Rangers Posted

Rangers have been posted in the city. I have seen three trucks of Rangers near two large seminaries in Gulshan Iqbal half an hour ago. All of them seemed to be fully dressed and expecting trouble. While the mainstream religious elements have taken a diplomatic stance on the current crisis and have avoided taking any clear sides, the death of Abdul Rashid Ghazi can spark unrest. It is generally being expected that tomorrow would be a tense day with people generally observing caution in their movements and activities around the city.

36 Comments so far

  1. striekr (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 1:31 am

    GOD keep karachi safe!!!!
    idont wanna see another 12th may


  2. Balma (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 2:02 am

    About fifteen years ago, I was discussing the mushroom growth of thse so called madrassas all over Karachi, and the peson said that khud to koe achha kaam nahee kartay, aur agar koee aur kar rahaa hae toe oos kay khilaaf ho. Well, that is the problem with our society. Most people actually think that these so called madrassas are good.
    These madrassas should be immediately taken over by government, and after a cool down period and purging of jerks from their management, they should be given to be run under private co-ops…something like catholic schools… where science and maths are mandatory till 12th. Now, come to think of it all these catholic schools in KArachi are religious schools, but they do teach other things besides jesus kaisay paidaa huay!


  3. Sohail (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 2:05 am

    Govt is taking precaution by putting extra security in city, as reaction is coming out from Sawat and other part pf NWFP.
    While MMA have announced strike or mourning for two days starting from tomorrow and Banazir have supported this operation in islamabad. So again we are distributed by these politicians! I believe MQM also supported! i donno whay they wanted to impose operation on Lal Masjid though they also had seen operation in 1992, they also should condemn but not.
    To me it look like MQM may show resist against mourning or strike in karachi announced by MMA.
    Be safe Karachities!


  4. Anon. (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 2:11 am

    Nothing is going to happen tomorrow or the day after, or the day after that.

    Dont worry, be happy! Most of the maulvi’s didn’t agree with the lal masjid drama anyway and presense of Rangers is simply a “precaution”.


  5. typon (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 3:25 am

    this has nothing to do with the post but just wannas share with you guys
    on of my friend went to karachi after 1.5 years
    and sent us this email

    Finally managed to connect cybernet after 8th try. Weather is fuckin hot and no rain at all. All Girls are sun-burned to black and roads are like roller coaster. Bulk of television stations are broadcasting breaking news after each hour. i am really enjoying my trip and waiting for others to come.

    hope you enjoyed it


  6. Balma (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 3:30 am

    * All Girls are sun-burned to black

    **** Many will go to any extreme for them…meaning willing to die to get their hands at such tanned bodies!

    I just hope the person wasn’t trying to insult desi women!


  7. AllamaM (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 3:43 am

    Its time for MQM to come to action, and start bulldozing these madrassas, during MMA strike


  8. d0ct0r (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 4:13 am

    MQM’s terrorist should think about their own furture coz media is now demanding similar operation against those responsible for 12th may.. i personally don’t like army killing its own people but sooner or later this will happen in karachi too it seems…


  9. d0ct0r (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 4:22 am

    operation against MQM would be useless coz only innocent karachiites would be harrassed, real Grand terrorist Altaf bai real culprit of 12th may killing is safely sitting in London and he can’t be touched…


  10. Ahmed (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 7:37 am

    The rangers are there as a precaution. There will interesting talk around the office cubicals but I dont see suicide bombers having a field day in the city.

    Extremism of any kind is not acceptable. There is nothing wrong with practising your religion. However, to impose your own values on others is clearly a threat.


  11. IUnknown (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 12:10 pm

    things are pretty good today. I think its just a precaution taken by Shameless govt.


  12. sha (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 12:11 pm

    why not army take action against MQM 90 …biggest terrorist centre of karachi from where thousands of innocent karachities death order issued…why not govt take action coz kala nang is supporter of Mushy.


  13. ShahidnUSA (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 12:29 pm

    Well I am glad to hear that things are good.
    But :) man you guys hate your Govt. so much.
    Believe me here its no different. People hate Bush Govt. too. I saw a guy today wearing hat showing how many days left for Bush Govt. to leave office :)


  14. IUnknown (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 1:11 pm

    govt. has taken such bad steps to keep it self in rule.
    this is one of them


  15. ShahidnUSA (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 2:41 pm

    @ Ahmed “Extremism of any kind is not acceptable. There is nothing wrong with practising your religion. However, to impose your own values on others is clearly a threat”.

    I could nt agree more. Thank you


  16. Hasan Zuberi (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 2:59 pm

    @ BALMA:
    I wonder which so-called terrorist have studied in Madarsa:
    1) Osama Bin Laden – Graduated as Civil Engineer from US.
    2) Aiman ALZahwari – qualified medicine Doctor
    3) Mohammad Atta (9/11) – Graduate (Urban Planning) from Technical University of Hamburg-Harburg, Germany.
    4) Ziad Jarrah (9/11) – Aerospace Engineering from University of Applied Sciences Hamburg, Germany
    5) Shahzad Tanweer (7/7) – Graduate (Sposrts Science) from Leeds Metropolitan University.
    6) Hasib Mir Hussain (7/7) – GNVQ (Business Studies).
    7) M. Siddique Khan (7/7) – Graduate of Leeds Metropolitan University.
    8) Germaine Maurice Lindsay, aka Abdullah Shaheed Jamal (7/7) – Rawthorpe High School
    9) Abdul Rasheed Ghazi – MA (Interntaional Relations) Quaid-e-Azam University (Pakistan’s #1 viz HEC records)

    Now shouldn’t we bulldoze these Universities & Engineering / Medical colleges … instead of Madaris ??

    You just show your hatred against madaris & ulema like many, in your comments. But you need to correct your research.

    May Allah guide us all.


  17. ShahidnUSA (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 3:28 pm

    LOL!! Balma is in trouble LOL!!


  18. Naeem (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 3:42 pm

    @Balma :
    If you bulldoze madaris who are catering to thousands of poorest of the poor children. Do you think your government will feed them or in turn they will become groups of thugs and criminals. Hassan Zuberi has given you a hard time and i believe you have no answer to his list. Great Hassan


  19. AH (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 4:06 pm

    Hasan: That is an excellent point. All these guys were educated in universities and colleges. However, they were radicalized by the madrassas. The other issue is not with those that caused the terror overseas but with those that cause terror domestically, such as those in Lal Masjid.

    The thing is that, if managed properly, the madrassas are a very valuable resource and could provide a great service for all. However, for that to happen they need to be reformed.


  20. d0ct0r (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 4:35 pm

    10) Omar Saeed Sheikh (Accused of killing Danial Pearl) Studied at London School of Economics..


  21. Hasan Zuberi (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 6:41 pm

    @Naeem:
    Thanks brother. I mean no answer from Balma (or like-monded ppl), but yes the record needs to be corrected.

    @ AH:
    Sir the question is how many Madaris have u personally visited & seen radicalisation there?

    I took admission in a Madarsa after my MBA degree, left it due to the strict routine (classes used to start at 7:30 sharp).

    Madaris are doing an excellent job, yes corruption is everywhere … and same with Madaris … even in military. (read Military Inc.)

    This all Abba-baita-bhai lineage of Madarsa/mosque ownership … or should I say family business … have nothing to do with religon.

    @ DOCTOR:
    Thanks for the addition.


  22. AH (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 6:47 pm

    Hasan: Since I studied at multiple madrassas, I have some knowledge of what I’m talking about. I was pulled out of the first madrassa when my parents found out what I was being taught, sent to another one and the same thing happened there. Then I studied the Koran at my local mosque, which wasn’t a madrassa but a classroom led by the local imam for about 2-3 hrs. a day.

    Of course, just because I left the earlier two schools, that did not mean that I did not stay in touch with the students and learned from them what they were being taught.

    What has been your experience in this field?


  23. Ahmed (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 7:07 pm

    Buldozing should not be the first response. It is possible to have a joint administration to that better manages what is being taught. I dont know how this can be done. The word buldozing comes off as a clear threat to existance, how about “reorganize” or “ressurect” or something that has to do with bringing a better meaning to the word and improving the image.

    I dont even know if this all makes sense!!! Just brain storming.


  24. Salman A. (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 7:33 pm

    @Hasan Zuberi:
    thanks for the above info. i only knew of Zahwari that he was an eye surgeon.


  25. Salman A. (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 7:35 pm

    @balma, we are waiting for your answer. please show up :)


  26. AH (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 7:40 pm

    Of course, if I had read Hasan’s post completely, I would have seen that he answered my question already. Sorry about that.


  27. pkhan (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 7:52 pm

    Madrassah or Regular school, they all are doing a very good service to the masses but in some madrassah’s they are not only teaching islamic studies but injecting the innocent ( 5/6years)old minds about the Jehad, telling them that all other religions are Kafir and they should not exist in this world is WRONG. thats the big difference in RADICAL Madrassah’s and regular Madrassah’s.


  28. Balma (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 8:33 pm

    Folks,
    When did I ask to bulldoze the so-called madrassas?
    Toom loge charyae ho gayae ho kyaa?

    All I meant was that madrassas are not something that gets you savaab…madrassa students are not going straight to janat…. being hafiz does not let your grandparents to janat..all BS…it is no better than regular schools…actually, they are worse than regular schools (madrassa in Urdu and Arabic).

    Also, if you and I will not send our relatives to madrassas, then why should my darzi and qasaai send his kids to madrassaa. What is good for me to compete in modern world should be available for kids currently going to so called madrassas as well.

    Also, Osama did not graduate in civil engg from US. I think he went to school in Egypt or Lebanon, and probably did not study engineering.

    Vaisay, her buraai may bhee kucch achhai hotee hae: Most so-called madrassaa students learn to speak good Urdu, and in fact they are keeping Urdu alive in India. Varnah, Pakistan kay burgers nay toe Urdu kaa hashar kar diyaa hae.
    Down with Burgers!

    Also, we have to remember the history of Madrassa in modern Indian history (Burgers! Indian included Pakistan till 1947).
    After the war of 1857, the future founder of Devband (or Deoband) Madrassa in India was exiled to Mecca. I believe the only reason he was allowed to be back in India is that he must have made a deal with English. That deal probably allowed him to start Madrassa at Deoband without having to do anything with main stream India. Thus the break between regular and religious oriented madrassas started in India after 1857. Of course, creation of Pakistan was a disaster in terms of social and cultural open mindedness among Muslims of Pakistan and India. Pakistanis in general became more fanatic about religion and every corner in KArachi has a madrassa now.

    Again, I guess so called madrassas should be convereted into regular schools with religeous affiliation..such as St. Paul and St. Joesph.
    Burgeron! yeh St. Paul is like Madrassa Fareedya and St. Joesph is like Madrassaa Hafsa, except they teach lot more besides religion.

    I happened to visit Dar -ul-uloom in Korangi few months ago, and it is a pretty impressive campus…burgers should take break from eating baasi burgers at ass-fattening McDonalds and visit Korangi….and it is just the general outlook and general maahole at Dar-ul-uloom which screws up their students’ mentality…that since they are studing in madrassaa they are more Islamic than others and therefore they are right and rest are not…that mentality is the problem. And the biggest problem is that these madreasaas don’t tach any skill that their graudate can get any real employment. No progessional skills….so they become darzi or perchoon dukaan valla again…and the cycle continues….
    There are always exceptions, so no need to jump on me by taking anything out of context…


  29. Ahmed (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 8:53 pm

    Yep its all about the Burgers v/s you Bun-Kababs right?!

    I like your point about converting madressas into regular schools with religious affiliation. Sounds like a better idea than what i’ve heard so far.


  30. ShahidnUSA (unregistered) on July 11th, 2007 @ 9:36 pm

    @Ahmed
    @Balma
    I would like that idea too and coeducate them.
    As long as they dont teach or let (discipline)them the western craziness for eg. disobedience of elders and romance.
    :) On a lighter note, glad to see Balma is back :)


  31. JayJay (unregistered) on July 12th, 2007 @ 6:20 pm

    I have no choice but to agree with fellow commentators, given their passionate advocacy, that madrassas are the best thing happened to Pakistan. I am convinced that if anything we have a shortage of madrassas and, therefore, highly sought schooling places in them that millions have been missing out from the basic right to madrassa education. The social and moral ills plaguing our society are easily attributable to the lack of madrassa education for us.

    We need a lot more of them in the country to make us self-sufficient in this critical institution. Our moral well being, our economic and technological progress all hang on the pervasiveness of madrassa in our otherwise morally corrupt and violent society.
    In fact, we need to make it compulsory for any housing development to have a plot, preferably the largest one, dedicated to a madrassa (on the lines of Jamia Binoria) in every street. Rather, there should be two to each street – at opposing ends, of course, to pre-empt any perceived, potential or actual danger to Islam which co-ed can cause so devastatingly – one for boys (modelled on Jamia Fareedia) and one for girls (obviously modelled on what else but Jamia Hafsa. Even if on the way we have to sacrifice the space for play grounds, parks or even hospitals, it will be worthwhile building up a madrassa at each and every unoccupied, legal or illegal, space one could lay his hand to.

    With madrassas so in demand, at least at this forum, where every single person is singing untiring praises to this institution, I am sure even two to a street won’t be sufficient to accommodate daughters and sons of the participants. Without a doubt each one of these righteous men and women is sharing their views and intelligence on the basis their formative and higher education in all inspiring atmosphere of madrassas. With such a steep demand, soon there will be people clamouring for advance registrations to ensure spots for their off-springs, queues snaking out to the streets, sifarish, bribes and all other under the table and below the belt tactics.

    Across the board madrassa education will ensure equality in ignorance and intolerance, oops knowledge and rationality, and importantly, a consistent and conforming outlook for students of this thriving nation. One attire; One appearance – no matter how horrible it seems to an untrained eye, it is the best and distinctive look for all Muslims, bearded and burka-ed. However, this is the equality, an unprecedented one, we will achieve across all strata of the society.

    Our vicious critics will claim that madrassa schooling system can harm our competency in the modern fields of science, technology and economy; but in actuality any such set back will be momentary. After all we will be soon ruling the world, and will bring it (down, sorry, I mean up) to our levels of development. This rule over the world will be brought about by our collective power of rage and hatred madrassa education is so good in inculcating. Even if we failed in achieving world dominance; it is still a success in the eyes of our all knowledgeable Allah. After all, our lasting and real success awaits us in the life hereafter – 72 virgins for pious men and don’t know what Allah has in store for our righteous madrassa graduate law-abiding world conquering sisters-in-faith. Now that we all believe in the transience of this world, we need to aspire to cut this temporary stay to the briefest to claim the rewards which have been promised by the mightiest of all.


  32. mansoor (unregistered) on July 12th, 2007 @ 11:04 pm

    First of all big shame to all those who think that lal masjid people were extremists. This is a big conspiracy against muslims to stop sending their young ones to madrasas.

    General Pervaiz Musharraf has a face of evil, and spirit of a devil, he has been assigned the project to kill and eliminate all the innocent and prominent islamic personalities from Pakistan. This s-o-b is wiping out everyone who challenges his power. He thinks he is God, but this by-product of west will soon reach to his own end, when the west finally pulls off the oxygen mask of him.

    Shame on 17 million of Pakistanis who silently watched the lal masjid drama out of fear of their own lifes and didnt do anything . The operation silence must have been named because everyone was so silenttttttt.

    Shame on Pakistani Army too that they are killing fellow Pakistanis who are actually Muslim brothers and sisters in such disgusting manner. Those inside mosque were as much threatened and obviously as a defensive measure had to stop those drunkard army elephants against the mosque demolition.

    All those so-called liberals who taking side of Government will one day be asked by Allah that why they became such silent spectators to this crime to humanity.

    Musharraf- s-o-b including all his agents should be tried in international court of justice for such mass genocide of thousand of civilians.

    Lal masjid was destroyed by bullets on America’s orders and Musharraf their pet dog carried operation out whole operation with such massive force that bodies were left-out beyond identification.

    What was the crime of lal masjid people, why Government was so impatient to destroy the mosque.

    The biggest extremists are Musharraf and 17 million of population of so-called Islamic republic of Pakistan. Watch out guys curse of Allah is coming, first it was earth quake then it was flood and who knows whats next….


  33. JayJay (unregistered) on July 14th, 2007 @ 7:27 am

    http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20077\14\story_14-7-2007_pg3_1

    It is unfortunate that many Pakistanis, however well meaning, still think that unless a madrassa declares its defiance of the state and mobilises its acolytes as vigilante groups, it is actually making a positive contribution to the task of educating the poor population of Pakistan. The argument is that since the state is unable or unwilling to provide for the poor, the madrassas fill this void and thereby perform a useful educational function.

    Yet it is clear to all that a madrassa is not the place where our children can be made ready for the job market. We also recognise the truth, albeit unwillingly, that the proliferation of the mosque in Pakistan has taken place because the madrassa graduate, rejected by the job market, has to build or acquire his own mosque to become a breadwinner. So crucial is the mosque as an adjunct of the madrassa that many “empowered” madrassas of the Deobandi variety have been seizing the Barelvi mosques to “settle” their new graduates. In Karachi, there is a major Deobandi-Barelvi battle over mosques thus grabbed.

    The fact is that few scholars have examined the psychology of the madrassa acolyte. Most people simply scrutinise the dars-e-nizami syllabus taught there and find it harmless, even though it is unrelated to the contemporary environment. But one reliable study done by Pakistani scholar Dr Tariq Rehman has revealed that madrassa students have more hardline views on such subjects as non-Muslims and women in Pakistan than Urdu and English medium schools geared to the job market. The extremism of the sermons issued from the mosque on a daily basis reflects the worldview imbibed in the “regular” madrassas.

    Pakistan’s moderate scholar of Islam, Mr Javed Ahmad Ghamidi, a member of the Council of Islamic Ideology, says that the induction of the madrassa clergy and students into the Afghan war in the 1980s and the 1990s has empowered them to a point where they can set their own agendas and challenge the state. In an interview with Business Plus TV channel, the girl students of Jamia Hafsa clearly echoed the clerical view of the doctrine of amr (encourage the good) and nahi (oppose the bad) as grounds for vigilante action “because the state doesn’t end activities banned in Islam”. They also said that the Quranic verse la ikrah fi din (no coercion in religion) meant freedom is allowed before Islam is embraced but not afterwards.

    The clerical consensus on Lal Masjid was based on a rejection of the state-within-the-state created by the Rashid-Aziz duo, not the “banned activities” that the two were attacking. The tendency to prejudge “activities” without first challenging them at the Federal Shariat Court points to the tendency of the clergy of the “good” madrassas under Wafaqul Madaris Arabiya to forgive the pious trespasses of their acolytes. Vigilante action is rampant in the country. Any incident of pages of the Quran found lying on the ground immediately leads to the burning of public property, something that never happened before the clergy was hugely empowered through jihad.


  34. Hasan Zuberi (unregistered) on July 16th, 2007 @ 1:46 pm

    @ BALMA:

    I meant no offence on you or anyone … but yes it hurts when people keep on BS about the Clergy & Ulema … I agree many so-called (political) ulema have dis-reputed the institution … but why only abuse whole clergy or Madarsa ?

    Army, Judiciary, Bureaucracy all are in the same state … infact the whole nation is deep divided.

    Thanks for your good reply … I hope you can make many understand compared to me … after all if i talk, i will be labelled as FundaMensanist.

    @ JAYJAY:

    Sir, your comments are not worth commenting … but would love to check your opinion on some points you raised:

    1) Madarsa competency in the modern fields of science, technology and economy

    – It is just your sheer lack of knowledge. All Madarsa students graduate in a respective field JUST like a University student … they compete with schools, colleges & universities to complete their respective degrees (something started from ’80s) – You quoted jamia Faridia Islamabad … if you can check with respective board, their students are the position holders in Matric & Intermediate exams from last 2-3 years.

    Students of Dar-Ul-Uloom, Banori Town, Jamia Rashidia, Banoria SITE, Jamia Ashrafia LHR, Jamia Naimia LHR, Ashraf-ul-Madaris and many more have departments in Economics, Management, Business & Trade, Law, Astronomy and Agriculture.

    Jamia Rashidia runs an MBA program affilliated with IBA Karachi (Pakistan’s top business school)

    Farooque-e-Azam Trust (North Nazimabad) is running a computer institute from last 9 years.

    Also to improve your knowledge … Mufti Shamzai Shaheed was PhD in Agriculture from Agriculture University Faisalabad (Pakistan’s top).

    Mufti Taqi Usmani, everyone knows him, is a retd. Federal Judge and Islamic banking advisor to nearly ALL the banks (local & MNC).

    Mufti Rasheed Ahmed (Marhoom) was an authority on Astrology through his research which is still used by Metrology department & Pakistan Navy.

    2) Pakistan’s moderate scholar of Islam, Mr Javed Ahmad Ghamidi, a member of the Council of Islamic Ideology, says that the induction of the madrassa clergy and students into the Afghan war in the 1980s and the 1990s has empowered them to a point where they can set their own agendas and challenge the state.

    – LOL Javed Ghamdi is a MODERATE not a scholar … He is a man who has issued his Fatwa in favour of Women-led prayers, Music and against beard, Sunnah in prayers & offcourse ahadiths (refer to his website).

    3) In an interview with … the girl students of Jamia Hafsa …. said that the Quranic verse la ikrah fi din (no coercion in religion) meant freedom is allowed before Islam is embraced but not afterwards.

    – The MEANT is by you not by them … its what you traslated according to your limited-thinking.

    The english translation you used have the word Coercion … not necessarily meant the Arabic word in the said verse …. OK even if we take it the definition of Coercion is:

    “Coercion is the practice of compelling a person to involuntarily behave in a certain way (whether through action or inaction) by use of threats, intimidation or some other form of pressure or force.”

    So, what is worng with the statement …

    Indeed; .. there is no coercion in religion

    …. May Allah guide & help us all


  35. LABEK YA RASOOL ALLAH (unregistered) on July 16th, 2007 @ 4:51 pm

    Javed Ahmad Ghamidi is simply a RASCAL he is the biggest BASTERED on earth, go to hell you FUCKING GHAMDI, so of a bitch,from the family of pigs.


  36. Balma (unregistered) on July 16th, 2007 @ 9:28 pm

    A simple question:

    While every Karachiite is dying to send their kids to Christian madrassas in Karachi, such as St. Patricks, St. Joesph, Karachi Grammer School how many will send their kids to Muslim versions of such madrassas?

    The answer is none, except yateem and miskeen who can’t afford anything else. ACtually, St. Joseph and St. Patrick also admit some Christian yateem and miskeens…but anyway.

    Muslims have insulted themselves by allowing every Tom, Dick, and Harry (i.e. every aira khaira nathoo khairaa) to open a one room school and call it something jamia. They have allowed the word Jamia (University) to be abused. A while ago, when you heard the word Jamia, you thougt of Jamia Karachi (KArachi Unviersity) or Jamia Panjab (Panjab Univeristy) or the Jamia Osmania (Osmania University). Now when you hear the word Jamia, at least I think of unkempt beards, big tummies, lambaa kurtaas till ankle bones, and high shalvaar till all the way to knees. All the religious schools using the word Jamia in their name with their campus size equal to one 80 yards plot should be ‘forced’ to remove the word Jamia from their name. Just like fake Preston, Greenwich (burgers’ favorite), Ziabetas (that university named after Budnazir’s Dad) should be forced to remove the word University from their names. What kind of universities are being run in one house, no campus, no multiple faculties, no standards, and no nothing?
    Whole education system in PK is effd up, whether it is religion affiliated or not.



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