Introducing…. Hamza

Not excatly a newborn annoucement, but could be construed as one.

Hamza is the latest Agosta class submarine (the last of the three) to be inducted in the Pakistan Navy with help from the french company DCN International as part of the technology transfer agreement.

So why is Hamza different than the other two? Because Hamza has the distinction of being the only submarine in the fleet (and in the world) of having the tag “Made In Pakistan” on it! It is the realization of Pakistan Navy’s dream to become self-reliant on indeginous resources rather than importing everything from abroad.

hamza.jpg

The first two submarines were Khalid (built entirely in france) and Saad (built partially in france and partially in pakistan).

This brings all three forces into the realm of manufactoring their own machines, following Khaled Tank (army) and the JF17 fighter jet (Air Force).

In the news: Geo News

46 Comments so far

  1. Tee Emm (unregistered) on August 11th, 2006 @ 2:45 pm

    Any guess when can Pakistan make CNG kits for itself? This (Hamza) is good news but let us remember that stuff that common man needs should be on top of the list of indigeneous production projects. True, this is not the job of the armed forces and orgs like PCSIR and Ministry of industry needs to wake up from their respective deep sleeps.

    But anyways, Good job Pakistan Navy and HMC!


  2. mansoor (unregistered) on August 11th, 2006 @ 3:02 pm

    they do need to.. yes!! especially since there’s such a big boom here. However, in order to self produce such stuff commercially, they have to be commercially viable ($$$). If there was *any* money in it… someone would’ve started a plant up ages ago.

    On the other hand… CNG cylinders are being produced locally atleast… so thats a start.


  3. Kashif (unregistered) on August 11th, 2006 @ 3:17 pm

    We have got our Hamza 5 months back :)


  4. IllusionFS (unregistered) on August 11th, 2006 @ 3:24 pm

    Made in Pakistan, sounds more like ‘Assembled in Pakistan to me’

    But I dont think ‘Hamza’ is more important to us than books, medical facilities, safe drinking water.. housing for poor.

    lets not even start with that.
    A friend tells me that out of the 9 submarines *or ships* only two are in working condition.


  5. Cy (unregistered) on August 11th, 2006 @ 4:05 pm

    Anything to do with Agosta ought to be mourned rather than celebrated … after all it was one of the single most corrupt purchases in Pakistan’s history.


  6. mansoor (unregistered) on August 11th, 2006 @ 4:16 pm

    kashif: congratulations :)

    illusionFS: these are two different branches of govt purchase.. like Tee pointed out, “this is not the job of the armed forces” literacy and health come under different departments which have their own corrupt personnel

    cy: mourned? i agree it was corrupt, but unlike a lot of other purchases, this one actually came through! i still say celebrate it.

    On a side note…. to all the military bashers out there: The statement released by the Air Chief Marshal a couple of days back regarding the situation in Lebanon and consequently highlighting the military capability does hit the mark home. These expenses do seem like excess when related to other public spending areas, however, they are just as necessary (if not more so). Recent world events have shown that having both, diplomatic and military strength are key to a nations survival (ref to afghanistan, iraq, lebanon, iran, n. korea and israel) and without survival, there is no use of public spending.

    Lebanon spent millions (if not billions) on uplift programs after emerging from the Civil war, to the point where it started having a very vibrant economy and culture. Just take a look what has happened to it now……….

    Oh, and please dont take the line “They had hizbola do it to them”, Israel came into lebanon for the only fact that it “could” and lebanon could not defend itself.


  7. yo yo (unregistered) on August 11th, 2006 @ 4:26 pm

    Agosta was under a transfer of technology project. The French have given Pakistan license to built these babies from scratch. GOOD JOB PAK NAVY. I hope people realize how many military and civillian jobs these projects create.


  8. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on August 11th, 2006 @ 5:01 pm


    Oh, and please dont take the line “They had hizbola do it to them”, Israel came into lebanon for the only fact that it “could” and lebanon could not defend itself.

    Fine,no one would disagree but if we go an year back when earthquake hit Pakistan.The same army coudnt take prompt action to rescue the victims due to absence of necessary equipments.


  9. mansoor (unregistered) on August 11th, 2006 @ 5:06 pm

    Adnan: Where is it written that the Army is supposed to be prepared for relief work? In case you’ve forgotten, it was the efforts of the army that whatever relief efforts were mounted did become succesful. It was the army which restored all communication routes (roads, bridges etc) and it was the army which was at the forefront of coordinating the relief effort. Most of the other organizations mounted their relief operations on the backbone of the army infrastructure (rem PAF Museum in Karachi?).

    I believe this is the bane of our society: Its very easy to badmouth someone.. but very hard to appreciate what they’ve actually done for you.


  10. Kashif (unregistered) on August 11th, 2006 @ 5:19 pm

    thanks Mansoor


  11. Concerned (unregistered) on August 11th, 2006 @ 6:15 pm

    Very well said Mansoor. I totally agree with you.


  12. blackzero (unregistered) on August 11th, 2006 @ 8:24 pm

    Anyone wonder why they named them Hamza, khalid and Saad?? Anyone want to guess? :)


  13. mansoor (unregistered) on August 11th, 2006 @ 10:09 pm

    concerned: thanks

    blackzero: i dont know about hamza, but khalid and saad were named probably after the great muslim warriors of the past. Thats the usual naming convention :D

    any other ideas blackzero?


  14. YO YO (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 12:01 am

    Mansoor I am not sure where you were educated..but HAMZA sounds very much like great warrior and one of the first people to accept islam…RING ANY BELLS…lol


  15. mansoor (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 12:57 am

    yo yo: a momentary lapse of memory i assure you :) LoL!


  16. kidal (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 1:07 am

    -Hamza was one of the uncles of the Prophet
    -Known for his bravery and called “lion hunter” because he used to actually hunt lions!
    -One of the early converts to Islam, and owing to his noble lineage was one of the protectors of the Prophet
    -Killed by Wahshi, the Abyssinian slave hired by Hind at the Battle of Uhud. Hind reportedly took a bite of his liver because of her hatred towards him (I think he had killed her father)
    -One of the main characters in the movie “The Message” played by Anthony Quinn

    Khalid most likely refers to Khalid bin Waleed. Saad probably refers to Saad bin abi Waqqas, another early convert, companion and uncle of the Prophet.


  17. anwar (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 1:28 am

    @IllusionFS “But I dont think ‘Hamza’ is more important to us than books, medical facilities, safe drinking water.. housing for poor.”

    Good point IFS, As long as we keep worshipping and giving importance to their “armed forces” toys they will keep justifying ruling and monetarily robbing us like the last 50+ years.


  18. mansoor (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 1:44 am

    anwar: for goodness sake OPEN YOUR EYES!!!! “keep justifying ruling and monetarily robbing us like the last 50+ years” i dont rem any military leader having estates and foreign bank accounts greater than the total fiscal debt of the country!!!! these are the people due to whom you still carry the nametag “Pakistani” which ‘others’ have done their utmost to destroy!

    Musharrafs govt. has done more good to the future sustainance of this country than all other govts. done since independence! The systems in place are providing for the necessary checks and balances (maybe slowly.. but they’re emerging) to ensure the govt. machinery runs smoothly and above all.. for the benefit of the people!


  19. UnholySaint (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 11:45 am

    werd with Mansoor about the Lebanon issue. National security is more important than the dinner of a common man. Common man was doing good in Lebanon too but that didnt help much when a foreign force breached the border.
    Plus, spending money on defense allows youth and Graduates to apply and use their knowledge to gain experience. Money isnt destroyed but it trickles down IF IT IS SPENT EFFICIENTLY.


  20. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 12:13 pm


    Adnan: Where is it written that the Army is supposed to be prepared for relief work?

    No where but in absence of civil defence,ARMY has to come to fill the vacuum.You should remember the time it took rescute teams near maraglla towers(am i right?) in ISB

    In case you’ve forgotten……
    It was the army …

    sorry to brust your bubble but it was not army’s 100% work to rescute the victims.Like it or not but same Mujahidins which our so called liberals reember as “Terrorists” and “Militants” used asses and chariot to transfer Aid material on mountains where even a Pak ARmy chop was unable to land.
    Even Musharrf praised their efforts and papers of tht time are proof of what I am taking about.

    So it would be not fair to credit army only.You talk about PAF,again its pretty unjustice to credit army only.I would give full credit to Fakhar Alam’s effort and karachiites who spent days and night to help their brothers.


  21. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 12:19 pm


    i dont rem any military leader having estates and foreign bank accounts greater than the total fiscal debt of the country!!!

    Either you are son of some army official who does not like to listen anything against *saint* army or you believe that you know everything.

    You dont hear anything against army because Army is not accountable to any current civil laws.Army of Pakistan is like God Father’s company.Its pretty bullshit to consider Army of Pakistan is saint.

    Do you favor that most of our budget should be spent on Army rather on poverty and education?Look what same army did in 71’s and 99’s war against India,nothing.How can you expect something good from same army in future.There is corruption in army which can’t be denied at all.


  22. mansoor (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 12:57 pm

    adnan: as much as i enjoy your debates (NOT) i think you have something against people of the military. Agreed, ppl of the military do pull their weight around, and get to enjoy ‘benefits’ but its not for nothing. Most of the people who get to senior ranks, do so after going though a very rigorous time, spending their whole lives in it. Not everyone makes the cut. However, Civilians (read bearucrats) pull even more weight and ride on their petty power trips. A trip to most (thankfully the number is reducing) govt. officials offices will confirm this.

    anyway, back to your world… but in absence of civil defence,ARMY has to come to fill the vacuum has to? Who now is citing their ‘dependence’ on the army?

    on the quake issue, i wrote “on the backbone of the army infrastructure”.. not “army did it all”. Please try to discern the difference between the two sentences. Please tell me.. how much did the army charge for carry each load of relief material from karachi? Now compare that amount with what ‘civilians’ were charging? how their rates varied from Oct 8th to Oct 15th?

    And lastly.. on the spending issue…. the army budget has increased… but have u noticed that the overall budget of the COUNTRY has also increased?! we’re reporting a budget in trillions now… the share of Army in the overall budget this year has actually decreased (to 37%). As for your question… read unholysaint’s comment. My answer is the same as that.


  23. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 1:31 pm

    It Doesnt matter me Mansoor you enjoy or not.I don’t post here to please other readers or *authors* of this metroblog(You know well I am targetting you) regardless it is appropiate or not.I rather give my opinion on the basis of things I experience in daily life.

    Certainly I am against anything which could be harmful for me or for the state I live.Whether they are part of Army or Civil service.Offcourse its us who gave some angelic status to Pakistan Army by not discussing the corruption lie among them.Even you are not disagreeing with me completely.


    Most of the people who get to senior ranks, do so after going though a very rigorous time, spending their whole lives in it.

    This was never motive of Pakistan Army.People in every field go thru various hurdles.Why dont they enjoy same benefits?Your point is pretty biased towards Army.


    Civilians (read bearucrats) pull even more weight and ride on their petty power trips

    Though I belong to none of the group but would like to know the stats/source which forced you to comeup with this statment,without that I am not gonna take notice you.


    Who now is citing their ‘dependence’ on the army?

    Dependence?Were they given millions of dollars to spend on their families and parties or to help people of the country?How many War Pakistan has fought since 71,99 war was not a typical conventional war therefore I woudn;t count on that.Whre the million dollars go which are allocated to Army?did you ever bother to find out rather singing praises of Pakistan Army?Get real!

    Air Chielf marshal’s *good words* can just please us for a while but when we see India and US aroud us,do you think Pakistan Army would be capable to move forward in pace?And as I said earlier,after 65,Pakistan army didnt show some good results at all so one just believe blindly in army is actually living in fools paradise.


    he army budget has increased… but have u noticed that the overall budget of the COUNTRY has also increased

    I have read this statment millions time by Musharraf and his buddies.This doesn justify that Pakistan Army is above the Pakistani Law.You didnt answer my question;do you think Pakistan army shoudnt be accountable according to Pakistan law?Do they have right to spend whereever they want?

    What i see the education budget is decreased and same lame excuse was given by fedral minister that overall budget size is increased therefore the percentage doesn’t matter at all.


    how much did the army charge for carry each load of relief material from karachi? Now compare that amount with what ‘civilians’ were charging?

    Again sorry to brust your bubble,the initiative was taken by Fakhar,a civilian rather an army person.If there was no fakhar ,we were not going to help people so effectively.second private planes were initially arranged by Salman Iqbal of ARY and he was ringing here and there to arrange fuel.You are being extremely biased towards Army while I am rather giving credit to civilians and those fighters as well who took a great part to help in that disaster.Again Pakistan Army is not saint.See the neighbor country even made a film against their Air Force corruption and none of their people went crazy against the movie.Do you think our Army is more pious than Indians? Come out from Khuwaboun ki dunya bhai!


  24. Umer Zaman (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 1:50 pm

    Adnan: you love the burst the bubble..
    well i was amongst the first volunteers of United Pakistan (Fakhr-e-Alam), was monitoring the whole operation in islamabad and then Chatta batta camp, still am maintaining there website

    http://www.unitedpakistan.org

    Yes we did alot of work, but ARMY did more then alot for us as well as the country..

    Some things are not mentioned officially because of security reasons, you have no clue how many Army soldiers died in the earth quake.. ARMY sure followed there own procedure and seriosly they were much better off in the long run..

    I met pretty much all the high officials who were looking after relief operations by the govt. as well as ARMY and they sure worked hard..

    About the mujahidin part, dude.. get a life.. i didnt come across any through out my 4 months stay there.. it was more of students/doctors and just normal ordinary ppl who were helping more then they were expected to..


  25. Umer Zaman (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 1:51 pm

    Correction:

    Adnan: you love to burst the bubble..


  26. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 2:18 pm

    Umar because I am chewing bubble gum at the moment.


    About the mujahidin part, dude.. get a life.. i didnt come across any through out my 4 months stay there

    Right!! so Mushrraf and papers were lying.By the way did your students climb the dangeours and highest site of the affected area?Keep in mind,there was a big region which was affected by the EQ.Are you claiming that you reached to each part of that affected area?


  27. mansoor (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 2:25 pm

    umer: thanks buddy! u just saved me from typing a whole lot :p

    adnan: one point i would like to clarify further.. Pakistan army shoudnt be accountable according to Pakistan law?Do they have right to spend whereever they want? do you have any idea how the accounts of the military are looked after? Who controls the paychecks and other expenditures? The post CMA (Controller Military Accounts) and his whole department is run by CIVILIANS! The same is true for naval and air force accounts… Now you ask me what are my source of info about petty power trips.. its the offices of the CMA and CNA. Where you have to give a bribe of 20% to retrieve a payment which is rightfully yours. My source is the office of the MoD (Ministry of Defence) where a Brigadier is made to wait an hour outside the office of a grade 12 officer to get his file moved, just because the bearucrat felt like doodling.

    The military may be many things…. but it is also controlled and regulated and above all DISCIPLINED!


  28. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 2:38 pm

    Umer Zaman it didn’t take more than 2 mins to find out newslinks to refute your claim.

    Link 1

    Link 2

    From above link:

    By accepting a major role for banned militant groups in humanitarian relief efforts, the Pakistani government’s policies are helping “Islamist radicals” to bolster their presence in the earthquake-affected areas, according to the ICG.

    Read below!

    Reacting to the criticism, President Musharraf has been quoted as saying: “If we see any single activity of their involvement in anything other than welfare, we are not only going to ban them but we are going to get them out.”


    “We are not talking about some unknowns. They are listed terrorist groups. Let’s make a distinction here between terrorism and humanitarianism,” said Ahmed.

    So why one belivees in your words that you were actually over *there* ? =)


  29. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 2:49 pm

    Mansoor lets agree to disagree.Regardless of 180 degree differences in our point of views,your opinion is respected but its just coincidence that you and me blong to same state where National assembly raised the issue of discussing the Budget of Pakistan Army which is never discussed.Offcourse you missed the entire point in emotions but whoever agencies you mentioned audit the budget,never revealed the percentage of military budget spent on non military activities.If it/has been dicussed then would love to learn more that how our military budget is utilised.Before you go to shoot me by saying that *senstive things* can’t be discussed,I am not talking about that.You and me both know that not entire amount of military budget is used to buy/build weapons.I have cleared my point of view.There is corruption,a serious one with in Pakistan Army.The “Jawans” at border are not supported well enough and most of the amount is actually spent on the welfare of Buddhay Generals and Brigds and their families And I dont need to repeat to add emphasis on my statment.

    How much part of Karachi actually controlled by the local govt?


  30. mansoor (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 2:59 pm

    Agreeing to disagree would be the best course of action for us.

    Its a shame really… i did think you would understand national defence, but since you dont…..

    anyway, ‘sensitive stuff’ is very much a part of the reality we live in. There are hundreds of military installations which require money to run. There are hundreds of ‘secret’ military projects which need to be funded. Thousands of families to support… the military is a whole community within itself.

    Regarding your statement about ‘buddha generals’.. im really at a loss as to how to explain this to you. So i will not even try, seeing how pointless this discussion would be. Suffice to say, many of the ‘buddha generals’ survive on their own income sources and if they are extended the courtesy of the military, it is due to the respect they still carry within the service!

    Im sorry to see YET another member of the public (u) succumb to the political propoganda of ‘army is bad because they dont let us funnel money to send our kids abroad‘ One day you might wake up and smell the burning wreckage and realize… “if only the army was funded….”


  31. mansoor (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 3:02 pm

    By the way… since the bashing did begin on Hamza… did anyone realize how many jobs will a ‘submarine construction business’ open up in Pakistan? Its not a one man or even a hundred man job.. there are thousands of parts needed (and ppl to make them) which are from local sources… there are hundreds of ppl needed to actually create the submarines… not to mention the number of ancillary industries it would setup in/around dockyard.


  32. mansoor (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 3:03 pm

    which brings me to the Heavy Machine Complex in Taxila… how many jobs has the Khaled tank created? Any idea? any figures?? How many scientists are employed by Kahuta Labs? (hence reducing brain drain just a notch).

    Know anyone who graduated from GIK institute? Do you think there would even BE GIKI if kahuta wasnt there?

    Need i continue?


  33. mansoor (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 3:07 pm

    now that you’ve got me started… how many world class doctors do we have because of Army Medical College? World Class engineers by PNEC (PNS Jauhar Enginnering College)? National University of Science and Technology? And these are just the start….. incase you didnt notice… its takes MONEY to run these places and all of them are heavily funded by the military as well. Who do you think gets the benefit?


  34. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 3:12 pm


    Its a shame really… i did think you would understand national defence, but since you dont…..

    I don’t care if you treat me as a *traitor*.The real shame is that you are backinup the corruption of your *mighty army* and preaching to bow infront of them regardless of whatever they do which offcourse I dont accept at all.Atone side you make posts after posts to identify evils in civil insititutions while on other hand you are hiding the evil of an institution which is supposed to be rock solid for better security.You might consider *General Niazi* you hero?Who knows?

    The buddha general curse is way lighter than *mullah* curse used by lunatic readers of this forum.


    Im sorry to see YET another member of the public (u) succumb to the political propoganda of ‘army is bad because they dont let us funnel money to send our kids abroad’

    Your assumption which is far from reality.I am an ordinary citizen like millions of this country which is sucked by politicians,fudals and army.


    One day you might wake up and smell the burning wreckage and realize… “if only the army was funded….

    Already mentioned;Its like living in fools’ paradise.your same mightly army gifted Bangladesh to our *mighty neighbors* and produced a historical moron in form of General Niazi and Yahya Khan.


  35. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 3:16 pm

    Dear Mansoor its good to be emotional for Army etc but its more good to be realisitic.Since when the heck I cameup with point that Army MUST NOT exist?I would certainly agree with you that lots of jobs were created by army insititues but several million other jobs were created by institutes like Pakistan Steel,KESC etc etc etc.Why so much preference to Army only?

    NUST and other acedmic institutes is funded by Pak Army budget really?I wouldnt say anything about it since right now I am not sure but would like to learn whether army acedmic institutes take fee from students?do students at NUST and GIK get free of cost education?


  36. mansoor (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 3:40 pm

    adnan: traitor? when did i label you as that? your right.. your one of the millions of this country ransacked by politicians, feudals and military and are now skeptic of any/every thing! Every gift you recieve, you consider a trojan.

    Again, i am defending the Army on this forum because i genuinely see betterment around me. In the last seven years, i have seen more opinions turned around than ever before that.

    The bangladesh episode was tragic! i give you that, and it may very well be due to the army leaders *then*, but then again.. you also had corresponding political leaders as well who were denying Bangladeshi’s their rights. Stripping them of their produce and giving them nothing in return (much like the baluchis claim we do to them now). However, the command has changed quite a bit since then (you may be surprised to know.. that Army positions do get rotated every couple of years, and that Army generals do not live forever)… and the new ones are quite different…


  37. mansoor (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 3:45 pm

    adnan: “do students at NUST and GIK get free of cost education?” How much money do you think it needs to create a lab? or a department? How about bringing one of the latest scientific equipment for experiments? you think those come from student fee’s?!!!!! God! im laughing so much right now!! When you were studying (please forgive me not knowing which univesity/intitute/college you went to) did you ever take a step back and think about how much these ‘facilities’ you enjoy cost? Have you ever wondered what sort of pay the teachers get? Military (and affiliated unis) are the best pay masters of the country, because they often employ high grade teachers as well. Where does the money for their paychecks come from? Ofcourse education there is not free of cost! But the funding required to setup (and maintain) these places FAR OUTSTRIP the amount paid by the students….


  38. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 3:57 pm


    adnan: traitor? when did i label you as that?

    in Pakistan anti Army==traitor.And I am taken as Anti-army(which i dont care) by you or might be others.


    are now skeptic of any/every thing! Every gift you recieve, you consider a trojan.

    Not everything but the thing which shouldnt be hidden.You are eager to paint everything with same brush while I am not.I thank for whatver I was given by the state but I would not be doing good if I keep my eyes closed like a pigeon.


    How much money do you think it needs to create a lab? or a department?

    Calm down i am not raising finger at all.I am unaware that’s why I am asking you that is it true or not because NUST and GIK charge a handsome amount from each student so there is a doubt that how a govt-funded institute ask so much fee.I will try to find it out myself.


  39. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 4:05 pm

    First of all I shouldnt be taken pro-politicians.You are an old user of this forum and you should be well aware that I never supported any political party including MQM.Being an Urdu speaking person I was a big supported of Altaf and MQM but I am not anymore.Currently I don’t support anyone and i am really puzzled that which party should be supported in 2007 election.


    (you may be surprised to know.. that Army positions do get rotated every couple of years, and that Army generals do not live forever)

    is it some new practise?How come it helps to reduce the corruption?


    Army generals do not live forever

    Kullo Nafsin Zaiqatul America .Tell me something new.(take it as joke.I got what you want to say)


    … and the new ones are quite different

    Time will tell.Right now I see history pages which tell something else about 71 and 99 kargil war:)


  40. mansoor (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 4:07 pm

    adnan: NOW i get it!! and all this time i thought you were saying this because you believed in it.. while all the time your eager to paint yourself as a rebel.

    that ends the discussion from myside… since we have agreed to disagee, you hold on to your point of view… no problem from my end.

    I suspect we’ll have our answers in a couple of years anyway on whether this govt was right in coming about or not…


  41. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 4:18 pm

    Ok fine Mansoor,if calling me rebel can declare you *victorious* and can make you happy and help to change bitter facts then I will sure seal my lips *smile*


    I suspect we’ll have our answers in a couple of years anyway on whether this govt was right in coming about or not.

    I also pray that I am proved wrong in future and next generation of ours see something pure and clean rather filthy which you and me and past generation experienced and It would erase all of agony of millions of the country Inshallah.Take care.


  42. mansoor (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 4:27 pm

    adnan: there was no victory here brother…

    p.s. incase you’ve forgotten… we ARE the next generation of this country to take up the reigns of power! U sound like a ‘buddha’ urself. LoL!! Lets start by making ourselves accountable and that way we ensure our next generation sees something pure. :)

    and lastly.. no offense :D all this was in the spirit of discussion! nothing personal haan :)


  43. Adnan Siddiqi (unregistered) on August 12th, 2006 @ 9:59 pm

    I don’t take anything personal unless it’s attacked on my family or faith.One is even allowed to say any thing bad to me.Most welcome.

    I am always accountable infront of my God and I always believe that I’m the person who have comitted most sins in the world.Sorry I always sound religous to readers while its not true.According to many I am being mullahish while its all about *nature*,remembering master automatically.Khair unless young people like you(i called you young,bura tu nahi laga??) do accept filth in each pocket of our society ,we cant give something pure to next generation.See how indians exposed the corruption in their army by making a movie.i truly admire that.Thats called democracy.here talking anything against Army can make one an *infidel*.Its a fact which I cant deny atleast.


    U sound like a ‘buddha’ urself

    yeah you are right.I am one of those who grewup under the umbrella of Zia’s Martial Law which gave birth filth like MQM,Jamat-e-Islami and Nawaz Sharif so natually i feel I have spent enough time on earth.

    and lastly.. no offense :D all this was in the spirit of discussion! nothing personal haan :)

    Take it easy yaar,there is nothing like that.There was a heated debate but I know my oponent was not some respect lady of my country who could get pissed when I discuss about matching sandals and wedding dress and start cursing in our desi style.We guys are a bit different that we hardly take things seriously on heart.Now since I am praising about guys,i should be ready to face another heat wave by women rights activists =).Please girls I am just kidding.


  44. Umer Zaman (unregistered) on August 15th, 2006 @ 6:14 pm

    sorry i was away..
    well yes, i would definately want you to believe what i m saying just because i was there and i witnessed it live =D

    News shmews, its all lies !! =D


  45. mansoor (unregistered) on August 15th, 2006 @ 6:16 pm

    go tell em umer :D


  46. wasiq (unregistered) on August 16th, 2006 @ 1:01 am

    i’ll definately read this post with all the comments very carefully …..during the winter vacations when the nights are long and dry and very less power surges and load shedding……

    GOD BLESS AMERICA



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