An outsiders perception…

Another suggestion by one of our readers, who decided to remain annonymous.

Interesting how Karachiites seem rude to someone from Lahore [up-country in general].

True or false? what have been your experiences?

Personally though, the level of mehman-nawazi i’ve seen at some of the places i visited upcountry, is something which cannot even be considered here in karachi, like taking a day [up to a week] off from work just to take them around sight-seeing and all.. being given rooms on a moments notice and being welcomed with open arms as if your family. Even if your on a bus in lahore, and ask the conductor about where a particular place is, you can be sure there will about 50 other people eager to respond to your query.. while in karachi, 50 other people would be ready to beat u up into a pulp [for whatever reason, i may add]. Such is the difference (atleast in my opinion, your may differ, infact.. im hoping it’ll differ)

25 Comments so far

  1. Original-Anon (unregistered) on July 3rd, 2006 @ 9:39 pm

    Mansoor, I suggested it and included a link to a story in Dawn’s magazine section this Sunday which prompted this ; I guess my link disappeared :)
    I’ll try again: http://www.dawn.com/weekly/dmag/dmag7.htm


  2. Mansoor 'Manny' Siddiqui (unregistered) on July 3rd, 2006 @ 10:04 pm

    False!

    We are discussing a rather narrow or limited context ( menman-nawazi ) to decide whether or not the Karachiites are menman-nawaz and/or rude; I think we have to look at it in a broader context.

    I personally think that it’s not right to generalize this rule that Karachiites are rude towards people from Lahore (or any other place for that matter).

    There could be many ways of “being rude to someone”:

    For example, as you mentioned, if someone does not do mehman-nawazi that means that person is rude towards guests.

    Some people just can’t tolerate a particular ethnicity, that’s why the become rude towards those people

    We have to look @ the reasons why a person becomes rude.

    What could be the reasons that a person is not mehman-nawaz? May be he can’t afford to host someone, or may be he is living in a small house which can barely accommodate his own family, or may be he is on a tight schedule on job that’s why he could not take off from work for mehman-nawazi, etc.

    I believe this could happen with anyone in any part of the world and is not necessarily related to Karachiites.

    If using derogatory words like “dug-gay” for people from Punjab is rude and makes one less mehman-nawaz, then how about when people from Lahore call a Karachiite a “bhayya”? would not that be considered rude?

    As far as the comments that one would be able to find 50 people to help in Lahore but other 50 people would beat someone up in Karachi is concerned, I don’t think that is right. Karachiites are definitely not that bad! People might not answer your question or might just say “I don’t know” but for sure they would not beat you up for that.

    As a side note, I ask people from Lahore to be in the shoes of people from Karachi and then compare! In contrast to Lahore (or any other part of the country), Karachi has been facing the following issues:

    A real cosmopolitan city that welcomes everyone from every corner of the country (in fact every corner of the sub-continent).

    Soaring prices.

    Strikes

    Playground for our politicians to flex their muscles, which results in the bad law-and-order situation

    12-20 hours of load shading

    Lack of water

    Less budget for city development projects and facilities (How many govt. funded parks exist in karachi?)

    Very few jobs for local people. Quota system that directly affects the people of Karachi (most of the jobs are occupied by non-Karachiites), which ofcourse results in frustration towards those people.

    Considering the issues faced by Karachiites, I believe that Karachiites are at least as friendly as other people from the country or may be more (because other people don’t face what Karachiites face)


  3. Alam (unregistered) on July 3rd, 2006 @ 10:35 pm

    The worst kind of racist elements r in Panjab and Lahore.

    Karachi is cosmopolitan city, and we have seen all kinds of people with different language and backgrounds everywhere. Racisim is in Karachi, but not to that extent as in Lahore. The panjabi army has invaded Balochistan and Sindh several times, and we have not see even a whimp of protest from Lahore. Their newspapers project Balochis and Sindhis as poor and uncivilized ppl who need a course of civilization from Army.

    Shame on these asholes !


  4. UnholySaint (unregistered) on July 3rd, 2006 @ 10:53 pm

    Alam lashes out at other races, giving no references at all. I have been to Lahore and Quetta, and Mansoor your observation reminded me how ppl would literally gather around you to see if they can help you with direction or advice. I recall once a police walked 2 blocks to show me the post office. My dad’s business partner’s cousin gave us his car and his chauffeur for 1 full week. They were so generous that it was almost uncomfortable.

    I dont know why Karachi is different. But I see the similarity of Karachi with New York and Lahore with Atlanta. Ppl in NY are RUDE!! But thats what NY is famous for! lol. You’ll hear “Have a nice day, now fvck off a$$hole!” I dont know why its like that. But oddly it adds to the charm, a notorious charm..lol


  5. Poo Poo Head (unregistered) on July 3rd, 2006 @ 11:30 pm

    I am not sure is it just my personal observation but I have a lot of friends here from lahore and they will always be the first to point out “tum karachi walay” I have not seen any Karachite saying “tum lahore walay”[some sort of complex of lahore it sounds]. Besides people of Karachi would be more honest/fair lahories would always favor Lahoris when there is a dispute with some Karachite irrespective of details. But all are not same, I have many good friends here from lahore too. Karachi is more liberal, more rationale I believe and with rationale, it’s just not possible to take one week off just for serving your guests. Thats stupidity. So simple.


  6. verysmart (unregistered) on July 4th, 2006 @ 12:15 am

    Alam.. hang on, I have been to places in Pakistan you might have never heard about, I have been to all over punjab, nearly till the afghan border in NWFP, other than Naran the entire Northern Areas, upto Qilla Saifullah, Quetta, Loralai, Ziarat, Zhob and Dera Jamali in Balochistan and soem areas of sindh…The point is… I have found us the karachiites as the most racist idiots, I am a true third generation mohajir and I can assure you all i have experienced the most racism among ourselves.

    Try this for example, if your grandparents are from India lets say Utter Pardesh State, try and tell them that you like a girl whose family is from bihar or maybe from soem other place…. I tell the most probable response they might tell you that they may suffer from a heart attack hearing this and shame on you to choose such a girl, “coz these people can not be trusted and they are utterly low-life”

    If you tell them that girl is from punjab or NWFP they might aswell really do have a heart attack!!!

    SO my friend we are known as Racists and thats how English ruled upon us. SO Shame Upon us really.

    Realizing our problem mayb the very first step towards its solution


  7. Jamash (unregistered) on July 4th, 2006 @ 1:06 am

    I think people have just learned to be careful here because Karachi is huge and there are all sorts of people here i.e Good, bad, Murders ‘n’ crooks, …..

    @ ALAM: I would really disagree with you, I have been to Punjab and I found no racial discriminations there, they are very loving and simple people, and if you will tell them that you are visiting them from Karachi they will surely give you a warm welcome. Also to clarify that I am not originated from Punjab, and I am Extremely Against ANY sort of Racial Discrimination.

    @ verysmart: I totally agree, they divided us to rule over the Indian Subcontinent.

    It’s time we take a lesson from our History.


  8. SWA (unregistered) on July 4th, 2006 @ 1:07 am

    I think the level of competition and struggle to survive is generally high in Karachi, that is why everybody is just looking to cover their own a$$. In Lahore and other Pakistani cities, life is very slow paced and easy going, that is why they seem soft-spoken to us Karachiites, and we seem rude to them.


  9. Ahmed (unregistered) on July 4th, 2006 @ 1:11 am

    Well karachi does have its racist elements but that should not be taken as a generalization like check this thread here on Lahore Metblog http://lahore.metblogs.com/archives/2006/06/telenor_talksha.phtml. The blogger says that he doesnt like this particular telenor ad since its too Karachish. Dont you think that is racist?

    Once I was in lahore for this software competition and they were really good hosts and there were these students from faisalabad who were telling us that our urdu accent was funny and they have a much better accent than us.

    In chicago, I was looking for a house to rent for the first year and I came across a pakistani couple who were willing to rent their house and the first thing they asked me after I told them that I am from Pakistan … “Kiya aap ka taaluq punjab sae hae?” and I was like what difference does it make I am from karachi I am from pakistan. They were a bit ashamed and said that we are Pakistanis and muslims and we shouldnt talk about ethnicity and race. But they had said what they wanted. So racisim does exist … everywhere


  10. Acha Bacha (unregistered) on July 4th, 2006 @ 1:17 am

    Verysmart
    my friend i am mohajir too but dear you have been to only pakistan i have crossed continent and noticed that this racism is every where, white still hates black they never let them come to managment postions, Frech dont like to speak english, lation people dont want to learn enlish as well, they will always favour their people
    and even inside punjab they they guy from gujrat dont like the one from lahore or the one form jehlum will have some problem from Multani Blood
    so this is the way it is dear it is my personal experience, i am chicago and we have a diverse pakistani community (Punjabi baloch phathan sindhi muhajir sariyeki you name it ) here so i am not making up all this what the fact is


  11. Jamash (unregistered) on July 4th, 2006 @ 1:26 am

    @ Ahmed: a few people cant represent the whole masses, Punjab has a rich culture, they have great love stories like sasi panoo and heer rangha .. And Being Punjabi is celebrated and boasted about not only in Pakistan but also in India, it does not mean that they hate all others.
    And as far as the Telenor TVC is concerned, I think it is really Karachish because you will not find that sorta culture anywhere in Pakistan and no it is not racialism it is just a cultural difference.


  12. ahmed (unregistered) on July 4th, 2006 @ 1:39 am

    @Jamash
    Please tell me how would you then define racism

    and yes I agree that one person alone cannot represent the masses thats what I said. But still I would say racism is everywhere everplace in every nation


  13. danny (unregistered) on July 4th, 2006 @ 2:14 am

    Coming back to the original topic of the post: I think rudeness or politeness is a city vs. rural issue. Urban people are generally not as polite as those from rural areas — this is a worldwide phenomenen. Small town/rural folk are just more friendly since they come from a tight community where everyone knows everyone else and they trust them. As a result small town people are more welcoming to other people.

    On the other hand, urban stress and tension results in people living in urban areas to be short-tempered and think mainly about themselves. Also since crime is higher in urban areas, people are usually wary of others and not as trusting of strangers.

    I’ve observed this the world over.


  14. verysmart (unregistered) on July 4th, 2006 @ 2:23 am

    @Acha Bacha.. dear you are totally right, I live in Cardiff, Wales, worked in Hong Kong, and Dubai for a while, and i too have found racist attitudes, in all societies.

    But the alarming situation is; People of Karachi are the offsprings of those who were mostly educated upto even univeristy levels, and still are more educated than the rest of Paksitan, and yet we this sickining tendency of stereotyping people.

    Alam wrote the word PUNJABI ARMY, it really hurt me, i must point to ALAM that Punjabi work hard to get in army, i have came across kids who are trained from their 10th grade to get into army, they do harsh physical exercises for almost 2 years before taking the ISSB exam, and shall definitely pass it.

    On the other hand, we the karachiites, if one of ours go into ISSB, thinking that he has a GOD given right to be induced in the Pakistani Armed Forces, usually do make up this excuse of “Punjabism in Army” when they, in their utter shock learn that they have been rejected after the first physical training exam. Then ever so dishearted families of these peoepl make comments liek these.. “oh u know our son is a bright kid, but they only take Punjabis”

    Learn this, Armed forces jobs are the most difficult still in this country, if u get to become a “Major”, that draws less than Rs.10,000 and one may wait upto 6 years, the free house that is given by the army is not at all furnished, and if you are stationed in one city for 2 years, consider it a miracle, coz u never knwo wheen wil you be moved to Neelam Valley, away from your wife and kids and to face indian Mortar attacks from across the border sitting in a ditch for upto 10 days…

    Can we do this job??? do we have the ability and valour to perform these acts? can we sacrifice our careers and nice houses and families and even our lives for a pay of Rs.10,000????

    If you disagree try and ask your parents if they are going to wed their daughter to an air force pilot? the answer will surely be a NO WAY, coz they know that an armed forces guy can die any day.

    Think about the mothers who have the heart of sending her kids to the borders….

    Think again.. its easier said than done.

    Army has punjabis and Pathaans, because we the karachiites choose to send our kids to shinny univeristies and made them opt for glossy careers such as engineers and doctors… its the punjabi kid that is left to bite dust for his country in event of an emergency


  15. Wahidi (unregistered) on July 4th, 2006 @ 2:59 am

    @verysmart..
    i agree with u on the “wheen wil you be moved to Neelam Valley”…..issue….
    but i certainly do not agree with u on the 10000rs pay thing…..tell me something….has any army guy ever scene an electricity bill?….or a phone bill?….or mayb….paid for his hair cut…or laundry, or car, or for the 3 1000sq yard pieces of land, each approx > 50 lacs, he gets on his retirement??….(and im speaking abt positions above major here)
    i do not disagree with u on the fact that its a dangerous job, and i personally think that they do deserve it all above…..but kindly do not use the rs10000 they get evry month as a reason for the difficulties they face!…they dont face ne problems financially and yeah….in my personal opinion…..financially speaking….joining the army is the best job at present in Pakistan…


  16. Poo Poo Head (unregistered) on July 4th, 2006 @ 3:11 am

    Ha Ha Ha .. Punjabis work hard to get in army , thats the most funniest comment I have ever read here .. I was in forces school and I have seen all hostel life etc there. Being Muhajir there is just a gali. You would listen to so many times that Muhajir are so “nazuk” for them and there is no place for them in forces. VerySmart, get your facts straight. So many of my school friends are in Army/Air force and “Majors” do get more than 25k+ easily. And one more thing no one has forced Punjabis to go to army, this is their OWN choice so please dont portrait them as the one who is doing sacrifices. What ever you have said is too sissy. Bring facts please.


  17. verysmart (unregistered) on July 4th, 2006 @ 3:28 am

    Dear Wahidi,
    Facts…
    How many peopel do you think really get to proceed above the major ranks, and how many really do becoem colnels and brigadiers?

    YOu are mixing up a lot of things, I said Major, which meant a roughly 7-8 years of job experience. Peopel who do get to become colnels or above get these fancy things.

    The total Pakistani Army size is around 600,000 men, are you suggesting that these out of 150 millions 600,000 men not paying their utility bills is the reason of our economic woes? Pakistan armed forces are just 0.4% of the entire population.

    Now here is a story, i have a friend in army, a major, he and his wife live in malir cantt, she is a MS computer science and teaches at a univeristy. The wife is a daughter of a Retired Navy Commander who is a well decorated war hero of both 1965 war and 1971 war. That Navy commander lives in NORE in clifton, every weekend the daughter (wife of my friend) travels from malir cantt to Clifton to meet her parents changing two buses, and in the evening my friend travels through the same route on buses go all the way to clifton to have dinner with his inlaws and to accompany his wife back home. They saved money for upto two years to enable themselves to buy a second hand Alto, recently. My friend used to tell me; “Yaar raat ko clifton se wapsi per bus mai woh beechari thaak ker meray kaandhaay pe ser rakh ke soo jati hai tu mujhay buht sharmindagi hoti hay ke mai uskay liye aik choti si garii bhi nahi le sakta!”

    I learned all his house budget through him, and let me tell you my friend it aint as sweet as u think it maybe

    Luring the men through “no utility bills” and the dream of free houses and plots, is only there because otherwise no one will even think about goign to armed forces. The people who rise in ranks to enjoy most of this stuff is not more than mere 40,000.

    Armed forces jobs are the best jobs, is a
    very tentative statement, it is definitely the most lucrative job for soemone coming from a peasent family or may b from pind dadan khan.

    After reading my friend’s story will you still fancy to join the ranks??


  18. verysmart (unregistered) on July 4th, 2006 @ 3:33 am

    dear Poo Poo head

    the fact taht u had all ur life in hostel and still hasnt been able to get into forces, suggest that there is soem sissy elecment is you..,
    may b either u proved to be that nazuk or u just freaked out of the thought of getting into army.

    I am talking abt basic salary, i havent included stuff like house rents and education expense for kids and utlity expense and travel expense.

    Since the money they get in their hands is very slightly more than a 10K.. and I think thats what counts at the end of the day… how mush wealth you can accumulate


  19. Alam (unregistered) on July 4th, 2006 @ 3:45 am

    verysmart, and others

    I (a mohajir) am happily married to a Panjabi girl who was born and raised in Lahore. My parents opposed this marriage to some extent, but then they were happy for me….So dont call me racist.

    I have been to many places in Panjab too. These ppl think Pakistan starts and ends within Panjab. Everyone else is either with Afghainustan or India. The most illietrate and jahil ppl, keep proding on army to invade other cities and provinces in Pak.


  20. verysmart (unregistered) on July 4th, 2006 @ 3:46 am

    By the way Dear POO POO HEAD, since your screen name suggests your choices in life…

    Will you mind telling us how much money shall I offer you and get you a deal that there is a 80% chance that you might face shelling on fronts from hostile enemy fire…. You know what a shell look likes, and wht does it do when it explodes??? it has loads of small explosives which are rich with razor sharped sharpnels, upon explosion these sharpnels travels at a speed of about 500 miles an hour upto nearly a distance of 200 meters, and they even cut bones of men who are in ditches….leaving them without limbs for the rest of their lives if they are lucky enough to survive.

    get the idea… ??? now if u are still nazuk enough to go their and face such music, try and be appreciative of men who has the heart of doing soo.

    How about if you are offered around Rs. 5 millions for this job????
    any takers???


  21. Mansoor 'Manny' Siddiqui (unregistered) on July 4th, 2006 @ 3:50 am

    Mansoor and other KMB authors,
    I submitted a message to this post right after the message from Original-Anon but since then many messages have been posted except mine!

    Why my messages are not being posted? are you guys blocking my messages? If so, could you give me a valid reason for blocking my messages?

    Please stop abusing your powers!!!!!


  22. verysmart (unregistered) on July 4th, 2006 @ 4:04 am

    DEar Masoor,
    Sorry for turning your post into a waaaay different topic, but I guess its about time we realize that how easy it to be sarcastic rather then to be realistic and understanding.


  23. Poo Poo Head (unregistered) on July 4th, 2006 @ 4:45 am

    Very Smart: Any thing that you do by your choice should not earn you “extra” credit and the story of your friend is one out of 100 cases. When was the last time this army was in war. All these officers sit in war rooms and just plan to get involved in war. Do you know the cost of one F-16 ??

    If they pay me 5 million for signing treaty as Gen. Niazi , I would be glad to take that position. By the way don’t get too emotional. This Army is not good as it seems believe me.


  24. Zain (unregistered) on July 4th, 2006 @ 9:31 am

    What a waste of KMB space :)


  25. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on July 4th, 2006 @ 9:49 am


    Shabash!Its amazing how bunch of retards talking crap about Karachi and Karchiites and its all due to some knee jerk lahori who _God_knows_reason is pissed so much at Karachi

    Lets assume that people of karachi are rude then why do you guys from other part of Pakistan come here and do business and settle here?Hundreds and thousands of people from ther part come karachi every year for sake of job and business and send money back to *Home*.If karachiites are rude and racist and none of them would buy any stuff from shop of any punjabi or pathan.I really dont give a damn what some retard think about Karachi when i see my city generates most of revenue,feeds other part of the country,the city which have more tax payers than any part of Pakistan and the city which came forward first to help Earthquake victims.


    punjab has a rich culture, they have great love stories

    This is the most stupid comment i have ever read on this blog or heard in real life.

    @Jamash:do you feel proud on those shitty love stories?LOL,FYI Sassi panu doesnt belong to punjab and AFAIK its a sindhi story and i know none of sindhi feel proud on such lame and fake stories.Sindh has great proud ‘The Indus civilization’ which is the oldest civilization on earth,we have many other things to feel proud.

    Punjab/Lahore culture can be described in few points. 1)Basant 2)Lollywood 3)Dimond Market(heera mandi) 4)Murgh Cholay.There is nothing else that should i see good in culture of punjab and you cant deny these things dont exist.

    Speaking of telenor ad,funny,should I need to inform you that both Ali zafar and Sonia Jehan are actually Lahoris?

    Last but not least,all retards who are talking crap about Karachi should visit the following website



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