about him. Care to enlighten us?
@ balma and odin
Dictionary definition of Roma reads as follows:
A member of a people with dark skin and hair who speak Romany and who traditionally live by seasonal work and fortunetelling; they are believed to have originated in northern India but now are living on all continents (but mostly in Europe, North Africa, and North America)
@ balma and odin
Seems the Europeans did not exactly love their neighbours (which they profess as an article of their faith)as the following verse shows:
The only man that e’er I knew
Who didn’t make me almost spew
Was Fuseli: he was both Turk and Jew.
And so, dear Christian friends, how do you do?
@ odin
1. He was a humantarian. He believed in the brotherhood of Muslims and Hindoos in India.
2. His name was a mix of Arabic (Kabir) and Das ( Hindi). No body knew whether he was Hindoo or Muslim.
3. When he died Muslims wanted to bury him as a Muslim and Hindoos as a Hindoo. I believe ultimately Hindoos won and he was buried as a Hindoo.
4. He is famous for his Dohas in which he laments about the contradictions of life.
One of his famous doha reads as follows:
Rangi ko narangi kahaiN
Kharay doodh ko khoya
Chalti ko gaRi kahiN
Yay dekh Kabira roia
For more details request google for Kabir Das
@KD sarkar…..what do you exactly mean by ‘MQM boys and girls’. I expect you will answer this question for me and not by pass it.
no sir why would I by-pass such a simple query…..by MQM boys and girls i meant the same party line definition…."workers,supporters and sympathizers…."
Kabir Das Sahib,
I didn’t know that Hindus bury their dead:-)
As a kid, I was fascinated by their marghaTs. I visited one near Gutter baghicha in Karachi few times. Maataa jee say choup kar. Aik dafa’a choTay bhai nay chughli khaae ( I refused to let him join my friend and me on our trip to the marghaT). Oos din maataa jee kee chappal thee, aur balma’s koolhaas and I stil remember the line vividly….jaisay kal kee baat ho: bachhay qabristaan aur marghaT akailay nahi’n jaataay! Oh, balmaa kay kaan bhee maRoRay jaa rahay thay:-)
Meray saalaay dost kee bhee bohut piTaai huee thee oos din. My chugli khore brother stopped at my friend’s house on his way back to home:-)
@ wasiq
" …."workers,supporters and sympathizers…."
Meaning so called Urdu speaking or Mohajirs ? Yes or no ???
@ balma
On first thought, being a Pakistani, I am tempted to say that it was a typo on my part. While typing ‘buried’ I hit the wrong key ‘n’ for ‘i’:-) But then on second thought I reckon I should admit I made a mistake in the flow of the things.
But why didn’t you tell your Maataa jee that you didn’t go alone to the Marghat which was a fact:-) You went with your friend. You don’t have a legal mind like KD.
And then I am sure your MaaTaa jee wouldn’t have minded so much your going to a Quabristan a place of ‘Nake-roohs’ as opposed to a Marghat a place of ‘Budroohs’:-)
@ balma
Please read ‘i’ for ‘n’ and not ‘n’ for ‘i’.
@kabirdas
You are right again. However, Muslim Punjabis (as opposed to Sikh Punjabis)speak Delhi urdu by virtue of the fact that Punjab had close association with UP during Mughal period.
Persian had always been the official language during Muslim rule. Even during Sikh’s rule the official language of Punjab was Persian.
When the British annexed Punjab they had decided to use Urdu as Punjab’s official language to get rid of Persian cultural and lingual influence over Punjab and to bring it closer to the rest of British India. Although many other British officials wanted Punjabi to be used as official language just as Bengali was in Bengal.
It is on record that Urdu was as foreign to Punjabis in those day as say Bengali. Only few people in Lahore could speak Urdu whereas in the rest of Punjab this language was virtually non-exitent. They even had to bring officials from UP because in Punab the British could not find enough people who could read and write in Urdu.
@kabirdas
a. He is proud of being a Pendu.
I never call anybody Pendu or Akhrot of Sindhi Maroo, although I have to accept there are tons of Urdu speaking who are a victim of their own arrogance and ignorance.
‘i’ for ‘n’?
Aik nuktay nay khudaa say judaa kar diyaa!
KD, you do have a legal mind:-)
May be you should work with Aitezaz Hussain!
@ odin
" It is on record that Urdu was as foreign to Punjabis in those day as say Bengali."
I didn’t know that. You may not believe me but I always thought Punjabi language was perhaps a dialect or rather a distorted form of Urdu. I remember earlier on also you had mentioned that Punjabi was a much older language than Urdu. Thanks for leting me know all this.
By the way when I started to speak as a child I was in Shahjahanpour and
Urdu was the first language that I spoke and then continued to speak all my life. Wonder then why I did not get my Quaf and Kaaf right. Perhaps because my parents didn’t pronounce Quaf and Kaaf right.
It just now ocurred to me that this must be the reason. My own kids who were born and brought up in Karachi and never spoke a word of Punjabi outside or inside the house don’t pronounce Quaf and Kaaf correctly.
Shows this is something you pick up from your parents at home than learn it at School. Interesting.
So it may be correct to say,in a way that, once a Pendu always a Pendu :-)
KD,
I doubt if many people in Shahjahanpur had correct sheen-qaaf, it being a small town. btw, I have heard Shahjahanpur people are known for their gaalis. Any stories from yaad-e-maazi?
@ odin
"I never call anybody Pendu or Akhrot of Sindhi Maroo"
You wouldn’t being a well educated person as I can make out from some of your comments. Neither do I. As a matter of fact I used to object to people calling Urdu speaking people of Pakistan as Hindoustani even though they did not use this term in a derogatory sense as such. Right or wrong I somehow like the term Mohajir for them though most of them are technically no more Mohajirs.
By the way in Punjab I have seen many Punjabis calling some other Punjabi a Pendu if they feel the other Punjabi is errrrr well I don’t know how to put it—–let us say if they feel the other Punjabi IS bit of a Pendu :-)
Sounds like a pot calling a kettle black :-)
By the way is it ‘Sindhi Maroo’ or ‘Sindhi Manoo’. I thought the word was ‘Manoo’ and also thought that it was perhaps a Hindi word meaning a ‘man’ or a ‘person’. What do you think ?
It is so nice sometime to talk to a WELL educated person like you and balma. Note the stress on the word ‘well’. Next to a WELL educatd person I prefer to talk to an uneducated person because talking to him I find rather interesting. Talking to a educated person who is not well educated is always a pain for me.
@ balma
"‘i’ for ‘n’?"
Yes a ‘ nukta’ makes a lot of difference.
Recently a friend of mine named, Zahir Shah, had to go through so much trouble in reconciliation of his name as shown in his ID card with his actual name which he wrote in his application for passport. His ID card had his name written in Urdu without a ‘nukta’ over ‘toay’ which made his name as Tahir Shah instead of Zahir Shah. Because of this confusion he didn’t get his passport on time to attend a wedding in Englnd.
When Mrs Zahir Shah told her tailor who was preparing her dress for the wedding the reason for their not going to England any more the tailor master recited a hilarious ‘shair’ describing what difference a nukta can make. Unfortunately I can’t recall this shair right now.
However Zahir Shah now appreciates the importance of a ‘nukta’ more than anybody else. So much so that he has now also become extremely careful in dotting his ‘is’ and crossing his ‘ts’ :-)
This also reminds me of a line which Bulhay Shah (Punjabi soofi poet) repeats after every four lines of one of his poem. This line goes as follows:
Aik nuktay tay gal mukdi ay, Aik nuktay tay gal mukdi ay
Sometime when I think of this line I want to use it as a proof that Bulhay Shah had great insight of Quantum Mechanics. I want to do this like Mulla is trying to prove that all science is there in Quran.
@ balma
" May be you should work with Aitezaz Hussain!"
May be we make a good team. He practices law and I often think about the philosphy of law and whether it is in harmony with the laws of nature or not. And thank God it is not otherwise our civilisation would have been cahotic. I wouldn’t say more on this subject and you should thank me and not God for that:-)
@ balma
" I doubt if many people in Shahjahanpur had correct sheen-qaaf, it being a small town."
Sir pray, what has the size of a town got to do with correct pronunciation of the language spoken by its residents ? They were Urdu spaeking (Ahl-e-Zuban) weren’t they though from a different stock ie Afghan or Pathan.
I have many memories of Shahjahanpour but was too young to have known their competence at galis. However, I have a vivd memory of my once using a gali and getting severly punished by my father for it. I had called my younger sister a ‘gadhi’ (female donkey):-)
@KD sarkar……Meaning so called Urdu speaking or Mohajirs ? Yes or no ???
I do hereby solemnly swear ….geeta’s lil sister is a little taller than Margret….
what’s going on KD…do you have any doubts about the MQM…not being urdu speaking…anymore….or have you heard any MQM girl speaking english in an Australian accent….? lol!
@ wasiq
Sir, soryy to put you to so much trouble for answering such simple questions. Your answers to my questions have now helped me to understand your earlier statement better which reads as follows:
" majority of panjabi girls and MQM boys&girls are computer literate in this town…."
Now in the light of your statement will it be correct to assume:
a. Majority of boys of other communities living in Karachi are not computer literate.
b. Majority of boys and girls who are what we generally call Mohajirs or Urdu speaking but who are not supporters of MQM are not computer literate.
Sir, now I don’t have all that much difficulty in accepting proposition ‘a’ above but find proposition ‘b’ above rather illogical to accept. Would you care to explain how an Urdu speaking boy or girl is more likely to become computer literate just by becoming a supporter of MQM.
While you are at it will you also let me know what do the acronyms MQM stand for? Is it Mohajir or Mothadda Quomi Movement?
Please let me inform you in advance that I have nothing against MQM in its either form though I would prefer it as a Quomi movement led by middle class educated people of Pakistan irrespective of their ethnicity.