Protest against flogging @ press club
Hurridly organized, loosly knit but touching, the protest done today at the press club in Karachi was a thrill to attend for me. It started at about 3pm with a press conference inside the press club which funnily enough I had to talk my way into as I did not have a bonafide “journaalist” card, at one moment I even thought of telling the gate keeper I am a blaager but by the look on his face and the time on my watch neither would have been feasible.
Inside was a hotch potch of wires and suspicious looking duffel bags all of which contained cameras thank god, and a push of hot sweaty cameramen as they jostled for posiiton, funnily enough even in the middle of the press conference. i swear i think Pakistani media is the dumbest of them all as they cued, waved and screeched to each other all while arguing and pushing for place while the speaker was speaking. It was so bad tha tone of the ladies of the women’s action committee got quite pissed and told the people to please observe some sort of decorum. However the speeches were good, hard hitting and very passionate. I thought the speaker from the Pakistan medical board was pretty intense and got a due clapping at the end.
After the insane question and answer session that followed in which the media made bigger fools out of themselves by asking things like “madam kia aap samajhti hain ke ye saza sahi thi” ummm yea thats why we are all here doofus, seriously….we all trooped out to be greeted by a chorus of people shouting slogans in the favor of ummm bugti of all the people, apparently the protest had coincided with the balochistan cause as well.
So we all gathered togather and then the banners were raised and the “nara bazi” started. The numbers seemed quite decent with a lot of women from different walks of life participating as well as a lot of journalists and some tv personna’s like “George” as well. I spotted 3 blaggers aside from myself in Sabeen, Awab and Tazeen, if there were more I certainly didnt know them. After about 20 minutes of rip roaring narays by the civil society and mazdoor jihad lo and behold a truck laden with “Sunni tehreek” activists complete with giant loudspeakers and mikes appeared to stand in front fo us and sing naats on top of their voices “Sarkar ki amad” kind of stuff. They kept insisting they were with us but still managed to try to drown our voices out quite frequently, however it was heartning to see the people standing firm in front of them and raising their own protest.
All in all we might not have had the numbers seen in Islamabad today, but we still managed to register a due protest against the barbarity on display yesterday. Whether that video was 1 or 2 or 5 months old, the civil society made their displeaure felt quite vividly today sending a clear message to the government and the barbarian hordes up north that these kind of actions are not only intolerable but will deem an equal response.
Next to come is a huge protest rally organized by MQM’s womens wing for the same purpose tommorow, we must all participate and raise our voice in as many forums as we can against the march of evil into our cities, I commend all the parties involved in making these and the protests to come possible in all the cities of Pakistan, long live sanity and long live Pakistan.
MQM is the only political party that overtly criticizes Talibans and they should be applauded for this, although I am not sure whether they want to misuse it for their own purpose like chasing as much Pathans out of Karachi as possible as for mqm walas Pathan and Taliban are same same.
As far as that poor girl of Swat is concerned all my sympathies are with that poor soul. How can for adult men flog a mere 17 years old girl publicly with that brutality. I know the religious people especially the die-hard followers of the last prophet are famous for their asinine and irrational behaviour but this time these dolts have surpassed themselves in moronity.
Nevertheless i condemn that barbaric and savage incident in swat.
seems like a file photo…aaj kal toh sleeveless chal raha hai…
By the way Imran Zani and Munawwar Hassan showed the least interest on this heinous act in Swat. Simply shows the nexus. I am more that sure that there is a need that Imran Zani should announce that from now onwards his name is Taliban Khan.
92061….that’s me….
peera ho peera
meri dachi they gal wich taliyan
meri dachi they gal wich taliyan
we mein peer manwan chaliyan
Shala waleya Peera
Peera ho Peera
Peera Ho Peera
It was a wonderful weekend for the people out there on roads. Every one was happy and enjoying the "protest" which was for a ‘tragic event’. People got chance to see some beauties out there.
thanks for making my night,protesters!
Baqol Shayr:
Huway tum Dost Jis kay
Dushman Uska Asmaan Kio ho
seems like a file photo…aaj kal toh sleeveless chal raha hai…
Mian Wasiq, shayed aap ne ye tasweer ko apna Sharf-e-dedar nahi Bakhsa
http://www.deadpanthoughts.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/dsc00403.jpg
Aunty chanting Kafir had already fulfilled your wish.
Sorry Faisal that i had to post a link other then this discussion as the jamatis and PTI wala have tried to move from the Topic.
Kindly note few people try to save talibans from humilation always put MQM in every post to divert the debate.
I ask the admin to remove posts not meant for the Topic.
thankyou siddiqui sab…..I know you follow my followers very religiously..
@doctor and barrister sab…sir’s ab toh confirm ho giya na…..
Doo Jamati shehre main
Raat main ya doo phair main
Assteena dhondh tey hain
aik shamiana dhondh tey hain
I heard that GEO denied that video is belong to Sawat… any update?
MQM has its own shortcomings. MQM is a militant outfit, this party has been involved in various crimes and murders in the past, most of the followers of this party are ethnocentric and show prejudice towards non-Urdu-speakers. But in spite of all its faults and flaws this party cannot be compared with Talibans or Jamatis in anyway. If Jamatis ever take control of Karachi again they will bring their buddy Talibans with themselves and the corpses of murtids like odin will be found hanging in various parts of Karachi.
ye naam-nehad islam parast tanzeem ke gundey..you know the rest.
@mqpasta
I heard that GEO denied that video is belong to Sawat… any update?/b>
What difference does it make whether this flogging took place in Swat of Waziristan?
*ghundey
Balama, it was just a typo. I can pronounce "gheyn" accurately. :-)
Good. I am glad to see that civil society is not taking this lying down. For people like Adnan Siddiqui and all other people who defend the Taliban, I suggest they immediately move to Swat,FATA or even better Afghanistan, so as not to be tainted by sinners like the rest of us.
@ wasiq
Topic say gira; aunty ki garments me atka
@ all
This happeend today or 10 month ago, in swat or malakand
What’s the diffrence
Its like debating whether he ws wearing a azarband wali pink shalwar ya magenta caprice with lastic.
All wasting breath on pointless discussions….typical example of our society
@wasiq
Kuch bi kahoo…dat lady had the spanking of her life…:)
Suna hai…it took 5 days to remove wilts from her skin….and 10 days to remove the grin from the taliban punishers….fiesty
Never knew talibans like to be kinky….;)
@fasee sab….
Suna hai…it took 5 days to remove wilts from her skin….and 10 days to remove the grin from the taliban punishers….fiesty
sir I believe you didnot see the full version as carefully as the rest of us….it shows the victim getting up…standing…I imagined the rest on advice of Sir Odin….the victim got up…took out a KK47 or a TT from the red pants and shoot and killed everybody…then took the mobile phone(samsung)from the dead body of a militant who was filming the scene…..send it to CNNworld report…..and you know the rest….!
atka kahan….?
zindagi sey yeahi gilla hai mujhey
tu bahut deir sey milla hai mujhey
@Jahanara: Honey Moon in SWAT Valley. Kia Khyal Hay?
@Wasiq: you ruined one of the best Nazm of Gulzar :/
@MQpasta: GEO could disown anything. Even the founder Khalilur Rahman.
Reports are coming that talibans and their facilitators in Karachi, Jamat e Islami are giving death threats to Mir Shakil ur Rehman for showing Swat Video.
Mir Shakil ur Rehman have asked the government for complete security.
@Khalid90….sir I have checked all the newspapers…watching Geo continuously….washed cauldron…. kalai ka time hai kya….?
@ wasiq.
yaar ye docotor sab, mqm ke naam pe itnay jazbati kiyoon hain..kaheen in ki motor cycle ka side mirror tu nahe tor diya tha unhu na…
mujh say tu sirf ik dafa khaal hi mangi thi ( bakray ki )….meray bhaiya pun ke jazbat ko ubhara…but i politley said no..i have given it to madresaa ( in fact i had given it to kasai )…so they polietly left….no scene that i hear every day ke woh kehtay hain bakray ki khaal do ya apni khaal do kind of stuff….
pata nai..ya tu hamray area ke unit wala ziyada shareef thay ya there are jamati rumour machines going overdirve mode
@wasiq
Kia dekhna chah rahe ho bhai
http://jang.com.pk/jang/apr2009-daily/06-04-2009/main4.htm
@fasee
you are not looking at the bigger picture. Baat motor cycle kay side mirror ki nahee, kuch to hai jis ka pardadari hai. Better ask DOGTOR, he will tell kis ki pardadari hai..
يہ شريعت نہیں قبائليت ہے۔ مجھے سندھ میں خاتون پر کتے چھوڑنے والوں ، بلوچستان میں لوگوں کو انگاروں پر چلانے والوں اور سرحد میں کوڑے مارنے والوں کی ذہنيت میں کوئی فرق نہیں دکھائی دیتا سوائے اس کے کہ ان کے واردات کے طريقے اور حليۓ تھوڑے مختلف ہیں۔
امرود دراصل کیلا ہے !
وسعت اللہ خان
بی بی سی اردو ڈاٹ کام، اسلام آباد
لڑکی کو کوڑے مارنے کے واقع پر لاہور میں خواتین کا احتجاج میں شامل ایک خاتون
پاکستان کے صوبہ سندھ کے ساحلی ضلع ٹھٹہ کی تحصیل کھاروچھان کی آدھی زمین یعنی لگ بھگ چار لاکھ ایکڑ سمندر کھا گیا۔لیکن یہ سب اچانک اور ایک دن میں نہیں ہوا۔بیس برس میں ہوا ہے۔اس لئے یہ روز کی خبری بھیک پر گذارہ کرنے والے کسی چینل یا اخبار کی سرخی نہیں بنتی۔
اگر میں یہ کہوں کہ جس طرح ٹھٹھہ کے چار لاکھ ایکڑ سمندر پی گیا اسی طرح پاکستان کے لگ بھگ پچاس فیصد علاقے پر سے ریاستی اختیار مسلح گروہ اور مقامی مافیا کے ہاتھوں غائب ہوچکا ہے تو کیا آپ یقین کریں گے۔شائید نہ کریں کیونکہ یہ کام چوبیس گھنٹے میں نہیں بلکہ پچھلے تیس سال سے ہورھا ہے۔اور پچھلے آٹھ سال میں اس میں بہت تیزی آ گئی ہے۔ہوسکتا ہے کہ یہ راز حکمرانوں کو معلوم ہو لیکن حکمران ایسی کسی بھی بات کو تسلیم کرنے والی آخری مخلوق ہوتے ہیں۔
عباسی خلیفہ مستعصم باللہ نے اسوقت تک تاتاریوں کی یلغار کو تسلیم نہیں کیا جب تک ہلاکو خان بغداد میں داخل نہیں ہوگیا۔
مغل تاجدار محمد شاہ اسوقت تک ہنوز دلی دور است کہتا رھا جب تک نادر شاہ درانی کے سپاہی گرد آلود جوتوں سمیت اسکے محل میں نہیں گھس گئے۔
بہادر شاہ ظفر تب تک خود کو شہنشاہِ ہند سمجھتا رہا جب تک نکلسن نے اسکے بیٹوں کے کٹے ہوئے سر طشت میں رکھ کر پیش نہیں کردئیے۔
ایوب خان اور پھر یحیی خان کو آخری دن تک یہ گمان رہا کہ یہ سات کروڑ بنگالی نہیں بلکہ مٹھی بھر شرپسند ہیں۔
برھان الدین ربانی تب تک کابل کے قصرِ صدارت سے مزارِ شریف نہیں گیا جب تک نعرے لگاتے کلاشنکوف لہراتے طالبان کی ڈاٹسنیں کابل کے اندر نہ دوڑنے لگیں۔
مظاہرے میں شامل چند اور خواتین
اور ملا عمر آخری وقت تک اس یقین سے سرشار رہا کہ جیسے ہی امریکی فوجی زمین پر اتریں گے ان کا افغانی تکہ بنا دیا جائے گا۔
اس سب کے باوجود پچھلے ایک ہزار برس میں مستعصم باللہ سے آصف زرداری تک یہ بیان کبھی نہیں بدلا کہ حکومت اور اسکے ادارے ہرقسم کے اندرونی و بیرونی خطرات کا مقابلہ کرنے کے پوری طرح اہل اور چوکس ہیں۔
اب اس بات پر بھی تحقیق ہونی چاہیے کہ حکمرانوں میں اس شتر مرغ کے جینز کب داخل ہوتے ہیں جو ریت میں سر دبا کر سمجھتا ہے کہ خطرہ ٹل گیا۔
یہ بات سمجھنی کیوں مشکل ہوتی ہے کہ نظریے کو صرف اسلحے سے نہیں اور اسلحے کی زبان سمجھنے والوں کو صرف نظریے سے ختم نہیں کیا جاسکتا۔
چینی عسکری فلسفی سن زو کے بقول دشمن کی کمزوریوں سے زیادہ اگر اپنی کمزوریوں کا بھی ادراک ہو تو آدھی جنگ آپ بغیر لڑے جیت سکتے ہیں۔اور شکست کا پہلا زینہ یہ سوچ ہوتی ہے کہ ہم کبھی غلط نہیں ہوسکتے۔اور جب آپ اس سوچ کی چاردیواری سے باہر نہیں نکلتے تو ایک دن اسی کے نیچے دب جاتے ہیں۔
جب آپ یہ تسلیم ہی نہیں کریں گے کہ آپ کی فوج اور پولیس دہشت گردی سے نمٹنے کے لئے تربیت یافتہ نہیں ہے تو آپ اسے تربیت کیسے دیں گے۔
جب آپ ہوا میں ہاتھ پاؤں اور اندھیرے میں تیر چلانے اور سائے کے تعاقب کو ریاستی پالیسی کے طور پر پیش کریں گے تو کتنے لوگ آنکھ بند کرکے آمنا و صدقنا کہیں گے۔
جب آپ اپنے مدِ مقابل نظریے کی طاقت اور اسکے پھلنے پھولنے کی وجوہات ہی نہیں سمجھ پائیں گے تو اس نظریے کی مزاحمت کے خواہاں لوگوں کو کیسے منظم کریں گے۔
کیا یہ کہنے سے خودکش حملے رک جائیں گے کہ یہ کسی مسلمان کا کام نہیں ہوسکتا۔
تو کیا گلے کاٹنے والے آپ کی یہ نصیحت سن کر شرمندہ ہوجائیں گے کہ یہ بربریت اور غیر انسانی فعل ہے۔
اگر عورت کو کوڑے مارنے والا وڈیو کلپ جعلی ثابت ہوجائے تو کیا عورتوں کی عزت و آبرو اور جان کو تحفظ مل جائے گا۔
اورمسلح گروہ کیا رحمان ملک کی یہ دھمکی سن کر بھاگ جائیں گے کہ حکومت ان سے آہنی ہاتھ سے نمٹے گی۔
آپ کب تک ریاست کے باغی ایک گروہ سے اسکی شرائط پر سمجھوتہ کریں گے اور دوسرے باغی گروہ کی بات سنے بغیر ہی اسےمارتے رہیں گے۔
آپ کب تک سولہ کروڑ لوگوں کو یہ سمجھاتے رہیں گے کہ یہ جو امرود دکھائی دے رہا ہے اصل میں یہ کیلا ہے۔
دوست کو بھیجیں پرِنٹ کریں
یہ نہ تو شریعت ہے نہ روایت یہ سرا سر جہالت ہے۔شریعت اس لیے نہیں کہ شریعت میں سزا کا تذکرہ انتہائی مخصوص شرائط کے ساتھ ہے اور شریعت کبھی بھی انسانیت کی تذلیل کی اجاذت نہیں دیتی۔روایت اس لیے نہیں کہ وہ لوگ جو اپنی بہنوں بیٹیوں پر کسی غیر محرم کی نظر بھی نہیں پڑنے دیتے وہ اس طرح ایک لڑکی کو سر عام رسوا نہیں کر سکتے۔
@wasiq
you are my hero of the day. stay blessed..
oh odin, I didn’t 3even tnotice g vs gh here. It is such a crazy news.
I bet someone will claim that this never happened and this is a seyhouni saazish.
Are people writing on this topic idiots?
@khalid90….sir woh kalai toh ho gaie hai per I just found out that Zafran khatam hai….ab toh subah ki flight sey hee aa sakti hai…fresh from the hill tops….thora time aur nahein mil sakta…?
@balma jee….Are people writing on this topic idiots?
no comment!
@shoaib sab…..wasiq
you are my hero of the day. stay blessed..
thankyou sir I kept a very low profile all day to stay blessed as a hero of the day….in few minutes it will be back again to one of the 364 zero’s….
Imran Zani wants shariat, the same sort which Taliban are doing. I will call him Taliban Khan
http://tinyurl.com/d53nhk
I stayed away from this post as it was bound to become MQM bashing exercise in the presence of Doctor and company.
But this really makes me very angry and I have to speak out as I paste my comments from ISB metblogs:
Three Female Education Workers Killed in Mansehra
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/nwfp/three-female-education-workers-killed-in-mansehra–szh
Hats of these brave ladies, who despite the situation went there to persuade the people to send their kids to school and paid the ultimate price. And for whom, this ungrateful nation. This makes me sick.
They are our real heroes and not the crack pots that lead us. Just yesterday I heard Mr. Munawar Hasan the new Ameer of JI going after NGO’s and condemning their activities. Does anybody have a statistic about how many NGO workers (Pakistani and non-Pakistani) have lost their lives in Pakistan and Afghanistan. What was their crime? trying to educate, vaccinate and deliver food? And still people of the stature of Munawar Hassan continue to provoke.
And this is how The News covered this:
Four NGO workers gunned down in Mansehra
Updated at: 2110 PST, Monday, April 06, 2009
MANSEHRA: Four people were killed when a vehicle they were riding came under attack by unknown assailants here on Monday.
According to sources, the deceased were workers of a local non-government organization (NGO) known as Firing Rice International (FRI).
And thats all. This is an excellent example of how to report and cover up at the same time. "The News" fails to mention that the deceased were women and why were they there in the first place.
Rascals!
Al Qaeda + Taliban = JAMAT E ISLAMI
People of Karachi and Pakistan see your real enemy, Talibans who are involved in attacks on shias, barailvis and innocent people of this country , Talibans who are killing People inside Mosques, Imam Bargahs, Mazars and didn’t even pardon the Eid Milad un Nabi (PBUH) Ceremony are facilitated by Non Other then Jamat e Islami,
These Talibans are beheading Pakistani Soldiers, Beheading and dividing the bodies of people into peaces, The Greatest Fans of Talibans who are enemy of Pakistan , Islam and People of Pakistan are Non other then JAMAT E ISLAMI.
Khaled Nine Zero, yeh Imam BaaRaa, KHI may Imam Bargah kaisay ho gayaa?
Second, who is stopping Pakistani fauj kay javaans to fight instead of getting beheaded? Is Jamat-e-Islami telling PK faujs not to fight them? And, if so, then why are the faujis listening to fucking jamaatis….
Poori aqum aapay say baahir hae!
And, doctor, next time don’t cut and paste…you write quite well yourself. Unless, now you are trying to distinguish yourself from the trinity (Teeth Mistress, Abvab or something, and jaali doctor)….
In this day and age, when everyone’s chaDDi’s color can be tracked via muvaasilati sayaaraah (dumb ass burgers, don’t worry what this means), why can’t PK high command send F16s and beat crap out of these dim wits baitullah Mehsud and Mulla Fazlu of Swat?
Something is fishy here.
And, what kind of name for a person is baitullah? Is this a sane person to call himself House of God?
oh no…yeah badaam kon kya giya….puri theli rakhi thi ab iss season main fresh kahan sey….aur yeah zafran bhi abhi tak nahein pohnchi….mian apni toh jaan sey pehley naak gaie….
@khalid90….sir just a little bit more…please…!
@ balma.
sir his name whether baitulah or as funny as pol pot would have had equally disatrous effects on us….but it wud have been more ironic if he wud have had a name babloo or somethin
@ wasiq.
10 kilo ki deeg banaay ke kiya letay hain aap…..chiken aur chawal ki ratio 2:1 rakhni hai..izzat ka sawal hai…deg ka security deposit kitna lain gay
@doctor.
lagta hai is ki motor cycle ka side miror hi nai is ki petrol tanki pe scratches bhi mari hoon gi.
gosh…fasee in nostalgic again…jub meri phatphati ki new new seat per raat ko bili apnay panjay marti thi tu meray liye woh dunya ki sab sya bari terrorist hoti thi
@fasee sab….sab jo aap ki marzi dey deyna….yeah toh dil ka mamla hai dil se…bachchay ga toh koi bhi nahein….
@ wasiq.
dil ka mamala hota tu ziayda tention na leta….per jaib ka mamla bara nazuk hota hai….fasee dil me sorakh tu bardasth ker sakta hai per jaib ka sorakh ziyada khaternak hota hai
@Doctor
Sharam kar yar, discussion taliban ka hai, aur tum haath dho kay MQM kay peechay paray ho. Seriously dude, do u get paid for this? If you do then you are doing a bang up job, I recommend a bonus for you?
I say if it werent for MQM we would be run over by these over zealous religious fanatics. Thank you MQM.
KhaledNineZero,
NExt time you post one of these URLs, please write a line or a comment on the subject matter. I don’t have time to click on every URL posted by everyone. Thanks.
@ Docter & others I have had to remove many of your posts as they are completely off topic if you would like to post your own views for the world to see about MQM start your own blog please, it takes a lot to become an author here and i for one will not stand anyone using my posts to kick start their own agenda. Further digression from the topic on this post will see the comments section for this post closed.
This post is about the girl Chand bibi who was flogged and the civilian protest that took place afterwords at the press club not about MQM or any other political party. For once why don’t all of you stand up for something together? The militants are no ones friends…
@faisal k sab…..with all due respect sir…I think this would be a very bad move on your part or the KMB….we are all feed up of Doctors mental aggression but I believe this wild horse will eventually break and be our pride and joy….no doubt the readers of KMB are growing every day…and the number of commenters is shrinking….I propose that we give extra time to Doctor and let him mend his ways….it may not be easy for you and all the bloggers….sooner or later…you wont get any complaints against him because everybody will say" O the doctor never mind him he is like that…!"
about the topic….I am not a womanizer…all my life I have loved and respected women….I love my mother,my grand mother,my sisters my aunts,my neighbor’s ,my class mates,female friend and I am equally loved by them….that make it even more difficult for me to see such an inhumane behavior against an innocent girl child….I whole heartedly condemn this atrocious act….and compliment all those including you faisal k sab for standing up and doing your bit .Thankyou!
May God bless you and give you the strength to do post like these in future as well.
I am really confused by Adnan Siddiqui’s following comment:
****
@Jahanara: Honey Moon in SWAT Valley. Kia Khyal Hay?
****
Can you explain what you meant, Adnan?
Is this a question? Taunt (tanz)? Proposal? Harrassment? what?
Are you asking her out? Are you proposing her? Aren’t you supposed to be engaged? Is this the response you could come up with to a comment by a woman?
Shame on Sir Syed University for giving you a college degree. May be they made you a good programmer, but not a good human being. I guess I only have PK education system to blame here.
We must improve our education system.
On such a tragic news, on such a tragic fate of our country’s women, this is all what our educated have to say: Honeymoon in Swat?
@ kaami
It is just for your info that The News reported the said incident on the front page of its April 7 issue prominently with the heading as follows:
3 FEMALE NGO OFFICIALS, DRIVER SHOT DEAD IN MANSEHRA
So the allegation of ‘cover up’ may not be justified. I have found The News very vocal in its protests against such things.
@ kaami
"Just yesterday I heard Mr. Munawar Hasan the new Ameer of JI going after NGO’s and condemning their activities."
I am glad you will now be able to differentiate between the likes of JI Chief and Chief Justice of Pakistan.
@ Faisal K.
i understand the pain what a guy goes thru when he sees his thingy get hijacked and turn into a nonsense…
as for teh girl spanking thingy….i dont feel a thing higher than the pain i feel for every other tom dick and harry that is flogged in our police stations.
and i personnaly feel this spanking thing has got too much out of hand…and blown out of proportion.
i suggest you start a voting section embeded within your post to vote wheter the people condemn it or not…..i knwo i will be the sole nay sayer…but i will still caste the vote and sit on a minority opposition bench…rather than say whats fashioable yet worng
@ balma
" why are the faujis listening to fucking jamaatis…."
Sir, they are not listening to fucking jamaatis. A large number of them at all levels are fucking jamaatis themselves, brought in the army by our Amir ul Momneen Shaheed Zia ul Huq. I have first hand experience and knowledge of it. Take my word for it without asking for details.
@ fasee
"as for teh girl spanking thingy….i dont feel a thing higher than the pain i feel for every other tom dick and harry that is flogged in our police stations."
Sir, perhaps your multitasking doesn’t give you enough time to think about such things bit deeply. For Christ sake sir think about it and you will find that they both may appear as two faces of the same coin but the face under discussion is much much more ugly than the other. Both acts are condemnable; one much more than the other. That is the thing. One act is condemened by all and sundry the other has the sanction of a large cross section of the self proclaimed bearded gatekeepers of the paradise.
You better start thinking of replacing your Ustad with KD.
@ KD.
"bout teh multitasking"
although fasee loves his multi tasking habbit, but he admit it leaves little time to react to a certain thing….or shud i say , over react to a thing….fasee usualy reads his paper while eating breakfast and rest with the lunch and rest with teh dinner, while playing wid his child and fighting with mrs fasee….so i know i am on shaky grounds here….:)
but basic premise of fasee’s argument is, that NO, the floggin is never condemned by the society with such furour, otherwsie it wud have been abolished by now…..what prisoners show in open courts, to magestrates, and even our hounourable judges cant do NOTHING bout……to my all membery i cant recall a pkiastni case where some one wud have been fired or suspended for flogging a priosener…….
what is more sik is…that flogging is treated as a basic part of our traditional INTEROGATION system…and is accepted by all in our taht-ur-shaoor or something…….
so under these rpemise, when fasee saw the picture of the spanking thingy…while a shashi tukra in his mouth and gulping it down with oveltine and run to his phatphati so he wudnt be too late for his office routine…..waht fasee muttered out wsa…." SO WHATS NEW "
as for the ustaad…well sir, i never mind learning from you…infact i do take pointers here and there without even informing ya…;)…long live pakistani freedom on copy rights piracy
@ fasee
Sir, I am most impressed with your multitasking ability and speed of thinking and typing. I mean it. I wish I could keep pace with you. Give me some time to rest and think more about it and come back with a suitable answer.
Take care. And by the way if you do feel the urge for multitasking while driving you may consider thinking a bit than typing. Thats what KD normally does.
@ KD.
sir itala;an araz hai, ke mrs fasee realy really hate fasee;s multitasking, sepcially while driving his phatphati.
she says, aap drive kertay ketrtay khud say batain ker raahy hotay hain…( although fasee dont rememebr it )…she says i say lots of thigns that are inmy mind but irrelevant to the current topic underdiscussions….
i send sms while i am at any traffic signal, or i have a callign list to the persons i have to call, which i deffer till i get stuck in the trafic jam and have nothign else better to do…( i call mrs fasee while trafic jams as well )…
now a dasy, when i call any body…they say…haan bhai aur suna..kiya trafic jam main phansa huwa hai phir, jo phone ker liya…:D:D:D
but comeing back to your last question somedays ago….yes this multitasking steals the joy out of things that is there when we do it at our own leasuirly pace……
@kabirdas as I have access only to the internet edition of the News… hence my comments…I have no problem to take them back and apologize, thanks for correcting me
However, I did hear Mr. Ansar Abbassi, I believe he belongs to Jang / News (correct me if I am wrong) on Aalim Online, coming to the defence of the perpetrators and expressing his dismay over people calling the punishment as barbaric, after all the hudoods are set by God. He sure looks and feel like a Jamaatee and so are quite a few of his colleagues. These are the same journalists who were led the campaign for the “Rule of Law”. My friend kabirdas you have very exciting company.
In the same programme another Aalim termed it as an “Aalmee Sazish” and said that he was told that videos far more heinous and revolting have arrived showing scenes of public beheadings and slaughter. The motive – “To malign Taliban”. So they are trying to pre-empt and block the path for any more releases. The way the Geo stalwarts have sprung into action, I guess there will be no more.
So there you go, the fact remains that persons have been publicly slaughtered like goats in Swat for the alleged crime of spying for none another than our very own Army.
@kabirdas now to your JI chief and CJ reference. JI had positioned itself behind CJ as well as Nawaz Sharif. It will be interesting to note how things unfold in the next few months. The other day the JI Sarhad chief was implying that talibanization can only be dealt with if we remove the un-islamic clauses from our constitution and islamize it. So they are holding the Taliban gun on our temple. Lets see how the civil society and the judiciary will counter this.
@ kami
"How to counter the talibinization"
but sending a vukala movement towards the swat area, to restor the swat thrown out judges.
it will solve two problems with one shot…hehehe
oohh gaaawdd i just really need to be mr zardari’s advisor
@ kaami
1. No need to apologize. I just thought it appropriate to bring it to your notice.
2. Mr. Ansar Abbasi does indeed belong to Jang/News group. He does look like a Jamati. I know for a fact that his wife wears Hijab. I got to know about it by his own account of an incident at his child’s school which he wrote about in The News. In this incident according to him his child was discriminated against because of his father’s beared and his mother’s (Ansar Abbasi’s wife) Hijab.
Now I am going to tell you something which is going to shock you. After reading about this incident I wrote a letter to the editor (which I seldom do) condemning the discrimination by the school authorities against some one on account of his beard or her Hijab although personally I don’t like both these things. For some reason this letter nor any other letter on this subject got published for whatever reason. Now I will not go into the details of my reasoning for thinking so. I will just request you to THINK about what I did and let me know if in your view I did the right thing or not.
It may also be pertinent to let you know about my views about the issue of missing persons. I have the feelings that most of the missing persons were indeed terrorists and were to be dealt with an iron hand. But sir KD doesn’t think that dealing with iron hand means dealing without due process of law. No, I am absolutely against that. If they have taken law in their own hands it doesn’t mean the state should also do the same. The are called the terrorists for what they are doing. If state starts doing the same kind of thing then by the same token it becomes a terrorist state. Here again I will request you and urge you to give this matter a little more thought and let me know if you find KD’s thinking warped.
To be continued
Continued (NB I am posting these comments in this manner for fear of losing them because of power outage. Yesterday I lost my detaied comments on the swat incident at IMB just about when I had completed them which I found most frustrating)
3. If Ansar Abbasi and his associates did say on Aalim on line what you say they said then I repudiate them all. And if I find that God has indeed ordained such Hadds and their implementation in this manner then I may also question the wisdom of God.
4. Indeed Ansar Abbasi played a very important role in the campaign for restoration of CJ Chaudhri. For that I really admire him. Overall I think highly of his investigative reporting. If his religious views are like the views of Taliban then you will find me at cross sword with him and his associates on that.
5. You may not belive it but I find the company of people who are prepared to sit down with me to discuss religion and to listen to me what I have to say in this regard rather exciting. I like to speak my mind on this subject and release my pent up feelings. But what about you sir. How do you feel being in the company of this strange creature who goes by the name of Kabir Das and talks of things like nobody else does. Do you find his company thought provoking, depressing, annoying or just confusing.
To be continued
6. I don’t know all that much about politics to able to comment ably about what JI and PML-N are upto etc. Lately I have started thinking about such matters as well. If I come to some concrete coclusion after I have thought about such matters I may vanture to offer my comments. As far as any further issue concerning CJ Chaudhri or judiciary is concerned I will take my cue from my Guru Aitazaz Ahsan and no one else.
7. As far as the statement of JI NWFP Chief is concerned he is entitled to hold his opinion like I should be entitled to hold mine. In my view to permenantly cure ourselves of Talibanization we should remove all the socalled Islamic clauses from the constitution. However, it may be too late for us to do that. The seeds of Talibanization have already been sown in the objective resolution of our constitution the fruits of which we are reaping now. What Zia did can be undone but to undo the obective resolution is not a simple matter. We will have to live with that containing any further damage that it may cause. In any case if whatever is done is done strictly as per law and constitution of 1973 it is ok by Kabir Das.
The End ( thank WAPDA for continuous supply of power)
@ fasee
"by sending a vukala movement towards the swat area,…… it will solve two problems with one shot…hehehe"
It is funny. Grant you that.
@ KD.
"It is funny. Grant you that."
sir vuklaa shud thank heavens for THEM not having any evil minds like mine in there folds…..i heard that was the prime motive for the crusades aswell.
"If state starts doing the same kind of thing then by the same token it becomes a terrorist state."
sir my ustaad and experiences have told me…..some times, you have to become a monster to kill a monster.
"The End ( thank WAPDA for continuous supply of power)"
sir its about time you invest in a decent UPS, generator, wind mill or a biomass to energy converter….coz this loadsheding is here to stay…..and as usatd says….it becomes worse before it gets any better…….and it is not going to get any better soon….:)
@ fasee
And sir my ustad Friedrich Nietzsche taught me:
"Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one."
About UPS etc let me share a secret with you. I live almost next door to Zardari house. When Zardari was living here there were no power outages in this sub sector and I regularly prayed for his long life. When he shifted to Presidency the power outages bacame common in this sector as well. I started the market search for a UPS. In the mean time Faryal became the chairperson of the PPP women wing and made Zardari house her HQ. The power outages once again disappeared. Now I am living happily and praying for the long life of Faryal.
By the way the minister for water and power also lives close by in the same sector. In between when Zardari moved out and Faryal moved in the bugger only kept the power of his street on all the time and didn’t care for the rest of the sector.
Now please don’t throw this crap about rule of law at me. I did and still do support the rule of law thing but then I also know that some men are born more equal than others. You may blame God for that and not the men who are born more equal.
Beside KD doesn’t mind a little bit of corruption as long as he is part of it :-)
NB: The power outage that I mentioned earler was a minor breakdown only though it washed out all my long condemnation of the flogging of the girl in Swat. I did not rewrite it thinking probobaly it had the blessing of the old guy up in the heaven and this was his way of warning me:-)
@ KD
"it washed out all my long condemnation of the flogging of the girl in Swat"
precicsly….what fasee wanted to explain…..look at the pit right in front before you see the ditch a mile away.
"Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one."
i guess your and my ustaad are two side sof the same coin after all…the yin yang thingy……just a matter of prespective.
a optimistic see the world as the best place that is…and a pessimistic belives it to be true…:):)
as for the havez and have nots thingy….once fasee was taught by a ustaad, when fasee was in a heated debate over islamic leaglity over current form of "intrest"…is it jaiz or not……and he intervened and said…..saab…if i have 10 lakh in account then its jaiz…and if not then its najaiz…coz i dont have it…so i wont let other have it either…..and fasee was baffeled….coz he was the unparh pathan driver of my friend….and he was scolded by my freid to be so jahil and he didnt had the manners to intervene and etc etc….but i still remeber his startight forward interpretion of the haves and have nots..
@kabirdas I love you, its just that Pakistan is all so screwed up now.
Nobody should be discriminated viz a viz their appearance, you did right. I also enoy the company of my bearded friends, its my opportunity to vent out some serious religion bashing, but then again I am thankful for their pateince.
If you are a journalist for the sake of truth then its ok and I respect you, but if you are a journalist with an agenda, then its totally different, you are just another O’ Rielly factor.
@fsee right on dude. You need not necessarily be a Ph. D to know philosophy. Your driver was 100% correct. Its more of a question for haves and have nots, making it even more difficult for have nots to get credit.
The so called Islamic banking is a world wide racket whereby, various Ulema find themselves on the board of directors of finacial institutions earning millions by classifying products as Islamic i.e giving Arabic Names to already established products.
******* Kami writes…
The so called Islamic banking is a world wide racket whereby, various Ulema find themselves on the board of directors of finacial institutions earning millions by classifying products as Islamic i.e giving Arabic Names to already established products.
**
Allama Balma fatwa daitay hai’n keh yeh bilkul sahee hae….
In fact, the fucking Mullahs of Paksitan will be surprised to find out that US govt bans certain practices of Islamic banks in the US because it thinks of them as usurious (exploitative)….
what!
Sometimes I think of the US as an Islamic country!
Most of the instruments of financial dealings that are promoted as Islamic banking already exist.
But, here is where alama Balma changes track….
If under the garb of Islamic banking, millions of our poors, bhooka nangaas, muflis-baehaals (I know fucking burgers, you have lost alama Balma by now) can be encouraged to build businesses and build assets (real estate), all the power to Islamic Banking…..In other words, if interest or profit can be musharaf-ba-Islam (again fucking burgers, ignore Urdu….you are too uneducated), to hellp build our economy, then I will sip koon-kaa-ghoont (fucking Karachi burgers, this is a muhaavarh), and let it continue.
@ balma.
sir..soryy to stop your station wagon right on its tracks….but sir, yeh adna insaan kuch araz kerna chahta hai….jaan ki amaan paon tu araz karoon, ( amman nai bi detay tu bhi bolay ga…bcoz apnay ko adat hai ..)…:D:D:D:D
my vote is with kami on this….islamic banking is another HUGE scam to fleece this over emotional malka-e-jazbat awaam…..a qom who wears its religion on its sleeves and not in his heart.
trust me, in my company islamic bankers just cant enter..i hate them more than i hate conventional bankers…..( a jamatiya inside of me ).
i say to me boss…sir sharab peeni hu tu jhonny walker ki bottele me hi piyee, coca cola ki bottele me daal ke pena sya maza ulta kharab hota hai.
so my friend…thats islamic banking in a nutshell…
@ kami….
sir 100 % agreed, you dont have to be a phd, but still…when i am surrounded by hi fi professionals like myself who love to baffel others with our tech jargons…..i did get baffeld bcoz he had the grasp of the reality …plus so simplfiedly he explained what we all were trying to explain with our lectures….
Agreed with Fasee
@ kaami
" I also enoy the company of my bearded friends."
You may be surprised to know that I don’t have any bearded friend. I seldom get to discuss religion with the bearded lot. Discussing religion with them in a meningful way is waste of time. They start with the premise that whatever is given in the good book must first be taken as a given and a truth. If it says it is for all time to come or it is the best book ever written then it must be accepted so before starting any discussion. I tell them you can’t discuss your religion with someone who is a non-believer accepting these as facts. You should have such arguments which indeed show the superiority of ones religion even to a follower of a different religion. This understandably they can’t do since every body thinks that his religion is the best religion.They overlook the fact that most of us follow the religion in which we are born and not the one which found best after some critical analysis of them all.
My religious discussion normally takes place with my unbearded and supposedly educated friends. You will be surprised to know in most religious matters how ignorant and supertitious they are. They just can’t divorce themselves from what has been drummed into their ears at a very young age by the local Mulla appointed by their parents, as their religious duty, to teach them Quran. I am more pained to see their beliefs than the beliefs of the bearded lot.
" but if you are a journalist with an agenda, then its totally different,"
Agree.
@ balma
" Sometimes I think of the US as an Islamic country!"
Dr Khaki got his early education in his family run Maddrassa. His family was into the business of running Madrassas. He broke away with family traditions. Shaved off his beard and did MA in Islamic jurisprudence and Phd in Economics. He is a lawyer and on the pannel of advisers to Islamic Idealogy Council. He is the one who had challanged the Maddrassa degrees of our Mulla MNAs and MPAs as equivalent of regular degrees in the Supreme Court. I often get to meet him and discuss religion with him. Couple of years back when he returned from a study tour of America he told me that he found: ‘75% of American practices can be said to be Islamic and 25% Un-Islamic whereas in Pakistan it is other way round.’
I agree with him on the basis of my own experience of living in America and England for some years.
I agree with both your comments about Islamic banking.
@ wkhang
Sir, so please to know that you agree with Fasee when he says: "sharab peeni hu tu jhonny walker ki bottele me hi piyee, coca cola ki bottele me daal ke pena sya maza ulta kharab hota hai."
Welcome to the club. So that makes three of us who prefer to drink straight from Johnie Walker’s bottle.
@Balma
I agree, as long as it’s a matter of choice and some economic activity is generated, then I guess its ok.
Oversees, particularly in North America some die hard souls wait in line for a year or two to get expensive Sharia Compliant Mortgage, but then again it’s a matter of choice.
Also I am glad that you mentioned “usury” .Most of our momin brothers cant make a distinction between “usury” and “interest”.
@fsee
Wisdom does not require a degree. Those of us who can turn to a wise man / woman for advice can count themselves as lucky. Hi Tech Guru’s can be logical but not necessarily wise.
@kabirdas – Take a look at this article by Mr. Abbassi. Notice the repetition of word NGO. Isn’t he in-sync with Munawar Hassan. However, I must say a tactfully written piece of work.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=21502
On the other hand we have this too:
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/kamran-shafi-march-of-the-taliban
So at last MQM is showing the real face, whatever Bahi says its going to be it, with all due respect to all MQM people do you all have your own thughts or not ?
Why MQM is opposing that peace deal or Islamic Law ?
Scared of Islamic Law that karachi might have one soon ?
Mr. Das,
Well Sir, I am not agreed to drink or that comment but the main idea behind that comment, you know me very well so why you tease me : ).
is it 0:38 am or 1:38 am….?
@wkhang – It has always been its stand….its nothing new. And , I am happy that they have taken this stance where others have chickened out.
And I salute Ayaz Ameer, one of the few voices of dissent raised during the session, he spoke bravely, against the wishes of his party and asked the right questions:
http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=21505
@wkhang for more than 1400 years Muslims could not agree on definition of shariat, may I ask what majic has happened now? Its the same old Khilafat Rackett.
I don’t know about Kaami, but you wkhang should be scared of Taliban Law for your mother or sister or wife (if someone is dumb enough to marry you). Or may be you are such an idiot that you will be holding their (your relatives’) legs while ugly bearded men beat her/them with canes.
Why don’t you stick to LMB or IMB or better – some blog for Kabul or Qandhar?
And, don’t know about anyone else, here is my fatvaa:
Fatvaa-e-Balmavi: chapter 7, Shiq 86:-)
Fuck Taliban Law.
EoF (end of Fatvaa)
I don’t even want Islamic Law. Are you guys kidding?
Those who want it, should be given free ride – one way – to Afghanistan.
Regards,
Allama Balma
Taliban Generation in Karachi A mUst Watch Video
http://blip.tv/file/1982452/
@khalid90… sir.aap ney bookmark kiya hoga..han na…?
tum sey toh khair ghardee bhar ki mulaqaatt rahe
Mein toh sadioun ki rafaqat ko bhola deyta houn….
Ps:vermount mera hai…toh tu waisey hee ley ley….han agar bandar road aur nishter road end to end mil jai toh kya baat….
@ Kami,
Dude its your choice you choose whatever you like to, I do not have any problem with that, yeah you are right from 1400 years people still not agreed on Shariat Law, hey thats okay, let them have fun with there own thoughts or laws.
Sir, let me assure you that one day you will or our kids will see that every where there will be only one LAW and thats called Islamic Law, Quranic Law.
Opposing Allah or Mohammad PBUH is just SHIRK and Allah will never forgive it.
I am talking here in general that one should not have fun here to write some think which comes in the Shirk circle.
Lets be positive and wait for peace in the area.
Peace
@ wasiq
" is it 0:38 am or 1:38 am….?"
I am not sure about the time myself but the century seems to be like 630 AD.
@ balma
Sir, the fatva that you have given now was given by KD some 15 years ago but nobody paid attention to him.
KD is also on record to have said on KMB few years back that IF THIS WAS ISLAM then he was ashamed to be a Muslim.
I don’t visit LMB. However, I assure you the IMB will not be a comfortable place for any Talib to exist as long as KD is there.
@ wkhang
" Opposing Allah or Mohammad PBUH is just SHIRK and Allah will never forgive it."
Will you please let me know your precise official definition of SHIRK??
KD saab,
when are you buying burqua for the sinf-e-naazuk at home?
This is just a joke, but the the whole thing is getting out of control in Pakistan.
@ balma
This very morning after reading the news paper told wife to get ready to buy a burqua for herself if she wants to live. She said she would rather leave Pakistan and seek asylum in the US. I told her she may not get the asylum in America. She said in that case she would seek asylum in some non Muslim country in Africa. She then asked me what was I going to do. I told her I will stay back and fight the sons of the gun. She said:
" I feel like taking up arms and fighting them also but don’t think I WILL BE ABLE TO KILL ANY ONE NO MATTER HOW MUCH I HATE THEM.
IT THEN OCCURED TO ME THAT FOR BEING CRUEL YOU HAVE TO BE RELIGIOUS FIRST AND FOREMOST.
Balma, we can only win this war if we own it up as our own war. If we don’t own it up as our war then consider it lost.
@ Khaled90
Thanks for the video. I think they deserve to be killed by drone attacks and sent to heaven as soon as possible so that others can live on this earth in peace.
I saw the video and thought keh aray, kitnee moaTee ho gayee hae!
Anyway, it is interesting to see our kids moving back and forth like yahoodees while reading religeous materials.
The whole system is screwed up. Too much population. Too many kids. Kids who are a result of cousin marriages. Mental retardness – slowly over generations – is one consequence. Too many kids with names Muhammad and khan….shows lack of creativity and abundance of stupidity. Too much corrpution and lack of regular schools.
At least kids learn to read and write in these madrassahs…even if they are not learning maths or science, but this Talibanization has to be cured.
PK military is involved in this nonsense. Otherwise, if Shirmeen knows where these bastards are, how come the military doesn’t!
Miltiary can easily go, capture these fitnah parvars who are running these schools and send them to jail for few years….
And, please guys, stop giving money or qurbani kee khaals to thse madrassahs….you are supporting talibaans by doing this.
These madrassahs can not survive for a day if people in the neighbood don’t contribute financially.
oh, one more thing…at least they were playing cricket, not learning how to shoot.
@Balma & @KD and myself. Don’t know why we are raising such a fuss when the headlines say:
Pakistan can be ‘role model’ for Muslim world: Qureshi
Cheer up guys and thanks for taking care of wkhang.
@BALMA – When are you publishing your Majmooa-tul-Fatawaa? I would be the first one to buy and mould my life accordingly.
@kabirdas – I was the one that always believed that we need to disarm our society for sanity to prevail. Now I guess its too late for that. Nobody has the will and motivation to even think on those lines. How I am glad that Muttahida didn’t give up its teeth and I will advise others to grow them as soon as possible.
Today Asma Jahangir, Ayaz Amir and Altaf Hussain had a conversation, it’s an odd threesome, whoever thought that liberals / HR activists, despite PPP being in power will have to look over it and seek MQM’s support. I have no qualms with PML, it was never an issue’s driven party but ANP! it has just folded. When Wali Khan was alive ANP was not in power but it was a force and now it’s the other way round.
I just thought that may be ANP and Taliban were working on some kind of a joint grand plan…..Pathan supremacy kind of thing? I mean, mae bhee insaan hoo’n…..zehen tou saazishi hae!….so, is it possible, ANP idiots think that by riding on Taleban shoulder than can capture whole Pakistan?
Varnah, Red Shirts aur Green Turbans kaa keyaa taauluq?
P.S. I will be publishing my deevaan of fataava’s soon!
@ balma
1. " The whole system is screwed up."
Couldn’t agree with you more.
2. " if Shirmeen knows where these bastards are, how come the military doesn’t!"
A very good and valid question. But then has the military been given the task to clean these Madrassas of Talibans ??
3. " These madrassahs can not survive for a day if people in the neighbood don’t contribute financially."
A large number of these Madrassas are receiving funds from Saudi Arabia to propogate Wahabism or whatever. You have got to see some of these madrassas in NWFP and the Pajeros their owners are running around in to believe it.
However, some of these madrassas are also getting zakat and other donations from affluent incountry and outcountry Pakistani businessmen who also want to book a berth for themselves in the heaven.
3. " at least they were playing cricket, not learning how to shoot."
They learn how to shoot once they graduate from these madrassas all fired up to fight the kafirs and move to professional training schools situated in NWFP for learning such trades as shooting, bomb making, demolition of buildings and the art of suicide bombing etc etc.
@ kaami
1. "Don’t know why we are raising such a fuss "
Agree. When we are one of the Jahils we should be proud of being Abu Jahil with nuclear arsnel to blow up the civilisation.
Sorry to end here because of the fast approaching dark hour. See you tomorrow.
@ KD on 15th
Thanks for pointing out the defination of SHIRK, as I was also smiling at his use of the term for * prophet….silly people
As for killing, u don’t need to be always religious….just need some strong motivation…or delinking from socity and humantiy…any way you can achive
@ balma
Like your fatwas and sugar free style which matches my offline way of talking….when iam alone
But sir, pls realize….talabans are bad because they are on an extreme…arnt we the other extreme aswell….the anti thesis…the anti taliban…….
As a star trek fan…..when we collide matter with antia-matter….similarly what if we collide taliban and anti taliban….or better…if we cross breed them…what will we get…..like we bred humans and cylons in batale star galactica…???
@ Mr. Das and to who want to hear and read the TRUTH only,
If you (with all due respect) have guts then read it all,
Here is the SHIRK defination:
Praise be to Allaah.
One of the most important obligations is to know the meaning of shirk, its seriousness and its different types, so that our Tawheed (belief in the Oneness of Allaah) and our Islam may be complete, and our faith may be sound. We say – And Allaah is the Source of strength and true guidance comes from Him:
Know – may Allaah guide you – that the word shirk in Arabic means taking a partner, i.e., regarding someone as the partner of another. It is said [in Arabic]: ashraka baynahuma (he joined them together) when he regarded them as two of equal status; or ashraka fi amrihi ghayrahu (he introduced another into his affair) when he made two people involved in it.
In terms of sharee’ah or Islamic terminology, shirk means ascribing a partner or rival to Allaah in Lordship (ruboobiyyah), worship or in His names and attributes.
A rival is a peer or counterpart. Hence Allaah forbids setting up rivals with Him and he condemns those who take them (rivals) as gods instead of or besides Allaah in many verses of the Qur’aan. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Then do not set up rivals unto Allaah (in worship) while you know (that He Alone has the right to be worshipped)”
[al-Baqarah 2:222]
“And they set up rivals to Allaah, to mislead (men) from His path! Say: ‘Enjoy (your brief life)! But certainly, your destination is the (Hell) Fire!’”
[Ibraaheem 14:30]
In the hadeeth it is narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever dies claiming that Allaah has a rival, will enter Hell.”
Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4497; Muslim, 92.
The types of shirk:
The texts of the Qur’aan and Sunnah indicate that shirk and the ascribing of rivals to Allaah sometimes puts a person beyond the pale of Islam and sometimes does not. Hence the scholars divided shirk into two types which they call shirk akbar (major shirk) and shirk asghar (minor shirk). There follows a brief description of each type:
1 – Major shirk
This means ascribing to someone other than Allaah something that belongs only to Allaah, such as Lordship (ruboobiyyah), divinity (uloohiyyah) and the divine names and attributes (al-asma’ wa’l-sifaat).
This kind of shirk may sometimes be outward, such as the shirk of those who worship idols and graves, or the dead or absent.
Or it may sometimes be hidden, such as those who put their trust in other gods besides Allaah, or the shirk and kufr of the hypocrites. For even though their (hypocrites’) shirk puts them beyond the pale of Islam and means that they will abide forever in Hell, it is a hidden shirk, because they make an outward display of Islam and conceal their kufr and shirk, so they are inwardly mushriks but not outwardly.
Shirk may sometimes take the form of beliefs:
Such as the belief that there is someone else who creates, gives life and death, reigns or controls the affairs of the universe along with Allaah.
Or the belief that there is someone else who must be obeyed absolutely besides Allaah, so they follow him in regarding as permissible or forbidden whatever he wants, even if that goes against the religion of the Messengers.
Or they may associate others with Allaah in love and veneration, by loving a created being as they love Allaah. This is the kind of shirk that Allaah does not forgive, and it is the shirk of which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And of mankind are some who take (for worship) others besides Allaah as rivals (to Allaah). They love them as they love Allaah”
[al-Baqarah 2:165]
Or the belief that there are those who know the Unseen as well as Allaah. This is very common among some of the deviant sects such as the Raafidis (Shi’ah), extreme Sufis, and Baatinis (esoteric sects) in general. The Raafidis believe that their imams have knowledge of the unseen, and the Baatinis and Sufis believe similar things about their awliya’ (“saints”), and so on. It is also shirk to believe that there is someone who bestows mercy in a manner that is befitting only for Allaah, so he shows mercy as Allaah does and forgives sins and overlooks the bad deeds of his worshippers.
Shirk may sometimes take the form of words:
Such as those who make du’aa’ or pray to someone other than Allaah, or seek his help or seek refuge with him with regard to matters over which no one has control except Allaah, whether the person called upon is a Prophet, a wali (“saint”), an angel or a jinn, or some other created being. This is a kind of major shirk which puts one beyond the pale of Islam.
Or such as those who make fun of religion or who liken Allaah to His creation, or say that there is another creator, provider or controller besides Allaah. All of these are major shirk and a grave sin that is not forgiven.
Shirk may sometimes take the form of actions:
Such as one who sacrifices, prays or prostrates to something other than Allaah, or who promulgates laws to replace the rulings of Allaah and makes that the law to which people are obliged to refer for judgement; or one who supports the kaafirs and helps them against the believers, and other acts that go against the basic meaning of faith and put the one who does them beyond the pale of Islam. We ask Allaah to keep us safe and sound.
2 – Minor shirk
This includes everything that may lead to major shirk, or which is described in the texts as being shirk, but does not reach the extent of being major shirk.
This is usually of two types:
1 – Being emotionally attached to some means which have no basis and for which Allaah has not given permission, such as hanging up “hands”, turquoise beads etc on the grounds that they offer protection or that they ward off the evil eye. But Allaah has not made them the means of such protection, either according to sharee’ah or according to the laws of the universe.
[Translator’s note: the “hands” referred to are objects made of metal, pottery etc, usually blue or turquoise in colour, that some people hang up to ward off the evil eye, according to their mistaken belief]
2 – Venerating some people or things in a way that does not go so far as ascribing lordship to them, such as swearing by something other than Allaah, or saying, “Were it not for Allaah and So and so,” etc.
The scholars have stipulated guidelines to distinguish major shirk from minor shirk when shirk is mentioned in the texts of sharee’ah. These guidelines include the following:
(i) – When the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) states clearly that this action is minor shirk, such as in al-Musnad (27742) where it is narrated that Mahmoud ibn Labeed said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The thing that I fear most for you is minor shirk.” They said: “O Messenger of Allaah, what is minor shirk?” He said: “Showing off, for Allaah will say on the Day when people are recompensed for their actions: ‘Go to those for whom you were showing off with your deeds in the world, and see what reward you find with them.’” Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in al-Silsilah al-Saheehah, 951.
(ii) – When the word shirk is used in the texts of the Qur’aan and Sunnah in the indefinite form [without the definite article al-]. This usually refers to minor shirk, and there are many examples of this, such as when the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Incantations, amulets and love spells are shirk.”
Narrated by Abu Dawood, 3883; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in al-Silsilah al-Saheehah, 331.
What is meant by shirk here is minor shirk, not major shirk.
Amulets are things that are hung on children such as turquoise beads and the like, which they claim will protect them from the evil eye.
Love spells are something that they do, claiming that it will make a woman beloved to her husband and a man beloved to his wife.
(iii) – If the Sahaabah understood from the texts of sharee’ah that what was meant by shirk here was minor shirk, not major. Undoubtedly the understanding of the Sahaabah carries weight, because they are the most knowledgeable of the people concerning the religion of Allaah, and the most knowledgeable as to the intent of the Lawgiver. For example, Abu Dawood (3910) narrated from Ibn Mas’ood (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Tiyarah (superstitious belief in omens) is shirk, tiyarah is shirk,” three times, and there is no one among us but (will have some of that) but Allaah will rid him of it by means of tawakkul (putting his trust in Allaah). The words “there is no one among us…” are the words of Ibn Mas’ood, as was explained by the prominent scholars of hadeeth. This indicates that Ibn Mas’ood (may Allaah be pleased with him) understood that this was minor shirk, because he could not have said, “There is no one among us…” referring to major shirk. Moreover, major shirk cannot be eliminated by means of tawakkul, rather it is essential to repent therefrom.
(iv) – If the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) interpreted the words shirk or kufr in a manner which indicates that what is meant is a minor form thereof and not the major form. For example al-Bukhaari (1038) and Muslim (74) narrated from Zayd ibn Khaalid al-Juhani that he said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) led the morning prayer for us at al-Hudaybiyah following rainfall during the night. When the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) finished, he turned to face the people and said to them: “Do you know what your Lord has said?” They said: “Allaah and his Messenger know best.” He said: “This morning one of My slaves became a believer in Me and one a disbeliever. As for him who said: ‘We have been given rain by the grace of Allaah and His mercy,’ that one is a believer in Me, a disbeliever in the stars; and as for him who said: ‘We have been given rain by such-and-such a star, that one is a disbeliever in Me, a believer in the stars.’”
The interpretation of the word kufr here is given in another report narrated from Abu Hurayrah who said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Do you not know what your Lord said? ‘I do not send any blessing upon My slaves but a group among them become kaafirs thereby because they refer to the stars and attribute things to the stars. This explains that if a person attributes rainfall to the stars by believing that they caused it to fall – when in fact Allaah has not made the stars a means of causing rainfall – his kufr is a kind of ingratitude for the blessing of Allaah. It is well known that ingratitude for the blessing of Allaah is minor kufr. But if a person believes that the stars are controlling the universe and they are the ones that cause the rain to fall, then this is major shirk.
Minor shirk may sometimes take the form of outward actions, such as wearing talismans, strings, amulets and the like, and other words and deeds. And sometimes it may be hidden, like a little bit of showing off.
It may also take the form of beliefs:
Such as the belief that something may be a cause of bringing benefit or warding off harm, when Allaah has not made it so; or believing that there is barakah (blessing) in a thing, when Allaah has not made it so.
It sometimes takes the form of words:
Such as when they said, “We have been given rain by such and such a star,” without believing that that the stars could independently cause rain to fall; or swearing by something other than Allaah, without believing in venerating the thing sworn by or regarding it as equal with Allaah; or saying, “Whatever Allaah wills and you will,” and so on.
It sometimes takes the form of actions:
Such as hanging up amulets or wearing a talisman or string to dispel or ward off calamity, because everyone who attribute powers to a thing when Allaah has not made it so either according to sharee’ah or according to the laws of the universe, has associated something with Allaah. This also applies to one who touches a thing seeking its barakah (blessing), when Allaah has not created any barakah in it, such as kissing the doors of the mosques, touching their thresholds, seeking healing from their dust, and other such actions.
This is a brief look at the division of shirk into major and minor. We cannot go into great detail in this short answer.
Conclusion:
What the Muslim must do is to avoid shirk in both its minor and major forms. The greatest sin is shirk and transgression against the unique rights of Allaah, which are to be worshipped and obeyed alone, with no partner or associate.
Hence Allaah has decreed that the mushrikeen will abide forever in Hell and has told us that He will not forgive them, and He has forbidden Paradise to them, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Verily, Allaah forgives not that partners should be set up with Him (in worship), but He forgives except that (anything else) to whom He wills; and whoever sets up partners with Allaah in worship, he has indeed invented a tremendous sin”
[al-Nisa’ 4:48]
“Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allaah, then Allaah has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers) there are no helpers”
[al-Maa'idah 5:72]
Every wise and religiously-committed person should fear shirk for himself and should turn to his Lord, asking Him to help him avoid shirk, as al-Khaleel [Ibraaheem – peace be upon him] said:
“and keep me and my sons away from worshipping idols”
[Ibraaheem 14:35 – interpretation of the meaning]
One of the salaf said: “Who can claim to be safe from this after Ibraaheem?”
So the sincere believer’s fear of shirk should increase as should his desire for his for his Lord to keep him away from it, and he should say the great du’aa’ which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) taught to his companions when he said to them: “Shirk among you will be more subtle than the footsteps of an ant, but I will teach you something which, if you do it, both minor and major shirk will be kept away from you. Say: Allaahumma inni a’oodhu bika an ushrika bika wa ana a’lam wa astaghfiruka lima la a’lam (O Allaah, I seek refuge with You from associating anything with You knowingly, and I seek Your forgiveness for that of which I am unaware).”
Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’, 3731
The above refers to the difference between major and minor shirk, defining each and describing its types.
With regard to the difference between them as far as the ruling is concerned:
Major shirk puts a person beyond the pale of Islam, so the one who does that is judged to be out of Islam and to have apostatized therefrom, so he is a kaafir and an apostate.
Minor shirk does not put a person beyond the pale of Islam, rather it may be done by a Muslim but he still remains in Islam; but the one who does that is in great danger because minor shirk is a major sin. Ibn Mas’ood (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “If I were to swear by Allaah falsely, that is better for me than if I were to swear by something other than Him sincerely.” So he regarded swearing by something other than Allaah (which is minor shirk) as being worse than swearing by Allaah falsely, and it is well known that swearing by Allaah falsely is a major sin.
We ask Allaah to make our hearts steadfast in adhering to His religion until we meet Him, and we seek refuge in His Might – may He be glorified – from going astray, for He is the Ever-Living Who never dies, but the jinn and mankind will die. And Allaah knows best and is most wise, and to Him is the final return of all.
hey guys aap log ney dooh chasmi hay sey kafi mushaqat ley lee hai….woh bhi midnight ko….it reminds me of the midnight skulker….i love that guy….
@Balma jee…mae bhee insaan hoo’n…..zehen tou saazishi hae!…
sir I have an uncle very dear who love us very much….and is always there to help us when we are in trouble…serious trouble…..recently I was wondering why is it so that over the years the trouble precedes him…my suspicion grew even more when I noticed that he canceled his planned visit after we managed to tackle the trouble before his arrival…..
same seems to be the case of talebans….first the video of a young girl being beaten….now a very small district of malakand….gets the world attention….and we with all the might and machines have began to panic…cry for help….and the **uncle** is anxiously waiting for the SOS…..across the border….on the hilltop…in the valleys….deep in the sea….ready and willing…..
wkhang,
Watch your butt from now on. Taleban brothers will be after you, because according to wahabis, equating prophet Muhammad with God is shirk.
I am wondering who is going do force your body on the ground when they lash your butt….I hope some homosexual taleban is doing that.
Also, I don’t know if you realize or not, KabirDas sahib is a family man and won’t have time to follow up with you on each and every statement full of mumbo jumbo you wrote.
Finally, please take a bus to Kabul at your first opportunity.
Wasiq,
When we know the people around are watching, we must fix our house.
Get it?
KD,
Talking of Saudi money, there is an article in April 15th issue of Wall Street journal (www.wsj.com) about Pakistan where they mention how Saudi Arabia is holding aid to PK as part of sam chacha’s plan because they want Navaz Sharif in power instead of Zardari.
I have no doubt that this time around, Navaz Sharif will go all the way and implement the worst of the policies that even his murshid Zia couldn’t do.
Aap, MQM kee ghundagardi kay baaray may kuchh bhee raa-ae rakhtay hou’n, at least they have put their foot down and refused to vote for the dangerous bill. I wish they had voted in negative, and not just abstained.
Does any maai kaa laal have statistics from NA vote, how many votes in favor and how many against…or was every vote in favor?????
@ whkhan.
sir sorry last khutbaa miss hu giya….inshalah agla khutba meen pehli suf me baitoon ga…
although it may sound weird, but i tow the same line……alama balma wud instantly say, ahaaa i knew he was a jamati……but infact i am more than a jamati….my inclination is more on teh extremist side, and i favour pure wahabism…..i love talabanism ,,,but i hate bushy smelly talibans……this is the set of ontradictions i live on……i love death metal, late night steamy movies, escapads, oogling at burqa less girls….yet i hate drugs, crimes, robberires, corruptions…….
now the probelm is….if i vote for talban, i wud get rid of the things i HATE, but i wud loose the things i love too……so the question is…is my hate stroug enough to make me sacrifice the things i love……i guess not……for those who can do….they are the ones that become the taliban or at a higer level the suiscide bombers…….
looks like there is some leel of sanait left in me….( my medication really works after all eh )
@ balma.
sir , right on….i truly endross tht yes wahabism following taliban wud enjoy floggin mr whkahn for this…….
as for my infatuation of the concept of wahabism…..i take it similar to my infatuation of icecream…..i like it hell alot…..but i prefer it to consume it in small quantities.
( fasee eats one walls’ feast in 2-3 days or soo)
@ Balma,
Oh come on man you dont have to send everyone to Kabul on the Bus, its far yarr atleast give a ticket of airconditioned bus, lolzzz.
Dude, Answer my simple Question ?
What Firka Mohammad PBUH Had/Have ? little Sensitive be careful to answer it, ask your dad or elders if not know it.
Peace
@ Fasee,
It was not any Khutba it was a part of my knowledge which I just provide you all : ).
Talking in General,
People have habit to try to recognize other by there habits, reactions, way of talking, movement, education or way of life.
For example:
If I go to mosque to pray with shalwar Kameez and do pray five times a day, try to avoid night parties or just do not go into, listening songs is prohibit for me and my family members or my fallow me as well.
Stamp: 1
“MOLVE “
If I tell to others to fallow the same than
Stamp: 2
“TEBHLEGY”
If I fallow some A, B, C, D and E in religion
Stamp: 3 as per category e.g
Sunny, Wahaby, Hanfay, Bory, Shia, Ahel Sunnet, Ahel Jammat, Ahel Haees, Hamely, Shafy, etc even I do not know how many.
If I fallow all those things which is currently going on in our country listen songs, go into night clubs, dates, Girl Friends, no respect to each other, just money is our mission, drinking, smoking etc etc
Stamp: 4
“Kool guy” or “Moderate”
Lets cut this story here and stamp it
“BREAK” talk ya all later on.
@ kaami
" How I am glad that Muttahida didn’t give up its teeth and I will advise others to grow them as soon as possible."
Sir, teeth you either have or don’t have. I found it heartening to see that some one (MQM) does have teeth. All others unfortunaely were found unasamedly toothless. It is futile to expect them to grow teeth now. The best they can do is to have some artifical teeth installed just to make a show of it to win votess to remain in power.
I salute MQM. In this I will stand by them and support them much more than I supported the lawyers movement.
@ balma
I know a number of Red Shirts. They are really sick and tired of Green turbans.
My next door neighbour is a Pathan family who has recently moved in from Peshawar for their safety. He himself continues to work in Peshawar and comes to Islamabad on and off to visit his family. They are living here like Mohajirs. They are themselves fairly religious and parda observing but you should hear them to know how much they despise the Taliban.
but, KD, do you think Red Shirts are wearing Green Turban to capture whole Paksitan or at least enough for their Pathan Kingdom…..My muft Masvarah for them, go to Afghanistan and establish Pathan Kingdom or Communist state or Taleban state or whatever west of Torkham …not on this side of Khyber Pass…..This is Indo-Pak.
And, Wkhang, I am not interested in knowing Prophet Muhammad’s firqa.
Just don’t want this taleban bullshit in Pakistan. Go to Kabul.
You didn’t tell me if you will personally tie down your sister, mother, or wife (if someone is dumb enough to marry you) when Taleban haraamees and sex maniancs are lashing them?
And, what abouit your self, when homosexual talebans hit you on your butt?
go to Afghanistan immediately to experience taleban pleasures.
Fasee,
Actually, to be honest many of Abdul Wahab’s ideas were not bad, but forcing other people on DanDay kay zore per, like in Saudi Arabia, or like these fucking Taleban….this is unacceptable. Simialrly, Navaz Sharif is unacceptable. He is too much in bed with Saudi Arabia.
Fuck him.
@ Balma,
That was your last move with no logic answer of question which I asked, you just off the track, buddy your language proves it that how much educated are you.
That does not effect me and others at all, you keep doing your abusive language.
Dude its okay our thoughts are may be different but I welcome to the freindship. : )
Relax calm down.
Peace
@ wkhang
1. I had just requested for your precise definition of Shirk and not for the unwarrated and unsoilcied exhibition of your knowledge on the subject. Will you please oblige as requested.
2. You may also define Shirk in regard to prophet Muhammad pbuh.
3. After having defined Shirks of both kinds you may explain very briefly why Shirk is an unforgiveable sin and murder not so in Islam.
4. Recently in an Islamic site on the internet I read that Einstein’s famous equation showing the realationship between Mass and Energy :
E = m . c square = SHIRK
Will you kindly take the trouble to expain how come so.
5. Please cofirm if you have read prophet Muhammad’s pbuh wadai (last,farewell)khutaba which he delivered not very long before his death.
6. Have you ever in your life read any book other than an Islamic or your course books ?
@ wasiq
The uncle may have his own agenda but if it concides with or runs parallel to my own agenda then I will put uncle’s DANDA to my advantage.
@ balma
1. " Talking of Saudi money,…………………………………. that even his murshid Zia couldn’t do."
Does not stand to reason
2. "Aap, MQM kee ghundagardi kay baaray may kuchh bhee raa-ae rakhtay hou’n"
After this MQM ko saat qatal moaaf hain. I salute MQM ghundas. I would love to have more such ghundas in Pakistan.
@ balma (contd)
3. "how many votes in favor and how many against…or was every vote in favor?????"
Balma bhai please don’t ask about the voting pattern. Main nay to jis kee bhee dum utha kay dekha woh maada hee nikla. Aur maada tou kher maada theen heen un ko kuch kia kahna.
@ fasee
" …..but i prefer it to consume it in small quantities."
Do you mean to say that you want to have your cake and eat it too:-)
@ balma
" establish Pathan Kingdom or Communist state or Taleban state or whatever west of Torkham …not on this side of Khyber Pass…..This is Indo-Pak."
Balma if you are not careful tum ham sab ko marwao gay. Pathan kingdom extends upto Attok River and not up to Torkham. Indo Pak starts on this side of Attock river.
@ balma
1. " Actually, to be honest many of Abdul Wahab’s ideas were not bad"
Agree. Like he was against peery mureedi and going to and praying at mazars etc.
2. " Simialrly, Navaz Sharif is unacceptable. He is too much in bed with Saudi Arabia."
Lately I have started thinking that Sher-e-Punjab may not be a bad idea after all—-at least under the present set of circumstances—–being slightly to the right of the middle—– we should be pragmatic—–we can move to the middle or to the left of the middle gradually in due course peacefully and wisely. You may fuck him later. Don’t fuck him at this critical juncture.
@KD sarkar……then I will put uncle’s DANDA to my advantage.
sir Iam afraid I have two bad news for you iam sure you must have heard it already….the leader of Danda..women (lal mosque)is released….you can hear his friday sermon tomorrow….
and
your dear friend Mr new clear Arms Khan was in my family graveyard…yesterday….and nobody had the courtesy to inform me….should I be sorry to have missed an opportunity to embrace the great man…?
ah and there is one thing more….since yesterday….today we had very little load shedding….and the sounds of Azan have synchronized….from most of the mosques…..
(please don’t comment on the last one..let the active ones do.)
@Balma jee….sir you are the smartest of us all….and yet the rhythem got you…
@fasee sab…..sir you eat walls feast…it has fragments of frozen nuts… and two layers of chocolate…not good for your teeth….
@ wkhang
Don’t mind Balma. Unfortunaely, he may not be a very educated person or may be he feels he should use the language which some people unerstand the best.
I am not a very educated person either but I try to use the language of educated persons. Allow me to answer your question answer to which you seek from Balma. May be I can be of some help to you. What was your question sir. Can you repeat it for my benefit.
In the end you may also permit me to say that I regard you a highly educated and knowledgeable pearson which is evident from your discourses on religious matters. I fail to understand one thing though. How come you have never condemned a single act of Taliban like burning of girls schools and their well known treatment of women etc atc. Do you think what they are doing is as per Islamic teachings ???? Come on man take a stand like a man.
@ Mr. Das,
So finally it looks like me and you again : ), well no big deal I have time to give you some answers of your questions.
I do condemned those acts which some of groups are doing at the moment but you cant be sure that those are Talibans, give me prove that they are Talibans, do they have any identity, how you recognize them ? anyone grow his bear and mustash wear shalwar kameez and a little Pustu or Farsy or Arabic will do a job to make him Taliban, easily he can make look Pakistan "BAD", or destroy the image of Islam.
How much time it will take to make 100 or 200 mens like them ready to destroy the image of Pakistan, lets say may be two years the most.
Hey what about those 25 people who get killed in fight with locals/Pak Army, later on they found that those guys were not Muslims or even Pakisanies, proof there penis were not cut off. ewwww
From where you know all about this, well I give you answer its MEDIA what you see or how they project it, believe it yes?
They may be some groups who do these stupid things against humanity or peaceful public or against Government. But you just cant not blame that them all people in SWAT or NWFP are same.
The public wanted Islamic Law so they have it, hey target achieved.
What ever else and who ever is doing they must stop it.
I do read other books, I would not share with you about my course books. (sorry).
Yes I read the last Fatwa of Prophet (PBUH) and I know what you are trying to tell me as well.
And my question was tell me what was the firka of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH)?
Let me ad one more question if you do not mind, is there was any firka on Mohammad (PBUH) times, I am talking after Islam came?
@ All of those who seek or want some answers do read Quran and find answers in it.
Here is the best link of it. What should women do? Mr. Das, I believe that you will also find some answers in it.
Also whole public over here will find all answers please do read whole Soret Al-Ahzab.
Link: http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=33&translator=17&mac=&show_arabic=1
Please people Patience here do not jump around.
Peace
wkhang, You may want to look like a smart ass by asking dumb ass questions about Prophet Muhammad’s firqa, but it is iirelevant garbage.
Right now, in order to save your butt from your taleban brother’s you need to clarify if you think Allah and Muhammad are the same…the way you were preaching against shirk…I am waiting.
KD,
I don’t think PK can be mutahamil (felt like using this word) of another Navaz Sharif circus. He will do things to make PK closer to Saudi Arabia. We may like Saudi Arabia but we don’t want their system.
And KD bhai, Indo Pak goes all the way to Khyber Pass. That is the boundary of sub-continent.
And, after watching that video that crazyNineZero guy provided link to, the taliban in Karachi video, my first reaction was
1) saali itnee moaTee ho gayee (I am a healthy man)
and
2) then meri neend uR gayee. These jaali two-bit madrassas are all over.
They can raise a lashker any day and Karachi kay chhakaR chuRRa dai’n…oh, boy, I wish could speak Urdu right now, and again, why Sindh Governor does not ask President of Pakistan to send army to qala-qama’a these jaali madrasaas. We need action.
I also think MQM has been only half right. The bastards should have voted NO. Not just walked out.
What is maadaa? I did’nt get the point…you think every body voted yes.
I always thought maadaa in Panjabi meant slow?????
Oh, boy, is it gaali or something….I swear I have used this word even in the company of ladies….balma and his stupidities!
@kabirdas – @balma
Just a reminder, its not the first time Mr. Wahab is indirectly responsible bringing chaos and bloodshed to the region.
Shah Wali ullah was disgusted with the ways of the Muslims during the the mughal times. He despised inter mingling of ordinary people of different faiths and yearned for Puritanism. He went to Hijaz to perform Hajj and then to the desert of Najd where he spent a lot of time in the company of Mr. Wahab and was smitten by his ideas. Upon his return he had a plan, he was the one who wrote to Afghan King Ahmed Shah Abdali, pleading him to invade and teach the decadent Muslims of Sub Continent a lesson. Which he did, his is by far the most savage and bloodiest invasion, from Punjab to Delhi the streets of towns and cities were drenched with blood, mostly of fellow Muslims. His cuelty shocked even the moguls and eventually Delhi was burnt down and devastated. He eventually went back after filling his coffers and moguls were never able to recover. The carnage he brought was my friend influenced by Wahaabi ideals.The same was done by Najdi Tribes when they invaded Iraq / Basra and ruthlessly massacred the resident Shia’s and non Shia’s alike.
@kabirdas – As for Nawaz Sharif – For me he is still no more than an incompetent thief. Since you have such strong views on the rule of law, that getting rid of Mush is justified. To accept your logic give me a worthy alternative. Is there any? or we have just shot ourselves in the foot?
@ balma
Sorry about not having made my self clear on this word ‘maadaa’. To start off with I should have spelled it as ‘maada’ which would have made it more clear. It is a Urdu word which means ‘female’ that is opposite of ‘nar’ or ‘nur’ which means ‘male’. In English we say ‘Masculine’ or ‘Faminine’. In Urdu we say ‘Mozzakar’ or ‘Mowannas’. I think in Punjabi they say ‘Nur’ or ‘Maada’.
I think now you would understand what I meant when I said:
Jis kee bhee dum utha kay daikha woh maada hee nikla:-)
I am not sure if it Urdu saying or just a Punjabi saying.
@ wkhang
….hey chill out dude, no offence done and none taken….agree on the point that we live in a fast life, where we dont stop to take our time ANYLASING others, we just stamp them with a sterotype, and place them ina slot…….that makes the life hell for those of uss who are an odd ball, not fit in any of the pre-defined classes or catagories
i am a Kool guy as per your stamp, but with a jamaitiya soul hidden in me cubboard, nd a sesky poster of molvi fazlulah with a ak47 on me wall……..confused, rootless, lost identity or what…..
where is the choice for free thinking….??
what if i like to pray but dont like to have an ugly beard on me face…..i mean my sense of asthetics does not accepet a beard coz it does not suit me…..on some faces it really suits a well maintianed beard..but not on every face…certainly not mine…..then am i not amuslim…….
once i went to pray in juma prayers i was near a pathan basti, i stoped my phatphati and went inside…..almost every one of those pathans were lookign at me…..and my colleauge kept on saying, sir plz tie utaar lejiyee koi masla na hu gai..ya shirt ke andar ker lain….and i was pissed off ke WHHHHYYY …either i will pray like this or let me be bruised and battered but those freaks….but i wont put my tie inside……its a piece of fabric used and an executive accessory not a christian cross what every half litrate mullah make you think it is……..and here we are talking bout sterotypes……although i was in freakout out mode that time…later on i thought what HUGE risk i had taken……so now….i eirther pray inside my office, or go to statebank where everyother one is wearing a tie
read this funny yet dark article about how our future will be under those BIGOTS…who think world ceased to spin when our prophet died…..and plzzzzzzz dont we start this ocnterversy wheter he died or as our barelvi people say, ke woh PARDA farma gai and will be back blah blah blah….
http://www.express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1100604087&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20090416
@ KD
i just meant to say, things that we even like to much, should be consumed at the rate on which we can digest or absorb it…..otherwsie result wud be the same as a gadha gari’s driver who wud be given a Maclaren SLR to drive…..punjabi me kehtay hain
ayee gaddi te wajaay ee wajaay….:):)
@ balma.
sir i like uncle wahab bcoz he hated peer fakrs and qabar parasti at almsotr the same level as myself…..his followrs went to ravage the world…well its the same as accusing prophet that look what osma bin ladin is doing….
wisay to answer wkhang i guess he must be follwoing "Salafiz" coz they were stuck in that past 1400 yrs ago….( another stamp for you sir wkhang)….:D:D
@ wkhang.
sir, i am a fan on all ( evne the absurdest ) conpiracy theories on earth…..i belive in area 51, israeli 9/11 nexus, UFOs, the little green guys abduting women to do some nasty tests, the shadow government, the grand bankers mafia, the polio vacine / impotency scam, fake moon landing, paramids being extra trestariel transmiters, bermuda triangle…you name it i belive it.
but what i fail to belive with all my insanity notwithstanding…..if i were a master planer with all the budget and time to pant sleeper cells within society to act 10-15 years laters, in a decent scale of 100-500 people or so…tlak bout logistics, finances, social costs etc…….i achive all that…..and yet i foirget or simply ignore to cut the pipe of these chaps…which wud have been too clear to there wives, girlfrends…..or during any thanna dar’s interogation…….wud i be so stupid to let my plan risk failure for the sake of a cut on the pipeline….???……and plz dont talk bout religion…as those whocan lay there lives and sacrifice there familyies to live with enemies for 10-20 years wud give a damn if there is a scar on there pipe……..
bottom line.
wen somebody give me the onyl proof they have as evidence that they were no muslims, that "un ki toonti kati hoi nai thi"……i pitty there single diit IQ sorry to say……
why dont our ulema, who are so paranioid that our pasports can be utiliesed by indinas and israilis, make it obligatory to have a picture of the scar ojn the pipe shown on our pasoprts…as its the only identifcxation we accept in pakistan is it…??
@ wasiq
" the leader of Danda..women (lal mosque)is released….you can hear his friday sermon tomorrow…."
Sir, if these guys are getting help for spreading ignorance and taking us back to their glorious stone age there is no reason why we should not seek help from our Uncle Sam. Call me American toady or what you may but I am all for seeking the help of Uncle Sam which he is willing to provide. Uncle Sam will not only shove their dandas back into their back sides but also hit them so hard that they wouldn’t know what hit them. Enough is enough. I will rather have Pakistan as the 51st state of America than have a Pakistan ruled by hese religious bigots and lunatics.
I will rather have our soverignity violated by Americans to send these bearded devils to Jannat and let us live in peace than have Pakistan’s writ and soverignity violated by these lunatics and make our and every one else’s life miserable on this plannet.
Do you think MQM will be able to wipe out their madrassas from Karachi on their own. I don’t think so. Those madrassas can only be wiped out by uncle sam using its drones.
@ wkhang on April 17th
I had asked you precise and concise questions numbering each for ease of ref. Please don’t try to baffle me like a Mullah with your bull. Answer my questions in a precise and concise manner if you will and if you can’t do that like an educated and well informed person it is better you follow the advice of Will Durant: Keep your mouth shut and your bowles open. Please don’t make me more sick than I already I am. If you continued in his manner I will hand you over to Balma to take care of you.
@ balma
" We may like Saudi Arabia but we don’t want their system."
I neither like Saudi Arabia nor their system. I like Americans and like their system. For me it is as simple as that.
" Indo Pak goes all the way to Khyber Pass. That is the boundary of sub-continent."
I still think it is not a true natural boundry. It is a boundry drawn by Mr. Durand. I am not saying anything about its legal status. Its legal status came under discussion in our press recently. I believe one can find lot of info about Durand Line on internet via google.
" I am a healthy man"
Seeing is believing :-)
" why Sindh Governor does not ask President of Pakistan to send army to qala-qama’a these jaali madrasaas. "
There are many pitfalls in doing that. DRONES is the answer my friend if you don’t mind. Let them see what merciful God is sending for them from up above the world so high; twinkling little stars.
" The bastards should have voted NO"
‘NO’ would have been better but still they showed some guts which was much more than the martial race and others did.
@ fasee on April 17th
Appreciate your most appropriate comments. I can add much more to it but am short of time right now. And you knw how I type :-)
@ fasee
And these days ‘toonti katana’ has become so easy. When KD had his toonti cut all the anasthesia that he got was by way of telling him: ‘Look Churia aai.’
KD looked up to see Churia come which never came and in this process he had his toonti cut.
Since then KD has developed a phobia and till today never looks up to see a Churia coming :-)
@ KD.
i apprictae you went rhu my blah blah balh ( i am asuming that )
as for the uncle sam thingy, jaan ki maan paon tu araz karoon…….fasee when was a kiddie, did thought that yes, uncle sam ko bulaooo….jahaz ayeen gay, the savious in there shiny bullet proof armour will come and lift this qom in distress….taking it away form the freaky mullah…into the lala land of free thinking, free amrket, captilism…al la land of oppurtunities……
we karachietets were more in this dream as we were led to belive our seperation form pakistan wud leed it ti become a new honkong or dubai…under uncle sam…and blah blah blah…you know the rest…as the cliche goes….REST IS HISTORY…..
so now when i am in a age group….who are sefly "stamped" having there innocense lost….my thinking has changed.
now i know…if the guy in shiny aroumr is trying to take the damsel away form the rapist mullah…he wont submit it into edhi dar-ul-aman…..he will certainly take her into his den and take the "payment" from her….
kisaa mukhtasir….uncle sam wont let us in as 51st state…they amercians dont work like that…..they will use us to fight the mullahs, they will give us cash and weapons…like they did to afghnas…..then will throw us away as atissue paper…or shud i say explestively…throw us away like a 2 dollar prostitute, thrown away after being used…..
KD sir, americans dont marry off all those who they have affairs with…period.
@ kaami
I didn’t know about the part that Shah Wali Ullah played in inviting Ahmed Shah Abdali to attack I ndia.
Sometime back I read an intersting account of Ahmed Shah Abdali’s attack on India and what he did in Delhi written by Khishwant Singh.
" give me a worthy alternative"
a. Fight it as our own war.
b. Have America as an ally and get all his help, without if and buts, to fight this menace posed by absolute lunatics.
@ KD.
b. Have America as an ally and get all his help, without if and buts, to fight this menace posed by absolute lunatics.
sir, but dont you think we would be locking overselves in a closed loop…..in WWE lingo….decth match, no holds barred, two comes in, only one leaves, or no one leaves at all….:D:D
besides…talibans have there roots fertilised byt he very same pakistanis and americans….they strive on hate…and what usa & pak do will futher strengthen it….
my solution wud be the one southafirca was working on when they ceased to be…….biowarfare…..just cleanse the whole upconutry by some plauge….those pathans deserves as much as those lunatics….as they were the ones who gave them space and finace from the start……they were the ones who were supportign them whenever we trried to take action…they were the ones who did strikes for them……only now they know what stupidty they did…..look at history how fazlulah was supported by all the villagees by doantions……so jsut eridicate them all like i remove wild weed….i either use herbacides or if ineffective, i jsut rhow petrol on my lawn…and blow it away…( with fire extinguisher nearby ) hehe……radcial situations demand radical solutions…..(oh by the way gues si forgot to take me pills today )
Balma ,
I have ignored you several times till this point, I can ignore you may be one more time or so but it depends how nasty you can become. Bring it on your inner side, I would like to view and read your mental health, with that I will be for sure that what is your background.
Here is my hand towards you for friendship.
Respectfully,
WK
@ Mr. Das,
Sir you have asked so much in different times in different comments, so I tried to give you answer in one piece, well I guess I faild to reply you properly or may be you have some porblem in understanding of it.
I gave you so many answers with logic proofs in the past and at this stage as well, I am not restricted to reply your all answers.
Quote: "If you continued in his manner I will hand you over to Balma to take care of you."
With all due respect, I do not care about such comment.
@ Fasee,
Bahi, aap nay jo kuch kaha sahi hay, I AGREED.
KD, thank. Of ocurse I know Urdu Maadah, but I guess it was different in Panjabi when they used maadaa…..
SO, I guess it is something not to be said with ladies around, because it insults women!
Kaami,
I am not sure if Shah Vali Ullah was contemproary of Abdul Wahab. I know for sure Syed Ahmad Barelvi was influenced by Abdul Wahab, but not sure abouyt Shah Wali Ullah.
I consider Shah Vali Ullah (the ass) to be responsible for the beginning of Muslim civilization of India. His encouragement to Ahmad Shah Abdali (if this is actually true – sure, it is mentioned, but is it true) caused greatest harm to Muslims of India in the long run.
wkhang,
i prefer a smart enemry over a naadaan friend.
Here are my questions again:
Will you hold your sister, mother, or wife (if someone is dumb enough to marry you) on ground, while taleban are lashing at them.
Please explain why you should not be lashed by teleban for equating Muhammad with God in your definition of shirk (unless you have fantasies about getting butt-lashed by homosexual talebans)
KD, I assume the mountains of Khyberpass are the natural boundary.
But, we can have this debate another time.
For now, I think PK army has become redundant and total useless.
They have no balls and should be disbanded.
oh-ho,
I meant I consider Shah Vali ullah, the ass, to be resposible for the beginning of destruction of Muslim civilization of India.
@ wkhang
I reproduce below my questions once again if you would care to answer them in a prcise and concise manner. If you can’t do that please forget about it. I don’t have time to hear the same kind of waaz which I have been hearing ever since I was born. Argue with reason and not emotion with me please.
1. I had just requested for your precise definition of Shirk and not for the unwarrated and unsoilcied exhibition of your knowledge on the subject. Will you please oblige as requested.
2. You may also define Shirk in regard to prophet Muhammad pbuh.
3. After having defined Shirks of both kinds you may explain very briefly why Shirk is an unforgiveable sin and murder not so in Islam.
4. Recently in an Islamic site on the internet I read that Einstein’s famous equation showing the realationship between Mass and Energy :
E = m . c square = SHIRK
Will you kindly take the trouble to expain how come so.
5. Please cofirm if you have read prophet Muhammad’s pbuh wadai (last,farewell)khutaba which he delivered not very long before his death.
6. Have you ever in your life read any book other than an Islamic or your course books ?
Imran Khan is going cuckoo.
Did you see his comment in Lahore on sucess of Taleban in Swat?
What an asshole!
@ balma
I didn’t see the comments but wonder why do you guys demean the asshole so much :-)
@ balma
This morning after reading the paper missus gave me a worried look and suggested I may consider changing my name before the Taliban get here. She felt my name, Kabir Das, sounds like a hindoo name and as such will not go well with them. I asked her to suggest some modification to it so that I still retain my idientity. She thought for a moment and came up with the suggestion as:
Muhammad Kabir Das Khan
I told her I will consult a friend of mine who is an expert on such matters. She asked me the name of my friend and when told: Balma, she seemed more concerned, thought for another moment and then blurted out: And tell him also to modify his name as:
Muhammad Balma Khan
Now how do you feel about changing our names as suggested by the missus??
@KD sarkar….sir if the US got to you first….then what? John kabir das Jr….and McBalma applegate…or appleton….
thankGod you did not discuss my change over…with the Mrs…..
wkhanG ki battery finished….or is he banned again..?
Mr.Das,
I have given you answers, you required to go back and check it my previous comments.
Balma,
I will be able to give you all answers if you tell me honestly, Are you hindu ?
@ Wasiq,
I am here brother dont worry, I do not run from the ground unless some one become (N***D).
I will remain POSITIVE till the end, thats what I learned it.
I suggest you all to read Quran with Translation and you will get your answers in it.
Here is the Link: http://www.islamicfinder.org/quran/quran.php
You can put your search word in it and this site will find answers for you.
I hope no one will get offend with my Offer here.
Peace
@balma I am not sure that the blame for the "destruction of Muslim civilization of India." The decay was started by Aurangzeb. Here is the summarized historical account about Shah Sahib:
"Shah Waliullah left for Arabia for Hajj at age 23, he lived two year in Hejaz and Nejd, where he came into contact with Wahab and joined forces with him. At the time Wahab already had developed an alliance with Ibn Saud. Around 1731 0r 32 Shah Waliullah returned to India and I quote "Laid the foundation of Political Islam in subcontinent"
Shah Waliullah called for returnn of true Islam and to bolster his credibility he claimed to be of Arab origin. He indeed wrote the letter to Ahmed Shah Abdali in which he said:
"At this juncture you are the only person with foresight, initiative and power to defeat the enemy and free the Muslims from the clutches of infidels"
Hence, Ahmed Shah Abdali invaded and invaded four times. He defeated the Marhattas, sacked and burnt Lahore, invaded Kashmir and even destroyed Delhi in 1756.He blinded the Emperor and massacred tens and thousands of Muslims.His barbarity is legendary.
@wkhanG…..that’s the spirit man….never surrender until they ban you….
the link for quran search you have given is really amazing….I had multiple CD’s but this seems much easier…..I checked the word ALLAH in AN_NAS and the result was quite surprising…..
God Bless you SIR.
@ wasiq.
you forgot my fighting spirit ( or shud i call dheet spirit )….i get banned one day and freed another….made me feel at par with shoaib akhtar…:D:D:D
althouhg i noticed, i have become less offensive..or its just in my head
@ kkhang
You ask: "Are you hindu ?"
In 1957 Bertrand Russel the greatest phiolspher of 20th century wrote a book titled ‘WHY I AM NOT A CHRISTAIN’. In the preface of this book Bertrand Russel said something about all
major religions which still holds good TODAY more for Islam than any other religion. He wrote:
Quote
I think all the great religions of the world – Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity and Islam – both untrue and harmful. It is evident as a matter of logic that, since they disagree, not more than one of them can be true. With very few exceptions, the religion which a man accepts is that of the community in which he lives, which makes it obvious that
the influence of environment is what has led him to accept the religion in question.
The question of the truth of a religion is one thing, but the question of its usefulness is another. I am firmly convinced that religions do harm as I am that they are untrue.
The harm that is done is of two sorts, the one depending on the kind of belief which it is thought ought to be given to it, and the other on the particula tenents believed. As regards the kind of belief: it is thought virtious to have faith – that is to say, to have conviction which can’t be shaken by contrary evidence. Or, if contrary evidene might induce
doubt, it is held that contrary evidence be suppressed. The conviction that it is important to believe this or that, even if free enquiry will not support the belief, is one which is common to almost all religions and which inspires all system of State education. The cosequences is that the minds of the young are stunted and are filled with fanatical hostility both to those who have other fantascisms, and, even more virulently, to those who object to all fanaticisms. A habit of basing conviction on evidence, and giving to them only that degree of crtainity which the evidence warrants, would, if it became general, could cure most of the ills from which the world is suffering. But at present, in most countries, education aims at preventing the growth of such a habit, and men who refuse to profess belief in some unfounded dogmas are not considered suitable as teachers of the young. For my part, I think better to do a little good than to do much harm. I should wish to see a world
in which education aimed at mental freedom rather than at imrisioning the minds of the young in a rigid armour of dogma calculated to protect them through life against the shaft of impartial evidence. The world needs open hearts and open minds, and it is not through rigid systems, whether old or new, that these can be derived.
Unquote
Now having quoted this great man of 20th century I must say that I agree one hundred percent with what he said in regard to religions, all religions including Islam. As such Mr Wkhang you may assign me any religion you like to or none at all. However, to make it easier for you to answer my questions, serial wise briefly in your own words, which you have not been able to do so far in a meaningful way, you can assume that: I AM A HINDU.
@ Wasiq,
No problem, do visit my blog you will find much more interesting sites to learn, I am also learner and will remain learner till my last day in this world.
About ban, well thats ths thing which we all need to learn that we should stick with the topic and should not talk against the topic, reamining in circle will keep us all in motion.
Have you sean that website have how maney languages they can translate the Quran, amazing web site.
May Allah give us power to read understand and impliment in our life.
The Quran is an log book of this whole world, simple is that. In Pakistan, us learn the Quran with out understanding of it or translation, at some level it was okay but what we all should do we required to go back to basics and start reading from the start with translation, try to put that words into our life, I am sure if we do that, you will see the change into your life.
Positive Change.
@ kaami
So it seems it will not be wrong to say that foundation of talibinasation in the subcontinent was laid at the time of Aurangzeb. And to get the power he had two of his brothers killed and his father blinded and incarcerated. He was then the first Talib of subcontinent. Must be a role model of present days Mullas like Fazalullah, Soofi Muhammad and Mulla Omar et al
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
- Galileo Galilei
@ wkhang
" I do not run from the ground "
I don’t know what you mean by not running from the ground but I have seen you running with your tail between your hind legs when confronted with reason and logic. One example of it is your long irrelevant comments (like the ones you have posted this time) on IMB about the efficacy of prayers. When I confronted you with reason and logic that God does not seem to listen or act on our prayers you quit saying you would not like to discuss this subject anymore.
Would you like me to reopen the same subject again on IMB for you to face the truth which goes against what you have been fed by the Mulla from a very young age.
@ wasiq on April 18th
It is good to know that you have found a useful link. I am also glad to know that you are making effort to understand your religion. We should all do that but while doing so we should not forgo the use of our own head to see what stands to reason and what doesn’t. We should not take the word of a Mulla for granted since:
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire (1694 – 1778)
@ wasiq
"sir if the US got to you first….then what? John kabir das Jr…."
Like I always say you are a real smart guy. It is another flash of your brilliance. You have put me back to square one. Let me think more about this problem.
However, you must also be careful about your name. Taliban can very easily mistake it for Fasiq. And you know unlike Americans they act first and ask questions later. That’s the quick justice all about:-)
@ fasee
"you forgot my fighting spirit"
Sir, is ’spirit’ by any chance a play on word ie a pun :-)
" i have become less offensive.."
Must be the effect of your medicine sir.
Kabir-Das is half Arabic name. You can just change it to Abdul Kabir.
I will change mine to Habeeb!
Mr. Das,
Well its time to me again to run. I have done my work and sean the effect of it, at this point I am satisfied.
Allah gave me enough calm into my heart and head. We will talk again some where may be on IMB KMB or LMB.
I value your thoughts, experience and on top I like your open mind personality. Our thougts are may be different our ways as well but the real thing is that we all live in one country which gives us " Freedom " to live think eat etc.
Sir, from here I would like to end my part of conversation.
In Sawat People are happy and living peacfully now, so we should also.
Regards.
WK
Wkhang,
Why don’t you work hard a bit:
Answer my question, 5 times, assuming I am:
1)Hindu
2)Jew
3)Chrisitan
4) Muslim
5) Parsi
Thanks.
@ wkhang
Adieus my friend.
Taliban can very easily mistake it for
@KD sarkar….sir….if you google Wasiq….you will know how much….both loves the name….the followers believe he is alive…and the killer want them to believe so…..the best and the most courageous commander….i wont be surprized if they have Abdul Haq tuckshop somewhere near the washington memorial….
as far as I am concerned….I think I’ll survive…the talebans…because I have spent the best day of life…without wine&women….almost grounded…and you may have noticed that even today I feel proud in regrats and rainchecks to invitations….unbelievable…
@ wasiq
When the mob is on the rampage and on a killing spree the small difference in names don’t matter much to them. Reminds me of Shakepere’s play Julius Ceaser. When the mob was on the move for a killing spree some one spotted ( I forget the name now. I will check it and get back to you with more detail tomorrow. For now let me say his name was Peter.) Peter. Someone shouted there is Peter the conspirator. Kill him. Someone else said he is not Peter the conspirator. He is Peter the poet. The first one said: Then kill him for his bad verses.
So it may happen that they may not know whether you are Abdul Huq Wasiq or Wasiq Khan the movie maker. They may take you for Wasiq Khan and kill you not only for making movies but making bad movies on top of that:-)
" I have spent the best day of life…without wine&women…."
Sir, ‘best days without wine and woman’ is a contradictory statement which is called an ……( I forget the word for it right now. Let you know tomorrow)
" unbelievable…"
Don’t mind but I would say highly regretable and condemable to say the least:-)
@KD sarkar…..Then Tomorrow would be a better day than today……(i hope somebody famous said it before yesterday)
It’s just another manic Monday
I wish it was Sunday
‘Cause that’s my funday
My I don’t have to runday
It’s just another manic Monday
@ wasiq
" ……(i hope somebody famous said it before yesterday)"
Sorry to disappoint you. KD didn’t say it.
With ref to my last comments:
1. The name of the charcter in Julius Ceaser which I could not remember las night was ‘Cinna’. When the mob was on the rampage after the speech of Mark Antony they came across this guy and asked him who he was. He introduced himself as ‘Cinna’. There was also a guy by the name of Cinna involved in the murder of JC. So some one says kill him he is Cinna the consoirator. He turns around and tells them that he was not Cinna the conspirator but Cinna the poet. At that someone in the crowd says ‘Kill him for his bad verses.’
2. The word for cotradiction in terms like ‘ best days without wine and women’ which I couldn’t remember last night and have found out this morning is : ‘oxymoron’. Another example of oxymoron will be ‘Sharia justice’:-)
@KD sarkar…..‘oxymoron’ The word for contradiction in terms
sir by the best days I meant the generally best period of once’s life…..I don’t think oxymoron is the right term….anyways….how often do you see a Hermit having a Hershey’s….
Magas ko baagh main janey na deyna…
Na haq khoon per waney ka ho ga…..
@ KD & Wasiq.
"oxymoron" misaal dey ker waziah karain…..( 3 marks )
islamic banking
islamic leasing
islamic credit card
once i asked one islamic banking perosn…..what if i buy booze on a islamic credit card..will your bank reject the transaction or not…??
if no, then what islmic type are you..and if yes then hwo can you know if i did it..:):) first he thought deep,…then said main pooch ke batain gaa:D:D:D
@ Fasee Bahi,
Yeh tu issy terhan hay kay app kher may tu keh do kay may college Ja raha hon or bahir nekltay he app sedhay, duboo khalnay ya date per chalay jatay ho, who knows yarrrr ???
Aaap kay kher walay tu her weqet ap kay ser per nahi baith sektay na,
yeh tu ap per depend kerta hay kay kitnay HONEST han aap.
Even aik muslman seb kay samnay tu namaz perhay or chup chup ker sharab peye tu ???
kis ka kasoor ??
its all between you and your inner person if he still alive.
@ fasee
All these three are ‘baymisal’ oxymorons like the ones ‘Islamic unity’ and ‘Islamic brotherhood’. This answer should earn me at least 10 marks out of 9 plus one for khush khati (not khud kushi).
Once I told a door to door Tableeghi guy I will let you in for your tableegh after you just explain to me what is the purpose of life on this earth. He realized he had come to some wrong place and left promptly saying pooch kar bitaaon ga. He never came back again:-)
@ ayshashah
" Even aik muslman seb kay samnay tu namaz perhay or chup chup ker sharab peye tu ???"
Tu kia? He is a typical good Muslim.
Haan agar koi Kabir Das ki tarah sub kay samnay to sharab peye aur chup chup kar namaz parahay to usay aap kia kahain gee :-)
@fasee sab (ayesha ka…)….mujhey toh sub sey ziyada…Islami Mulak pasand hai…."hummarey dost aur humsaya islami mulak turkey…."
ahad-e-vafaa aur tark-e-muhabbat jo chaaho so aap karo
apane bas kii baat hii kyaa hai, hamase kyaa manavaaoge
@ ayesha.
bibi yeh baiyee…ke masjid is a designated place….wahan aap dance party kerwa lain tu aap ki pitai hogi..balkay hungama hu jai.
on otherhand, empty plots are used for funtions….and on eids hum namaz bhi partha hain…wihtout any trouble.
you know why……??
bcoz, masjid is a DECLARED , DESIGNATED place…with a open objective….its not upon individul slecetive descions.
main polt pe kiya karon meri marzi….per majid me aap ki marzi nai chalti.
similarly……conventioanl card pe aap books buy karoo ya vodka its your descion……but in islamic credit card..you are delcaring it ke yeh dekho yeh hai ISLAMIC credit card….its all "sar sae paon tak " islami….so how does it feel buying vodka form it.
secondly..your comments " koi aap ke sar pe nahe baitha hota"
madam if we use credit card, there is a regular billing, no matger how minor the amount is……can not we block the wine vendors from our lists agar yeh itni hi buri baat hai…..its not a big task …even if it was a big task..agar neyat sahe ho tu koi msukil nahee.
hope it clarifies
@ KD.
"samnay to sharab peye aur chup chup kar namaz parahay to usay aap kia kahain gee :-)"
simply awsome.
@ Wasiq.
how bout milli yakjehti, pakistan islami qila.
@ wasiq
Please don’t mind if I correct you. Islami Mulak is not an oxymoron.
@ fasee
‘milli yakjehti’ is an oxymoron.
‘pakistan islami qila’ will no longer be a oxymoron after the talibans take it over:-)
Let me give you couple of more oxymorons not invoving Islam.
1. Military justice
2. Microsoft Works
3. PWD Works
4. Moderate Mulla
If you have difficuty in figuring out 2 and 3 just ask KD to explain.
kabirdas,
App nay pocha ager aap seb kay samnay petay (Uff Alla), or chup chup ker namaz perthay han Tu ?, Meray khaial may app tu phir kissy sharab khanay kay malik legtay han, sorry bahi bura nah manna, ya phir jaisay kay ap kay nam say zahir hay ka two boats may pair rekho gay tu …pata hay na…na idher kay na udher kay.
Fassee,
Sahi hay Bahi legay raho..lolzzz
Why Taliban are so against women?? This is what Will Durant has to say:
Civilization came through two things chiefly: the home, which developed those social dispositions that form the psychological cement of society; and agriculture, which took man from his wandering life as hunter, herder, and killer, and settled him long enough in one place to let him build homes, schools, churches, colleges, universities, civilization. But it was woman who gave man agriculture and the home; she domesticated man as she had domesticated the sheep and the pig. Man is woman’s last domestic animal, and perhaps he is the last creature that will be civilized by woman. The task is just begun.
Will Dura
Female is nothing without man. Man came on this earth first, I respect all males who respect females…sahi
Fasiq,
While I do admire your ability to quote good Urdu poetry, but when it comes to English songs – please move beyond 1980s.
Why are you stuck like Pakistani restaurants and even 5 star hotels in music from George Micheal and Bangles?
I swear, next time I hear careless whispers in Chandni Lounge, I will vahan kay manager kaa garaibaa’n pakaR kar ussay allah, rasool, taleban kaa vastaa doo’n keh bhagvaan kee khaatir, raam raam karo aur 80s kee music say aagay baRho!
@ayeshashah….1.Man fell on the earth first…all my male friends regrat this…
2.And what about the sluts,whores and Bitches….are we supposed to respect them as well…? thankyou!
@KD sarkar…Please don’t mind if I correct you. Islami Mulak is not an oxymoron.
Sir, you leaving me without goodbye….why..?
she domesticated man as she had
Sir I don’t want to argue with your friend *shoot at will* but iam sure you will agree that man is a social animal….until a female comes into his life….he put up walls and barriers to separate himself from the others of his kind…..think about it….!
@Balma jee……ok sir the next time you bring a pretty date….just let me know in advance….I’ll have them play…Allan Fakir’s Humma Humma Kar…they played this in my phopha’s valima
All I could do
All I could do
Was cry
All I could do
Was cry
I was losing
The man
That I love
And all
I could do
Was cry
@ KD, Ayeshea Aunty & Wasiq
here are my two cents on teh issue
"But it was woman who gave man agriculture and the home"
historically, it was man’s duty to build a home not women, female species provided the sexual favours and male sprovided the food and protection…….thast hwy they say its the oldest profession….besides that what animals still do…obly diffrence is …we got civilised….No w we call it independent living..:D:D
"she domesticated man as she had"
chal oyee……my ustad told me…the only phase of life when a women can really CHNAGE a man is…when he is in his diapers….:):)
other than that…..man in old times treated women no more than other sheeps, goats and cows…..that explaines the thign that women were like property to man, no matter how she is trreatd
@ Fasee, Wasiq, Aysha etal
Hey guys and gal, I am laging behind in my comments because I can’t type as fast as you can. But please note I can write better than any one who writes faster than me and write faster than anyone who writes better than me.
Beside Mrs KD has already domisticated me so much that I can’t sit before my computer until I have completed my T0 DO list which she updates the moment she sees I am siting infront of my comuter.
@ KD…..
sir, belive me…mrs KD wud certianly be a becon of light for all the opressed women outthere…who are being rteated badly by likes of fasee & waisq.
@ ayshashah
" Man came on this earth first"
Says who??
@ wasiq
" And what about the sluts,whores and Bitches….are we supposed to respect them as well…? "
To simplify this issue please let me reframe your question as follows:
Are we supposed to respect whores as well ??
If this is the question then KD’s answer is an emphatic YES. I have and be as respectful to a whore as I would be to any other lady. That I suppose is the difference in the thinking of KD and a socalled normal guy.
@ wasiq
"Sir, you leaving me without goodbye….why..?"
KD never leaves his friends with or without goodbye. He just wanted you to know what a oxymoron is. The definition of an oxymoron is as follows:
Conjoining contradictory terms (as in ‘deafening silence’)
There is no contradictory term in ‘Islamic Mulak’ like there is in ‘Islamic unity’.
" man is a social animal….until a female comes into his life….he put up walls and barriers to separate himself from the others of his kind…..think about it….! "
Thought about it. You are right in a way. However, don’t forget the barriers are genrally raised by his wife to make him a perfectly domestic animal like it was done to KD.
@ Fasee
" who are being rteated badly by likes of fasee & waisq."
Let Fasee and Wasiq marry first then talk to KD about how they are treating their wives or being treated by them :-)
Once in a barat of a lion a mouse was dancing in front of the barat alongwith other lions. Another lion asked him what business he had, being a mouse, in the barat of a lion. He clarified that before he got married he also used to be a lion.
So let be a lesson for you my lion friends.
After several days of soach-o-bichaar, Allama Balma has reached the conclusion on this Taliban nonsense treaty in Swat:
Both ANP and Taliban are tribal. They both agree to the same rules.
Same jahil ways of living. Same qabaaili tarz-e-hiyaat. Same tribalana mentality. One wears red shirts, the other black pagRi….does not matter….their thinking is the same. They both believe in qatl-o-ghaarat, tribal way of badlah, and both groups treat their women in some of the most horrible ways. They both are animals.
@ Balma
Sorry to say Allama is up the creek in drawing this conclusion. If this is so then by the same token one can say there is not much difference between the Taliban and the rest of the Pakistanis.
Both worship same God. Both have same prophet. Both believe in the same book and its teachings. Both believe their book is literally the words of God. Both think their religion is the best religion in the world. Both think their religion is for all time to come. Both have similar views about Non-Muslims. Both have same attitude towards life. Both believe the real life starts after death. Both believe they are the chosen people of God. Both believe only they will go to heaven.Both are Jahils in their own ways. Both believe if their is some conflict between science and their religion then science is wrong. Both have same heros. Both have same villians. Both are etc etc and etc.
Sir, would you like me to go on or will you do some more soach-o-bichaar.
@ ayshashah
1. " Uff Ullah"
Much more than half the world drinks openly. If poor KD does the same tau ous per ‘Uff Ullah’ kahana zarrori keon ho gaya. If by any chance you happened to go to the west will you be saying ‘uff ullah’ each time you see some one drinkng openly?? If your answer is in affirmative then let me know when will you have the time to say something other than ‘uff
ullah’:-)
2. " app tu phir kissy sharab khanay kay malik legtay han"
I would love to own a sharab khana but not to sell the stuff but to drink it. I view selling booze as Haram. There is a very nice rubai of Omar Khyyam about this concept. I doubt it if you will be able to grasp its meaning but let me quote all the same (the last two lines only need to be understood to understand why I am saying what I am saying):
And much as Wine has play’d the infidel,
And robb’d me of my Robe of Honour–well,
I often wonder what the wintner buy
One half so precious the goods they sell.
3. " two boats may pair rekho gay tu …pata hay na…na idher kay na udher kay."
Bahan, after great deal of thought I had decided not to put my foot in any of the boats. I found all of them prone to sinking if confronted with reason. I can say reason is the only boat in which I have all my feet and feel extremely content since I did that. I want to make best of this life. There is no reason to believe that the life hereafter, if at all there is one, would be any better than this one. Another rubai of Omar Khyyam may be relevent in this regard which you will not find difficult to undersatand:
Some for the Glories of This World, and some
Sigh for the Prophet’s Paradise to come,
Ah, take the Cash and let the Credit go,
Nor heed the rumble of a distant Drum!
Uff Allah, hum tou kuchh keh bhee nahi’n saktay!
kehnay kay leye kuch nahi chora, aap seb yahan bohet mazay may ho I would say keep it up and keep yourself mingled with confused thoughts with no LIFE, : )lolzzzzzzzz.
What a Joke !
So long…
@ balma
" Uff Allah, hum tou kuchh keh bhee nahi’n saktay!"
Do you remember the old filmi song which used to be quite famous:
‘Kuchh keh na sakay kuchh keh bhee gaye’
Oui Allah! thats what KD did. Allah ous ki maghfarrat karay.
Wasay Allah tau aksar maghfarrat ker hee data hay, ous kay followers say maghfarrat pana bahout mushkil hota hay.
@ ayshashah
" kehnay kay leye kuch nahi chora"
Abhi tau bohet kuch kahna thaa magar aap tau asay chal parin jasay handi jal rahi ho :-)
" aap seb yahan bohet mazay may ho"
Hamaray saath rahin gee tau bhee asay hee mazy karin gee :-)
" keep yourself mingled with confused thoughts"
Don’t you see we are trying to untangle ourselves from confused thoughts !
"What a joke"
Which joke ?? You mean ‘life’ ???? Life may be a joke but KD is not a joker. Some one else seems to be. Wouldn’t like to name him lest you say ‘Uff Allah ‘ again :-)
" So long …"
How long :-) See you again. Take care.
[...] wasiq on April 16th, 2009 @ 5:48 am [...]
@fasee sab….Let Fasee and Wasiq marry first then talk to KD about how
Sir….are you not married…or KD has something else in his mind…..?
@KD sarkar….There is no contradictory term in ‘Islamic Mulak’ like there is in ‘Islamic unity’.
Sir a constitutional expert of the Unwritten british constitution like myself feels that you are shutting down before the shop opening time….may I offer you diplomatic immunity or a sanctuary in the enclave….just to know why you are deserting me again and again on this….not just me but your fans must be disappointed too…!
@ wasiq
1. " Sir….are you not married…or KD has something else in his mind…..?"
I am sure Fasee is just bull shiting KD not knowing nobody can bull shit KD. KD himself is a great bull shitter. He is either bull shitting about his being married or about his mistreatment of females. The two thingies don’t and can’t go together :-)
2. " Sir a constitutional expert of the Unwritten british constitution like myself "
Wow! If this was the case why didn’t you say so before. I take back everything that I said about ‘Islami Mulak’ not being an oxymoron. From now on I shall not desert you on this or on anything else. Sir, when you are big you must talk big otherwise people will mistake you for a mediocre like I did except for your ocassional flashes of brilliance. Look at KD. He is just a mediocre and a Paindu on top of that but he talks tall and people think he is some kind of an urbane intellectual:-)
I am sure Fasee is just bull shiting……He is either bull shitting about his being married or about his mistreatment of females.
@KD sarkar……this post is now becoming a mystery for me…..how in the world can you tell that fasee sab is not married and that Ayeshashah is not your good neighbor…..
He is just a mediocre and a Paindu on top
I try never to let my ego or euphoria come in between the search of truth and education……btw,I hear that the railroad arrived in your on the top paind….how far is it from your bed….I hope it does not wake you up at 4:00 am every morning….
@ KD.
the diffrence form girls and boys
if you ask a married woman, you look like a unmarried…she wud be flattered.
if you ask married man , you look like unmarried…and he will cry on your shoulder.
if you ask a unmarried man, you look like married guy, he will think he looks more sober and mature…it will be good for hso ego
if you ask a unmarried women, you look like a married woman….she will clap ya
.
@ KD.
"I have and be as respectful to a whore as I would be to any other lady"
when a whore know you are treating her equal to a lady, she wud call you a saint.
but.
how wud a lady feel, if she gets to find out that what respect she is being given by KD, is equal to the thign he gives to a whore…???
i can all but imagine the scene.
@fasee sab….sir with all due respect I think you and KD need to read Ayeshashah’s closing comment again and again atleast fifty times aloud….
she got what she wanted not what she deserved…she will always think of us as friends…and if by any chance or an act of God we get a life anytime soon….she will be very proud of herself and Us….trust me on this…..I know them by heart!
@ Fasee
" is equal to the thign he gives to a whore…???"
Why should she mind when the respect I give to her is equal to the one I give the other.
@ Wasiq
Read her closing comments and your referenced comments thereon a few times. Can’t get to the depth of both of them.
Oh, master please wisen KD on this. At least drop a hint so that KD can speak his mind on whatever the issues are.
@KD sarkar…I am very sorry sir…can’t help you there…..atleast until you stop demanding that I get married….and accept me as I am….just as the majority of my wellwishers from the opposite sex have….
Oonvaan kee munaasibat say:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/28/world/asia/28fetish.html?_r=1&hp
Allama Balma screems : Allahu Akbar!
They seem to have picked up good location for their business :-)
Masjid kay zer-e-saia kuch kharafat chahiay
@ balma..
lol…..sir you made my day today……i was pleasntly surprised….i thought BDSM was just a westren sick phenomina……nowonder no girl apprictaes when fasee tryign to explain the pleasures driving oppurnities available in BDSM.
bythe way, did they mention one of the customers was sufi mohamad, who ordered acouple of boxes for lather straps and gag balls for buneer, as his stock is just about enough for swat only.
sir KD…i wud suggest you move to karachi as soon as uncle fazlulah place an order a much bigger order for gag balls, almsot equal the size of islamabad popluation…;)
Balma has noticed in his chhoTee see umar that most masajid in big US cities are very close to strip bars….not just bars, but strip bars.
And they don’t have khiraafaat at those strip baars, they have hoors.
Well, I guess masjid and hoor go hand in hand.
@ balma
Just a small question to clarify a minor matter. How did Balma find this out at such a tender age, during the the course of his visits to the strip bars or the mosques:-)
@ Fasee
I reckon Fazaullah is soon going to be gaged by gag balls or by gag dundas at his both ends, top and bottom.
KD,
kabhi bar kay rastay may masjid aa jaatee hai, aur kabhi masjid kay rastay may bar!
@ balma
Gar kaaby ka rukh bhee janab e mahkhana ho jay
tau sajda mara bhee laghzash e mastana ho jay
In last twenty, thirty years, we have produced a whole nation of Taliban.
for example, now everyone says allah Hafiz, in fact it was promoted on PTV during Zulmut-ul-Haq’s time. I have proposed allahnahkhwastah for the same reason:-)
Now, for last few years I have noticed that these mullah type jamatis are promoting use of Madhab instead of mazhab, Ramdan instead of ramzan etc. Today I realized that instead of simple word ‘achhaa’, we now see the word ‘ahsan’ being used. For example, ….achhaa qadam hae…..is now written as …ahsan qadam hae….. that is replacement of a simple Urdu word by an arabic word….and the list goes on…
doosri tarf khuda kee phiTkaar ho inn burgers kee aulaad per…..simple words like qalm, havai jahaz, havai aDaa, uljhan have been replaced by pen, airplane, airport, and confusion…and the list goes on.
Down with mullahs and burgers, both.
@the maggie…the three wise men of KMB….sir aap log ney ghuma phira kay BDSM talak poncha hee diya naa…..for me a trip from tariq road to saddar and back….in a mini or a couch is exactly the same…Iam sure you all will agree there is no point in wasting bucks on either!lol
@ wasiq
Brilliant idea. LOL
@ balma
From the examples quoted by you I would agree Down with the Mullah but not so much with the Bergers.
For some odd reason I have never called a pen as Qalam. Qalam brings back the memory of writing Urdu on a ‘Takhti’.
If I asked a taxi driver to take me to Havai Adda he may get confused. But if I asked him to take me to the air port he would readily understand where I want to go. Now you may call me a berger but would you call the taxi driver a berger also.
By the way not be classified as a berger please let me know what should I call a ‘taxi driver’ as and ‘railway station’ as:-)
@ wasiq
"@the maggie…the three wise men of KMB"
were you mentioning the three monkies of KMB…….
one who sees all things evil,
second who drinks all thigns evil and
third who wants to wrap burqas on all thigns evil….:D:D
@ wasiq.
"…..for me a trip from tariq road to saddar and back….in a mini or a couch is exactly the same…"
sir, technically, a trip in a van can maximum can be called a S&M not a complete BDSM…..although my last trip on PIA can fully qualify as BDSM for sure….the airhostess was uglier and older than tose german sicko domino thingies
@ balma.
my comprehensive answer to you sir, was deleted, so will respond when i land in karachi again, agar allah ne muhlat di, insa-allah…wiasy insha-khuda kabhi trend me nahe raha….so thats one thign that is non-jamti me doing…:D
@ KD
"I reckon ve Fazaullah is soon going to be gaged by gag balls or by gag dundas"
i have never come accross a gag danda to be exact….all that is in my knowledge base is some gagcorks or lids….or is that the danda you are mentioneing is actually a improvised thingy which infact is a flogging tool technicalls.
@ Fasee
"the three wise men of KMB"
Your description of the Wasiq’s three wise guys is most apt and appropriate. Full marks. LOL
KD is in a good /very good mood today….any particular reason….
fasee sab I am very sorry about the ugly PIA airhostess….Iam sure you would not believe this but I have heard a lot about them but never seem one…ever….lived very close….lucky devil that’s what you call…lol
@ wasiq
" KD is in a good /very good mood today….any particular reason…."
He was in a very good mood indeed till he read the paper and watched TV.
@KD sarkar…..I read a poem once "its dangerous to read the newspaper" can’t remember it now or the name of the poet….but the human psychology related to it made me do exactly the opposite….after reading this poem I began to read the newspapers more thoroughly and to my greatest amazement I found that at the end of the day….. because they negate everything they print… themselves….I am as clean as I have be wiped out….erased.
people who usually read the headlines only often feel the way you have pointed out.
Your description of the Wasiq’s three wise guys is most apt and appropriate. Full marks. LOL
after reading his comments from the karachi airport…..I am not sure which one suits him more….anymore….lol