Illegal Matric exam centre raided by vigilance team
According to latest news report (also here) a vigilance team raided MATRIC exam center which was illegal. Its (not) amazing how easily a center was setup, teacher stationed, papers reached and no one checked. If the school was not in approved list for exam (as board official said on TV) how come 30+ students reached there to appear in paper? Now the board will come up with all the stupid explanations we are sure like it always happens but this story should well clear as to where our education system stands and where our future is heading. People at the helm of affairs are least bothered as their kids are either in private schools or abroad. While on one hand we have individual brilliance, collectively our state of affairs is pathetic. Instead of focusing gov schools/colleges previous gov wasted all resources into a useless excercise know as HEC and current one is a nightmare which has no vision to start with. Unless health and education are the priorities more bad news await us. At the end of the end . . . One more story to sadden us. . .
I was saddened too to read this post but was also amused to read the referenced news report which says at the end:
"When the school was raided, the teachers ran away through back door of the building and later some armed people reached the school due to which the vigilance team also escaped through back door."
When I read this report I remembered only few days back there was a news report on one of the TV channels that a school was raided by Taliban in some place like Bajur or Waziristan where ‘Naqual’ was going on freely by the students with the help of teachers. Taliban took strict action to have the ‘Naqual’ stopped forthwith.
Let this also be a food for our thought beside which way we are heading.
????
aalso mention that later the vigilance team was raided by armed men :D
have a look at theajmals.com/blog/2009/03/%d8%aa%d8%b9%d9%84%db%8c%d9%85%db%8c-%d8%aa%d8%b1%d9%82%db%8c-%d8%b9%d8%b1%d9%88%d8%ac-%d9%be%d8%b1/
____________
www. dufferistan.com
@KD
Acually there is a simple and very basic reason behind the people who ran out of the backdoor . The reason is "Light nahi thi bhi bohot garmee horee thi aghar bahir nahi jatay tu bayhoosh hoo ajatay" So. KESC is to blamed .
@MB
"……previous gov wasted all resources into a useless exercise know as HEC"….
I think you said that just because you have to discredit any thing and every thing done by Musharraf’s govt. For your information, HEC is the first ever in the history of Higher Education System of Pakistan, designed & developed to promote vibrant & thriving academic environment within Pakistani universities & bring the local research & development efforts to international level.
The thing that pisses me most is, people (like yourself) go beyond reason and say stupid things without knowing the facts, just because they have personal bias, likes & dislikes and they feel its their eternal duty to spread the ignorance. What is happening in our overall education system specially the basic primary & secondary school system, without a doubt, it’s a very sorry state….but denying & discrediting any sincere & positive effort done by real professionals (yes Dr. Ata & his team) is really sad. We should be grateful to these guys who has done really tremendous job by developing HEC.
@ human01
hamara bi plan hai..hamara gadha gari wala hai na…us ko hum farari driver institue me bhejay ga advance training wastay…..per koi hum ko bola…seth is ko tu motor cycle chalani nai ata….hum bola…sab bawkas…tum taraki ke rah me rukawat hai……dakyanosi log.
Dr ata bi yehi kerta us ko hero bolta hum ko bewakoof
It is a moment of shame not just for the students but more for thier parents and those teachers who were helping them to solve the papers openly and when the raid was conducted it was just felt like we r watching an organized crime without any fear they were solving
most enjoyable moments were when teh teachers are hidding thier faces from camera not to be exposed on channels and escaping students climbing walls
Parents want their children to be a position holder but how this way ????????what about those children who r studing day and night for thier better results in exams these kinda incidents can make them hopeless
@ destiny.
adn what bout thsoe who pay RS 10,000 per papper for wrongly marking the ppers….??
and what bout those who pay Rs 15,000 for tutions in hi fi areas…isnt that cheating aswell…..
isnt it unfair.
when we mark the stuednets there should be on equal terms and equal grounds.
sir / madam…if two boys sit in front of me…one half noursihed, lead poisned, second hand books, no tutions, evening jobs, load shedding ridden, bus me dhakkay khata …….and on other hand…..Bonvita pe ke ready, tution equiped, well noursihed, generator lights mein prepared, A/C car me exam centre anay wala…..
are you guys joking with me……jsut cut this crap out..and let the taliban in…and qasam allah ki i will be one of those at fore front who want to dismantle this rotten system bit by bit inch by inch
Human01
Those who try to polish rotten fruits and decorate them with good packaging when the substance inside is full of smell of 12 years education (just before student reaches university) are idiots ……..and those who had HEC plan in MIND were one of those
.
@MB Obviously you are oblivious!! Again why bring HEC into this. Why shoot randomly like a mad man and talk about things that you know nothing about.
There is no question that the universities were brought back from the brink of collapse and their credibility re-established. Funding provided and research encouraged. They are doing good. Just prior to that a university students prayed to some how get out in time, which never happened. Universities needed to be fixed and they were otherwise all your degrees would have become worthless. If you wan I can give you detailed examples.
Primary and secondary education require a massive effort to attract the finest in the teaching profession. Unfortunately, according to our beloved constitution its a provincial domain and our landed gentry with the exception of Punjab is no mood to do anything about it. There were several initiatives in Karachi to deal with this bypassing the education ministry, even Shahzaad Roy’s successful experiment was encouraged and he was allowed to use a govt school. However, the situation in the interior is horrendous.
Remember in the countries (even extremely poor) where people are not focused on upheaval and non issues, individual communities devote their energies in improving the lot of the schools were their kids spend most of their time. Whereas, in our country the community leaders use school buildings as Autaaq’s and the popular trend now is to use them to test explosives. Not only that, the perpetrators of such acts are being portrayed as heroes and all sorts of justifications provided. Perhaps thats the solution, blowing govt school will indeed fix them Na rahe gaa baans na bajay gee bansooree, no bamboo no flute!
Why not bring HEC into this?
Cosmetics dont make you beautiful they just hide ugliness for a while and HEC was a cosmetic initiative. If they were really serious about some change they would start from school and not UNIVERSITIES. Thats COMMON SENSE.
@ fasee
" isnt it unfair."
I don’t think so. Let us take the opinion of our ex CJ Dogar who is more qualified to answer this question than any body else :-)
@ MB and Kaami
I think, in a nut shell, you two are discussing whether it is better to start from the bottom or from the top. To me starting from the bottom seems more logical. But then there are other factors which need to be taken into consideration also like amount of funds and time available to rectify the situation on emergency basis.
I don’t really know which will be the better approach.
If it was a case of eliminating the corruption from the country I would have said categorically to start from the top.
@ MB,
So you are saying forget about higher education, fix the basic schooling first & during that time period (12 years) when the kids from the good basic schooling will get to university, let the universities run as they were……dude, looking at the prior situation, there wont be any university left if you let them be what they were…the only PhD’s we’ll be producing out of these institutions would be PhD in regional languages with dissertation on Baba Bulley Shah …(not that I have any thing against it) just making my point clear .I am not being personal here, but if you ever been associated with any higher education institution in Pakistan, you certainly would have noticed the difference. I know personally the ex-pats from abroad with highly qualified credentials in research and academia went back to Pakistan to contribute to local research and academics efforts in places like GIK, Lums, N.E.D, KU and other reputed institutions due to HEC reforms. First time ever people who have vision were working on reverse brain drain initiatives. I again re-iterate……..responsible reporting needs impartiality, state the truth….remove the veil of bias & hatred …..Only that would serve the real purpose……..
where are those ppl who are responsible for this ? are they caught is any one blamed for this ? i gues no one , Hukmaran – e – waqt and awam are responsible for this !!
Hukumaran ka bayan we r unable to control big sign of shame for education level
So spake Kabir Das:
Under the system that prevails in Pakistan most people become criminal to avoid becoming a victim.
@ KD
Our ustad taught us
A crimnal is a crimnal….rest is just lame excuses
Period
And for the record
Creating 1000 PHDs a year was a hair brain idea of thar crackpot atta ur rehman.
A stock example of putting horse before the cart.
Was a great way of proffessors for getting rich quick.
With no level of improvement in any B catagory university at all
LUMS IBA CBM r already estabilished institus with no help requird from such weirdos
@ fasee
Your Ustad must must have been the victim to have said that. May I say with due respect you may consider changing your Ustad and replacing him with KD—to go a long way in life in Pakistan:-)
@ fasee
"A stock example of putting horse before the cart."
Do you mean to suggest that he should have put the cart before the horse :-)
@kabirdas jee – Who could argue against the importance for education for all and foremost at the primary and secondary level. But, that doesnt mean that we let our existing higher education institutions rot. The institutions that have given us Faiz and Abudusalaam. Where great men like Salimuzzamaan Siddiqui devoted a lifetime and actually performed world class research.
So the moral of the story is to keep what you have and strive for what you do not. This is even more important today as our youngsters find it extremely hard to get visas to proceed to foreign universities. BTW all this focus on Higher Education was mainly due to the initiative and enterprise of one man who immediately after getting the charge turned an unwanted and neglected ministry into a vibrant one. Point to be proud is that many of Ph.D’s who got post doctorol scholarships also qualified for international programmes like the prestigious Fulbright funding, costing us nothing plus, almost all the scientists and engineers returned to serve the native land. Now its upto us, not to drop the ball and get the max out of their experience….oh I forgot …..things have changed …. we have new movements to launch and new cases to fight.
@ fasee
Once I tied a little stone with a piece of string and was pulling it along while walking. A guy looked at me for a while and then he couldn’t help coming to me and asking: Why are you pulling this piece of stone along tied to a string?? I told him : You, try to push it and see if you can do it:-)
This anecdote came to my mind when you mentioned something about the cart and horse.
@ kaame
I agree with you like always except when I disagreed with you vehemently about the long march.
However, I would like to make some observations in this regard as follows for your consideration:
1. "The institutions that have given us Faiz and Abudusalaam"
The credit for what these individulals achieved goes to them and not to the institutions where they studied in Pakistan. They were exceptions who could achieve so much despite having gone to local institution of lower or higher learning. An institution should not be judged by the performance of few exceptional individulas who pass through it. They should be judged by their out put of large number of individulas who pass through them. As such Jhang High School or Government College Lahore can’t be said to be world ranking institutions just because Dr. Salam studied there. Likewise no credit goes to DJ college for the achievement of Dr A Q Khan.
2. You may find this anecdote rather interesting. Long time back when I was heading an armed forces college I invited Dr A Q Khan as a guest speaker. After his address at lunch we talked about various things. I told him that it was sad that we have not produced many researchers except few like Saleemuzaman Siddiqui. I was surprised to see him commenting so disparagingly about the research of Salimuzaman Siddiqui. He said something like his research was no big deal which consisted of making something from the trees of ‘Neem’ and ‘Keekar’
Later I mentioned the name of Munir by mistakenly calling him Dr. Munir who was the head of Atomic Energy Commission of Pakistan. He told me in strong words not to call him a Dr. since he was just an MS. And then went on to elaborate at his weknesses and failings.
There is no doubt Dr A Q Khan is a great man. I respect him immensly but his running down his other contemporaries the way he did didn’t not go well with me.
3. After Dr Atta left his job Dr A Q Khan wrote an article in The News running down him and what he did for the higher education in Pakistan. He went to the extent to say that Dr Atta was appointed by Musharraf as Chairman of HEC because of being a ‘Dehi Wala’ like him (Mush). I was rather disappointed to hear such a thing oming from Dr A Q Khan. Shows that despite being a great scientist and engineer he is perhaps not such a great person as such. But then I think of many others like him on the world scene who reached the peak in their professions but couldn’t rid themselves of professional jealousy and ran down their contemporaries whose achievement were also very significant. Of all the people Newton was one such person with a small heart. So I over look this weakness of Dr Khan Sahab treat him as my hero for what he did for Pakistan.
4. "So the moral of the story is to keep what you have and strive for what you do not. "
Sir, what is it that we have and keep it and what is that we don’t have and should strive for ?
5. Yesterday I thought more about whether we should start from the top or from the bottom to set things right. I couldn’t come to a definite conclusion. I also wondered if better educated leaders will produce better educated people or better educated people will throw up better educated leaders. I think it is something like the question whether egg or chicken came first. I think let us not waste time on thinking about whether to start from the top or from the bottom. Let us make a start from either end. It will be better than not making a start at all.
@kabirdas
To say that institutions like Govt College did not play a part in Faiz’s grooming would not be right. He was lucky enough to get teachers like Sufi Tabassum and I quess Patras. The institutions he went to did pay a role to shape his thoughts and intellect. Personally, whatever I am today, I owe it to the institutions in my home country because I was never educated anywhere else.
As for A. Q. Khan those who know him, like yourself, know his mentality. Though he sits on a pedestal but we very well know how he got there (basically by stealing) which is alright when viewed from a nationalistic perspective. After all Americans got it from Germans, and Russians stole it from Americans and so on. However, I consider the persuit of the nuclear bomb as when one of the most draining exercise of mental intellect that this nation could have ill afford. You mentioned Dr. Munir or M.S. Munir, a visionary who in early days structured our nuclear programme in such a way that it would have done wonders for our economy. Under him we had a Nuclear Power Station and two more were in pipe line. We had nuclear technology being successfully used in Agriculture in Faisalabad and Tando Jaam Universities. And nuclear medicine being introduced in our country back in 70’s. Mr. A.Q. Khan / Bhutto nexus changed all that. In came the slogan, “Make Nuclear Bomb even if we need to eat grass”. So now we are eating grass and are less secure than before we had the bomb. Countless billions plus immeasurable brain power is being spent to keep our arsenal safe from Al-Qaeda and US/Indian/Israeli strike.
Back then if we had spend the same resources on Dr. Munir’s vision and also on our Space Programme we would have been far ahead in the race and earning billions simply by shooting satellites….Alas if wishes were horses. As for Salimuzzamaan Siddiqui, Mr. Khan cannot come even close to that great man. He was not only an international authority in his subject but an authority in Literature and other Arts plus a great personality. Now days Mr. Khan more and more talks like a glorified Jihaadee, nothing more nothing less.
In retrospect, though we can curse the right wing especially the disastrous era of Zia-Ul-Haque for the degeneration of our society but the fact remains that the left has also played its part in triggering the decline. After the 1971 debacle this nation still had a chance to break free and do wonders. Instead, what transpired was that the zealots of the left on the PPP band wagon nationalized commerce and industry thus, instantly setting back the country by atleast 25 years. We could have salvaged something from that disaster if the land reforms (as promised) were also implemented but, that never happened. To top it off Mr. Bhutto started keeping company with crack pots like Qaddafi, Kim illsung, Yasser Arafat and Shah Faisal. That was the end of it…..Then before parting he gifted us Zia.
To have a better understanding of how the political battle lines are being drawn today, I give you this article by Kaiser Bengali:
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/Dawn%20Content%20Library/dawn/news/pakistan/lawyers–struggle–another-view–il
In my view the fix required a strong leader with the right sense of direction / focus, duly supported by the people. Right now we have none, currently the right is winning on the Punjab front, but that victory comes at a cost. A cost to be beared by the people. No use talking of a top / bottom fix yet, this nation will be busy fighting its deamons for the foreseeable future.
@ kaami
Thanks for making me aware of Kaiser Bengali’s article. A friend had sent it to me about an hour back. My response to this article which I conveyed to all the recipient of this mail was as follows:
1. I have no affiliation with any political party. Without any prejudice I hate them all equally.
2. I whole heartedly supported the lawyer’s movement for rule of law as a member of civil society and not as an ex-serviceman.
3. The lawyer’s movement was not for the restoration of a Judge as such. It was a movement for the restoration of rule of law in Pakistan of which the CJ Chaudhri became a convenient and effective symbol.
4. I supported the movement on the internet using various international and national blogs.
5. I was prepared and would have participated in the dharna, with my pockets full of rocks for self defence.
6. I accepted Mush, as an unavoidable evil, when he staged his first coup.
7. I fully supported his policies after 9/11. I also fully supported his LAL Masjid operation.
8. I totally and whole heartedly disapproved of Mushi’s action in regard to CJ of Pakistan on 09 March irrespactive of his colour or creed.
9. His action of 3 Nov made me almost throw up in disgust. I started hating him like I have not hated anyone in my life; not even Zia or Mulla Fazlu for that matter.
10. It was not the cause of a PCO judge that stirred my conscience. It was the hanging question mark over the survial of Pakistan that shook me up from my slumber.
11. Once a foreigner asked me what would I do if the long march did not succeed again. I retorted without a second thought : ‘I will join the Taliban.’ For me a Pakistan under Taliban rule would have been better than a Pakistan without any rule of law.
12. The writer of this article may be a good writer and but he is no thinker. He is perhaps good at seeing and analysing the writing on the wall and ground realities. But he is unable to see what lies beyond the wall and what is buried below the surface. For that you need a thinker.
13. So I rpudiate this writer and rfute what he says in this article in regard to restoration of CJ of Pakistan and those who supported his restoration irrespective of their stance in the past.
@ kaami
I will respond to the rest of your comments tomorrow. It is now past my bed time.
Kabirdas,
Can you tell us natajrubahkaars and Durpokes the excuse/chaalaaki you use andaroon-e-khaanah while you post on multiple blogs? janaab, itnaa vaqt aazaadi kaisay miltee hae?
Kaami and KD,
We have to accept that no one is perfect. I have mentioned it here many times a story about Gandhi. Someone asked him about the lack of leaders among Indian Muslims and he replied that anytime there is a ray of light, Muslims begin to compare him with their prophet.
We have to admit that no one is angel. Neither is A.Q. Khan, nor was Dr. Salimuzzaman Siddique.
History: Do people here know that Salimuzzaman Siddiqui was a younger brother of Chaudhry Khalique-uz-Zaman?
Kami, no one owns knowledge. If someone works at IBM, later he goes to work for HP…..He will for sure use the knowledge he gained earlier in his career. So this stealing business is all nonsense.
I once ended up giving ride to Mr. Muneer A. Khan to an airport. I was a bachoo, hanging around in a hotel’s lobby after a presenation. Muneer Sahib was waiting for someone to give him ride to the airport. When his ride didn’t show up (now can you believe this?), I offered to give him ride and he accepted. idhar oodhar kee baatai’n huee’n…but no, I didn’t ask him if Pakistan kay paas bum hae?:-) or if he was a cee-eye-aye agent (as was commonly rumored in those days)? Murnaa thoRee thaa, yaar!
I found him to be a caring gentleman….he was curious about my academic performance and plans, asked me to guide his nephew and so on.
I don’t believe he had a Ph.D.
I kept his business card for decades….
No matter what tees-maar-khan A.Q. Khan is, I didn’t like his desire to put his name on every thing scientific in Pakistan!
But, again, no one is perfect.
One reason we get bogged down in personalities is that we don’t have too many great personalities. In India, probably there are thousands like Dr. Salimuzzaman….so no one will care. How about AQ Khan? Did anyone really know about Abul-Kalam until he became president (KHI rumor has it that he came to Karachi in early 50′s, didn’t get a job and went back….. I have read first few chapters of Abul-Kalam’s autobiography, but for obvious reasons there is no mention of his Karachi trip)….
I think Ata-ur-Rahman is from a family of Panjabi-Saudaagaraan-e-Dehli.
He is an educated man, and I guess independently wealthy. I don’t think Mushie boy appointed him because of Dehli connection.
Long time ago, I asked a Karachi university friend to show me around at HEJ. While going around, I ended up doing tou-tou-mae-mae with a guard (chaprasi) at a lab (You may ask, what is new!). Finally, ended up in Dr. Ata-ur-Rahman’s office (He was HEJ’s director then) with my good friend Butt Sahib (he was Panjabi, but we called him Butt Saab for fun). Butt Saab did his chiknee chapRee guftugoo and got us the ‘permission’ to go around HEJ:-)
Patah nahi’n sub loge kahaan chalay gayae!
@ balma
These days the cat is away in Karachi for couple of weeks and the mouse is free to play to his heart content. Otherwise the secret for survival in the married life is not to be fit but to become a ‘dheet’ or a ‘chikna ghaRa’. Once you become a ‘dheet’ aap ka koi kutch nahi bigaR sakta—- not even your Mrs. Got it ??
@ balma
Dr Atta’s family is a family friend of mine. He comes from some Nawab family of Delhi. His grand father Sir Abdul Rehman was a justice of supreme court of Pakistan. His father Khalil-ur- Rehaman was a successful businessman. He had monopoly of ice cream business in East Pakistan. His uncle Fazal-ur-Rehman was a school and class mate of my father in Delhi for some 6 odd years. He and my father were such close friends that they used to meet almost daily. I have never seen two friends as close to each other as they. They had an understanding that whoever died first the other will act like a gurdian to others children. My father died first and uncle Fazal did act like a guardian to us though we were all grown ups then.
When Atta decided to pursue an academic career his father was very unhappy. He wanted him to take over his business. I met Atta only a few times but he was Atti Bhai to me like to his other cousins.
I can’t say if they were Punjabi-Sodagarane-Delhi. I can perhaps find this out from one of uncle Fazals’s daughter who lives in Islamabd. Though wonder if she would know this.
I have no doubt that Dr Atta was a very competent person as will be evident from his international publications of scientific books and papers.
Despite my respect for Dr. A Q Khan I don’t give much weightage to his opinion about his peers. As explained earlier I have personally seen him running down his peers. His accusing Mush for favouring Atta because of being from Delhi was distasteful to me. I think neither Mush was that kind of person nor Dr. Atta needed any such favours from anyone.
@ balma
"Do people here know that Salimuzzaman Siddiqui was a younger brother of Chaudhry Khalique-uz-Zaman?"
No, I didn’t know that. I also didn’t know that a Chaudhri can also be a Siddiqui and vice versa. The Chaudhris that I know wouldn’t like to be known by any other name but Chaudhri :-)
@ balma
"Someone asked him about the lack of leaders among Indian Muslims and he replied that anytime there is a ray of light, Muslims begin to compare him with their prophet."
An excellent quote and true. Wonder why didn’t I think of it :-)
@ balma and kaami
" So this stealing business is all nonsense."
And bear in mind that Dr A Q Khan was not found guilty of stealing by a Dutch court. And if he did steal some documents what he achieved after that with the stolen data was not an ordinary feat. His looks like a Greek god to me.
@ balma and kaami
During our meeting Dr. A Q Khan ran down the Chairman of Atomic Energy Commission Mr Munir the one who didn’t hold a doctrate degree and was an ordinery MS. That is why he got annoyed when I referred to him as Dr Munir. He had following to say about this Mr Munir Chairman Atomic Energy Commision.
a. He was an absolutely incompetent person.
b. He failed to set up any nuclear reactor which he was supposed to do to divert the attention of the west from our nuclear programme.
c. It was because of his inability to set up nuclear reactors that the west became suspicious of our nuclear vanture.
d. He said he found him (Munir) a hindrance in his work. He didn’t want him (DR Khan) to succeed.
e. He said he complained to Benazir Bhutto about Munir when she was PM. Benazir told Dr A Q Khan to bear with Munir since her family was under his obligation for helping them when they were passing through difficult time. Dr A Q Khan suggested to Benazir to give Munir lot of money and ask him to start living in Switzerland and enjoy himself but get him out of his (Dr A Q Khan)hair.
f. I think he also blamed Munir for leaking the information about our nuclear effort to the west.
Now you guys figure out which Munir Dr A Q Khan was talking about.
By the way in this meeting he did have the courtesy to praise and thank all the presidents and PMs of Pakistan who helped him with his project like Mr. Bhutto, Gen Zia , Ishaq Khan and Benazir Bhutto. He also told me that when Benazir Bhutto came back from her first visit to America after becoming PM she told him to go slow on the enichment program because American seem to know what enrichment percentage we have achieved. Finally I bluntly asked him if we do have the device or not. I don’t think he would have told me the truth. However, he said we have the device in bits and pieces which we can be put together when we need it. I asked him how soon we will be able to put the device together. He replied: ‘Sooner than you think.’
KD, no need to ask Atta-ur-Rehman his family details. I made that comment after reading your ref to AQ Khan’s comments.
Chaudhry and Siddiqui are orthogonal names. No relationship among them. Independent of each other. Can occur in same person’s name.
Both can be found in UP and even in Bihar and Bengal, I guess.
There also used to be someone by the name of Usmani who used to run PK Atomic Energy Commission before Munir sahib.
And talking of this stealing business, most of Israeli nuclear program is stolen from US and England. In fact, Israel has the biggest spy network in the US, and this is after being treated as the 51st state of the US.
@ balma and kaami
Today in Geo’s capital talk they talked about some positive fetures of Pakistan. In this they praised Punjab Education Foundation’s work which it is doing for the improvement of education in the rural areas of Punjab. Sind government also wants to adopt their strategy and is in touch with them. Baluchistan and NWFP has not shown much interest in it yet.
Among some great people of world stature that Pakistan has produced they mentioned the names of Dr Salam and Dr Mehboob ul Huq (economist) who thought of and introduced the concept of human resource index or something like that when working for the world bank.
I will try to find out the names of the persons who have been the chairmen of PAC.
Now that they have their targets out of the way, they can dig up the good about Pakistan, previously they were not in the mood to give credit on anything. A lot of good was initiated in the past eight years and no matter how much we curse the culprit, it would be nice if for a change we did not drop the ball and continue the good work!
@ balma
" Did anyone really know about Abul-Kalam until he became president (KHI rumor has it that he came to Karachi in early 50’s, didn’t get a job and went back….. I have read first few chapters of Abul-Kalam’s autobiography, but for obvious reasons there is no mention of his Karachi trip)…."
Long time back I did read a book by Abul Kalam in which he mentioned why was he against the division of India. I am not sure if I read this book before or after he became the President of India. I think it was before.
Sir, if you believe in this rumour then you will believe anything. I never believe in a rumour about an event unless I feel it is likely to have happened. However, sometime I am wrong also.
I never believed that Pundit Nehru could have had a sexual relationship with Mrs. Mountbatten. But then I found out that not only this was true (source Khishwant Singh) but also it was true that Mountbatten was gay (through reliable English sources).
@ KD & Balma.
sir i might not know mr atta, mr qadir or mr muneer personnaly or from past or have any family connections with any of them.
am a mango pakistani, with mango thoughts…but with some basic comon sense…here is my shot at things.
1) while qadeer khan speaks low of his colleauges, wasnt his colleauges were the one who refused to admit that he was a nuclear scientst and was just a "mere metelergest"
2) we as nation indulge in personalities and forget the work done..or work suppose to be done ( here come in religious, and location biases as well)
3) while Abdul kalam was given the sensitive portfolios while being a muslim…..we are paranoid not to allow mohajirs into army, keep them away at best….same hting we did by turning away bangalis aftter there first relolts…..grounding even M.M Alam our national hero ( this thing i have heard never confirmed it but agree to it as its plausable ).
4) we fail to admit that no matter how excellent a guy is in manners or how much poetry he can deliver in gatherings…….if a cat cant catch mice, i dont give a D%$# wheter it s white cat or a black cat.
before qadeer khan, our project was a mess, and after that it was a mess, and in between all tried to create more mess….while qadeer khan delivered…..THAT what matters…all rest is crap.
if munir, samar mand cant make a rickity bom b in 20 years then they shud have atleast let others who wanted…so they were no better than our slimy politicians…..playing politics where REAL stuff is to be done
@ fasee
Before I say anythong please bear in mind that Dr A Q Khan is my hero like he is an hero of millions of other Pakistanis irrespctive their colour, cast or creed. I have personal knowledge of Dr Khan speaking low of other scientists of Pakistan and it somehow surprised me and somewhat disappointed me. The way I looked at it was that Dr Khan’s achievement was such that he stood head and shoulder above all others. He didn’t have to stoop low to criticize them the way he did. He may have had some justification to criticize Munir for which he gave a reason but to ridicule the nature of Dr Saleemu Zaman Siddiqui’s research was, I thought, uncalled for and unwarranted. He severly criticized Dr Atta recently after he retired in a news paper. However, he did not ridicule Dr Atta’s research as such. He did say he did not achieve anything as Chairman HEC but then added he had been appointed as Chairman HEC by Mush because of his being a Delhi wala. That I thought was not fair to say.
If people did say that he was no scientist and was just a metallurgist I have no knowledge of it. I also have no knowledge that Dr Khan’s thinking low of his peers was a result of their crticism of him.
The fact that Dr Khan delivered what he promised to deliver is indeed what matters the most. The rest is all academic discussion or crap as you may like to call it.
Wonder why you have brought in M M Alam and that Mohajirs don’t have a fair share in the armed forces of Pakistan into this discussion. I will not like to be drawn into this unsavory discussion particulay when I know that you are wrong on both these counts. I have first hand knowledge of the factual position in this respect.
@ KD.
sir, i would calrify that pls dont look at my love for qadeer simalar to all karachi walas coz he was urdu speaking….even if he had been a punjabi or a pathan he wud have had equal respect in me eyes.
all my life, i respected work over personalities….and i agree that Dr qadeer personality is no ieal, infact has many fallings……but we as a nation has a overall defeciency o high morals and ethics, if any whatso ever.
MM ALAm and mohajirs in army was a offshoot of me topic, that een if its not legal, but talented minorites are brushed aside SYSTEMETICALLY due to racist reasons…..while applicants rom karachi are mostly rejected or given tough time for being physically inferiro to there brethren in other parts….they lack other skills which cud have been utilised rather then being marginilised.
You being in army college would have had exposure to those who have had passed throufgh all fitlers.
its the same as a woman in office…i eman we have equal opurtunity employment….but a woman has to work twice or perforame twice to be ever considered respectably EQUAL to a incompetent colleauge….otehrwsie all her promitions would be treated as a result of late evening couch performance for boss…but when discussing no body would admit we are male chauvinist, similar is the case of mohajirs.
they are in for the grind ever since they fell out of favour from ayub khan’s army.
My best ustaad, when fasee had just joined his company…when informed his boss against the present danger fo the lobby who was working to dislodge him from his position…and the ring leader…coz i was in that meeting….but i loved my boss so much..i spilled the beans to him so he could fire the planners and save himself.
and he said…fasee..they guy who you told me is the ring leader is the best manager i have inthe company…if i fire him he would be more of a mess for me personaly and in work inefficiencies that are to be coming ahead…if he can msuter up such figures aginst me then i must desevr it dont you think….respect work not loyalty……dont know how this thing got hard coded ito me brain….i still try to wlak on the same path…….if he is a good worker and good for the company….even if i cant bear with him….i try to MANAGE it……and i cherish this thing in others aswell.
but this thing comes with guidance and grooming that all our leaders unfrtunatly lack.
Fasee,
Is your keyborad shifted to the right or left. Lots of typos!
If you don’t fix your typing soon, I will have to shift my chair to the right or left:-)
This sounds like a mullah Nasrudding joke:-)
Oh, one more thing, I don’t think M.M. Alam was a Bengali. This name has bihari-pun written all over it!
As kids, we used to be very much proud of him.
KD: I hope you are not confusing Maulana Abul-Kalam Azad with the recent president of India. The abul Kalam I was talking about is the recent president…who must have been quite young in 1947 to support or oppose the idea of Pakistan.
Apparently, he came to Karachi in early 50′s after getting a BSc from some college in India.
And, talking of AQ Khan, I have to admit that when I passed through Bhopal’s train station last year, he did come into my mind. Others who came in my mind were Khushbakht Aaliyah (every one will agree this was a better use of my mind – she is prettier than AQK), Begums of Bhopal, Ismail Merchant, Shishi Kapoor, Om Puri, and Shabana Aazmi (again, a pretty thought).
oh, before I forget, everyone on KMB must try to get hold of a recording if available of this stage play called ‘toumhari Amreeta’ if possible. The play has only two actors: Shabana Aazmi and Farooq Shaikh. I saw it live twice. First in early early 90′s and then in early 2000′s.
Back to Bhopal, I thought of Ismail Merchant, Shashi kapoor, Om Puri, and Shabana Aazmi due to their association with the movie ‘Muhafiz’ (It was released under English title "In custody") about 10 years ago. The movie was filmed in Bhopal and has beautiful views of the city.
One person I will always be sorry of not thanking in time is Ismail Merchant. I had a chance to do this in person, but got lazy and missed the opportunity. And, then he died few months later.
"Muhafiz" is about the status of Urdu langauge in India. This is the only Urdu movie made by Ismail Merchant. Rest of the movies, and most were made under Ivory Merchant banner, were in English.
@ balma
Sorry for the typos…will try to minimize them
Actually that’s the problem with multi tasking…while I am working…I never look at screen when I type, doing other work….I only see when I want to read something.
In other areas this thing is mitigated by having spell check features..but here no such thing…..sometime I gets shocked what I typed,when I get to read again afterwards….spellcheck has ruined it for me I guess….:(
Jis ki lathi . . .
http://www.jang.net/jm/4-2-2009/pic.asp?picname=06_01.gif
@ MB
" Jis ki lathi ….."
Well, that is the law of nature which we are following in Pakistan, in letter and spirit, as the supreme law of the land, in supersession of our man made laws having found them superfluous, redundent or inconvenient.
Taliban have also adopted and decided to follow this law of nature. So where or what is the difference between them and us ???
" None," that is what KD says, " nature has bound us together by this law whether they or we like it or not."
@ fasee
" I never look at screen when I type,"
Wow! I first survey the key board then take a aim at a key, hit it then look up and confirm if I have hit the bulls eye or not before proceeding with the next letter.
@ balma
You are right. I had confused Abul Kalam with Maulana Abul Kalam Azad. Sorry, my fault. Shows sometime even KD can make a mistake :-)
These days to keep himself occupy Dr Khan writes a weekly article in The News. Few weeks back he wrote about Bhopal and his early life there. He very proudly calls himself a Pathan. I believe him. In some way he still acts and behaves like them.
Actually all those living in Shahjahanpour, Kanpour and Bhopal etc with Khan written with their names were originally came from what was then Afghanistan hence the name Khan.
Balma I hope you are not Balma Khan or something like that. I suppose it will be funny if you are since you don’t seem to think very highly of them.
By the way the other day I found Auranzeb condemned three groups of people as follows: Aawal Kanboh, doyyem Afghan, soyyem bud zat Kashmiri. I had a friend from Hyderabad Daccan who I believe was a Kanboh but denied it. Today I told this to a Kashmiri friend who said yes Kashmiris did make life difficult for that Talib of his era.
KD saab,
This name khan has been so abused that during Akbar Badshah’s time there was a law that no one, and I repeat no one, not even in what is today Fata-vata, could their child ‘khan’ without a title. Of course, he also banned names like Mustufa etc.
Almost 500 years later, Balma occassionaly rants about lack of creativity of Muslims, especially in the Indo Pak. One rason for this, Balma claims, is naming every male child Muhammad.
And another stupidity of Indo-Pak is to call every one from what is now NWFP and Fata-Vata a khan or every sikh a singh.
This all points to lack of organization, and lack of education.
I thought that afghan/Kashmiri thing you are quoting is from Jahangir.
Iqbal also, I guess, had to say something about Afghans. Well, Iqbal criticized Panjabi Muslims too, but some how we don’t find that in our Urdu kee dasvee’n kitaab in Pakistan:-)
KD,
There are also lots of Panjbi Muslims in Kanpur ….also, I have heard there was an area called Panjabi Toalah(group) in Lucknow.
@ Balma & KD
if bhaiyaaz can not be khans then how come half the indians add khan to there name….apna salman khan, amir khan, sharukh khan
@ KD on April 2
sir, when you go sarcastic you really go on a rampage….:D
actually its pretty hard to drive while typing on a mobile….woh bi sargent say bacha kee…..while i am on laptop, i am on KMB when i am on lunch with burger or tea in one hand while typing with one finger….or normally i have some crap deabte aka academic debate gogin on on TV previous day running in background……i hear it in background as dont have any urge to see 60 yrs old self styled anylysts hogging the TV…..
.besides mrs fasee hates them as much as i hate 20 yrs old family soaps on star plus.
so the compromise is…i have to watch / hear them while on KMB in office.
but bottom lne is….thanks for telling me…will try my best to recheck before sending it.
@ fasee on April 3rd
" when you go sarcastic you really go on a rampage…."
Sir, you wouldn’t have called it a sarcasm had you known when KD graduated as an engineer that too from a foreign university there was no computer around. Even calculater wasn’t there. We used slide rule for our tedious calculations.
So what KD said about his typing is a fact or almost a fact or let us say not very far from the fact or wasn’t a lie or at least not a white lie like the one our politician tell. If it was a lie it did have some legs to stand on.
@ balma
The name ‘Khan’ might have been abused but I believe the people who came to India from Afghanistan and settled in Shahjahanpour, Kanpour and Bhopal etc wrote Khan with their names. Those who came from Iran wrote Bokhari and Quizilbash etc. The ones from Turkey probably wrote Mirza and Beg and Chughtai etc with their names. The ones from Arabia had Zubairy, Jaffry and Siddiqui written with their names.
And lastly, not to be forgotten, there was one loal who converted to Islam and he very proudly named himself Kabir Das and joined the rest at KMB:-)
No, the line that I mentioned in respect of three groups is by Aurangzeb. Jahangir may also have paid his compliments to Afghans. After all they must have been pains in many arse holes as their history tells.
Muslim Punjabis I thought are great piece of news (I hope barrister is not listening) wonder why Allama Iqbal didn’t write a special tarana for them:-)
Some time back I read couple of books by Khishwant Singh the writer of Last Train from Pakistan which was made into a movie also. In one of his books I forget the name he says that of all the people that he has come across in the world he found Punjabi Muslims the best. KD agrees with him whole heartedly and so must you :-)
Suggest you may read the article of Askar Patel titled ‘Carefree Punjabi, calculating Gujrati, confused Tamilian’ published in The News of Sunday, March 15. You will find it interesting. His articles appear in The News every sunday. He is a former news paper editor and lives in Bombay. He writes well. I enjoy reading his articles.
Dr A Q Khan also now writes in The News every Wedensday. His March 25 article was titled ‘The Begums of Bhopal’ and one before that he wrote about his childhood in Bhopal. You may read these articles to know about the life and history of people of Bhopal. This article will give you an idea why Dr Sahab calls himself a Pathan. I promise you he also does look and act like one.
@balma/@kabirdas:
It’s good to finally see a sane, humane and rational discussion going on KMB. Thanks for this.
This is my take on the HEC issue.
I think we need to revamp the educational system from the grass-root level (absolutely, no arguing that) but we can’t ignore the universities while doing that.
I got into college before Dr. Rehman took the HEC office and graduated a few years after that and I saw the difference he made. I was actually sad when he stepped down (or was forced to resign, whatever) and I don’t know one single graduate who felt otherwise.
I fully support Dr. Rehman for whatever he did for the state of education in Pakistan.
IdealAli,
Just wait for few minutes/days and soon you will find all kinds of bakvaas, gaali, buhtaans, etc on KMB. Just wait. I am sharpning my gaali skills these days during this lull on KMB.
KD, I do read The News etc, and did read AQK’s article. I like what he did, but I guess he got out of control in self promotion. But, I have no problem if he is trying to tell our people about science or agricultural technology. Yeah, he does get carried away some times and starts singing praises about Bhopal like it was Lucknow or something….haa haa haa:-)
Just kidding, I wish I had a chance to see Bhopal.
I forgot who mentioned this, but I guess Amir Khan added Khan to his name becuse I don’t think his father’s name has Khan in it. Shahrukh Khan I have heard is Wali Khan’s cousin’s grandson or something…and Salman Khan’s father’s name has Khan too, but who knows what the fuck is their background.
The point is not just Indian khan, the point is FATA/Vata (or in Panjabi Shata) people too….who the fuck told them that every kid born in their tribe or village is to be named khan….
I guess Muhammad Khan is the most common name among criminals in Indo Pak due to this stupidity. And, Muslims are happy that Muhammad is the most popular name in the world! Abay, gadhay kay bacho’n, Muhammad then is also the most popular name among criminals…generally speaking, lets not start a statistical behes here..KabirDas can do anything:-)
KD, here is a joke:
A newly convert Muslim was asked by his old hindu friend that what is this business with his name and he said that Oh, pehlay may ansaari thaa, fasal achhee huee hae to aaj kal siddiqui hoo’n, aur agar fasal aur achhee ho gayee to kal syed ho jaao’n gaa.
Surname is not a desi or a Muslim concept I guess. I guess 200 years ago, most Muslims in
Indo-Pak didn’t have surnames……During last 100/150 years, I guess Muslims in Panjab and Sindh adopted their tribe/cast names like cheema, jokhio, varaich, tarar, soomro etc, but for some reason UP and AP Muslims didn’t do that…not only the Urban Muslims in those areas didn’t take tribe/cast associations, even their rural bretheren didn’t adopt local tribe/cast names. Though, sometimes I think that these names siddique/syed/shaikh/quraishi were given to Muslims in UP etc based on their original casts????? But, then why didn’t it happen in Panjab. I mean how come there is no Siddiquis in Sargodha? Why all in Shahjahanpur?
blah blah blah….aur bhee ghum hai’n dunyaa may muhabat kay sivaa.
KD sahib, I agree: Panjabis are the best:-) Even my mother says that Panjabi women are very hard working! And, believe it or not, I am a maamaa’s boy!
Where is the vakeel these days?
@ Ideal ali.
acually wasiq was busy and i was banned so we apologise for our oversight.
but i assure you our drones will ensure there is enough blood on the dance floor to make us proud…:)
@ idealali
Sir, if you consider balma and kabir das as sane and rational then you must be out of your mind:-)
@ balma
1. Whatever Dr Khan says goes. Un ko saat qatal bhee moaaf hain.
2. Some close relations of Wali Khan stayed back in India. One of them was a minister there until recently. This miisters bhanja is a close friend of mine. I will find out from him Shah Rukh’s connection with Wali Khan’s family and let you know about it.
3. While under training in UK my class of 6 Pakistanis (2 East and 3 West Pakistanis) ended up having Ahmed as their surnames. You can imagine the confusion that it would have created there. I was the only one who didn’t have Ahmed as my surname and the reason for that was that Ahmed was my middle name:-)
4. Your joke is ok but remember there is a Hindi/Urdu kahawat which says:
Maya (wealth) taray teen nam; Bansu, Bansi, Bansi Ram.
(I cant recollect the actual name used in the kahawat. I have just used bansi ram to fill the blank)
5. Mohammad Khan was the most famous decoit of Pakistan hailing from Kala Bagh during the times of Ayub Khan.
6. "I mean how come there is no Siddiquis in Sargodha?"
A very good question and a food for some thought !!
7. " I agree: Panjabis are the best"
Let us see what barrister has to say about it when he comes back. I will deny having said anything like that. I still think pigs are the best:-)
8. Opinion of your mother about Punjabi female would have carried some weight if she had a Punjabi Bahu :-) Punjabi women may be hard working but I tell you Mrs KD works hardly. I often tell her she must have been a slave driver in her some previous jannam.
9. I hope barrister returns to KMB soon before it gets taken over by Punjabis lead by balma and followed by KD:-)
@ KD.
ik katal meray hisaab say bi daal dijiyee ga..saat aur ik ath hu gai biyaaj kaat ke
I asked my Pathan friend, a relation of Wali Khan, about his relations who stayed back in India. His maternal uncle Younus Khan was one of them. He was a minister of tourism or something like that in Indra Gandhi’s government. He died few years back in India. He was not sure if Shah Rukh Khan had any connection with Wali Khan’s family. He said even if he had Wali Khan’s family will probably disown him:-)
thanks KD for the investigation:-)